Why is impeachment being bandied about lately?
I’ll tell you why. The war in Iraq is not going well. And more importantly, people from all ideological points of view have now lost faith that the Bush administration has the will, wisdom, or credibility to change course and prevent a disaster.
It is becoming increasingly clear that the best policy change we can make is to change the leadership. It begins with Rumsfeld, (who now claims he never wanted to fight this war), despite making bellicose anti-Saddam statements on the afternoon of Sept. 11.
With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans. And at 2:40 p.m., the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying he wanted “best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H.” – meaning Saddam Hussein – “at same time. Not only UBL” – the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden.
Now, nearly one year later, there is still very little evidence Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. But if these notes are accurate, that didn’t matter to Rumsfeld.
“Go massive,” the notes quote him as saying. “Sweep it all up. Things related and not.” CBS NEWS
But getting rid of Rumsfeld is no longer considered a sufficient course correction. It’s clear to close observers that Scooter Libby perjured himself to cover up Dick Cheney’s culpability for outing Valerie Wilson. Cheney gave Libby the name and the media strategy for smearing Wilson. When it became apparent that Cheney had committed a crime, the White House went into cover-up mode. But Cheney’s problems run deeper. He has lost the confidence of the Bush Crime Family, most notably, of Brent Scowcroft, who now says he doesn’t even know Dick Cheney anymore. Meanwhile, Powell and Armitage have referred to him as crazy, and Larry Wilkerson said Cheney and Rumsfeld constituted a secret warmongering cabal.
When Michael Moore says such things, he’s partisan. When the extended Bush Crime Family says them, it’s serious.
There is a gangrene on the Presidency. That gangrene is growing in the Vice-President’s office and in the Pentagon. Dubya responded by firing back at the war critics, equating questioning of the pre-war intelligence with aiding and abetting the enemy. The Washington Post’s editorial board’s Fred Hiatt, joined in this chorus, stating:
What Lieberman doesn’t say is that many Democrats would view such an outcome as an advantage. Their focus on 2002 is a way to further undercut President Bush, and Bush’s war, without taking the risk of offering an alternative strategy — to satisfy their withdraw-now constituents without being accountable for a withdraw-now position.
Many of them understand that dwindling public support could force the United States into a self-defeating position, and that defeat in Iraq would be disastrous for the United States as well as for Mahdi and his countrymen. But the taste of political blood as Bush weakens, combined with their embarrassment at having supported the war in the first place, seems to override that understanding.
Hiatt ignores the fact that Carl Levin, who is leading the charge in the Senate, did not vote for the Iraq War. He also ignores the fact that no one has any confidence left in the civilian leadership of the war effort. In the simplest formulation, we haven’t built up the Iraqi government’s military, police, and intelligence forces sufficiently to prevent a catastrophic civil war after we draw down our troops. This failure alone is enough reason to change the civilian leadership, but when we add the manipulation of pre-war intelligence to the mix, we are talking about malfeasance on a different order of magnitude.
For several years columnists and politicians as varied as Tom Friedman, John Kerry, and Bill Kristol have been offering advice on how to improve the performance of our troops in Iraq.
They have tired of giving advice that is not taken. Increasingly, the only solution looks like a change of leadership. Bush could buy some time by firing Rumsfeld and asking Cheney to resign. Fitzgerald could be a real patriot if he would indict Cheney and make his choice for him. After all, Bush can’t force Cheney to resign. But if Bush keeps trying to stay the course, rumblings of impeachment will keep growing, eventually from both sides of the aisle.
In agreement with this impeachment reasoning.
Dont stop ther with bush, rummy, cheney…go after all of them!!!!!! I really want all of them behind bars…I really do!!!!!!! every last little player in this farce..
Thanks Booman. Hugs. How is your shoulder?
when you cut off the head, the rest will follow. If we start investigating Bush, Cheney, et al, enough info will come out about the rest of the crew that we should have plenty of ammunition to put most of them behind bars.
Only exception might be Scotty McClellan — I’m not sure “felony gullibility” qualifies as a chargable offense. 😉 Hell, I almost feel sorry for the guy…almost…
.
Don’t undersetimate the political family from Texas ::
Ma Carole Keeton Rylander & The McClellan Family.
«« click on pic for story
The whole Governor Bush cabal from Austin – Alberto Gonzales, Harriet Miers, Karl Rove, Karen Hughes …
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I think that’s what Fitzy is trying to do with Scooty. He may see him as the weak link that ties them al together. Pull on that string and the whole fabric unravels.
That’s my take anyway.
If you asked me a couple of months ago I woul dhave said NO WAY on impeachment..what with all parts of gov owned by the republicans. Now, I’m not sure any more!!!!
Calum calay!
but simply manage to elect a Democratic majority in the next election cycles, nothing has been fixed.
We are witnessing a constitutional crisis as well as a political one. Without a detailed accounting and examination of what went wrong and how these actions were against the law as well as un-American on their face, our government is still afflicted. Impeachment must happen to avoid everything disappearing down the memory hole.
Why has Bush been threatening to not sign the bill that would include McCains anti torture addition? Wouldn’t that mean Bush is supporting Cheney and his torturous ways? Bush and Cheney are one in the same and everybody should know it.
I love Carl Levin! (Not just because I am from MI and consistently vote for him.)
Levin recently said on a talk show that now that we are in Iraq….he implied we needed to stay to fix it.
It isn’t fixable. Anyone who wants us to stay in Iraq is a advocating a fascist kind of position. There is no reason in the world to stay. No one could fix this. This is a raping of Iraq we are doing. The rape victim does not want to hear how sorry the rapists is for raping them, they want them to go away. The United States is a rapist and should leave, turn itself in and seek counseling. We are not psycoholigically fit to stay in Iraq.
We are not sane.
you should consider one fact.
Iraq is going to have elections in December. Those elections will elect a parliament, however imperfect.
If that parliament can govern the people of Iraq may see some improvement in their security situation, and it could prevent widespread Iraqi on Iraqi bloodshed. But if that parliament cannot govern because it cannot protect itself, then there will be a lot more bloodshed and a further deterioration of security (and the economy).
Even if you posit that the Americans are not helping matters, it still isn’t clear what is best for Iraqi society at this time. I would argue that the best possible outcome is that the Iraqis elect a parliament and then protect that parliament from being overthrown using their own troops paid through their own treasury (and perhaps some aid from other nations).
They might need American air power and reconnosaince to hold on. They might not.
What’s clear is that we should not stick around as the police force for very long after the elections. And we have to be prepared to let the whole nascent government fail if it cannot provide it’s own on the ground security. But make no mistake, Iraqis will suffer more if their nascent government collapses. And if they survive they may be somewhat dependent on us, but they will hardly be puppets. In fact, they will probably be more puppets of Iran.
The whole thing is a mess. But US withdrawal does not equal an end to the suffering of the Iraqi people. The withdrawal has to be done responsibly (if for no other reason, for the benefit of Iraqis).
Know what you are saying. But the price that this country is paying is too high. I don’t know what the answer is, I really don’t. But, I am concerned that any government in Iraq (except the exact government that bushco wants) will be used to continually justify an ongoing US Occuaption.
you should be concerned about that. That is what this article is about. No one has any faith in this administration anymore, so no one is willing to let them co-opt an alternative strategy as their own. No trust left.
But there is no reason for American troops to leave today. At a minimum we should stay until the new parliament is seated and they attempt to ratify the constitution. At that point, we should begin leaving and changing over what remains to be a kind of 911 service around Baghdad. If Baghdad falls like Saigon, so be it. But we should at least follow thru and give them a chance.
One difference between South Vietnam and the Iraqi government is that the Iraqi government is attempting to represent the majority of the people. If Iraq is taken over by Sunnis it will be a new tyranny, not a liberation.
This is also a very serious concern.
Like those who have sustained TBI’s as a result of the occupation of Iraq have a chance?
But I really find some of your comments about the situation in Iraq to be naive.
The Iraqi government is attempting to represent the majority of the people?? As opposed to South Vietnam??
Boo, I’ve been in South Vietnam, I was in Russia for nine years when they were trying to impose a western-style democracy in a country that had basically ZERO experience with democracy. It doesn’t work.
It seems to me it requires an enormous and, in my opinion, erroneous leap of faith to think that what is going on in Iraq now in any way remotely resembles the establishment of REAL democracy. What we could possibly get there — in the most optimistic scenario — would be another pseudo-democracy similar to Russia (some might argue similar to our own here)where they maintain enough of a fig leaf of democracy (a corrupt election every once in awhile to “elect” pre-ordained leaders, a constitution that no one really pays attention to, etc.)even as the Iraqi people again slip under the yoke of tyranny.
What you are talking about is the US “saving face”, that is, trying to make it look like we accomplished something there when, indeed, we did not. You want to be able to say when (not if) it all fails, well, we did the best we could. This was the strategy to finally get out of Vietnam, a bullshit “peace with honor” peace treaty that allowed us to get our butts out before the inevitable fall of the South Vietnamese government took place.
Now maybe in some realpolitic universe, that’s what we should be striving for. But in my judgement, the prospects of “democracy” in Iraq — real or phony — are slim to none. And I keep thinking about those US soldiers and Iraqi civilians who are going to die during this “face-saving” period. The US government made a huge mistake, so they have to die so we don’t look so bad?
I know, that’s harsh, but I come at this from a different place, Boo. I WAS one of those soldiers (Vietnam, 70-71) who was putting my life on the line in a war this country had long since ceased to try to win. I made a vow that I would never sit by idly and allow others to be put in that position. I can’t say I’ve done much, but I have to answer those who can naively say “so be it” to such a useless waste of lives.
what I’m really talking about is about 3-4 more months of current troop levels, followed by a steep withdrawal.
The quality of the democracy in Iraq is going to be dubious no matter what. But unlike in Vietnam, the active insurgency against the government (not necessarily against us) represents a minority (the Sunnis). Therefore, the weight of the population has an interest in preserving the new government, if for no other reason than to provide some security.
It’s an important distinction. Because when North Vietnem prevailed it represented a majority desire, at least so far as liberating the country from Western powers and ridding the country of a minority Catholic government.
In Iraq the Shi’a represent a solid majority, and the anti-government insurgency does not represent the so-called will of the people.
That is why we want to leave, but also why the government we leave behind has more legitimacy than the one we left behind in Saigon.
Ultimately, the government we were fighting for in Vietnam was not worth fighting for. But in this case the alternative to the government is either a return to a Sunni tyranny, or just a lot of bloodshed and civil war. So, it seems to me to be worth it to stick around until the parliamentary elections are held and the constitution is ratified (hopefully), and then to beat a hasty retreat. It’s not just face-saving. It’s not just staying the course. It makes sense.
However, once the new government is in place, our presence will really be very counterproductive. So, I would at most support providing some intelligence, maybe some emergency air support, and perhaps (although ideally not) some sort of praetorian guard.
If the collapse of any kind of government would somehow benefit Iraqis, or represent some kind of real liberation, I might feel differently. But the best result for the Iraqis is to have some level of security. We should stick it out for another 3-4 months.
What do I tell a family that loses a child in the next 3-4 months? I tell them that they died trying to give Iraq a chance to emerge from this with some kind of government that could avert civil war. In the end, it may not have been worth the effort. But I can’t support pulling out today.
be careful not to misrepresent what I said. There are two insurgencies going on. One is an effort to kick the Americans out, and one is an effort to kill anyone associated with the new government. Sometimes there is a confluence of interests and sometimes there is not.
If we were to leave, the only insurgency left would be among Sunnis. What we want to do is to make sure these Sunnis do not succeed in toppling the government.
The government is not really our puppet for the simple reason that we lost control of this process a long time ago. They are as much, if not more, a puppet of Iran. I don’t much care if the government becomes a Shi’a theocracy. I mean, I don’t wish that on the Iraqi people, but I am not prepared to sacrifice American lives to prevent it.
So, I disagree on several points. The only insurgency we need to really concern ourselves with is the one that will remain after we leave. The government of Iraq is more legitimate than the government of South Vietnam, but I don’t much care whether they can maintain recurring elections. This is no longer about democracy, but about preventing an implosion.
There is good reason to believe that the likely implosion can be best minimized by at least getting through the elections and ratification of the constitution. If it fails after that point, there is nothing than can be done by us to fix it.
This is, of course, a purely rhetorical argument anyway, because we are not leaving in the next 3-4 months. So, in reality, we basically agree. We should get out, and soon. I’m just arguing for investing 3-4 months more to give the best possible chance to the new government. Not for democracy, but for security.
Point taken on the misreading of your comment on the insurgency.
You continue to make what seem to me to be unverified assertions. How do you know if we were to leave, the only insurgency left would be the Sunnis? What about Zarqawi? What is the “good reason” to believe that the likely implosion can be best minimized by getting through the elections and ratification of the constitution? Sounds to me more like a desperate hope than a good reason. It seems to me you continue to avoid the central question I am asking: how is anything you are proposing anything other than a waste of lives and resources?
You’re right it’s all rhetorical, since it would probably take a lot more than 3-4 months (particularly for the “planners” in this Pentagon) to sort out the logistics of getting us out of Iraq, even if the decision was made tomorrow. It’s the mind set, I guess. I just react strongly when I hear or read someone — no offense, but particularly someone who has never been in war — who is blithely willing to sacrifice other people’s lives in pursuit of some naive, ethereal, totally impractical adventure.
don’t accept the myth of Zarqawi. I believe he is either dead or a minor player. He is utilized to mask the level of populist Iraqi rejection of the occupation.
However, Zarqawi is a Sunni, and whatever influence he has is aimed at destroying Shi’a influence. He may not be interested in a return to Ba’athism, but that makes him position no less hostile to the new government.
Where you and I are differing is this:
The new government, whatever its flaws, will at least roughly represent the people of the country along roughly accurate sectarian and ethnic lines. It is a majoritarian representation. And if it falls into a tyranny, it will be a tyranny of the majority, not the minority. For this reason it has more potential than the South Vietnamese government had. Plus, it is not strictly a puppet of the United States, as it is more influenced by our arch enemies. So we are already in a lose-lose situation. But, the new government is the only hope for security and a return to civic and economic life in Iraq. So, if we can help them just get thru the next steps and have their elections, they will be as well set up as possible. After that, they is nothing more we can really do that won’t be counterproductive. If they fail, they fail. But they at least have a chance.
I am not being blithe.
You talk about Iraq as if it were an American concern. It’ isnt’ an American concern. It’s a concern of the Iraqui people. LEAVE THEM ALONE. Let the SUnnis insurgencyt take over. They will present a secular, Liberal governement. THAT IS IN AMERICAN INTEReSTS. Just get out and let whatever happens happen it’s none of our goddamn business.
How unbearbly stupid this discussion is.
If you are interested in freedom and the American way you support the insurgency.
I nominate this as the stupiddiest (sic) post I’ve ever read.
We are at war in a country but it is not our concern. Our entire post World War Two foreign policy has been based on our relationship with the Middle East but it is not our concern. We should encourage a minority of radically non-secular Muslim extremists to take over the second most oil-rich country in the world because it is not our concern. We should welcome the ensuing slaughter of Kurds as none of our concern. We should abandon anyone in the region that has shown any friendliness to us as none of our concern. The majority of the Iraqi people should be left to suffer in a civil war led by a minority of the people because it is none of our concern. We should support freedom and the insurgency because it is American to support the tyranny of a religious minority over a religious majority.
You could not make a worse case.
Well, I don’t think it’s stupid.
I am in favor of pulling out period and resuming sane foreighn policy.
People are going to be killed whether the US stays or not.
Don’t you agree that the US should not have gone there in the first place?
If you do….how can you reconcile staying?
Sadaam Hussein’s government was better than anything the future holds, wouldn’t you agree to that? There was stability.
This is for the Iraqi people to decide, not America. Our “interests” are oil and business.
We …the US are not all going to die because there is a civil war in Iraq and the price of oil goes up.
THe US in incompetent. It must leave. It doesn’t understand what it’s ddoing. I think that is observable and factual.
There is no escape, no solution to this. My opinion which you call stupid is the opinion of many people like Robert Fish, Naomi Klein, Amy Goodman and many others. So it’s not way out there.
Now maybe your referring to the insurgents. The insurgents….the Sunnis and some Shiites were not religously divided until the US came into the picture to the degree they are now. They mixed quite naturally.
So the idea that this is a religous war is mistaken. The insurgents are fighting the Americans and Iraqui who support them. If the US leaves the insurgency will diminish. It isn’t a religous war, it’s a political war.
Religion when applied is used for political purposes.
I don’t see what business it is of the US to be in Iraq, not according to the alleged values of this country.
I’m responded to the idea that Iraq is none of our concern. If you want to make the argument that it should not have been our concern, you need to go back to 1990 and talk to H.W. Bush.
We have had troops stationed in and around Iraq since that time, and it has been a major concern of ours what goes on there.
There is a big difference between the idea that we should not have invaded Iraq and the idea that we have no concerns in and around Iraq.
To site just one example, I think we have an obligation not to allow the Kurds to get slaughtered for a third time in my lifetime because of our broken promises.
Rape Etiquette: Rule number #3: The rapist should withdraw his penis in a responsible manner from the victim.
Please keep voting for Levin – he’s always been a class act. I know someone who used to work in another senator’s office and she says that Levin is the senator most respected by his colleagues.
Absolutely! Carl Levin is also most respected by his constituents. I have had to call his office on a few occasions re: obtaining/clarifying info, and the staff is always on top of everyting. Never had to wait more than a couple days for an answer.
How does LIEberman’s task force that “cleared” this administration of any wrong doing figure into this… I knew he was up to something…
This is the real reason why Dems may not be able to impeach… because so many Dems like LIEberman were accomplices…
remember when he was taking so many pics with the widows of the 9-11 victims… did he liw to those women?
Maybe if the Dems take over both houses next year, but….
The Dems have not shown to me, anyway, that they have the desire or the spine to impeach the Bushies, considering the major role of codependant they played in the whole affair. There would need to be not only a change of party in leadership, but of substantial numbers of Dems currently in Congress as well. Not floggin likely.
Beyond that, if the Dems think they can somehow coast to victory in 06 by being NOT-Republicans, or Republican-lite, then in my opinion the chances of a sweep of the Congress remain slim to none.
Let me offer a more pessimistic, yet in my opinion, more realistic scenario:
The Dems make some modest gains in 06, maybe take one house but not the other.
Fitz waits for Libby to crack, but Libby holds firm. Why? Because he’s got the going-out-the-door-in-08 presidential pardon in his back pocket (why else would he have been so blatant about what he was doing?). Fitz can’t get Karl without Scooter; Karl finishes out the term with Chimpie in the WH, with the congressional Dems whining and bleating, but doing nothing significant to stem the tide of WH incompetence and ideological rape of the country.
No impeachment, no accounting, no nothing.
Just politics as usual.
Talk to me in a year to see if I’m right.
I fear that you are right, but I hope to hell you are very wrong!
So do I…
“There is a gangrene on the Presidency.”
You are wrong.
Too many letters in the subject of the first half of the sentence.
There is a gang in CHARGE of the Presidency.
In charge of the United States ship of state.
We have been hijacked, and we are now in the process of being ripped off.
This is not a metaphor, either.
It’s a fact.
Jack.
A fact.
What do you do when you realize a hijacking is in progress? One that threatens to ultimately kill your collective asses for SURE, no matter what protestations of goodwill the hijackers may offer to get you to sit down and accept your fate?
If you have any courage whatsoever?
If you want to live?
You wait for an opportune moment…and right now IS an opportune moment in this particular hijacking drama,…and then you strike with all of your might.
ALL of your might.
You take them down any way you can.
Hold nothing back, because it is entirely possible that you may not GET a second chance.
The battle is on. Let’s not pussyfoot around.
I not only want these people…these white collar, teflon don political gangsters…impeached, I want them indicted, tried, convicted and put to death for their crimes.
They are murderous thieves.
Nothing less.
And nothing more, either.
Just uncommonly successful common criminals.
Strike now, while the moment lasts.
Because:
“You better – lose yourself in the music, the moment…You own it, you better never let it go.
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime…..
Eminem
Yup.
Once in a lifetime.
Which “lifetime” threatens to be drastically shortened by unnatural means if we let these people off the hook.
Remember…they are VERY GOOD at what they do.
They slipped up…just a little…with this Plame thing and now they are in danger of going down.
Show no mercy, no weakness, none of the usual “liberal” ennui.
“SIC ‘EM, FITZ!!!”
Go for the jugular.
Don’t let ’em up.
And do not let up on them, either.
Meanwhile…go all out for 2006.
Win.
And then…
TAKE THEM DOWN!!!
No fear.
“May you be born into interesting times.”
Is this a curse, or a blessing?
Or both?
Depends on what you make of it.
Doesn’t it.
What are WE going to make of it?
Stay tuned…News at 11.
AG
P.S. When people like Kos say “Go slow…be practical”…THAT’S the time to floor it !!!
ENOUGH “practicality”. Look at where it’s gotten us SO far.
Gilroy is right that something has to be done now. But it cant’t happen here because there is no one waiting in line. It’s all the same people ready to take over. Despair first, then hope
I don’t get what’s going on here.
This is fantasy.
This is politically time wasting.
Not only is it not going to happen, but it wouldn’t help us politically if it did… no, for the strategists what they need is this debacle be as widely spread as possible… not pinned to one man that barely knew what the hell was going on at the time… helping the mirage that HE’S ACTUALLY controlling this disaster.
does he deserve impeachment… probably, but I’m not sure, and it’s not happening without an indictment… not with Republicans controlling congress, and guess what, not even if Demcrats did. Just a prediction.
why do I say “I’m not sure”… it doesn’t say in the constitution that the President has to be competant or can’t be a total asshole. It’s supposed to be partly our fault for electing him.
impreach the stupid American voter.
what bugs me most is it shows how the demblog head is in this strange fantasy space… fully virtualized now.
You seriously need to go back and look at the timeline of 1973-74. This is so much more serious. Your assumptions about the likely behavior of Republicans are based on the recent past. Things are about to fundamentally change in this country. We are in the early stages of a constitutional crisis.
and one nomination deep into Constitutional crisis.
I think your right boo. This is so much more serious.
Watergate was kids stuff compared to this.
Have you ever read “The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight” by Breslin.
What that book proved to me is that, while I had thought Nixon came down for doing wrong… NO, it was Tip O’Niell and mastery of smoke and mirrors that enabled that toppling.
I refer to the timelines of Watergate when I fail to see the same dynamic here.
The pressure from serious discussion of the massive incompetency can help compromise the worst of what this cabal is able to get done.
If we think Just a minute about the ways they’re preparing to hobble the United States for decades to come, everything we can throw in their way casts an enormously long shadow.
don’t you think well chosen things would work better than throwing “everything”?
my view is we talk impeachments after some convictions… right, I like the Fitzy way of going about crime.
And incompetence is not impeachable or the voters would have been impeached themselves.
The parallels to the bombing in Cambodia are just too sureal!
an official further down in the article.
I would have to agree.
but an aerial strafing of Omaha by Sudanese jets would do wonders for Bush’s popularity.
post classified Pentagon memos on public message boards.
I am very interested in this
尖锐湿疣 性病 尖锐湿疣 咪喹莫特 疣迪 尖锐湿疣 咪喹莫特 疣迪 艾达乐 咪喹莫特 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣