If the report is accurate, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Tom Lantos offended a delegation of Dutch lawmakers by telling them:
“Europe was not as outraged by Auschwitz as by Guantanamo Bay.”
And:
“You have to help us, because if it was not for us you would now be a province of Nazi Germany.”
Lantos is a Hungarian survivor of the Holocaust. I can understand if he still has lingering bitterness. He might work on his diplomatic skills some, but I don’t really care that he lost his patience. And Lantos is no apologist for Guantanamo Bay…he probably lacks tolerance for sanctimony. I’m more interested in the right-wing cheerleading of Lantos’ comments. Of course, Lantos telling the Dutch that they have to help us because without us they would be a province of Nazi Germany is akin to calling the French ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys.’ It’s a variety of the ‘perpetual debt’ argument. Conservatives love this argument but it is not very compelling. What’s more interesting is the narrative they tell themselves.
Let’s talk about NATO, shall we? After liberating half of Europe in World War II, we set up NATO to protect that half from the Soviets. We did so because we did not want to have to climb through a bunch of sand and barbed wire again to take back the European continent from cheap-ass dictators.
About 10 years ago, the rest of NATO decided to bomb Yugoslavia — using our bombs, of course — to prevent the holocaust of some Islamic people. We went in. Slobodan Milosevic was no world threat, but any time we can liberate a people, we should do it.
The history here is basically accurate. But should we really ‘liberate’ people anywhere we ‘can’? Let’s break this down.
Who is ‘we’?
What is ‘liberation’?
What does ‘can’ mean in this context?
If ‘we’ means America, and America largely alone, that is going to limit the last category. We ‘can’ ‘liberate’ Grenada fairly easily. Can we liberate the Tibetans? For progressives ‘we’ means the international community, especially working through institutions like NATO and the United Nations. For conservatives, ‘we’ means America, and only America.
When we talk about ‘liberating’ people we tend to think of Eastern Europe, where millions were freed from Soviet domination, or of Western Europe from the yoke of Nazi Germany. But, as we have seen in Iraq, taking down a dictator does not automatically produce happier results. The Iraqis may be able to vote, but they can’t walk safely on their own streets. Conservatives tend not to think too deeply about such complexities. ‘We’ (in the conservative sense) ‘liberated’ the Iraqis from Saddam’s rule. That was something that ‘we’ ‘could’ do. But it didn’t amount to real liberation. That was something we could not do.
America likes to think of itself as THE GREAT LIBERATOR, and given our enormous sacrifices in the first half of the 20th-Century, with some justification. But there is no reason why we should shoulder the costs and risks of ‘liberating’ people alone. Too often, as in Panama, our imperial motives are clothed in an humanitarian guise. The liberal insight, after both World Wars, was that collective security was the best way to secure the peace and manage the costs of war. And collective security is not something ‘we’ can do alone. It’s also not about ‘liberating’ people, but protecting each other from expansionist empires.
When it comes to decisions on intervention, the most important question is whether we ‘can’ do what we want to accomplish. If ‘we’ can’t do it then can a larger, international ‘we’ do it? And, if even the international community can’t do it, or won’t do it, then it should not be attempted.
Whenever people bring up the tragedy in Darfur, for example, I ask myself these questions. And, so far, I have not been satisfied that the international community can or will do what it takes to bring peace and security to that region. Therefore, I currently oppose sending American troops to Darfur.
These are the same questions that conservatives should have asked themselves before invading Iraq. Would the Iraqis benefit from Saddam’s downfall, or would they turn on each other? Could we accomplish our goals without the support and manpower of the international community? Insofar as there was a humanitarian component to the invasion of Iraq, was it something that America alone had some moral obligation to tackle?
But the conservatives don’t ask such questions. To them, America is supposed to intervene anytime, anywhere people are being oppressed. To them, this is what makes, and has made, our country great.
It’s an odd fact that this position used to be entirely contrary to the conservative mindset. Sometimes I think we will never stop paying for winning World War Two. It gave a false sense of moral superiority and capability. ‘Hubris’ is the best word to describe it.
Tom Lantos and the conservative interventionists need to check their hubris.
First of all, Lantos is a torture apologist. Secondly, The comparison of terrorists in Guantanamo as being the Nazis is well of base. If anybody should be compared with the Nazis then it should be this administration.
Also, I find this problematic: “When we talk about ‘liberating’ people we tend to think of… Western Europe from the yoke of Nazi Germany”
Liberating Wetern Europe was a joint effort. The Soviets suffered a great loss, probably greater than the US in reaching Berlin (and by the way, before the US did) Also England, France (and the resistance) and a host of other countries participated in that joint effort.
Tom Lantos is my representative. He has been a stalwart regarding social and labor issues, but he’s been an interventionist is just about everything the corporatists have wanted. If Europeans seem to be more upset about Guantanamo today it’s because it’s happening now.
“Never forget” should be accompanied by an understanding that the forces that caused the Holocaust are still killing people. The need to fight fascism didn’t stop with WWII. The Americans who supported the fascists (the Dulleses, Harrimans, the Bushes) have molded America to be the monster to replace Germany. Killing for wealth and power, the psychopathic greed that drove corporations in the forties, is still working its magic. If Tom Lantos can’t recognize that then he has failed the millions who died at the hands of the Nazis.
moral intervention- The historical excuse for the taking of someone elses products, territory, personal rights. This has been the justification used throughout history by the takers. And what makes the usa unique is that the usa is the greatest taker in the history of the world.
Now don’t give me the bullshit about Rome or the Turkemons or the Chinese. Just look. I said- LOOK!
Humanitarian Intervention my ass.Product and territory. Oh, and by the way, morality that was the “Wrong” morality.
Someone might want to list the actions but not me. I know them and at my age- who gives a shit. Lantos was and is a fool and he is stooging for others. The game goes on.
One last point worth noting- The “conservative” is also being screwed over as well as us “Progressives”!
They loves them some Milosevich, don’t they?
Could it be because a Democrat, Bill Clinton, had the guts to deal with a national security issue? And it was one, relative to NATO and Greece and Turkey and… Have Wesley Clark explain it to you.
Oh, and by the way, it was successful. And it also prevented al Quaeda from gaining a foothold in Bosnia.
You are exactly on target about how nations, including the US use “liberation” as a front for imperialism. After all, Hitler claimed he was “liberating” the German people who lived in the Sudetenland and in western Poland and even in Russia. By the time he got to Paris, even German sympathizers saw the argument as a stretch.
“Sometimes I think we will never stop paying for winning World War Two”
Ya’ think?
We won with mass mobilization and canny leadership. Not, because we were some blessed people. I am ashamed for writing this, due to some programming of my reptilian lobe.
Jeebus wept!
C
ps Fuck Tom Brockaw!!!!
Did some people miss a big chunk of US history in the fifty years after WWII? Remind me how many dictators the US (with their little European puppies following along) supported in the fight against communism? Let’s start with Franco and Salazar and work our way through the Middle East and South America, into Africa and South East Asia. And this is the great fucking liberator?
I guess that cattle prods applied to the cervix only hurt if they’re administered by Commies.
Can we liberate the Tibetans?
Even if we could, the Free Tibet crowd seems to want to reinstall the theocratic dictatorship of the lamas.
I’m not wholly opposed to interventionism in certain restricted circumstances, but could we please restore liberal democracy in America first? At the very least, it would give greater weight to our attempts to get despotic states to join the free world if we ourselves were part of that world.
I’m sick of this PNAC “Great Constabulary” meme, I really am. The only thing America ever “liberated” were lands inhabited by others for the use of European descendants bearing the red, white and blue.
I don’t care what the History Channel shows 24/7, the majority of the fighting and dying was done by NON-Americans in World War 2. Even bloodthirsty paranoid Stalin got THAT one right.
Maybe someone ought to ask Poland, Greece, Czech Republic and Italy what they think about America’s role in “liberating” them post-war. God, especially Poland! What a colossal betrayal.
And thanks for “liberating” Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, East Timor, Haiti (multiple times), Venezuela (oops), Iran, Argentina, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba (oops) and dozens of other countries post WW2! Wow gee thanks!
If you want to liberate someone, liberate the people of Saudi Arabia from their 7th century mindset lunatic “royal” family. Piece of cake.
Peace
In a crushing rebuttal to this essay, Dan Sulber responds:
I think he mistook Gitmo for Abu Ghraib.