It is kind of strange that there is so little clarity about what Robert Mueller is supposed to do with the evidence he’s accumulated once he’s concluded his investigation.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
Well, whatever he does, it will be by the book. That’s how he’s played it all along; no leaks, no previews. And the Republicans can’t be whining about his political party: he’s a staunch Republican.
I admire him for his careful, rigid, measured collection of information. Like most Dems, I am anxiously awaiting his announcement after assessing all the mountains of evidence. I just hope it’s all-encompassing and ironclad.
And it comes soon!
The way the FIFA investigation was done and the dramatic arrests give me hope:
https:/www.google.com/amp/s/allaboutangles.com/2017/11/06/why-fbi-investigation-fifa-corruption-rmu
eller-trump-russia/amp
Maybe, but I think it’s a strength, not a bug. Keeps ’em guessing. Drives Giuliani to ever higher levels of dementia.
I think he’s going to indict the president.
ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease
and that goes for the whole family
I’m jonesing for someone to make a run for Moscow.
Honestly, these are exactly the kinds of qualities I want in anyone who is at a significant level of responsibility for the continuance of our democracy. Whether it be a President, Attorney General, Secretary of State, or a Special Counsel; I want someone who has an appreciation and a respect for the historical context of decisions. And one who also is not afraid to take a step beyond the norm, when it is recognized that current extraordinary conditions merit a larger consideration of the spirit of our small “d” democracy. I think Mueller has that sort of perspective. Maybe I am naive, and just hoping this is all the case. But right now, my personal sense and intuition is that he understands all of the nuance and complexity he is dealing with. Certainly, we will all eventually see what lens he is using to view all of this absurdity and constitutional rat-fucking which is going on in the Trump administration. By all appearances, he is as straight an arrow as there is, and whatever decisions he makes or actions he takes will all have a substantial level of documentation and arguments to support them. This is what gives me hope.
On the other hand, Trump, and everyone surrounding him, representing him, and acting as spokespeople in the larger scheme of things, are all nothing more than grifters, charlatans, and carnival barkers in Trump’s ongoing reality television Presidency and performance. For all of them, it’s only about the “ratings”. For some, ratings mean cash. For others, it means future connections for grift in the right wing media. For others, it’s about nothing more than the narcisstic ability to be some sort of media persona, in the short term. When it’s all said and done, every single on of the SOB’s will simply pull all their chips off the table and head over to the cashiers window to total up their winnings. And they will go their separate ways, in search of the next grift. It is all just one big con.
I assume he will indict everyone he can indict, and he will prepare a report for Congress. Included in that report will be a set of indictments of Trump to be filed when he leaves office.
That’s exactly what my expectation is too. Kushner, Dumbass, Jr., Sessions and others all should face multiple indictments, forcing Trump to pardon them further adding to obstruction of justice. He will also face multiple indictments for conspiracy and obstruction of justice.
However, my understanding is that a sitting president is able to be charged with the crime of using the pardon power to protect himself when he committed a crime. This is what would be the case if he pardoned Manafort, Cohen and anyone else connected to the Russian investigation or any conspiracy that he might have been involved in (i.e. the Cohen affair).
Also, he cannot pardon himself.
Yeah, the evidence he’s laying out shows a process towards indicting and charging the president, whether he’s sitting or not. I don’t know if he’ll even take his “report” to Congress or if there will even be a report combined with impeachment. There’s way more detail than necessary in many of his indictments, particularly with respect to the foreign nationals/Russians who were charged.
I think he’ll charge him while he’s in office. The trial(s) might take place once he’s out of office, but I do not think the generally thought of “rule” you can’t indict a sitting president will hold.
Since Mueller has always done everything by the book, I expect he will know exactly how to handle a bunch of clowns that don’t do anything by the book.
I’m suffering a lack of clarity regarding how much of what Mueller concludes will require the consent of Congress to make it actionable.
My initial cynicism towards Mueller and his investigative group has somewhat waned. It appears to me now that he is trying to end the Trump presidency without toppling the entire edifice of the state.
This a noble idea, even though that edifice is rotted through with corruption and avarice.
Will he succeed?
Time will tell.
AG
If Trump had the ability to step out of himself for a moment, or any sense at all, he’d realize he couldn’t do any better than having Mueller as the special counsel because, innocent or guilty, he’s going to be fair and professional. This is why those republicans who insist on letting the investigation run its course do so, because they assume Trump is innocent, or at least that there is no evidence that he is guilty, and trust Mueller won’t pull a Ken Starr hit job on him.
Trump’s problem is he knows he is guilty, that there is evidence of his guilt, and that Mueller is the worst prosecutor he could face being guilty, because he’s detail oriented, will leave no stone un-turned, and has a record of non-partisanship. He’s not going to spare Trump just because he’s a republican.
That said, the question is, what CAN Mueller do with the evidence once its accumulated?
We know he can refer it all in a report to Congress, but once he does its out of his hands what they do with it.
What if, after such a referral containing evidence of guilt, Congress is, God forbid, still in the tiny hands of the GOP and as a body continues to act as partisans, or, if the democrats take control and decide to “look forward, not back,” and does nothing. Can Mueller indict Trump? I’ve heard that the legal concept of “fruit of the poison tree” is in effect here, since Trump gained the office via illegal means, i.e. committing felony campaign violations to suppress information that voters may have considered in their voting choices in the election, it is arguable whether he gets the benefit of being shielded from indictment as president. At that point, is he indicted and charged as president, or does that have to wait until he leaves office?
There doesn’t appear to be only one way this could play out from a legal perspective, so it doesn’t seem strange at this point at least, that there is no clear vision as to how this plays out. Variables in all this includes, if Trump attempts to fire Mueller, Rosenstein or Sessions; if he pardons Manafort or Cohen; if some of the separate but related investigations into Cohen, Manafort (his upcoming trial) the Trump Organization or Foundation gains pleas or convictions from major players close to Trump. Any of these adds dimensions and changes the game.
My worst nightmare: Mueller completes his report, follows the tradition and leaves it to congress, knowing they do nothing and then says let the voters, knowing the evidence I’ve presented, render justice by voting him out in 2020.
What I’d be happy with: Mueller offers Trump a deal: resign now and I will not prosecute your kids and work deals with other investigations to leave them alone.
Best of all: fruit of the poison tree in effect, Trump is indicted, arrested, charged and convicted.
But given where we are, its little wonder there is no clear path to where this goes, at this point.
I agree with most of what you wrote. There are too many variables to predict how the end game plays out. I can’t imagine any that are not very messy. The only things I am certain about are 1) Trump is guilty of it all, and b) Mueller has the evidence to convict him.
No way should Mueller let him walk in exchange for a resignation. He is too dangerous to the democracy.He has too much money and too many friendly media outlets. He will not go quietly if forced to resign. Within weeks he would be dominating the airwaves again.
He has to be utterly disgraced. Ousted (by the ballot at worst), indicted, tried, convicted and jailed.
“No way should Mueller let him walk in exchange for a resignation. He is too dangerous to the democracy.He has too much money and too many friendly media outlets. He will not go quietly if forced to resign. Within weeks he would be dominating the airwaves again.”
I agree with that, not only because letting him walk in exchange for his resignation leaves him free to do even more damage to our democracy, not to mention the national security implications around his dalliances with Putin, but also because Trump has done way too much to just walk away, with resignation his only “justice.”
But then we get back to my question: what can Mueller do? The law is not clear on whether a sitting president can be indicted. And what if he is? Is he arrested and booked? Does he post bail? Is a trial held while he is in office? And what if he is convicted, then what is the mechanism for removal from office. These are questions that are not really clear in law. Not to mention that it likely won’t be solely up to Mueller to determine what path towards justice is taken.
And this is what simultaneously puzzle and worry me. However the Trump situation plays out, will be unprecedented, both legally and politically. And because it will be “new” a lot of people are not go along with whatever is decided, especially if the solution is more legal, e.g. indictment, trial, conviction, rather than political, e.g. impeachment.
So the issue is, not what we would like to see happen, but what is possible.
The law is not clear, but it is not practical. I don’t think Mueller wants to rock that boat anyway. Until he is removed from office there cannot be a trial or series of trials. If we ignore the idea of Trump testing the limits of his pardon powers – the biggest wildcard, IMO – I think it goes like this:
. . . also fruit of that poisoned tree.