“Skullduggery” —“unfair and dishonest practices carried out in a secretive way in order to trick other people.”-from the AP story.
Many in the blogosphere agreed:
“Hackett would have probably won this seat,” David Nir, one of three founders of the liberal Web site SwingStateProject.com, contended in a blog posting Tuesday. “It’s much harder for me to envision the ‘northeastern Ohio liberal’ Sherrod Brown breaking the 49-percent barrier, particularly with DeWine moving to the center.”
Not everyone agreed in the world of Weblogs, or blogs, but there was plenty of anger and many threatened not to help Brown. Matt Stoller, a leading voice on the liberal blog MyDD.com who wasn’t involved in the Ohio Senate race, said Hackett represented a failure by bloggers to compete.”
-from another AP story. Stoller also said, “Don’t follow Paul Hackett’s example.” Also, MoveOn.org is asking “Should we take on right-wing Democrats?”
Howie opinion: We have our divisions and conflicting agendas, like everybody else, and I don’t have all the answers. But I do believe it’s a good idea to avoid the temptation to DIVIDE BEFORE WE CONQUER, whenever possible.
What say you?
Update [2006-2-15 18:5:59 by howieinseattle]: Fellow Seattle blogger Mollie Bradley-Martin (no relation!) observes:
“There is a silver lining to this mess though, and that is that Sherrod Brown is not a centrist Democrat, he is a progressive with a long record of supporting the issues that we care about most. He voted against the war, against the Bankruptcy Bill, against re-authorization of the Patriot Act and led the fight against CAFTA. However badly the situation was handled, the end result is still good. This is not a case of a DINO winning out over a progressive. This was an ugly intra-party feud that never should have happened. It was handled badly by everyone involved, but it is by no means a loss for progressives. While the top down dictation by party leaders in selecting the candidate of their choice is a problem we must all be willing to go to the mat in order to fix, this particular race, In the end, was a choice between two great candidates so we could hardly lose.
Progressives should wash the bad taste out of our mouths and get behind Sherrod Brown. He may lose, as he doesn’t have the crossover appeal that Hackett had (and those damn Diebold machines are still a problem), but he will surely lose without our support and regardless of how we feel about the way he entered the race, his record is one we can be proud of. This is a high-class problem for those of us on the left, two good candidates rather than the one bad one we’re so used to. If Brown will stay on message, take a lesson from Hackett and not only push hard a progressive agenda that benefits working Ohioans but shout it out at the top of his lungs, he’s got a very good chance of winning. And Paul Hackett should help make that happen, regardless of whether or not he was personally treated badly by the Party. There is no rest for the weary and this is going to be a long struggle. Like he said, “we must have the commitment and will to fight for what is great about our party and our country”. Don’t waste too much time licking your wounds Mr. Hackett, we need you on the frontlines.”
More comments about her post here, on The Smirking Chimp.
{{{{Howie opinion: We have our divisions and conflicting agendas, like everybody else, and I don’t have all the answers. But I do believe it’s a good idea to avoid the temptation to DIVIDE BEFORE WE CONQUER, whenever possible.}}}}
I think Howie is right on with this one!
It was so obvious what was happening yesterday and Monday. The elite of the party has got to be taken down a notch or two, dont you agree???? :o)
At least the leader that Dean is, recognizes this.
I’ll probably write a whole post about this soon.
It is the primary season. It is appropriate for Democrats to discuss the direction of the party and to fight for their principles right now. That means we need to fight with each other and with the goons in D.C. that have a different opinion about that the party should represent.
But, once the primaries are over, I don’t think there are but 5 or 6 Republicans in the whole Congress that deserve re-election. We need majorites more than we need purity.
We have already learned our lesson. In 2008 look for the netroots to have a lot more muscle, an alternate platform, our own candidates sworn to that platform, and improved financing.
But until then, we have to suck it up and go with the candidates that win our primaries. We must win majorities. The whole fucking world is depending on us. So, fight now, make up later, and work.
Again with the majority vs. purity argument. Let’s look at the last Senate Dem majority, shall we? Patriot Act, NSA spying, Iraq… why does anyone believe that without change, the future will be any different from the past?
What good is a majority that sends our children to kill and die? Makes no difference to the thousands who have been killed and maimed, who are homeless and hungry.
Purity, my ass. How about something as simple as respecting the Constitution, international law and human rights. We’re not talking about digging up Mother Teresa, we’re talking about a party that doesn’t sell out the public interest for corporate cash or political positioning.
Screw the “suck it up, the whole world is depending on us” justification. For what? Kinder, gentler pre-emptive war? Nicer permanent bases?
I agree with Howie and, but of course, you too, Brenda. As if.
I PRAY we are right.
We hold our noses and vote for the bastards again in ’06 and ’08.
But, by god, if they can’t get the majority in Congress and the White House by then, all bets are off.
And, by god, if they DO get the majority in Congress and get in the White House, they’re going to get a non-stop litany of abuse from me until they get more progressive, and stop pandering to the unfree press.
P.S. I fully — pessimistically — expect my theory to fail. But it’s worth a last <strike>shot</strike>, er, chance.
I agree with Dean….I’m watching it happen in my own backyard. Local Dem party is backing a wussy, almost DINO candidate for congress. We are a very progressive county and want a very progressive candidate….
Back door poiticking is a way of life…but we in the grassroots and netroots can support other candidates first.
The only way we will be divided is if a section of our community, do not recognize there is more than one way to skin a fish. That there is no right way. That Democracy itself is a reflection of this basic fact.
When we have people, high profile people, saying that subverting Primaries (not just on Ohio) is the way forward and anybody saying otherwise is wrong, stupid and ill informed, that is what will cause alienation.
Dean commenting is right. The subversion of primaries around the nation is happening, it’s real and it the people involved may be doing it for the right reasons, to win, but at what cost? Choice for one, alienating active grassroots is certainly another. When prominent people then turn round and tell these people to STFU, that’s where the damage is being caused.
Hackett may have lost, the issue is wider than that. IL-06, IL-14. In IL-06 we have Rahm pleading to raise 100K in the next 7 days for his candidate, so he can say “Cegalis cannot raise money, she is not viable. Go with my woman instead, look how much money she raised. She I viable. She’s an amputee, that’s going to work for us”. Understand this is a cabal of half a dozen Democrats making national decisions on candidates. Removing the power from the people, while running on the platform of “we the people”.
http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/2005_08_07_markcrispinmiller_archive.html
The issue is a unilateral, undemocratic decision by the DSCC/DCCC to put an end to primaries.
And now we see people having a go at Dean for standing up for what is right. This is the biggest crisis the blogosphere has faced, and we need the prominent few, the top “class” of the blogs to see past Hackett and see the danger in marginalizing grassroots support (a great antidote to money) by removing their candidate using any means necessary.
Looks like some people are in a hurry to blame the “dividing” on Hackett and the netroots. Who divided? Who conquered? Wasn’t Hackett. Wasn’t us.
IMHO it was the people who are hell bent of having no 2006 primaries.
Either that or we are expected to just STFU about this, because the end (winning) justifies the means (no choice, reduction of the democratic process).
DeWine was in favor of the investigation and then turned against it and actually supported the programs or the other way around?. What happened to change him?
Maybe DeWine had something to say about who he wanted to run against. Someone seems to have power over the democrat leaders.
Or, did the WH pressure get to him with a message to get everybody else in line?
Or, was this also a message to anyone speaking out, like Dean?
One thing is clear. Don’t mention ethics if you’re running for office.
Howie, I think in your post you’re conflating two separate issues into one. The first issue is the skullduggery of the democratic party elite shutting the grassroots out of the primary election process, by handpicking its preannointed candidates– the will of the grassroots be damned. As Matt Stoller very accurately pointed out, the furor that erupted in the blogworld yesterday over the Hackett-Brown race was motivated not by ideology but by class and power structure; it was not a matter of progressive-versus-centrist Democrats but of the powerless “lower” class of grassroots activists versus the self-apointed “upper” class of party elites who hold all the power and call all the shots– making for a very undemocratic candidate selection system.
Secondly, your post raises the issue of “Should we take on right-wing Dems?” This is a separate battle: one of progressive Democrats-versus-the centrists DINOs. As Stoller pointed out, there is a frequent tendency to mistake grassroots anger as always being ideologically motivated, when in instances like with Hackett, it is more accurate to say that the anger resulted from a perceived powerlessness many of us “lower” class Dems feel when our will gets overridden by people who tell us that they know better than we.
A lot of infighting occurred yesterday that could have been avoided because of this confusion of the two issues.
Chris was right, but when Kos surrounds himself with snooty people like Dhinmi who refer to themselves as the emeriti, and who clearly ban people for there own personal reasons, rather than politics, I have a hard time sympathizing with his plight. This poster also calls out posters and engages in ratings abuse as he clearly did to Curmudgeon.
Have to disagree:
What we have now isn’t working, hasn’t worked since the Nixon Administration (and NO, the Clinton Administration didn’t “work”, unless you count losing the legislature and passing a Republican anti-worker, anti-poor agenda “working”).
I say we have at it. No gloves. Bare fists, harsh words and boards studded with framing nails. Rebuilding this party, if it is ever going to BE an actual functioning political party, requires the actual creation of a PARTY AGENDA, and that will only come about through all-out, no-holds-barred, no-quarter-given political brawling.
The ONLY way that the poor, women and workers will ever have this party back if such a battle takes place, and it needs to end w/ Biden and his buddies carried off the field bloodied, muddied and retired in disgrace.
None of this, of course, will ever happen: the monied class won’t let it, so until a genuine populist and progressive movement can be built, IF it can be built, we’re going to be stuck living in a quasi-fascist banana republic, reviled by the rest of the world and reaping everything we’ve sowed since WW2.
Oh, and MoveON, the answer is HELL YES.
PS: Increasingly, I’m distressed that Dean went inside that incredibly disfunctional institution. The Party is happy w/ it’s table scaps, it’s perks and “access”. It doesn’t want to change. It doesn’t like the people it supposedly represents. I increasingly wish the Dean, Feingold, Boxer and Conyers would leave, declare themselves independents and perhaps form a new party w/ Bernie Saunders. It may be past time for “the world’s oldest political party” to be tossed into the dust bin of history alongside the Whigs.
I agree: the question is who is doing the dividing? and it is more about power and class than ideology. Also, I don’t think there is a one-size fits all situations answer. For example, here in Washington state I’m not convinced that a primary challenge to Maria Cantwell is going to strengthen her position against a well-financed “phony moderate,” rovian, Slade Gorton-clone opponent. In Ohio it may be true that Hackett would have had a better shot at unseating DeWine. Another question: who gets to decide? The “grassroots” or the party “leaders”? Can we learn to work together (“leaders” and “grassroots”) anytime soon? Probably not. Oy vey. We need to keep talking about this. Looks like we probably will.
well, these things are supposed to be decided by voters at primaries, and shame on Hackett for not sticking it out, despite all of his tough talk. He blinked.
After all, what do I know? I’m just a storyteller. But here’s what I think:
First off, we here in the netroots are liberal and vocal. Maybe I just hang out at the wrong websites, but I don’t see too many blogs pushing centrist Democrats as a matter of policy. By and large I think those of us on the net are better informed than the populace at large and have a better understanding of the issues and players involved.
Now notice the key phrase there. We are not the populace at large. We are at best a small minority. How many user accounts are there at Big Orange now? Maybe sixty thousand? How many people are on Moveon’s mailing list? Maybe a couple million? OK, a couple million is still impressive, but you have to figure only a percentage of the people on that list are going to take action on any given topic. And that is in a nation of three hundred million people, give or take. We are small potatoes. This is why making a third party will not work; we’ll end up being irrelevant.
So what’s the answer? I keep saying this, because I think it’s true: Infiltrate and subvert. Any military strategist will tell you that it’s much easier to occupy and control any kind of structure once you are already inside than if you attack it from outside. Think of the Trojan horse (storyteller, remember?). Right now over much — maybe most — of the country, the Democratic Party at the local level is either a shell or nonexistent. It wouldn’t take more than a handful of committed netizens to storm the gates and start running the local parties in a manner to encourage more progressive candidates. And when the local parties start doing this, the state parties will get in line, because they’re made up of the local parties. And the national party . . .
This is why I think Howard Dean’s Fifty State Strategy is such dynamite, because if it works as planned that is exactly what will happen. But it will not happen today, and it may not happen next year. I am 50 now, I plan to live at least another 20 years (more, if I can get away with it, but anything after that is gravy) and I hope to see it happen in my lifetime.
Daily Kos pushes “centrist” Republican Trojan Horses all the time (Massa, Casey et al). If he/she used to be Republican, doesn’t give a shit about women’s reproductive freedoms and if he/she used to wear a uniform, kos and his merry band of bullies will push he/she plenty.
Daily Kos is the DEFINITION of centrist.
what part of the title of his own damn book does he not get? CRASH THE GATES. i’m down to crash.
CRASH= get inside the gates and then push back the “rabble”….
How about his diarists and commenters?
My perception is still that the blogosphere in general goes farther left then the public, but hey, I could be wrong, and if I am that just reinforces my point — when compared to the public at large, those who want to move the party to the left make up a tiny portion of the population.
For instance, this one.
Well, I know that is what everybody says, but I don’t see it. It’s one of those cozy little bits of conventional wisdom that no one questions. Most people want, polls show, universal healthcare. Most people think that trade policies that reward outsourcing and moving capital offshore are bad ideas. Most people want to be able to make their own decisions about how to bring life into this world, and how they will leave it. The vast majority of people I know think the cannabis laws are ridiculous. Americans are more progressive than our political establishment, and especially the corporate establishment.
Kos and his pitbulls DHinMI, Delaware Dem, Armando and others are FAR to my right, and I believe to the right of most Americans. On the whole, Americans want a progressive government for themselves and people they know or trust. They appear less so when politicians appeal to their bigotries and hatreds, willing to constrain the rights of others that they want reserved for themselves. If we had a progressive party that actually made the case that it’s best for ALL of us to have the same opportunities and protections, I think we’d see a groundswell that would rival the one that FDR rode to four terms in the White House.
There used to be LOTS of great progressive commenters at dK, especially back before the Presidential primaries. Most of them are gone, either through their own volition or bannings or being zeroed out of being able to post diaries by the little hoards of nasty frat boys. This was a big change from the more open atmosphere that prevailed before dailyKos became just another fundraising and messaging arm of the hacks in the Dem leadership, especially that faux Red State Dem Reid, (who wouldn’t know a progressive policy if it came up and punched him in his shriveled old nads). I believe progressive voices are driven off by design, in service of Reid and his running boys Schumer and Emmanuel.
They killed what once was a good and noble forum, all in the service of the ambitions of a little man who cares NOTHING for ideas, only for “winning”. He should stick to running his fucking sports blogs, b/c that’s all he is: a meathead fanboy who knows nothing about politics or values or a vital and progressive political tradition. He let a bunch of people help him build a brand, and now he’s pissing all over it.
Fuck him.
I live in Texas (as some of you know) and the people that I live and love with, conservative, liberal, libertarian, green , independant and TOTALLY unafilliated are just fucking sick and tired of “elites”, however they fucking define themselves, making decisions for the rest of us — the entirety of polity in the country hasn’t a CLUE.
THAT is where “most Americans” are — hey, R. — I am still in awe of your writing, not here so much any more? Why fore?
I’m spending less time in general online lately. The faux “resistance” of Alito left me generally disgusted and kinda disinterested in the whole thing. Dean’s willingness to go along w/ selling out women has broken my heart. I look at the aftermath of Katrina, at that old hack Reid, and I can only just shake my head and watch Rome burn. We’re headed toward either a long period of slowly rotting inertia or some terrible societal breakdown, and I just can’t watch as closely.
I’m still writing my stuff at Liberal Street Fighter, and I participate some at Media Girl, which I find to be a vital community of very smart women who are genuinely concerned with values and issues I hold dear. That is pretty much the only “community” blog I spend much time at anymore, though I peek in here from time to time.
I think the Scoop communities have been, overall, corrupted by some nasty people with ambitions that are counter to my vision of my country. Not all of them, but I think people who do have some good ideas are being misused by the kos empire, and it’s serving the country, the Democratic Party and progressivism poorly.
There is a disturbing trend, even on the left, toward militarism. I find the personality cults built up around people in uniform VERY disturbing. It’s the UNIFORM that seems to matter, not what people say or do. That CIA spooks, refugee Republicans w/ personal axes to grind, are being giving support by “progressives” bothers me as much as the IWR does. Not my party.
I’m focusing locally, and kinda doing as Marisacat often says: watching with popcorn and opera glasses. It’s a grand tragedy unfolding before us, one which could rival the Depression or the Civil War era. I just can’t watch as closely. It’s hard enough keeping up w/ work and school and putting one foot in front of another.
So turning off the blogs (after I read some of the fantastic ones out there, like Dadahead, Mike the Mad Biologist, Media Girl, Our Word, Roy Bagaent, Sirota, BitchPhd, Pandagon), kicking back and watching movies or playing Area 51 on my Xbox or loading up my mp3 player and rediscovering some old music I hadn’t listened to in years (how did I live without one of these nifty little toys for so long?!?!).
I’m around, and you’re always welcome to pop in at LSF. I hope you and yours are hale and hearty.
You know you shouldn’t look, there is no way to stop the train, and watching it crash is not going to be good for you, but you just can’t turn away.
I’ve felt that way for decades.
Agree with all you’ve said, and although I haven’t felt for decades like DTF, it’s been many a year — see ya around the ‘nets, Madman — you know I love ya!
1 foot and another foot — I hear you! (and thanks, yes, we are hearty and hale, and officially bankrupt! lol)
Drop me an email!@
I don’t think I have your email (though my contacts are a mess … so who knows).
Congrats on your financial “do over”!
If I were one of your contacts I would just be happy not to have been shot and consider being a mess as normal.
😀
to quote my favorite bully:
heh
Many days come to an end and the best reassurance I have of success is the claim ‘It must have been a good day, at least I didn’t get shot’
someone call DKos a righty site. I loved it when it was brand new, because all comments were welcome. But it got hit by the pro-Dean faction and I couldn’t bear to go there any more.
I have stopped by some in the past couple of months, and read some of the stuff. But what hatred you have for them! Wow.
I’m part of the “rest of Americans”. Let’s see how I fit in your predictions of what I am for and against:
Universal healthcare could be sold if it’s marketing as being the most productive, effective use of our resources. But it’s scary. I remember when Oregon tried to explain limited resources, and compared the effectiveness of performing prenatal care for 1,000 pregnant women, versus performing a single open heart surgery for a 75 year old. People screamed that the 75 year old woman was worthwhile as well. This is just as an example. We need to understand that resources ARE limited and choices DO have to be made. But yeah, I think now days folks could be convinced about universal healthcare.
Trade policies are something that are well beyond the understanding of the average American. What they do understand is “outsourcing”. However, they also understand “low prices”. Again, with the tradeoffs, eh? You like cheap TVs? Who is making them? Why?
Reproductive choice – end of life decisions Yes, most people want to be able to make their own choice, because they believe that they would make a wise and compassionate choice. Most people have also been led to believe that other people WON’T make such a wise choice. Many pro-lifers believe that there are women who use abortion rather than preventative measures for birth control. And that sickens them. I am pro-choice. Rather, I am anti-government interference in this very personal choice. Like I am about end-of-life decisions. The government has no place in that decision, IMNSHO.
Cannabis laws I think you’re wrong here. I think things are starting to change, but I think this is a fight that is still pretty far down the road.
Civil Unions/Gay Marriage I think the time is ripe for civil unions. I think gay marriage is a fight that needs more time. I think folks need to realize that families are made up of all kinds of people these days. And two parents are better than one parent, cuz one parent gets pretty goddammed tired. Two men, or two women is better than one of either. Just practically speaking. Give civil unions a couple of decades and gay marriage will be a natural extension.
MOST Americans, IMO, are socially much more liberal than what is being represented by the current regime. However, most Americans also believe that their government doesn’t represent them, and aren’t at all convinced that their single vote will matter much. And most Americans believe, probably rightly so, that the government spends their tax dollars WAY to freely.
Can you form a coalition?
right the US is, note the frequency and passion with which people considered by the mainstream to be “far left” now quote Dwight Eisenhower, a conservative Republican US president of the 1950s.
I started reading and commenting at kos before Scoop. It used to be more diverse and contentious and interesting and OPEN than it is now. Some could blame the Dean followers (of which I was one) … whoever. What happened after Kerry was anointed was what was the beginning of the end. Orthodoxies began to be enforced. Loyalty oaths were demanded. Anybody who didn’t go along was rather strongly ganged up on, and it only got worse after Kerry lost and Kos hitched his little toy train to Reid’s office.
Kos is not liberal or progressive. Most of his front pagers aren’t either. They are generally centrists or center-right Democrats/Reagan Democrats. They care more about policy and winning than they do people.
As for the issues:
It’s interesting that when HMOs or private insurance are discussed, “economies of scale” are always offered as big pluses. Medicare and Medicaide offer MUCH bigger economies of scale, and they used to work until the insurance and pharma lobbyists got their hands on them. Universal Health Care would offer huge economies of scale. Yes, there would be questions of priorities, but there are now. The current system, instead of using a political discussion or doctors determine priorities, uses strongly biased “market” forces that favor the wealthy and the profiteers. We heavily ration healthcare in this country. Go into any poor and working class neighborhood and look at the untreated diabetes, the poorly treated wounds, the undertreated or untreated asthma that is a growing epidemic. We already ration, then we avert our eyes to the suffering. We have created ideal conditions for pandemic w/ the current system. This is a case that could be made, if any political party cared to. Maybe I’m a sucker, but I think that when it comes to it, people want to be compassionate and caring.
I can’t help, when it comes to abortions, that many Americans are misogynists. Many think women who have abortions are sluts, until they or their daughter or their sister needs one. Remind people of that, make the case, and we could push back agaisnt the enforced birthers.
A vast majority of Americans have smoked pot. A vast majority of Americans know from personal experience that it’s “dangers” are vastly overblown. Now, I’m way outside the mainstream in my belief that ALL drugs should be legalized and regulated, but the savings form legalizing Pot, from NOT locking up someone w/ a bag or herb, not to mention the cost of devasting families w/ manditory sentencing, would help a lot of people in our most fragile communities.
As for gay marriage, again I think people are fair and decent, if given the chance. Look at the support for that policewoman in New Jersey who wanted her wife to have her pension! Compassion is one of the finest qualities people possess, and a truly progressive political movement could nurture that. Why do BOTH parties so often appeal only to fear, greed or envy?
I think coalitions are forming. Coalitions of the past only look organized w/ 20/20 hindsight. However, real change, real progressivism will only flower if it operates OUTSIDE the party. I wish Dean had never gone inside … they are sucking the decency right out of him. Change could happen, but it will be hard and it will take the emergence of people with courage. They assassinated the last group that tried … which makes the emergence of new ones only that much harder.
I think a societal collapse will have to happen first, frankly, before Americans shake themselves loose from a system that is failing them. I wish I was more optimistic.
i will simply repeat what i said over at raybin’s post on mlw:
when i first heard about hackett quitting because of the squeeze play, i felt nothing but sorrow. what chance does democracy have if the dem insiders are going to continue manipulating the system and ignoring the actual campaigning, getting one’s message out, primaries and voting?
what the insiders did to hackett’s contributors sounded positively rovian to me. and if the dems are continually operating on the repubbbs level, well, (and don’t get mad at me for saying this folks) it only reminds me of nader’s complaint that the two parties are just one party.
and i read kos and bowers and why it was only smart strategy for this to happen, and i still felt like i was manipulated without my say (i speak figuratively; i am nowhere near ohio, i couldn’t vote for hackett if i wanted to).
ok, so hackett didn’t have a chance in hell. so brown would have been the smarter choice for progressives.
then f*cking let the system work, and cull hackett out of the process!!!
to scramble behind the scenes so drastically keeping money from a no-win candidate so the might-win candidate gets richer smacks of desperation.
it’s no surprise that the grass/netroots are discouraged. what’s the point of getting involved, if the powers-that-be behind the doors in the smokefilled rooms are the only ones that count?
and for kos and bowers to make excuses for it shows just where they are. not with us. with them. the manipulators.
please. let’s try democracy for once. just once. see how it goes. whaddya say, huh?
note: i wrote the above on my left wing before i read chris’s post on mydd in detail. i have since gone back to my left wing and corrected my impression that chris was carrying water for the powers-that-be. i therefore take back any insinuations i made about chris bowers kow-towing to the insiders. mea culpa.