Feminist, forty, somewhat foucauldian.
While we’re bringing in theorists to discuss gender, I’ll toss Foucault into the mix. He says, basically, that physical oppression is easy to resist, but disciplinary power — which for simplicity’s sake I will define here as “how we do business around here” — offers a difficult tension. To be a successful poster in an online forum, we must learn the rules of that particular game. We become more docile in the shadow of such rules, even as they provide us more legitimacy.
Very few rules in a forum like DKos or Booman Tribune are explicit; most are tacit. The “better” you are at following the mosaic of disciplinary rules, the more power in the forum you will have. This brings into question whether those who get the most recommends or are chosen to be front pagers are indeed the “best” writers, by any literary measure. They seem to be rather articulate, but they also handle the right topics in the right ways.
The right topics are gendered.
The right ways to handle such topics are gendered.
Several examples of tacit rules for addressing topics come to mind:
- when you are discussing women’s issues, be careful not to whine.
- there can never be enough posts about men’s emasculation at Abu Ghraib, but there simply isn’t enough interest in women’s degradation around the world on a daily basis to warrant more than a few posts every now and then. When there is a “run” on posts about the right to make private medical decisions, it is an extraordinary event.
- using humor will get you lots of recommends, but it has to be a certain kind of humor. (Masculine) humor with a tinge of sarcasm, even a small threat of violence, works quite well. The “sharper” your wit, the better. One exception that proves the rule is “Cheers & Jeers” which typically is more positively oriented, and thus might not be carried off by a woman. As it is, it is dismissed by many as a “mojo rave.”
Booman Tribune can have an entirely different set of rules, although since it is situated in the world in which it was born, I doubt it will be so different unless we exhaust ourselves de- and reconstructing. I think, though, that at least according others respect for their existence is a good start.
Anyway, good to be here!
I don’t see how a “fuck kos” posting is advancing anything in discussions here.
Note the title of the diary one more time, please?
Words matter. Nowhere in this diary will you find the words “fuck kos”.
Intent is pretty obvious.
Could we all just keep that fight on kos where it belongs? This is supposed to be a safe harbor after all.
gee — I just got told that on the FRONT PAGE diary by Armando, by the author himself.
I am so sick of being told that, I cannot begin to tell you how sick I am of that….
Since this is a diary about words, here are some synonyms for OBVIOUS:
apparent, accessible, barefaced, bright, clear, conclusive, conspicuous, discernible, distinct, distinguishable, evident, explicit, exposed, glaring, in evidence, indisputable, lucid, manifest, noticeable, observable, open, outstanding, overt, palpable, patent, perceivable, perceptible, plain, precise, prominent, pronounced, public, recognizable, self-evident, self-explanatory, straightforward, transparent, unconcealed, undeniable, understandable, undisguised, unmistakable, unsubtle, visible
Can you see how “obvious” might not be the word you are looking for here?
It is a none so subtle (or “unsubtle”) jab at kos, so the word choice is accurate.
This is not dailykos, and your rage is misplaced here.
“Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering.” – Yoda
what do you know about it?? And if pointing out, in a diary that is entitled “Words Matter” that, well, words matter is raging to you, I’m soooo sorry, but you don’t have a clue.
You have a problem with the diary? talk with the diarist. I have a problem with your condescension, so I am talking to you …
if you are the BoomanTrib police and want to keep “your” blog pure, by all means, jump all over me and completely ignore the ragefest going on on the front page.
I didn’t bring this shit over here, I just brought myself. If I am not welcome, please just say the WORDS —
Hi — another newbie, here.
I have to agree with Brinnaine about this thread.
First, the statement about Foucault was building on threads that went on last night around 2 am that discussed, in a good-natured way, lit and political theories that could be used to analyze the misogynist posts over at Kos in the Pie Fight.
Second, I took the author to be analyzing the norms for posting at Kos, not here (thus the writer expressed hope that Booman could go in new directions).
Maybe words matter SO MUCH that the fact that the analysis OF KOS (only) was not stated explicitly led to harsh criticism [to me it sounded harsh, IMHO].
I too am here to have a space of community, certainly not the kind of “discussions” (food fights?) at Kos, or the kind unfolding on main page right now.
In stepping back from this, I can’t actually understand why I am trying to engage in discussion with a person whose screen name is “yeah whatever” anyway! I can be so stupid sometimes! š
Please step back. And please reread your comments to me.
And realize why I don’t think you deserve any more respect than you have shown me in those postings.
don’t want/need your respect.
Not sure if you’ve had a chance, but brinnaine issued an apology to you here. Just thought I would share in case you haven’t seen it. Peace, Man Eegee
Thanks, ME, for the attempt!!! Much appreciated!
I wish you had spent a bit of time her before making some of your statements such as this one.
WE are not DK and we do not want others to come in here and try to remake us in a new image of DK. We have been doing just fine, check out our hidden comments, oh if you can’t see them there are only 3 now and one new one was yesterday and one was a test with booman.
We have built a very respectful site that allows others the freedom to express themselves without fear of attack. We normally just let others speak their piece, tell them our views if we feel like it and then let it go.
I think you should take some time to live in this site before you plan on de constructing it. I think our oldsters will take great exception to any such activities and I know I will.
I would like to point out that we do not have gender issues on this site, so don’t start any. We are very respectful of others no matter gender, race or religion and aim to keep it that way.
If you haven’t already please visit out welcome wagon diaries and you will see what a great site we already have here. Thanks for joining by the way and welcome.
We have a great site admin. Booman, who is fair and listens to us when we have a problem. He has allowed us a part in developing this site and we are most grateful for that and for Susanhu as well.
I wish I had your patience and your way with words.
Booman and SusanHu (and you and everyone else here) have put a great deal of time and effort into the community here, and it shows.
I agree totally. Well said.
To me, this site seems to have great deal of biodiversity culturally, socially, gender-wise (if only I remembered the correct adverb!), with a whole range of skills and backgrounds, age groups, national groups etc etc. The only connecting factor, as I see it, is progressive thinking and a desire to be involved.
I hope it stays that way, because that’s what I come for – to have some common ground (the progressive part) but all the richness of views within that.
And hopefully there is some insight to be gained in any subject under the sun that anyone wishes to raise here.
I am not so terribly involved here in parochial US politics/issues in so far as they affect only the USA. (I live in Europe) But many US issues are not ‘insular’ – they affect us all. So I do take an interest (in those).
Where else can you spend an hour or so on a mental rollercoaster that takes you from oil economics to native american beliefs to gender issues to organizational concepts to life in the military to to – need I go on?
At the people level, everything is connected to everything else – this place is proof of that.
.
missed your insight today in some diaries. Two have [un]fortunately been pulled, one from soj the other from Armando.
True, we needed an additional index finger to button all the mojo for a great new group of talented people! WOW. Look at that site meter go.
Oui aka @dKos as creve coeur and new creve coeur
WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooTrib aka lost treasure of dKos
I was up till 4am reading comments on the site, trying to get a feel for the future tone. You do an amazing job with diplomacy, can we send you to the U.N. instead of John Bolton? š
Thanks for the heads up, but sometimes I wonder if I have said things diplomatically enough.
Hey this is a hard enough job on web sites so nooooooooway about the UN. I can just see Diane101 as ambassador to the UN. “How did you get your last name 101, to which I would reply well that’s my married name, my birth name was Diane000 just waiting to be changed to another and lucky for me he was Mr. 101.
Well if that didn’t come across as funny it’s because I am tired an worn out(from the last few days) and can barely type or spell.
That is an order! Your health is way more important; we need you around here. Besides there are others here who can help with the welcome wagon, like me for example. Take a deep breath, slooooowly remove your fingers from the keyboard and go enjoy some lemonade (or champagne). You deserve it.
I am hereby assigning you as co host of the tell us diaries and thank you so much for your offer. Thanks to Oui too for jumping in and helping.
Newbies may wonder why we care so much about our site and this is a perfect example of how we work together here.
Trying to keep my fingers off the keyboard, will go and rest now,(maybe).
Thank you for your response, Diane. I don’t know enough about BT yet to say it’s going in any particular direction. I was mostly analyzing from where I had come. So I don’t mean to sound like I’m coming into this forum with the intent to deconstruct it. Sorry I came across that way.
It may have to do with my raw suspicion that we can’t ever get along! Along with a whole pack of people, I’m a refugee from a place that seemed to play out a “natural” progression toward gender oppression. So, when you write:
I really wonder about that. I’ve never seen any community in my lifetime (besides my women’s studies program, and even then) overcome what I will call gender oppression. You have to understand that I think the very foundations of our economy, governments, and family lives are gendered. I think some of our institutions only exist because of gender oppression. They have to be radically changed, perhaps even destroyed and rebuilt, to erase their utter dependence on women’s subordination.
So, I am wary of statements that gender issues don’t exist in any community that has arisen from the larger social structures in which gender issues do exist. I hope it is true, and I will not be trying to create issues where they don’t exist. But hopefully you can understand where I’m coming from, intellectually, emotionally, and experientially.
for your reply. I know it’s hard to imagine, but on this site we have had no such problems. I am sure a lot of times we do not even know the gender. As I have commented on another thread this morning, when an issue came up, but once in the past where women objected to title of a diary, (female pejorative) it was changed within minutes with an apology. That was with Booman himself. So that how it goes here. We rally around each other and give support and kudos whenever we can. We came here mostly to get away from the thought police at DK, etc. and therefore when Booman offered to let us help direct the site we were more than happy to do so. All of us have had a say in the site direction, we have voted on things in the past and I’m sure we will do so in the future.
We tend to the spiritual side of things here and many diaries are put up in that regard.
We have most of us recovered form our DK days and are happy to find the peace over here.
I don’t know if the site will stay that way, but I can tell you us oldsters who have built this site along with Boo, will try with all our might to prevent that. You see this is not a one man show, booman lets us be a part of the whole evolving process. We learn from him, he learns from us. Many diaries on subject of 4’s, troll rating, how we wanted to deal with those issues, etc. were put up and discussed. We have been able to form many teams to work on projects both investigative and progressive. There has been no towel snap remarks here, at least not until these last few days when all newbies are very sensitive. Many of us oldsters have waded in to those situations to try to diffuse and that’s how we handle things here..
Very different to have a site built by members, rather than one person as big giant head.
When a site is built on group participation, and all have a say and ad mutual respect, then gender issues with each other do not come in to play, at least that seems to be the case here.
So tomato, just check us out for awhile and I think you will see for yourself.
BTW one of my first diaries here was “Join the Debate with a Neocon”, which caused a bit of a stir but all went well in the final result.
We even had a diary on proper breathing and quite often just have fun diaries so that we can let loose.
Yeah whatever and brianne, I would ask of you both to step back take a deep breathe and calmly ask yourselves is my issue really with this person or the fact that dkos has turned into something I don’t recognize any longer. My fervent hope is that all of us here, can get along, disagree with respect and dignity for each other and create solutions for problems that affect us all. Here is a plan that I have found works for me when life grows into something I can’t recognize. I welcome you both and hope this helps.
brinnaine, forgive me for mispelling your name. thank you very much
just brinn is fine!! š Having to remember how to spell it to log in is a penance of mine for an online game I once became absorbed in — same name, different spelling, it makes me think!