But I do know that I won’t go through the pain I experienced in 1972 and 1973, when those boys came home broken and damaged. I will not allow anyone the chance to call them baby killers, murderers and the like, not again. Yes they chose to serve, yes they were forced to go into a war that is illegal and immoral. I am sure there will be those who enjoy killing as in all wars, whether American soldiers or any other soldiers in the world. But to place the derisive term killer on every soldier, marine, airmen or sailor is wrong in my humble estimation.
Brenda was there, as were some others who post on this site, working on those broken men and boys, so was I and it profoundly changed me as a human being. Yes Brinn I am over the top and this is the reason why I have gone over the top. Until such time as you have seen a man physically mutilated from a war that was not of his choice to participate in and to watch him slowly die before your eyes, none of you will know the horrors these men have faced and will continue to face when they return.
I harbor no ill will to those who choose to demonize those who serve. I will not be a part of that demonizing, nor will I allow it to go without me saying something about it. Everyone of us has the right to express our views, yet when people use broad generalizations that indict a whole class of people that is wrong and I will have no part in it.
I was stationed at the old Balboa Naval Hospital for my corpsman training and so many of those men and boys came back destroyed as human beings. I knew then that I would fight against any government that would attempt to repeat that insanity in my lifetime. I watched in horror as men who could have had some kind of life, even without an arm, leg or eyesight, just give up and die because they gave up on wanting to live. Many returning vets were called horrendous names, that little to do with the reality of who they were as human beings.
I was discharged from the US Navy because I was unable to cope with the death and destruction that surrounded me every day, so I found solace in drugs and it brought me many years of grief. I was discharged not only for possession of illegal substances, I struck an officer in a fit of rage because he was chastising a young marine who was sobbing uncontrollably because he would never run again, climb his favorite mountain or be able to have children. I struck that officer so hard in the face that I broke four of his teeth and his jaw in three places. I would do it again for what he did to that Marine.
So if I am over the top then so be it. I have no idea what I will be do with these memories. I thought I had dealt with them and they would no longer haunt me. Yet here they are again. Here comes the rushing in of horrors so incomprehensible to most of you that I would never wish anything like this upon any one of you.
I know there are several members who suffer from PTSD, my own started many years before I was a corpsman, yet it was exacerbated by what I experienced in working with so many of these wounded men.
I lost several family members during that war, three of my cousins were wounded there and my step brother god bless him was a Marine’s Marine, he was wounded three times in three different tours. We all have shared together what happened to each of us. Even though I was the only one who did not serve in country. They knew and understood that too was a part of the horrors of war.
I have set up my prayer wheel, my sweat lodge and will do what I need to do to cleanse myself of this insidious monster that has resurfaced within me. I will love my children and my wife, I will seek to feed the good wolf for the joys that my family brings into me as a man and human being.
For whatever reason those of you who choose to demonize those that serve, I wish you peace and I hope that you never will have to experience the horrors these men and women have had to experience.
Wado
the point where you called me out by name. WHY did you do that?
I have tired to be understanding, I have stayed out of it mostly and I posted a comment to you to try to further understand when you posted your “see you later” comment in catnip’s diary — I will attempt to go back and read the rest of this, but i DO NOT APPRECIATE (and yes, I AM yelling!!) being responded to in this way — I didn’t DO anything to you except try to understand what is going on with you.
Would you please do me the favor of responding the uestion of WHY here after THIS comment and not in another diary?
brinnanne: While I am being supportive of Ghostdancers way, understand that I must be missing part of the rift from Saturday. I did not read all the comments. If you and the ghostdancer are at odds here, I am not taking sides, or pointing any fingers. As I think you know, I have read many of your comments over the past couple of months, and often appreciate your point of view. I truly hope you understand, and do not take offense. Let’s all just take some deep breaths!
Oh, really?? So, I have now lost the ability to know anything about the issue at all becuase I have never watched someone be tortured or killed someone myself, or stuck my bloody hands inside a person’s chest to try to massage the heart back to life???
I’m sorry, but you should have gone when you said you were going to go and taken some time to CHILL THE FUCK OUT, because now, you ARE being a prick.
Brinn, he was just responding to the fact that you said his reactions were over the top and then he went on to explain why they may seem over the top. He didn’t accuse you of anything.
I have PTSD and what I see in ghostdancer’s words are the effects of being triggered by the dicussion here:
A trigger can send a person who suffers from this disorder into the extreme areas of emotional being, such as intense anger, exaggerated sadness, crippling numbness, flashbacks, nightmares, and other areas not mentioned here. A trigger then may be described as a situation, a noise, a smell, a thought, or anything else that puts a PTSD sufferer off into a “dark-area” or sets that person off by reminding them of the original trauma or situation they experienced. Symptoms caused by a trigger can differ from person to person.
I have suffered triggers from seeing a certain colour car, a hostage situation on a TV show, a certain smell, even the mention of someone’s name. Chronic PTSD is a lifelong problem and triggers can happen at any time in any place. You can learn your triggers but there is absolutely no way to avoid them all and avoidance only adds to the dysfunction PTSD already brings into one’s life. But – this is important to understanding ghostdancer’s situation here – if a trigger has caused a severe emotional response, it is not wise to expose oneself to that trigger over and over as a form of self-therapy. The actual causes of the PTSD must be addressed in order to minimize the effects of the triggers and that is a long and complex process.
I post this assuming that I may know more about PTSD and its effects than you do. I don’t know that, but perhaps it will help others understand what has happened here as well. That is my hope.
Good grief- one of my triggers is the sound of school bus brakes.PTSD is a strange animal indeed.
Being triggered takes one to a very different reality temporarily. It’s hard to describe but it’s almost like an out-of-body, deja vu re-experiencing of a past event. It’s quite rattling, isn’t it?
It is indeed- puts you in a place you wish you had forgotten.
Well, that is your take on it. I feel accused.
Everyone coming to the support of GDW said that he was right in feeling accused and attacked, when I did not see it that way, so why the double standard?
Read what he wrote: he said that you commented his reaction was over the top. That’s true. You did say that. You have to read between the lines after that statement from him and add: “Now, I’ll tell you why my reaction was over the top”. He then goes on to say why that is. He didn’t “accuse” you of anything.
How do you see it any differently than that?
a question, but I wouldn’t want to DISAPPOINT you with my response, and honestly, it is phrased such that the implication is that I CANNOT reasonably see it differntly, so I won’t bother actually answering it.
If you don’t see the double standard going on here, then I cannot make you see it no matter what I say.
I post this assuming that I may know more about PTSD and its effects than you do
You assume wrongly, but that is neither here nor there. Just because I choose not to rent my past open in public makes me no less deserving of respect for my feelings.
I thought I had earned around here, but that seems not to be the case. I am sick and tired of being patted on the head by people who ASSUME to know oh, so much more.
Brinn, I said in my post that I didn’t know what you knew about PTSD and that, regardless of what you knew, I posted for the benefit of others. I don’t understand why you’re turning your anger against me now.
Just because I choose not to rent my past open in public makes me no less deserving of respect for my feelings.
Frankly, that was unneccesary.
I thought I had earned around here, but that seems not to be the case. I am sick and tired of being patted on the head by people who ASSUME to know oh, so much more.
Clearly you got a lot of support for your stance. This isn’t a game where people ought to be keeping score.
I’m really disappointed by your response. I’ll just leave it at that. Obviously we see things differently and won’t get any further by hashing this out.
You don’t know me well enough to realistically be disappointed by anything I say or do (how does it feel to be told what you are allowed to do? Refering here to you telling me what is necessary and not necessary.)
AND NOWHERE DID I SAY IT IS A GAME — I said, and you even pulled out the quote, that I am tired of people patting me on the head ….
You know what Brin? You win. I give up. This is pointless.
Everyone is sooo understanding here about other people’s hurts — right — you all go ahead and keep patting yourselves on the back about that.
What did I win?
I wish we could go for a walk in the woods right now. Find a fallen tree, and sit together awhile, listening to the rustling leaves and the scurryings of little creatures. I’d offer a strong shoulder and a willing ear for as long as it was needed. This is also available via emial at scribe40@aol.com.
Thank you scribe — I will send an email.
I will never understand what you went through. I am sorry that you see EVERYONE who doesn’t agree with what you’ve said these last three days as “demonizing the troops” — it seems especially rancid directed at me, who has had numerous veterans from THIS war through my doors this summer.
I am sorry that I cannot be more understanding of you, but you have allowed your anger to spew forth all over the place on this site this weekend and I guess some of it just rubbed off.
Goddamnit.
perhaps you should take a moment to calm down, as ghostdancer is saying he is about to, and reflect.
If you can’t honestly understand the pain he is feeling right now, then take a step back. If you can’t understand what being lied into war and then called baby killers by the left who was supposed to be on your side did to an entire population of your fellow citizens who served then stop posting comments and walk away for a while. Seriously Bri. You are not helping. You are attacking because you feel like you don’t have this situation, this blog, under the control you need it to be. It’s not yours to control or make right, just like it’s not mine, nor Boo’s, nor Susan’s. There is nothing wrong with the blog. There is something going on with ghostdancer that is being exacerbated by some people on the site not getting what it really means to put your life on the line for a lie… and for what we are all screaming about here on this blog… what America is supposed to stand for.
Please stop antagonizing ghostdancer and recognize that people sometimes have feelings you don’t understand and do things you don’t approve of. I’m sure I’ve done it quite a few times this weekend. But oh well, we’re human.
So you don’t think gdw should have posted this as a diary instead of a comment… are we back at dkos now being diary police? I don’t think this is what you really want Bri and I am asking you to just let it go. Please. For the community. GDW is the only one doing this, not all of us. And he needs some space and encouragement. I showed you why in the other diary… which after I did the commentator decided to say the american military was worse than hitler. come on. is that okay discourse with you? seriously? it’s not a question of free speech, it is a question of people like you saying “well that’s not so bad, why are you upset”? to people like ghostdancer (not that you approved of the most recent comment, but I am making a point).
So please, take some time to think about how the actions/ reactions of a community can affect individual members and how they heal.
Not saying I agree with ghostdancer of course, because in this instance, I don’t. I want him to take a walk and get on back here… but that’s a different dissucion.
Spiderleaf, you should take your own advice.
Someone is called out by name in a diary, out of context, and accused of demonizing the troops. And you accuse that person of antagonizing the diarist?
Some of us have tried to heal. If that was your intent here, you should really ask someone for advice. I found your post highly offensive. If that wasn’t your intent, I want to be frank with you so that you can do better next time.
If your intent wasn’t to heal, maybe you should just let it go. Making your point isn’t worth making this place into Orange Cesspool II.
Whoah. You really need to get off your high horse Yaright. You are reading things into posts that aren’t there. Re-read ghostdancers post. Nowhere does he equate Bri with anyone else he has problems with. He is responding directly to posts Bri made in another diary altogether.
If this is your response to help heal, perhaps you should reconsider before you have all the facts.
Well, gee, I guess it just sucks when someone sees something in the writing that YOU say isn’t there — but it was ok, when GDW insisted on reading things in to others’ writing that many did not see there — fuck the double standard. I have HAD it.
It usually means that the “it” is written not on the page, but in the mind of the reader.
Maybe someone writes a simple poem, and to someone else it has a deep meaning more profound than the author was capable of.
Or maybe someone writes a sentence, and in that sentence the reader sees something that makes him confront thoughts he would rather not.
It does no good for author, whether of sentence or poem, to say I didn’t say that, here is what I said, as if people did not have the capacity of obtaining that information for themselves.
Readers bring to everything we write their own gifts, their own demons, illusions and dreams. Just as the author writes what he has to write, the reader reads what he has to read, and sometimes they are not the same. 🙂
Someone is called out by name in a diary, out of context, and accused of demonizing the troops. And you accuse that person of antagonizing the diarist?
You have misread the situation. See my comment to Brinn about PTSD and triggers.
Please. YOU are going to lecture ME about thinking about how other might feel before I post something — what the hell did YOU do yesterday?
And this may suprise you, but I a perfectly capable of being angry as hell and CALM at the same time.
Oh, anf FUCK YOU for saying that I am ANTAGONIZING ghostdancer — that is my whole godammed point I didn’t DO anything to him and yet I get kicked in the face. I guess it’s OK if your spiderleaf.
Screw that.
really nice bri. really useful. I’m trying to calm the situation down and help ghostdancer, and all of us, and you react like this.
in case you didn’t realize it I am perfectly capable of modifying my behaviour and seeing what is right in front of me to… which is what I did in my diary and have tried to do on the site since then.
but if it makes you feel better to tell me to fuck off, then go right ahead. I’m a big girl, I can take it.
You behaviour is not modified in ANY way excpet toward those who agree with you and have come in to support you — which I tried to do even though your GBCW diary evoked many different responses in me — I am not telling YOU to fuck off, I am telling you to lay off the holier than thou lecturing — I will not stand for it.
Really? Look again.
I never initiated an attack on Yaright, she/ he decided to initiate one against me… and with the snide tone of superiority when I was talking directly to you (and I thought in a compassionate way to both sides… if I was wrong you were free to tell me so) And I’m supposed to just let that go and not respond? Probably should have, but personal attacks are not acceptable to me, no matter who initiates them.
I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about and, honestly don’t give a shit — I was talking about posts TO ME, not to others. You big long screed up there in particular, telling me to calm down and take others’ feelings into consideration, from your percieved position of sancintony and right — that is what I am talking about — you have a problem with someone else, take it up with them.
at this moment I have a problem with you. But instead of engaging you in angry debate I’m going to go take a walk outside. Like I would council anyone I cared about to do.
oh. and in terms of my diary… I never asked you to hold your tongue. In fact I asked you repeatedly to engage with us and share your valuable perspective. You chose to disengage which is your right, but please don’t paint this as I only want to hear one side.
Why don’t YOU read again?
Sorry Bri. In between “fuck off”, “all hail the most sainted” I lost track of what was my fault and what wasn’t.
When you want to have a convo to hash this stuff out after we’ve calmed down, let me know.
There is no point.
I didn’t realize how much animosity you felt towards me, as it can’t all be because of this… even as I reach out you smack me back. I thought we were friends bri.
If you change your mind, you know how to reach me.
cheers,
spider
realize. There was no animosity until yesterday. There is no point because we do not see things the same way and your idea of reaching out is not the same as mine.
Friends? I think eveyone here should give a lot of thought to what that means. I know I am.
I support you. I appreciate you. I thank you for your interest in me and mine down here in MS. I missed your last inquiry until I found it after the diary in which you posted had scrolled out of my fifty recent diaries list, as I was not here for a couple of days. We are fine here, and besides the fact that we have 30,000 or so new citizens in the Jackson area adding to the traffic everywhere I go, things are returning to normal.
How are you and yours?
Thanks for the hug, blueneck. I’m glad to hear that all is well with you.
This will be the last thing I say on the matter. Choose to engage me or not, forgive me or not, it is ultimately up to you. I just hope you realize that if I didn’t care I wouldn’t keep trying. You may not agree with my delivery, my style, my substance, but please at least acknowledge that I am still here trying. Because you really do mean that much to me. Just as much as ghostdancer. As much as any member of this community.
I defended ghostdancer because I was feeling and seeing his pain at that moment. I wasn’t seeing yours. Yaright was. For that I am grateful and sorry. I am sorry no one else was recognizing your frustration and hurt. Really I am.
From my perspective, take it for what it’s worth, I see your point of view as this… please tell me if I am wrong…
You saw an unnecessary attack on my part of two posters you respect and admire. Regardless of my rationale, regardless of the outcome, you saw what you saw and that is valid. You took my example of how not to paint everyone with a broad brush in my diary as literal. That’s okay, it was a raw subject and I made it as cutting as I could to make my point. Agree/ disagree, different conversation.
You then saw the community rush to help ghostdancer heal. I don’t know if you read all the comments in that thread of mine, but it was a really valuable discussion… ductape and I don’t agree fully but we respect each other and are having a bit of fun at the moment… nothing was personal, it was political, language and community based. That was my intent and for the most part it has brought out the best in this community… soul searching, pushing boundaries, delving deep into sacred cows, engaging in discussion vs. dogma… it’s been a rough but good weekend… for most of us. Not all obviously because you are still upset and ghostdancer is taking a break. But believe it or not, I think ghostdancer will return replenished and reinvigorated and I think you will too… at least that is my hope.
Then gdw apologized to people, posted his ‘moving forward’ diary and we seemed to be doing just that. But then something happened… other people started talking, and not in the way gdw could handle at that moment… keep in mind we don’t know if gdw only browses via the ‘recent comments’ and could have taken a post personally that was completely unrelated… the wonders and curses of technology of course… so it triggered more pain for him. more pain is always only a decision, a conversation, a sentence, a click away if you are already predisposed to it. you know this, I don’t need to tell you.
So he got worked up, you posted your comment calling him a drama queen (which under normal circumstances he was being, he could have just replied to you directly, but that wasn’t his frame of mind, he needed to let EVERYONE know… for good or ill). And because he means so much to all of us we felt his pain and responded… not taking his diary as “calling you out”, but as a call for help. It was, and he needed it. You were right and we needed to realize that too. I know I did, I just couldn’t get into a debate about semantics and etiquette when I saw how much pain he was in and understood where it was coming from. I am sorry I ‘scolded’ you Bri, I was just trying to stop it from turning into something mean and nasty… which I saw your ‘prick’ comment as… I didn’t want to shut you up, just not let it get to name calling… something I have always refused to do… well, at least the last couple of years…
Last but not least, you saw me, someone who has two halves… and the one who originally posted the diary/ rant was the snarky, prima donna and precipitated the whole discussion telling you how to act…. I didn’t mean to come across like that, I have just been trying to build bridges and keep the discussion civil this whole weekend and spent WAY more time online than I should have over a long thanksgiving weekend to make sure I at least became the change I was seeking. I hope I accomplished that in some small way. If you disagree, that is most certainly your right. I won’t apologize for who I am, I like who I am. And I like and appreciate who you are too.
I mean it when I say you are my friend and I hope at some point we can move past this and have a conversation.
All the best Bri & I hope this isn’t taken as me being santimonious or righteous, I just wanted to let you know that I am on your side too.
Thanks for posting that. But you say it is the last thing you will say on the matter and I guess that is my problem — everyone is saying “move on” “let it go”, etc., etc. without even bothering to find out what is going on with me — not everyone, but the public ones….anyway, it really doesn’t matter. I appreciate your post. I guess we just leave it at that.
thanks Bri… I just meant I wasn’t gonna stalk you if you didn’t want to talk 🙂
I am happy to keep the discussion going if you would like to… I’m just glad we’re communicating (a bit) again.
cheers,
spider
MY GOD IN HEAVEN, HOLY MOTHER, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ALL DOING TO US!!!!!!!!! DO YOU NOT ONCE AND FOR ALL UNDERSTAND!!!!!!! I SIT HERE CRYING AS TO THE NONFEELING OF SOME OF YOU PPL IN HERE…HAVE I MISJUDGED YOU ALL???????! I can not and willnot allow this to break down my resisitance to what I have worked on for years to overcome. I like GDW have demons to which I must work on, on a daily basis in order to survive. I have tried my damndest to do this and I will not allow any of you to bring me back to square one!!!!!!!!!
Let it go!!!!!! It dont mean nothin…….DONT MEAN NOTHIN!!!!!!!!! I will leave for a few days too to work and make things right in my own heart/mind.
Where is the compassion and understanding I thought you all had in your hearts. I thought you all understood the underlying badness of this damn war!!!! I too, will stand by GDW to prevent this ever happening again to our young!!!!!!!!!!!
Even tho I am not in GDW area, I will go to sweat and pray to understand the turmoil here. We all have our demons to work on…you and I both must do this on a daily basis..now dont lie to me on that one either!!!!!!!!!! if it aint one thing it is another. For gods sake grow up…take a deep breath….get on with life. There is more out there in this world than you or me. We have a real job to attend to and that is making it safe and right for America once again….Will you stand with me and cindy and all the rest of the willing? or will you just sit by idilly and look on to what is happening on a daily basis. Dont just talk the talk, walk the walk!
Let GDW go and let him have his space. In his own way he is telling you what is going on in his head/heart. I rarely get this angry….but I am angry to the point of no return..let you walk in my shoes, do not tell me what I must think or feel like or write or do. I dare you to enter my life and deal with what GDW and I have to deal with on a daily basis…..come on…I dare you to walk in my shoes….you all know me…I am the most loving and caring person around but you do not tear me or my kind down for the fact of your own feelings here….get a grip, for heavens sake…..
GDW, I am sweating with you, Man. Can we smoke the pipe afterwards? It would be my honor.
God!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just think for once…before you speak…..
Ghostdancers way: I’ve only been here at Booman a couple of months, and I have not read much of your stuff. I have caught a bit of the rift that seems to involve you among others over the weekend.
Without trying to badmouth anybody involved (we all come from different places, and have different stories), I want you to know that I hope you don’t go anywhere. I’m just starting to get comfortable in the Frog Pond myself, and am looking for folks with similar mindsets.
I had a friend who was a medic in a combat co. over in Nam, so I have some small idea of what you refer to here. The way the country treated the returning troops from that war, was in my view, as wrong as the war itself.
I am quite opposed to what is happening in the Mid East in the name of the American People. I know there are GI’s who have committed war crimes, just because they like to. They should be punished. I know many other GI’s signed on to serve the country, some immediately after 9/11, and are now trying to make the best of a terrible situation. To label all as war mongers is not right.
We were all cheering on our troops after 9/11 happened as they went looking for Osama. The world was with us. The U-turn into Iraq, is not the fault of the common GI. Holding our leaders accountable for the mess they got us into is necessary and appropriate.
From what I have read of yours over the past three days or so, you have my respect. I feel you served the country for honorable reasons as best you could. Currently, you are doing more than many Americans to try to right wrongs that you see in our country today. I can’t ask more than that of a fellow citizen. Like I said earlier, I hope you stay here in the Pond. We need all of us to figure out how to save our country from this disastrous course.
and my share of Vietnam veterans. Besides my PTSD friend who is now dying of late-effects of Agent Orange, another arrived in the DMZ the day his father and two brothers were killed. When he was being treated for heroine addiction, he died in a one-car accident. Those are not infrequently suicides.
Ghostdancer, let no more pain be inflicted on you by those who have no clue what that time was like and no apparent understanding of the consequences for those who come home wounded. No one can judge.
I want you to be at Booman always, because I think you have a special wisdom that can only come of experience. But I also know several VN vets who are tortured by what this war in Iraq brings back to their minds. Please take care of yourself.
Darn it Ghostdancer.
I see the point you keep trying to make, but you keep messing it up. The more you try to justify why you are right and others are wrong, the worse this gets.
Instead of lecturing, why not invite an honest conversation? There are a lot of good insights in scribe’s diary and its comments. One of the points is its helpful to leave room for those who disagree with you to join in the conversation.
Right now you’re splitting the site into two camps — those who demonize the troops, and good upstanding moral citizens like yourself who’ve suffered personally in putting shattered lives back together.
That’s just not fair.
I didn’t see you call Brinnainne out by name, but then I kind of skipped around after seeing you demonize a portion of the community. Maybe you edited it. Either way, it speaks to why you posted this diary.
Like I said, I think I see your point of view. But if a new member of the site acted the way you have been, he’d be called out for it. You’re a highly respected member of the site. You should be above cheap shots like those.
If you’re still steamed at Ductape, call ductape out. I haven’t seen a “call-out” diary on boo-trib that I can recall. They’re more a fixture of the orange place — they’re crude, juvenile, and always add more heat than light.
I don’t like to see Brinnaine thinking she has to defend herself in a diary she hasn’t written a single comment in. If you had a disagreement with what she posted in another place, why didn’t you just take it up with her then? Separate the post from the poster. Leave the conversation in context.
I didn’t like it when you called me out in your diary earlier today. I answered your challenge, and I thought we settled things. But I see things weren’t settled for you.
You’re free to post whatever you like here, as long as Boo and Susan let it stand. But I wish you wouldn’t bring this site down to the level of discourse so common in the places most of are are so very glad to be rid of.
I don’t want to be a part of this kind of thing any more. I’ll now excuse myself from your diary, and avoid any others you post for a while.
Your journey has been more than I can comprehend – and that has made you a wise elder. I send you my respect and I wish you PEACE!
Take a step back from anger, please, everyone. That means everyone.
Ghostdancer, do the things that you need to do to cleanse and heal. Know that I am there with you and offering my support. If you are willing, we will meet in the higher places to gather in our spirits.
This is NOT directed at any specific person or persons, but if you feel it describes you or your actions in some way, I hope you will give some thought to it:
Those of you that are in anger over either side of this question, I ask you what you are afraid of? I know what ghostdancer’s fears are, but what are the rest of you afraid of.
Anger comes from fear. . .and yes we could hash and rehash all the steps from I was personally attacked, I was not respected, I was insulted, etc. but after we take all the steps and peel back all the disguises, anger comes from fear.
Compassion comes from a place of deep caring that wants to understand and offer solace to someone who is suffering. Compassion does not say I know or understand what you are experiencing, it says I care what you are experiencing and I offer nurturing to you if you wish to have it.
None of us fully understands what another has experienced unless we ourselves have experienced it, and even then our perceptions of those experiences differ. But we can care if we are willing to put ourselves out there. We can comfort if we are willing.
No one is required to accept our compassion or our caring. No one is required to offer compassion or caring.
But I am curious as to why we feel it necessary to attack each others opinions and view points, or much worse the person themselves. In the psychological sense, I know what the reasons are. But we seem to lose all sense of balance and reason when we are dealing with family, don’t we?
Everyone who is pained or in anger over this topic and ongoing discussion, I hope you will “take a walk around the block” or a step away from the irrational heat of this topic until you have a more settled and reasoned view to offer.
Continuing to attempt to hurt each other is not very caring, is not at all productive and causes a lot of disruption for those around you.
These are my opinions, they may not be yours. If you have a need to strike out at someone and be over the top angry. . .pile it on me. We will see what if anything we can do to temper it.
Let there be peace, and let it begin with me.
Ahh Shirl- the healer.
It’s more important to understand than to be understood.
It looks like many here are experiencing PTSD. I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but given the hurricanes, and the ongoing political crisis in this country, whew, it seems to never end.
I keep going back into an almost empty city, snapping pictures of the devastation, and the awkward beauty in the midst of it.
Then I go home and sometimes snap at my family. I need to talk to my sister, let her know what I am going through. I’m also going to take myself off of a few email lists that are political in nature. I’ve noticed they seem to encourage hyper-aggressiveness in all of the participants at one time or another, including myself.
I figure if people really want to communicate something to me, they know where to find me.
Tonight, for some reason, seems to be a peak emotional experience for many. Must be something in the air, or astrological perhaps.
For myself right now, less is more.
if there’s anything you need that we can provide; if you want to stay off of the main BooTrib insanity, at least drop into the Froggy Bottom Cafe and let us know if we can help out in any way…
Blessings, peace and lots of hugs to you and yours…
Thanks. That’s very sweet. I’ll see you at the cafe.
I used to volunteer at Balboa Naval Hospital in the late 60’s. Read letters, wrote letters, brought cookies and magazines. That sort of thing. Just thinking about it again makes me want to cry. Such a waste! And we seem to be headed down that road again. One ray of hope is that many in the military are speaking out. If not in public at least in private.
And speaking of triggers. The Balboa hospital is next to the San Diego Zoo. Wild animal sounds always take me back to those days. I wonder if the guys who spent time there can ever go to a zoo.
I remember it well -I lived in North Park for awhile.
Didn’t those peacocks scare you to death at night? Sounded like someone being murdered.
SQUACK SQUACK!!!
what I said to you was not an indictment nor an accusation. You are one of the most trusted individuals here and when you said I was over the top, you were exactly right. You can be angry, any of you can be angry with me, vilify me if you need too. It is not something I am unfamiliar with nor afraid of in this life.
I am afraid of the other wolf and I will not allow it to feed again.
Do what you must to allow yourself your own freedoms. I respect you Brinn and only wanted you to know that I understood what you were saying and found my own way to deal with it and allow myself the room to breath and not be a prick.
I am sorry that you feel I am a prick. Again not an unfamiliar place, yet that was never my intention.
I do not want sides taken, that is not the issue. This medium refuses to allow any of us to see the humanity in each of us, when pain enters into our posts. For that I am truly sorry that anyone was harmed by any comments or diaries that I have written. I can’t sleep, I can’t eat, I shudder in fear that the wolf who wants to destroy me will succeed this time.
I have lived through much and want only to live my life free of the horrors that have haunted me all my life.
I ask for your forgiveness Brinn, I did not mean anything other than to accept that you had indeed been right, I was over the top.
For all of you, those that find me offensive and those who don’t and accept me for who I am, thank you for taking the time to acknowledge one fact, I am indeed just a human being.
thank you
wado
was lovely. Best wishes to both you and Brinn from an admirer of both of you.
OT Please see email I just sent to you.
Correction;
GDW, please check for email.
>I can’t sleep, I can’t eat, I shudder in fear that the wolf who wants to destroy me will succeed this time.<
This will not occur. You are not alone.
You will walk this fire. You will be at peace again. You have much work to do and much joy to live.
I will send you an email — I cannot do this here any longer. If you feel that you are being misrepresented, and unfairly attacked, please understand that I too feel that way.
There is nothing to forgive and I wouldn’t presume to make it so.
This is such a good idea. I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I’m rooting for both of you to “find” each other again. Everybody’s saying peace to Ghost, and I say that, too, but peace to you, too, Brinn. You’re a sweetheart and I hate to see you so hurt and upset. I really hope things improve between the two of you. And now I will take my nose out of this!!
Thanks, kansas — it only hurts because I care about and respect gdw, and this place. I made it into something that it isn’t and won’t be, and that is my responsibility. I am as good at deluding myself as anyone else…
Brinnaine, I just wanted to say that I love what you write here. I’m still clueless about the recent scuffles, and I think I’m going to try to stay that way.
Anyway, I hope you, GDW, and anyone else whose feelings have been hurt are able to work it out, because I for one really value the particular set of voices BMT has right now. It’s hard to smile when the world is so dead seriously fucked up, but let’s try anyway.
Thanks, ubikkibu — wish I was clueless as well.
I have no idea whether you will read this or not, but I have no email address for you, so I can’t send an email.
May you find balance again, Ghostdancer, and peace…
Peace be on us all.
…so many of those men and boys came back destroyed as human beings.
My son, my only child, turns 18 tomorrow. I look at him and his friends, and think of how, if we lived in the States instead of Canada, surely some of them would be enlisting. And all I can think of is the criminal waste that would be, of these young flowers of manhood.
And I think of all the other young men in your country, their own mothers’ precious flowers, who are being eaten up by the voracious military machine, and yes, their humanity destroyed.
Thank you for your powerful words on their behalf.
Actually, I don’t think it’s necessary to split the site into “troop haters” and “troop supporters”. I think a large part of this may result in a misunderstanding by civilians who haven’t served in the military. We have two sorts of people approaching the American involvement in Iraq from very different perspectives.
Military veterans like Ghostdancers Way and I may feel misunderstood or personally attacked, when no personal attack was intended. And civilians may feel disgusted with the military as an institution, not just with individuals, because they feel that it is a big part of the problem.
I have been told that this split in thinking began during the Vietnam War (of course), and that it has been exacerbated by the isolation most Americans have from their military service personnel–a full-time volunteer army means that most Americans have never served in the military, nor do they have any relatives who have served. Thus, misunderstandings are created and grow.
I don’t think anyone here bears Ghostdancers Way any ill will. It seems that tempers are running hot, which is understandable, as I got a bit hot myself when I read the “To Hell With American Troops” diary. Here we come to the basis of the misunderstanding: there are folks here who get angry about diaries like that, and perhaps take them too personally, and then there are folk who don’t understand why others are upset. I hope that instead of shouting at each other, we can come to some sort of understanding of one another’s viewpoints, as difficult as that may be.
of the fear I felt when I was a little kid and my parents had one of their infrequent arguments. I couldn’t help the situation at all, but avoid it and wait for it to go away.
Songs come into my head and help me to understand. Now I’m hearing Barbra singing:
People who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world
We’re children needing other children
And yet letting our grown-up pride
Hide all the need inside
Acting more like children than children
I love you all, just gonna huddle here in the corner and wait for the storm to pass.
I’m so new here that I can’t say I know any of you well, but what I’ve seen over the last few weeks has made me feel this is a good place to hang my hat. The arguments of the last few days have not changed that. The people here are good people. You are good people.
I made several attempts at writing a response adequate to the moment, but I don’t have the words. Maybe there are no words that can speak to everyone here about what has passed. So I will address the future with a wish for all of you.
Live Beauty.
Go in beauty or stay in beauty as your needs dictate. If you must leave, know that I hope it is only for a time and that you will return in beauty. With each choice you make, even when all ways seem dark, know that in the night too there is beauty.
Live Beauty.
Breathe. Think. Live. Always in beauty.
It is said that we cannot really know another until we walk in their shoes. I am older and less sparkly and cranky than I used to be. Now I know that some of these young ones have not seen Viet Nam except in old footage. They have not seen the truth of war – that there is no good in war, there is no good leadership in war, there is no real good point in war, that war enriches a few but kills many and on and on. They have thought the leadership we have should be honorable and should care for its people, but in truth leadership has rarely been honorable and has always cared more for power than for posterity. Americans have been raised to be optimists, not realists. Now realism is rubbing our noses in its grimy, stinky, icky world and we don’t like it.
So in response we yell and scream at whoever is available maybe in the hopes someone will tell us it isn’t so, that we are having bad dream, it isn’t real. We say that others are just conspiracy buffs, that we needn’t worry, that the worst is not true. But more and more the truth is filling our minds with the horrible skunk stench that won’t let go.
All of our traumas from yesteryear are rearing up and grabbing us by the throat. None of us are immune from the “dysfunctional family syndrome” and we all are losing our center.
But there is love here as well. Grab it with both hands!
I don’t have the emotional strength right now to read all of these comments in their increasing anger and anxiety. I didn’t read what seem to be the underlying diaries last weekend for the same reason.
What I know is this: We are ALL in PTSD. The entire country. We have been since September 11, 2001. We were never given time, space to heal, to regroup, to assess what happened. Instead, we got terra, terra, terra, war, war, war, fear, fear, fear. All the time. 24/7. From every possible governmental source.
We’re all on edge. We’re all frightened, angry, frustrated.
Take a deep breath. Go for a walk. Drink a glass of water. Pet your cat. Whatever. Stop calling each other names.
Mitakuye Ayasin