As many people on the Left have noted, progressive activists are hamstrung in their ability to advocate for health care reform because we don’t have a final product to point to and say “these are the good things in the bill that will benefit you.” And, yes, that is almost entirely Sen. Max Baucus’s (D-MT) fault because his committee has not only failed to produce a bill, but all the rhetoric surrounding the Finance Committee’s work is about the ways in which their bill will differ from all the others. Instead of a surtax on millionaires, they want to tax the luxury health care plans. Instead of a government run public option, they want privately run co-ops, etc.
The unruly anti-health care reform crowds that are disrupting town hall meetings all across the country are manned by people who don’t even know the specifics of what they’re protesting. How do I know that? Because I don’t even know the specifics of what they are protesting. And I think that’s a key issue when it comes to debating the degree to which these protesters are just expressing their First Amendment rights.
It’s a complicated issue. There is plenty of reporting that these protesters are being mobilized by Glenn Beck’s 912 Project, Rush Limbaugh, and certain astroturfing organizations. It’s completely legitimate to oppose legislation and to adopt plans to use social action to defeat it. Making sure that your activists know where town hall meetings are being held and that they turn out in numbers to express their opinion is pretty standard political activity. This is one way that a vocal minority can expand its influence and there is nothing suspect about it.
But, there are problems with this movement. The primary problem is that their strategy involves disruption and, to some degree, intimidation. You have the right to petition your government for the redress of grievances, but it’s not clear that you have the right to cause disturbances that prevent others from doing so. Just because you have the right to attend a public meeting (subject to fire codes, of course) doesn’t mean that people don’t have the right to kick you out of it if you are loud, disrespectful, and obnoxious.
What’s legitimate is to pack the hall with opponents of health care reform and have them ask tough questions and express their opposition to the proposed reform. What’s not legitimate is to make it impossible to conduct a civil debate where all sides are heard. It’s not legitimate to cause disturbances that require that additional police be called to the scene. It’s not legitimate to assault other people, who are merely expressing their same rights, with verbal harassment.
These tactics are certainly going to cause some backlash, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t succeed in their main purpose. It just seems a bit surreal to see this amount of passion around a bill that is languishing in Max Baucus’s languid brain.
The Beckers are unhinged. Bob Inglis is a very religiously conservative guy but he’s actually sane on a lot of issues.
Bob Inglis represents the area I lived in when I was in high school. His victory over Democrat Liz Patterson was the beginning of the conservative stronghold in this area exactly when BMW was building a major auto plant there.
Inglis took the Contract on America points seriously. They preached term limits. He practiced them, making way for Jim DeMint to enter national politics. And then he was amazed to see that he was the only Congressman from the class of 1994 who did.
The lady at the end is hollering “What are we afraid of…We’re not afraid…What are we afraid of..” Beck has given them courage to speak up, but little else. They see themselves as patriots holding back socialism on behalf of their neighbors who believe the same things they do but will not stand up. It’s the 109th Fighting Keyboarders brought to the meeting room. They are not afraid because they are in the conservative heartland of SC.
What is baffling is why they would show up at a Republican town hall meeting and try to shut it down like Inglis was a Democrat. Beck has created an anti-Congress movement and Republicans might be primaried by Beck-heads come next fall.
It just seems a bit surreal to see this amount of passion around a bill that is languishing in Max Baucus’s languid brain.
But that’s not really what all of this is about, is it?
Fantasies of murder on FOX news last night.
Call me crazy, but I think he crossed a line there.
Um, wow.
It’s legal to broadcast this?
Credit, in part, due my old “pal”, Mr. Bob MacGuffie. His wife indicates that he is stressed out by the attention. Yeah, right.
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See my recent diary … Mob Violence at Tampa Town Hall.
Nazi Germany glorified an idealized “Aryan/Norse” heritage, consequently extremists have appropriated many symbols from pre-Christian Europe for their own uses. They give such symbols a racist significance, even though the symbols did not originally have such meaning.
Forbidden images in Germany and neighbouring countries.It’s a double-edged sword used by opinion-makers like Glenn Beck and talk-show host Rush Limbaugh. It’s pure fascism (SA brown shirts) and ugly racism which ultimately leads to violence. See also my recent diary on Joost Meerloo. Every American must remember the history of the 1936 Berlin Olympics and a superior Jesse Owen.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."In fact, we do have something to rally around.
First, advocating that the Democratic Caucus vote on record for the Anthony Wiener substitute amendment (HR 676) to the House bill and the Sanders bill in the Senate as a “show of strength” for healthcare reform. These are the single-payer bills and they are closely matched. I suspect that if this happens, it will fail but the numbers on a recorded vote might be surprising.
Second, bypass Baucus’s Finance Committee boondoggle and the Senate take up whatever bill comes from the House.
Third, at a minimum House passage of HR 3200 with a strong public option and removal of the crap that Mike Ross (using the Blue Dogs as cover for his whoring for UnitedHealthCare) threw into the mix in the Energy and Commerce Committee. With recorded votes on every move.
Obama is not going to call for this. Neither House of Congress is going to call for this. We should give up this bullcrap about “Democrats need leadership to do…” and create the groundswell that overcomes the teabaggers and makes Congress do it.
But I sense too many progressives are looking for excuses to do nothing.
I think part of the problem is that we have way too many “strategists” counseling us not to make waves. We have effective organizations when it comes to elections — MoveOn, PFAW, the unions, Act Blue, and many, many more. But as far as I can see, none have been willing to organize much more than e-petitions for single payer or a public option. Those are mere skirmishes in the real struggle: a death match with the insurancecos. Dem pols are not going to go up against these corporations or their patsies because that is not what American politicians do. Our most powerful weapon, as always, is organized and passionate advocacy for issues, not parties, and passionate opposition to the other side. We are not lacking in the means to fight and win.
We are in the midst of a golden opportunity to show that the Town Hall Thugs are nothing more than zombie mobs fueled by racism, nativism, and animal-level ignorance, doing the bidding of corporate puppeteers like thieving “health care” CEO Rick Scott and all his peers.
Maybe we’re too afraid of hate. Maybe there’s no escaping the truth that sometimes the only way to fight fire is with fire.
It would have been nice to have a White House that had its shit together and banged the public option drum endlessly. Instead, we get trial balloons about triggers, co-ops, and “bipartisanship”.
As has become the norm of late, it’s more failure we can believe in.
It’s not a failure until it’s over, and it is not over; it has just begun.
I think that the fiction of bipartisanship has served well to keep a little lid on Republican opposition.
Now that the legislation in the House includes a strong public option and taxes on the top 2%, watch for Republicans to go bananas. OH, wait, they’re doing that.
Having the Congress take the lead ran the risk of creating screwy ideas but it got rid of the impression that Obama was dictating a plan and shoving down the throats of Democrats in Congress (the supposed problem with the Clinton plan in 1993-1994).
You have a White House staff that is compromised. Rahm has ties to the healthcare industry; Jim Messina has ties to Max Baucus AND the healthcare industry. The White House is not on message because the media can find these guys and they will say something stupid. Yesterday, it was Messina supposedly admitting a deal with Tauzin and PHRMA. Today, it’s Rahm supposedly telling lefty organizations to back off of Democratic Senators.
What Obama has stated are principles or goals that will determines whether he signs something or vetoes it. The White House has consistently said that if any of those trial balloons meet those principles and goals, Obama would support it, but that Congress needs to come to some consensus on the details.
The only failure I see so far is progressives getting off their duffs and whipping the votes for the public option (or even single-payer) with the same determination that the teabaggers have for disrupting meetings.
If the bottom is continuing to make excuses, you don’t have bottom-up democracy. And the promised change was from top-down, trickle-down democracy to bottom-up democracy. Or maybe folks were to cynical to believe that Obama would provide that sort of process change.
Well, we better use it and quick, or the astroturfers will take it away from us again.
I really would like to believe this secret strategy you have Obama engaging in . . . but common sense and history tell us Democrats, and Obama, are not being sincere. The always wink, wink, and say they are on our side then claim that you lefties just didn’t do a good enough job of rallying support. This is always the suckers game that centrist Dems have been playing with liberals for a while now. Just wait, we have to retreat on this issue and we’ll fight later when we have more firepower and the conditions are better. Pie in the sky hippy, just keep voting for me.
According to this thinking it’s liberals’ fault for not getting a groundswell of support for socialized health care. . . it’s not the politicians fault for failing to lead on this issue.
I can’t think of another issue, health care, where there was already support and people were ready for real leadership. From Obama and the Democrats. Obama could have helped the Democratic party for generations by making it the party that fights for a fair health care system.
But instead Obama will play these games and like Lucy kicking the football liberals will once again fall into line and accept anything the centrist Democrats and their GOP business daddies shove down their throats. And they will say, well, we tried to rally the base. Obama will be content because he let the left blow off steam but he was still seen as punching them in the face when it mattered and was grown up enough to broker the real power deals with the centrists and the business interests. My God, the pharma lobby just demanded that the WH confirm the deal it got and the WH complied! You hippies don’t get half the attention!
Anyway, I’ve heard this “you hippies just have to work harder to show us why socialized health care is good and make Obama do it” too many times. It’s a suckers game designed to make us hippies feel like we are part of the team and that Obama really is on our side (even when all facts are to the contrary) and so we blew off steam by trying to convince people and write angry letters (not like those uncouth birther teabagger goobers–we write sternly worded letters). But ultimately the left will get in line and rubber stamp whatever giveaway Obama and the other centrist Democrats worked out in secret with industry. This is where your secret strategy is headed.
The only way you make Obama pay attention is say no to his compromise. Politicians must vote against it. And I don’t think even the progressive Democrats are courageous enough to stand up and fight for basic principles. Even they are as corrupted as Obama and other centrists and this is all a game to make it feel like you guys are being listened to when you didn’t even have a seat at the table.
Makes it very easy for you doesn’t it?
It isn’t a “secret strategy”. It’s damn muddling through. Obama tries not to repeat Clinton’s mistakes; Obama has compromised folks on his staff. Obama is fricking irrelevant until it comes time to sign the bill.
You don’t have to convince me that socialized health care is good; I can read the studies of plans in other countries. You have to convince Congress, a seriously compromised Congress. And the way you do that is to prove to individual Congressfolk that your people in their districts have the power to defeat them and elect someone more progressive if they don’t support what their constituents want. Now, if their constituents don’t want socialized healthcare yet, you have to convince them to change their minds. That’s the way you win in a democracy; people choose. And in a democracy compromised by corporate interests, people have to choose to stand up and push for what they want.
You don’t have a seat at the table; you jolly well create a seat at the table.
And the consequences of a poor bill. You have to come back and fix it later. The consequences of no bill at all; you wait another generation for the healthcare system to actually collapse under its own weight.
I’d rather get it done now.
You’re absolutely right that one has to fight for his seat at the table. That’s what I’m talkin’ bout.
And the way progressives get a seat at the table is to stop being the pushovers they are. Start playing hardball. And right now about the only power they have is to scuttle a deal.
They have to scuttle this deal and then they will get a seat the next time. If not, then scuttle that one. A letter writing campaing to blow off steam is not nearly as effective as the left sticking together to scuttle this giveaway and compromise.
I’m ready for a change in tactics. The left has tried the nice approach for too long. Pleading, writing letters, accepting promises from its leaders they will do something in the future when they have enough political capital. That dynamic has led to failure and liberals need a new strategy. And that is not going along with the centrists that are so eager to sell out.
My negativity will actually help attain a positive result more quickly than your more hopeful strategy. Sure, Obama and all the pragmatist concern trolls will squawk like stuck pigs if the left says no to too much compromise and demands a certain level of reform, but it will be much better in the long term. Liberals need to demonstrate they have power and that means taking power away from centrist Dems that want to sell out (including Obama–his role is much bigger than you and other lefties are PRETENDING–Obama is clearly pushing for a business-friendly compromise it’s just that many liberals feel it’s in their interests to pretend that Obama is open to being convinced–it’s why he’s a good politician).
Because in a month the angry letter-writing will be for naught and Obama will be putting the screws to you and the left to support what is sure to be an abysmal giveaway to the big Sick Care Industry.
Over 50 progressives have signed a petition declaring that they will oppose any bill w/o a public option. Isn’t that exactly what you’re advocating?
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m advocating. I guess I’m just jumping ahead and predicting what will happen–that this pledge will not hold.
This is the most principled stand the “left” has taken in a while, and I do hope that the progressives and liberals are able to work within Congress and the party to put a little pressure on the centrists and that they will succeed. But I don’t see it working. Obama clearly will not support them and my reading of the tea leaves is that Obama is meeting with industry and empowering the centrists behind the scenes and since the party has allowed Obama so much power Obama will probably be able to enforce his compromise on the party. I’m reacting because the letter writing campaign appears to me more of a blowing off steam exercise designed to placate liberals so that they will eventually support Obama’s grand compromise.
So yeah, liberals need to break free of the party and scuttle this compromise. I just don’t have much hope. Remember, if it was up to me Kucinich would be leading the party 🙂
And you are going to do what to prevent that giveaway?
I mean, besides having attitude. And playing prophet.
Hey, the first step is opening one’s eyes. Going along with the same old dsyfunctional system time after time and getting the same result isn’t working either. It may make you feel like you’re doing something but all you’re doing is putting off the day of reckoning for later . . .. when it will be much worse.
And an attitude adjustment is a good first step. Instead of being the victim going on offense is exactly what this prophet sees as the solution for liberals. Let’s start playing hardball. And like any weak-kneed coward, to make the transition to a fighter, one must first go through an attitude adjustment.
So yeah, instead of writing Nancy Pelosi I will engage with you (I think it’s much more productive). Writing Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid a sternly-worded letter is not working. How about everyone make a pledge that they will not vote for a Democrat unless we have real health care reform by 2012? That seems much more effective than begging Nancy and the Democrats to listen to you but still voting for them no matter what.
Wow. A couple a thousand names on those pledges will scare them into submission, I bet.
btw, I haven’t written any letters to Pelosi or Reid — ever.
But I have contacted my own Congressman several times about healthcare even though he is on none of the three House committees responsible for the bill
And I participated in a campaign that successfully whipped Kay Hagan to get behind a strong public option in the Senate HELP bill.
And I told Kent Conrad’s staff that I read Conrad’s statement that the votes for a public option are not there as an admission that Conrad will filibuster a bill with a public option
And I reminded a Congressman, whose district I used to live in that his vote on taxing the upper 2% to finance the public option was important.
And I reminded a netroots candidate who I donated to and who has gotten a little shaky that my contribution was based on him doing what he pledged to do.
And when they voted the way that I advocated, I called back and thanked them–even if I was not their direct constituent.
And about the pledge you suggested, I think that most Democrats know full well that if there is not real healthcare reform by 2012, they have problems. That gives them a bill this year, taking it into the 2010 elections that they got done the pre-existing conditions issue and other things that are very popular. A bill next year to move some stuff along. A bill in 2011 to fix some of the issues in the 2009 bill. And a bill in 2012 before the election to put Republicans on the spot. But that presupposes getting something done this year. If nothing gets done this year, there will have to be a new party to get it done before another generation has passed.
The birthers, the teabaggers, the health-haters weren’t given a seat at the table either. They made themselves one. Obama isn’t a legislator. He’s the executive. I don’t understand why you keep putting the responsibility solely on him. If the Republican leadership was doing its job the way Reid and Baucus and the blue dogs are, they’d be cowering and silent in some corner somewhere.
On healthcare Obama has pretty much done what he’s supposed to do: set out the parameters that are acceptable. It’s up to Congress to make that happen, and it’s up to us to make Congress make that happen.
I’ve suggested over and over again, in various forums, what we should be doing: NOW a coalition that is NOW raising money and marshalling volunteers and preparing the ground for primaries against every Dem senator who blocks a public option (at a minimum) in committee or fails to vote for clouture on a bill that contains it. We have organizations including MoveOn, PFAW, the unions, Act Blue, and dozens more that are brilliantly capable of making this happen. All I see them doing is putting out email petitions and asking for money. Obama can’t create a left in this country. We’re the only ones who can, and we’re not doing it. So screw us.
We have such a coalition. And there are ActBlue pages for primaries. But the ground troops and candidates must be local. The large organizations have policy agenda items that they are pushing. And the only ones that really have much local presence at all are DFA and OFA (and union locals).
The problem with Senators is that the stumbling blocks are not the ones who face the voters next year. And they think that folks will forget by the time their next election comes around.
Do you have a list of primary alternatives for folks like Mike Ross and Charlie Melancon and Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin? Or Harry Reid? Or Blanche Lincoln? Or Michael Bennet (CO)? Or Evan Bayh? Or Byron Dorgan? They’re up in 2010. Specter is already being primaried. Burris is dropping out.
Obama’s job is not to create a left in this country. His job is to create a Democratic Party presence in every precinct in this country. Don’t get the two conflated or you will be disappointed.
I entirely agree that it’s not Obama’s job to create a left — hence my sig. It’s our job, and so far we’re miserable failures.
I don’t know how I can be clearer on what I’m trying to propose: I want this coalition you say we have to announce now the formation of a task force committed to savaging in the next primary any Dem member of Congress who votes against a minimal acceptable healthcare bill and any Dem senator who refused to vote for cloture.
It doesn’t matter what the alternatives are. Anyone who doesn’t legislate like a Democrat on this will find money, phone banks, and ground troops dedicated to their defeat. It’s a preemptive strike — a message that the organizations that helped them win last time can just as easily turn on them.
Netroots Nation would be an appropriate place to bring this idea informally. I am not going, but do you know anyone who is?
The alternatives do matter; they have be credibly capable of winning the primary and the general in order for this to be an effective disciplinary tool. Otherwise the incumbent can just brush the effort off. I think that the entry of Joe Sestak into the PA Senate races illustrates this.