Hello Boomaners!
I hope all is going well with all of you…
I have been debating and considering enrollment in the New York Institute of Photography; one of the oldest and best photography schools in the U.S. and, by general acclaim, the best distant learning photography school. The thing is that I am not sure if distant learning in such a hands-on-tools business as photography will be a good decision to act on, especially for someone without a solid background in the field. Has anybody enrolled in an online photography class? Did it work for you? What were the best and worst aspects of such an experience? Do you know anybody who has enrolled in the NY institute I am telling you about?
Diane has explained to me that there are many photographers and other people passionate about photography writing for Booman Tribune who could have some good advice on this…
Your advice, suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated…
Thank you!
33 Comments
GO FOR IT
expeience is the best teacher, and beleive me, failure is only a step in the right direction…keep shooting, and let your creative side guide you…you won’t loose…
peace be with you
YAY! Thank you..I needed that nudge!!!
Hey IP, good to see your name again. Quit lurking & post more often 😉
Thank You! I’ll do my best to do a better job posting…
the only way to learn photography is to do it, IMO…buy a good camera and learn how to use it…make mistakes…learn, make more mistakes…learn some more…repeat as necessary.
it’s a life long process, if my experience is any indication.
read what you can (there’s an immense amount of material on the intertube, as well as more books than I care to contemplate.
IMS, you’re at KU, go to the art school…I’d bet they have courses in photography…avail yourself of the options that are close at hand…personal interaction/critique of your work/input will never be replaced by online classes….
my 2¢
just start taking pictures!
BINGO…bro…good advice
when I was in grad school, the arch dept darkrm was a total snafu…chemicals always contaminated, equip broken…a very long list.
as luck would have it, and thanks to an introduction to the folks in charge, the art school building was across the street and I started using the dkrm there. can’t begin to tell u how much I learned hangin’ out over there w/out taking any classes…
alas, I haven’t had dkrm access for a very long time…which, unfortunately, actually forced me to give up B&W (film) photography, my true love…but now, I’m learning again; Digital…making lots of mistakes..trying to directly translate 30 + yrs of film experience to the D platform has it’s drawbacks.
btw, glad to have yer bad self back around the pond
peace, bro
Yes I have to say you were lucky there!
Dark room has both a literal and figurative sense! It is completely dark for me because I have absolutely no experience there! Even when I briefly worked for Reuters everything was digital – perhaps excessively digital!
How different is traditional photography from digital one? What are these drawbacks you refered to? Are you studying under a tutor pointing those “mistakes” out to you?
Thank you for your post…
One of the things which NYIP promises is that you DO need a camera, but it doesn’t have to be an outrageously expensive one! I have a escent Lumix Panasonic 4.0 mega pixels digital camera that I am absolutely NOT crazy about! But I figured it should be enough for this course…
How important do you think is the camera itself for producing good pictures? Would you say it’s a 50/50 ration between good cameras and other prerequisites?
Can you recommend some of those books you mentioned?? There is an awful lot of books and other publications that could really get a beginner’s head spinning!!!
I went to the art school and there is not even a single photography class there. Last semester I audited in one class that was available :”History of Photography”, but it was an undergraduate class so it was only for my benefit and enjoyment – no credits taken…
The NYIP provide each student with a personal instructor who will be available on the phone and via email and who will also assign different photographic projects for me to complete…The thing is that I am not sure if such tutoring can be a good substitute for a live instructor…maybe I am wrong there…
It is not so important what camera you have as it is to understand and exploit the limitations and capabilities of it. If you expect a 4 megapixel digital camera to capture subtle lighting and highly detailed images, you will fail every time. But if you can imagine how to use the lower resolution and dynamic response to your advantage, you can get good photos within those limitations and even make real art! Of course, it is always best to have the best equipment you can possibly afford and then if you want to set it for a low resolution or high contrast image, you still have that option if you want it.
down page…I also have a copy of the, quite old now, Time/Life series on Photography, which, while very basic, is a very good primer.
As to the difficulties I’m experiencing, most of them are learning curve type issues, and getting as comfortable w/ the new equip and it’s capabilities. I have several good friends who are very accomplished photogs and they have been very patient w/ me so far.
Also, the “post-production” programs…photoshop, aperture, etc… continue to be a source of great frustration…due in no small part to my ludditian tendencies.
But, and I cannot stress this enough, the really important thing is to take a lot of pictures…whoever commented below about 1 or 2 or 3 good ones, ie: one’s you’d be proud to show, is doing really well…and the really nice thing about the digtital’s…no film expense.
Good luck!
found THIS SITE while looking for a series of books by by Ansel Adams and Robt. Baker…The Camera, The Negative, and The Print.
Very highly recommended.
That series of books is definitely the “gold standard”, but should probably be saved for after you are an intermediate level photographer or better, I think. Also Ansel Adams’ classic The Zone System (or an updated version of The Zone System by any number of different authors) is a must read and practice book for any advanced photographer. Although the concepts and work in that book apply directly to film, they are also useful to the digital photographer. The same could be said for all film techniques and darkroom experience.
I still run a B&W darkroom and I am convinced (and most others who see my portfolio are, too) that that’s where I do my very best work.
Just a few words to assuage your self-deprecatory tendencies concerning Photoshop – The learning curve is HUUUUGE!
As a matter of fact, I’ve never met anyone who says that they know everything there is to know about it. I’ve been working seriously with Photoshop since version 3.0 years and years ago, and I still find new stuff and new ways to do the same old things, but slightly better, ALL the time – not to mention the constant flood of new version updates and new ‘plug-ins’ written by everyone and his sister…
The best advice I can give on this is to know your camera and get the very best out of it when you snap the shutter – then Photoshop ‘skills’ are a lot less important. With VERY few exceptions, you can’t photoshop a bad photo and magically turn it into a good one.
With VERY few exceptions, you can’t photoshop a bad photo and magically turn it into a good one.
…unless, of course, some sort of photoshop technique is what you saw in your mind’s eye when you snapped the shutter in the first place. 😉
I think it depends on your learning style. If you are comfortable learning things out of a book you will be able to learn from a good online course. Most of my learning about photography came out of books and magazines (and still does). This type of learning has weaknesses, though. I think the worst one is if you are stuck on something simple. A word or two from a knowledgeable teacher could save you hours of frustration. (But I bet you could show up in the Froggy Bottom Cafe/Lounge at almost any time of day or night and find someone who could help 🙂 )
Blueneck as usual I think you’re rght.
Thank you for your post…
When I successfully learened a new language (Italian) completely from books and software and without any live interaction with neither an instructor or a native speaker I came to believe that I can learn anything in the exact same way.So yeah, to a good extent, I would say yes: I can learn entirely from books. But I wanted to double-check my belief when I decided I wanted to learn more about photography.
So you have benefitted from books and magazines? Any notable ones for me to begin with? Have you enrolled in any photography classes or workshops – real or online? Was there a big difference??
I have never taken an online photo class, but I have taken one photography class in college and I found it pretty much useless. It was geared to photographers who already had some experience, and the interaction and ‘criticism’ offered by the class and the professor were not all that helpful to me, as I had already developed a style and knew what I wanted. Experience and a desire to learn good composition is more important than anything else, in my opinion.
I think there are two essential photo magazines these days, though most of what you want from them is available online. One is Shutterbug for equipment evaluations and ‘tips and tricks’ and the other is Aperture for a good look at recent trends in photography and examples of good photography. I subscribe to the print edition of Aperture because I think it is important to actually view high quality prints of photos in order to get a really good understanding of them. Even the best computer monitors are not as capable of showing a photo’s strengths and weaknesses as even a high quality magazine print can show them. Of course, it is even better to see real finished prints in order to judge them completely, but a high quality magazine can get close. There are other magazines devoted completely to tips and tricks in Adobe Photoshop software that can be helpful, if you use that software. I don’t have a favorite one of those, I just check the magazine rack at the bookstore to see if they have any useful tips for me in the recent issue. I would recommend that you spend some time at a good magazine rack looking through the various photo magazines and decide what seems to be helpful for you.
Here is my list of Seven Things to do to Improve Your Photography. Perhaps you will find it to be helpful.
And about number 7, I make it a habit to study the old masters of painting and of photography in person at as many art and photo galleries as I can find when traveling. Pay careful attention to how they treat the “four walls” or edges of the canvas or the photo frame. And don’t be afraid to decide what you do and don’t like about the old masters. I like Rembrandt and Monet, but I find quite a lot of what passes for great art to be boring or banal or badly composed, but that’s just me… For photographers, Steichen, Stieglitz, Cartier-Bresson, Strand, Weston, etc. Some of their stuff seems ordinary to me, but their great photos are truly works of art, and it isn’t always their most popular or well-recognized photos that are their best art, either.
One good book that I think every artist should have a copy of on their shelf is Wassily Kandinsky‘s “Point and Line to Plane”. For ten bucks in paperback, it is the cheapest and best way I’ve found to stretch my composition skills. You don’t even have to read it, just look at the illustrations. You don’t have to agree with it either, just look at it and think!
Another excellent book, now in its fifth edition, is Handbook of Photography, by Ronald P. Lovell. It really does cover all the basic concepts well and it is well illustrated, too. It is often used as a text for college courses.
If I think of other good books, I’ll let you know, but I think there are lots of them, both for technique and for composition. Go to a good bookstore and/or library and spend some serious time looking at the books about photography and painting. Also spend time looking at the books of photographs of different subjects by different photographers and find someone whose work you really like.
Well, that’s about all the advice I have to give other than to say “Get out there and take lots of photos!”
Oh, just one more thing. Most good photographers will be honest and tell you that one of the biggest secrets to great photography is to throw most of your work in the garbage. Only a true master will ever show more than a few shots out of a hundred they’ve taken. That’s because part of getting that great photo is experimentation and part of it is luck, no matter how well prepared you are.
Thank you for your wonderful post – really inspiring!
We discussed most of the masters (including Kadinsky) you refered to in the American art class that I took last semester. It was truly insightful. And yes, 9 times out of 10 there is a feeling that you are looking at an “ordinary” work, but once you look closer or bring into the observation the artists’s background and intention it instantly becomes evident just how magnificent the works are. I like Stieglitz a lot and his photography of New York City is absolutely amazing.
I agree with you 100% when you talk about the importance of learning to look intelligently at paintings in order to be able to produce good photography. I can’t remember just how many times I gazed upon the works of landscape dutch masters and felt a surge of inspiration for a similar photo…
Thank you for the tips, books and websites…Keep sharing those!
I think, if you are a self-directed sort of person, an on-line course may be able to give you an overview of the technical skills required, but if you want some immersion in photography in an artistic sense, I can’t see how anything beats critiques you can get enrolling as a photography major in an art dept.
there’s something about being taught directly by other human beings…
now, I say this as a non-photographer art student who works in a university art department. I see great stuff from both our graduate & undergraduate students. And if you happen to live in california, the price isn’t bad.
Thank you for your post…
Exactly! That’s what prompted me to post my questions here – the feeling that there’s something different about a one-on-one learning experience, especially in a field such as photography…
No I am not on the West Coast. I am in Lawrence, Kansas attending the University of Kansas here. Our Fine Arts department does not have any photography classes (One of the reasons provided was that enrollment levels over the past years was rather low!). Last semester I audited in an undergraduate course in the History of Photography.
Are you teaching an art major?
Hava BA & MA in Art History, and am now pursuing BA/BFA studio art, in the university in which I am employed.
Oh–another suggestion for people of lesser means–many colleges & universities offer a tuition waiver to their employees. In my particular situation, I work full time, get 3 approved hours off a week to attend classes and save approximately $1,040.00 a semester on tuition. Usually just take one 3 unit class a semester, but could take up to 6 units for the same price. (but I’m realistic and art classes are work intensive) That route may take longer, but who wants to owe student loan debt for a degree without economic guarantees. (Been there already!)
Sangreal, a well set-up and maintained dark room and digital imaging lab is a must. Without it, you are not going to be able to both learn the basis and experament.
I got my BFA in photography at the University of New Mexico, which not only has a world-class photo program, they have a photo library only second to the Library of Congress, and they have a Photo History department that was founded by Beaumont Newhall – the founder of Photo History as a distinct disipline.
The Rotchester Institue has excellent facilities. As do many other photo specialty schools.
I’ve used other photo labs at other colleges that were poorly equiped, and it sucked.
BTW, where are you located? Maybe I could help you find a more local program.
Wow! I didn’t know that the University of New Mexico enjoys such an amazing status! It will definitely be on my must-see academic institutions. When I took the American art class last semester we discussed New Mexico a lot as an art colony and a fascinating attraction for landscape painters and photographers.
I am in lawrence, Kansas attending the University of kansas here. There are some good photography workshops in Kansas City, but that’s not quite a good option for me so far..
So after a degree in Photography, is it your dream career yet? What kind of jobs and activities do you do as a photography graduate? Do you think that photography graduates go into careers different from those who have learned photography non-academically?
How much have you learned in the photography department as opposed to what you have learned from personal experience? What’s your take (or your school’s) – maybe if you are still in contact with professors from such a prestigious photography school you could do me the favor of looking into their take on such online classes…
Gee, I ask a lot of questions!
Any kind of education should include as much input as possible in that field as well as related disciplines. I would not limit myself to an online course any more than I would limit myself to a school of photography.
Studying other peoples work in the varied fields of photography, ie: black & white, color action, still lifes, nature, colors, adverts, anger, poverty,
love, war, peace, & your life experiences are very good teachers. The final solution to becoming a photographer is to take pictures.
Thank you for your post – very inspirational!
I think you told me pretty much what I wanted to hear!
What kind of photography do you do?
You`re welcome. If you want to see some of my images I have four diaries in this years FoToFair with about three dozen entries. I have many different interests , but you should go look at them. I`d put a link in but I`m not sure if it would work so I`m linking , in hope it works.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2006/10/30/0381/9751
Do a search online of B&W photography, as well as color, and you will find many artists that will give you some ideas.
Be sure to check out Clyde Butcher, some amazing B&W work, I’ve been to his dark room, and met the family, what a fantastic trip it is.
I remember what his wife and I laughed about as we were talking about his workshops he holds. She said when people come into the workshop class and show him their camera, he usually says, “throw it in the trash and get a real camera”
You see, clyde is a purist, and old film man and still uses the old manual types of equipment. Guess that’s why they loved my 1800’s and early 19th century gear…LOL
Don’t take me wrong, digital is getting better daily, but as you can probably tell, I’m an ol’ school type of guy ; ) Understanding the darkroom is a must for the final goal you seek.
Good luck, and I wish you well upon your journey.
Peace… Wado
I’ve taught myself to paint over the last 25 years or so. But there are many things that I’ve never learned to this day because I never took classes. Take a live class if you can, or online classes if you must. There is just no substitute for live feedback. And I would agree, keep taking photos and look carefully at the work of others.
Hi Dena, what a surprise to see your diary here today! I am glad you took my advice because as you see you are getting a lot of good feedback and you have even gotten Infidelpig to emerge to inform you and I know from past conversations with him he has a long history of photography.
Also many other members as I suspected have a lot to offer and experience to share, yay for Boomaners.
I would like to throw in here, Dena, your other consideration and that is financial, would members who have said yes to online course still say yes if you factor in the cost, which will cause you some burden financially. Value vs cost ratio.
Yes, cost is a serious issue for most of us. If the online course is too expensive, sangreal79 might be better off joining a local photo club (most every city or university has one) and spending her money on a better camera or printer or on good books and magazines.
It’s also possible to find good workshops given by a local camera store in most cities. In my town, we have a local college that offers photography classes at night as part of their “adult enrichment” program and it is open to members of the community for a relatively small fee.