It doesn’t matter to me why a “crazed” or “evil” (take your pick) individual walked into an immigration services center in Binghamton, New York and shot and killed 14 people seemingly at random. Just like it doesn’t matter to me why the kids at Columbine wanted to kill their whole school, or the Virginia Tech shooter wanted to to shoot as many of his fellow students and faculty members as he could before dying, or why the man in Alabama who killed 11 people thought it was a good idea to go on a revenge rampage. Or why anyone decides to take a gun and shoot a spouse, girlfriend or themselves. Discerning the motivations or reasons why people kill each other with firearms is, in the end, a fruitless endeavor. For this is the society we’ve chosen.
We’ve chosen to live in a society where firearms, both the legal and illegal varieties, are ubiquitous. We’ve chosen to allow a single issue special interest group to promote laws (and heavily fund the campaigns of politicians who support their agenda) that make it easier than ever for anyone to buy, carry and use firearms of all kinds, from small caliber concealable pistols to large caliber machine guns.
We’ve also chosen to live in a society where gun manufacturers benefit from legal loopholes in the limited gun control laws we do have on the books which enable a vast criminal underground black market in illegal guns to exist, a market which easily allows criminals and minors to acquire assault rifles, semi-automatic pistols and other firearms.
“Leaders in the [firearms] industry have long known that greater industry action to prevent illegal transactions is possible,” [Robert A. Ricker, a former chief lobbyist and executive director of the American Shooting Sports Council] said, particularly through a network of manufacturers’ representatives who stay in close touch with dealers. But industry officials have “resisted taking constructive voluntary action,” he said, and have “sought to silence others within the industry.”
This has resulted in a “see-no-evil, hear-no-evil approach,” Mr. Ricker said, and encouraged “a culture of evasion of firearms laws and regulations.”
We’ve chosen to live in a society where murderous gangs of foreign and domestic drug dealers can obtain almost any weapon made in America by using straw purchasers to go to unregulated gun shows to buy these weapons and the ammunition needed to equip their private armies.
Because Mexican gun laws are so restrictive and very few Mexican citizens are allowed to own or sell guns, the traffickers purchase most of their weapons in the U.S. where the laws are more lenient and federal firearms agents are stretched woefully thin. (Several sources have said that along the entire 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexican border, there are fewer than 100 federal firearms agents currently working weapons smuggling cases.)
On too many occasions, Mexican police have been simply out-gunned and overrun by the well-armed drug gangs. Just last week, the police chief in Juarez, Mexico, resigned after the drug traffickers began to make good on their threat to methodically kill his officers one by one if he didn’t quit.
Federal, state and local public officials, as well as soldiers and journalists, are also targeted by the traffickers as they fight to defend and spread their narcotics operations. Innocent bystanders are often caught in the crossfire.
We’ve chosen to live in a society which has turned a blind eye to the fact that our nation leads the developed world in homicides, suicides and other deaths caused by firearms, as well as non-fatal gun injuries, by a large margin. Even nations racked by poverty and criminal gangs such as Brazil and Mexico have a lower per capita rate of deaths caused by firearms than our nation.
And we’ve chosen to live in a society which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to sue gun manufacturers for the deaths and misery their “business practices” and their “products” have caused.
WASHINGTON — New York City’s nine-year lawsuit accusing gun makers of flooding illicit markets with their firearms came to an end on Monday, when the United States Supreme Court refused to consider a lower court’s dismissal of the case. […]
The appeals court had overturned a decision by Judge Jack B. Weinstein of Federal District Court in Brooklyn, who ruled in 2005 that the suit could proceed despite protests by gun makers like Beretta U.S.A., Browning Arms, Colt Manufacturing, Glock and Smith & Wesson. The gun companies had complained that a federal law passed just two months earlier shielded them from such suits.
The law, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, bans most suits against the firearms industry. A narrow exception allows suits when a gun maker or dealer has knowingly violated state or federal statutes in sales and marketing practices — by knowingly selling a weapon to someone who fails a criminal background check, for example.
This is the society we’ve chosen. Don’t ask why this wave of mass killings by firearms continues in our country. Don’t ask why people can acquire a gun and kill you, your family or themselves with it easier than they can obtain a driver’s license. It doesn’t really matter why. There will always be people in any society whose hatred or anger or sociopathic personality traits or just the evil which lurks in everyone’s soul will lead them to commit violence against others and themselves. So don’t ask why they do it.
What you should be asking is why we have chosen to live in a society which makes it so easy for these people to acquire deadly firearms with which to commit violence, mayhem and murder? Because, that is the only question that really matters.
If we banned all firearms then we would find that we have a knife or machete problem, and if we banned all blades then we’d find that we have a baseball bat problem. The root problem is man’s total depravity as illustrated by his inhumanity toward his fellow man – you can remove all of the external means for people to kill one another and they will simply learn martial arts.
We can certainly use tragedies to push our pet causes – justifiable causes in many instances – but the root cause is what we ought to focus on, and in this case it is the utter depravity of mankind, not the weapons of choice used to express that depravity.
Fair enough.
You got a solution to the depravity problem?
I don’t.
I do have a solution to the unregulated gun show problem. Regulate them the same as any other seller of firearms.
I do have a solution to the straw man making large purchases problem. Limit the number of weapons anyone can buy and over a certain amount per year/mo/week/ whatever and make the registration requirements extremely stringent.
I do have a solution for the gun industry skating away from the issue of selling guns wholesale to corrupt dealers who sell guns to criminals and minors thus creating a black market in illegal guns which (obviously) benefits the bottom line of the gun manufacturers. Make them strictly liable for any illegal sales by distributors. That would force them to either get insurance or stop selling to dealers who they have reason to believe are evading the laws and regulations regarding the sale and registration of firearms.
I have a solution to the problem of people who “legally” buy guns for delivery people who can’t buy them themselves (minors, felons, etc.). Make them criminally liable for any crime committed with the gun that they purchased on someone else’s behalf.
I have some solutions to those problems. I don’t have a solution to the problem of man’s depravity. But if you do, I’d be glad to hear it.
A depraved insane guy with a knife can still only kill people within arms’ reach, one at a time.
A depraved person with a handgun can kill 6 in 1 minute.
A depraved person with an AK-47 can kill 20 in a minute.
Depravity is overrated.
The motive is irrelevant. The means are all that matters.
You can’t kill 13 people in 5 minutes with a baseball bat, and it is moronic to even suggest that. The issue with guns is that you convert your intent into death with the squeeze of a trigger, and with today’s technology, you can kill 30 in 4 minutes using high-capacity replacement magazines.
Desire, shit on that. It is not desire, it is MECHANICAL KILLING ABILITY.
Any equation of guns with clubs is moronically stupid. It is the rate of killing, the killing over distance (you can kill someone 3 ft, 4 ft, 20 ft, and sometimes farther), and you can’t do that with a club or knife.
So your comment is idiotic.
For the baseball bat, 2 people killed one with clubs.
FOr the knife attack, you present no examples of anything like killing 13 in 3 minutes with knives.
For the machete, he injured 3, and killed none.
So none of your examples are worth a tinker’s damn.
Guns are rapid-fire killing machines where you can kill repeatedly. I could take a gun and kill 100 people very quickly. I would take two guns, and take high-capacity replacement magazines. I would carry 6-8 magazines. I would go to a high-volume club after dark, where I could not be seen easily. I would fire rapidly, and I could easily kill 100 people in 10 minutes. Easily,
NO FUCKING WAY WITH A MACHETE. ANY SUCH SUGGESTION IS STUPID.
How many people killed does it take to constitute a travesty?
What the fuck are you talking about?
A massacre is usually 5 or more.
Find some relevant examples. Surely your NRA sources have better examples than the weak shit you are pulling up so far.
Two things:
First, I’m not arguing against gun control – I’m for gun control. I would have no problem with a comprehensive assault weapon and handgun ban. I’m arguing against false cause – the availability of guns didn’t cause this event, and this post framed it that way.
Second, one person killed is a travesty – mass murder makes the headlines and gets everyone’s attention, but every day people are murdered, and each one is a travesty. It doesn’t take 5 – one is too many.
Yes, it would be preferable if there were no guns (or knives or swords or crossbows or…or…or…) but if that is to happen then you can’t argue that weapons cause crimes.
What bullshit, Oscar. I’m disappointed in you.
The point of the post is not that the availability of weapons (of a certain kind) caused the event, but that it made the event possible.
The person who claims that weapons (of this or that type) cause crimes never existed. That person is merely the NRA’s favorite invented straw man.
Finally, the use of bold face for “cause” neither enhances the cogency of your miserable reasoning nor conceals the distortive character of your rhetoric.
What crap to argue that it is depravity. As I and Steven clearly indicated, depravity is bullshit indeed.
In point of fact, it is nothing but weapons which cause the problem. Because MOTIVE is stupid to evaluate. These guys are mostly IRRATIONAL and UNSANE. They don’t think in rational terms. They are UNSANE.
What is left is the presense of high-caliber, high-speed, high-capacity weapons. That’s ALL that matters. The ability to kill at distance, in high numbers, without being strong, clever, or smart is what the issue is.
At Virginia Tech, and many of the massacres lately, the feature which has been most important has been high-capacity magazines. The killer filled many magazines with rounds, and was able to swap these in quickly. That SINGLE issue is more responsible than any other for the massacres.
All the depravity in the world without high capacity weapons would result in 1 or 2 deaths. So depravity is stupid to push. I am shocked that anyone would consider it the key factor. For the NRA, it is. But the NRA has an agenda.
can I politely request that you advance your arguments with a little more respectful tone?
The NUMBER IS the issue. Yes, it does matter that it is 4 or more. And no, it is not equally tragic. It is more tragic that more are dead.
I could take a kitchen knife and go to certain places and kill 1, maybe two persons. I’m not a monster of strength, and I would get struck down. But with a gun, I could go to many places and easily kill 20-30-40. Easily. Carry high-capacity magazines and change them fast.
So, it’s simply stupid again to argue that 1 is tragic, 2 are tragic, 1 million are tragic. 1 IS tragic, but 2 is much more, and 13 are horrible beyond the pale. Numbers are important, and again, it is stupid to argue that they are not.
At least some wacky people need to maintain the illusion that they can defend themselves should the government come calling in some kind of twisted Ruby Ridge/Waco scenario. Of course in bizarro world, the fact that a few guns would be useless is never considered.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/04/pittsburgh.officers.shot/index.htm
An AK-47 was used two of the officers were shot in the head. There has to be some answer. I believe our murder rate per 100,000 is higher than the Great Britain. The knife “attacks” as opposed to gun “murders”.
Here’s my comment on that story: LINK
“Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.”
Between the NRA, and the politicians the NRA owns, there is no sense whatsover of responsibility or sanity regarding our so-called “gun laws.”
With the talking heads” on television shrieking that, “Obama is going to take away our guns,” with politicains passing “gun-friendly laws” that provide for no safegurds or oversite-I can’t figure out why horrific events like Binghampton startle most Americans.
The Lou Dobbs’s of the world eat this stuff up with a spoon. They focus people on specific groups for retaliation-and this is what you get-in a country that is as heavily armed as this county is. It is-sadly-to be expected isn’t it?