The level of conversation in the media is rising regarding the Christian Right. One good example was a recent interview, on the nationally syndicated radio program, Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman, titled The Christian Right and the Rising Power of the Evangelical Political Movement. The program featured an interview with journalist Chris Hedges and Rev. Joseph Phelps, of Highland Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, who hosted a counter event to the Christian Right’s rally for religious bigotry, Justice Sunday.
Here is some of what was said:
Phelps: “…it’s obvious that they’re trying to get out a very clear message. And the message, it seems to me, is a message of domination. Of trying to conflate the Bible and the Constitution and create a whole new entity, which many of us fear would be a form of religious right theocracy.”
Hedges: “Christian America… this is an America where people like you and me have no place. And you don’t have to take my word for it, turn on Christian broadcasting, listen to Christian radio. Listen to what they say about people like us. It’s not a matter that we have an opinion they disagree with. It’s not a matter of them de-legitimizing us, which they are. It’s a matter of them demonizing us, of talking us — describing us as militant secular humanists, moral relativists, both of which terms I would not use to describe myself, as a kind of counter-militant ideology that is anti-Christian and that essentially propelled by Satan that they must destroy.”
Phelps: “Well, in their system, women — they will talk a game about women having, you know, an equal role, but it’s a silent role. It’s a silent role. They can’t speak in Church. They can’t teach any children over then about the age of 10. So, that’s part of the problem here is they’re unwilling to talk. They’re unwilling to talk with their own women. They’re unwilling to talk with the fellow Baptists like me, like you. I have tried to enter into dialogue for years with Dr. [Albert] Mohler, [President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary] with others in our city. They’re not interested in dialogue, because, in their construct, they have the answer.”
Phelps raises an important point. There is much talk about the need for dialog. And dialog can be a good thing. But what about those who are not interested in dialog? What about those who are interested in power and domination? It is certainly important to dialog with those whom we can — but we must also to rise to the occasion and counter the drive for power by the theocratic Christian Right which has been in high gear for about 15 years.
Thanks to Jesus Politics for calling attention to this program.
[Crossposted from FrederickClarkson.com.
In order to counter the threat of the theocratic Christian Right, we may have to do the hardest thing: change ourselves.
What we have been doing for the past 15 years since the Christian Coalition changed politics forever, hasn’t worked.
Thank you again for keeping us informed.
I agree with Joseph Phelps in many ways regarding the utter uselessness of dialogue with many of these people, although it distresses me to do so. I attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary for several years during the 80’s and received a Master of Divinity and pursued a doctorate in systematic theology before ultimately leaving the seminary as it was taken over by the fundamentalists within the Southern Baptist Convention. I chose to return to the practice of law, a field in which I consistently have found Grace more to abound than in the legalistic cosmogony of the fundamentalist movement.
Hedges’ recent article in Harper’s was excellent. I did a diary on one incident mentioned in the article, the late night “praying over” Senator Clinton’s desk during a private tour of the Capitol, which particularly inflamed me.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/5/9/19303/86325
I have been in contact with many other progressive Christians and some MSM outlets regarding this event, and would appreciate it if you can contribute to what I hope will be a public dialogue regarding this appalling event.
I continue in individual dialogue with some friends I made at SWBTS and others in the fundamentalist movement, but I see no real hope of any great possibility of changing any one’s mind except in isolated incidences. They believe God has revealed the truth to them, and that my opinions or criticisms of their world view are simply invalid and contrary to the revealed will of God.
You are very welcome. I haven’t read Hedges’ article yet, but I saw your diary and I agree that the praying over Clinton’s desk incident is repugnant. (I attended NRB conventions for a number of years, but have not been to one lately.)
I have thought for a long time that while there are those whose minds we cannot change, it is also important to maintain personal relationships with those who we can. It is much harder to demonize people you know. It gets more dangerous as people get separated from one another and the culture of mutual demonization escalates.
I think that it is, sadly, a waste of time trying to dialog with people who attribute any disagreement with their views to the devil. Not going anywhere with that. I’ve been working, in my own little corner of the world, with making the more extreme views of Dobson and his buds more well known. Most people seemed totally unaware of them, and were repulsed when they heard them. Whether that does any good in the long run remains to be seen.
I’m also gearing up to head down to the local U.U. meeting Sunday after next, on the idea that there is strength in numbers and the more people involved in the liberal religious groups, the better. Aside from that, and trying to force our way into the media, I am at a loss this morning. Sorry, it’s early for me, I work nights.
You’re right in that there is no use in trying to talk to certain people in the Falwell/Dobson mode-it only wastes our time and energy. Time better spent engaging people of ‘normal’ religious faiths and beliefs who really have no idea what the real agenda is of the unchristian right.
The biggest trick continues to be I believe as I’ve said before is take away the religious mantle and try and get people to see that this is a power grab’ destruction of our constitution and their continued revision of our founding history.
These people hide behind their so called religious mantle making it hard for some reason for regular people to even consider debating or disagreeing with them…somehow excusing their zeal so to speak because they say are ‘religious’….to me it’s a like a big con game being perpetrated by all these unchristian extremists.
Of course their biggest con is the oft repeated lie about how christians are being persecuted due to their deeply held beliefs and faith.
Liberals should be so persecuted as to dominate the airwaves/have not to pay taxes on property/have liberal buildings on practically every other street /have huge week long tv specials(like billy graham etc)…yeah I’ll go for some of that persecution alright.
These so called christians, support a President who is best friends with one of the most fundamental christian persecutors in the world. The Saudi Prince. Remembering Bush and the Prince holding hands reminicing down memory lane. If these christians had a clue about what it means to be persecuted for their beliefs, they might ask a Native American, who until the 1940’s were prohibited from practicing their spirituality by law, most passed by christians. Or ask a christian that survived post war USSR, or china currently. These so called christians live in their ivory towers, oblivious to the suffering of real christians and others of faith. I can only pray that when their time comes to stand before whatever God they say they believe in, that God looks at them knowingly and says, well you seem to have gotten to the wrong place, your actions dictate you need to go to that other place, you know the one you kept telling everyone else they were going too. See you, don’t want to be you. Bye.
It is time for us to become less preoccupied with the foibles of some of our national leaders, and spend alot more time figuring out how to become more effective as citizens, citizens with knowledge and skills in electoral politics.
Great diary. I’ve been speaking up at our church a lot more. We left one church (Southern Baptist) because it was too theocratic. We went to another (Episcopal) for a time and though I liked it, the wife and kids found it terribly dull. We’re now at a very small, rural Methodist church on the West Virginia-Virginia line. And I’m pushing the progressive Christian message. And I’m find more than a few agreeing with me.
O/T, I spoke to a co-worker the other day and I mentioned you and I described you as a friend. Though we’ve never met and only exchanged messages online and I think an email or two I consider you a friend. One who is watching out for me and others against the dark tide of the theocons.
Thanks, Carnacki. I think of you as a friend as well. I hope our paths will cross one day. In the meantime, its a pleasure meeting you out here in the wilds of cyberspace. And I’m glad that you have found a church that feels more like home. We will all find our strengths and our voices among people with whom we can find affinity and a sense of common cause.
Bob Edgar from the NCC’s words, (well, someone else’s words, I can’t remember whose, but he quoted them so well,) have stayed with me since the conference on the theocratic Christian Right in NYC a few weeks ago. He said “we are the prophets, the apostles and the leaders we have been waiting for.”
We need to be strong, wise, and stick together in this difficult time.
In that spirit, be sure to come visit pastordan, Bruce Prescott, and me, among others, over at http://www.talk2action.org
We will have a kos/booman style scoop site up pretty soon. We are going to reinvent the way that this subject gets talked about, and how we can begin to talk about action in a more coherent fashion.