I don’t want to overhype the developing divisions in Libya, but don’t say I didn’t warn you that tribal and regional factions would emerge and fight over the spoils of power once Gaddafi was driven out. It’s too early to predict a continuation of the civil war, but it remains a real risk. The capital remains relatively calm, which is a very positive sign. But it also seems unlikely that all the factions can be satisfied that they’re getting their fair share. I’m not going to pretend that I understand the dynamics in play, but that’s kind of the point. I highly doubt that our government knows who it wants to back and why they want to back them.
The country was little more than a loose federation of regions and tribes before Colonel Qaddafi came to power. His reliance on favoritism and repression to maintain control did little to bridge Libya’s regional, ethnic and ideological divisions. Nor did the rebels who ousted Colonel Qaddafi ever organize themselves into a unified force. Rebels from the western mountains, the mid-coastal city of Misurata and the eastern city of Benghazi each fought independently, and often rolled their eyes in condescension at one another.
An Islamist was named to head the new Tripoli Military Council and he appears to have the full backing of Qatar, which armed and trained the Tripoli Brigades during the war.
“This guy is just a creation of the Qataris and their money, and they are sponsoring the element of Muslim extremism here,” another council member from the western region said. “The revolutionary fighters are extremely unhappy and surprised. He is the commander of nothing!”
Mixed with the ideological concerns, however, was an equal measure of provincial rivalry over who did more to liberate Tripoli. Not only was Mr. Hasadi an Islamist, the council member argued, but he had done less than the western rebels in the fight for the capital.
“People in the west were saying to each other, ‘What? This kid? This is rubbish! What about our top commanders?’ ” the council member said.
I’m not saying that the case is proven that we should not have gotten involved in Libya’s internal affairs. But, at the same time, it is far too early for any triumphalism. The fighting might be over and the country could be headed for a bright future. But that is far from guaranteed. There is a lot of money on the line, and now there are a lot more guns, ammunition, and trained fighters to fight for that money.
Finding out you are a Virgo explains so much. My son and two of my closest friends are Virgos, and you all have the same trait: An absolute unwillingness to concede a point. You’re intellectual gymnists. Not necessarily academic super stars, but you have no fear or shame in challenging anyone to debate. If 100 people are going right, you will go left just because…
I’m convinced most serial killers are Virgos.
Why am I not surprised to hear you believe in astrology?
This will be a better world when mass atrocities by a government against its people are not brushed off as “internal affairs.”
On the larger point, the overthrow of any dictator by the people is always a crap shoot. Look at France after 1789. Look at Russia after 1919. Look at any number of African countries that threw off colonial rule in the 50s-90s.
The overthrow of tyrants by their subjects is a good thing, separate and apart from subsequent political developments. It is a reason for celebration even though there are no guarantees that the people will get their shit together in short order. Sometimes progress is halting; that doesn’t mean we should stop supporting the process.
Furthermore, your determination to treat political messiness in the aftermath of a revolution as an excuse to condemn the revolution is quite unbecoming for a liberal and a democrat. There are different factions competing with each other for political power in Libya? GOOD! There is competition for power among factions in any political system, except one in which an autocracy crushes their opponents.
But, but, everything must conform to a pre-existing pattern derived from events that happened during my formative years. I’m not sure if it’s Iraq, or Vietnam, or something else, but Libya is just like it, whatever it is.
Posted too soon… wrong button.
The left fundamentally doesn’t believe in R2P. It’s embarrassing, but the most vocal remaining defendants of the Westphalian nation-state are the spiritual grandchildren of the Second International.
Humanitarian intervention raises some genuinely difficult questions for the Left. The concept pits many of our deeply-held principles against each other.
Too difficult for many leftists, apparently, given how many of them have responded by simply denying the existence of such a thing, so they can argue against something – imperialism, colonialism, war-for-oil – that is much easier to handle.
Alle Menschen sind Brüder, nicht so sehr.
The tendency of the left to turn itself into the mirror of the right is on display again. Faced with a choice between doing something to help fellow humans in distress, and preserving cherished theories about how the world is supposed to work, we’ll take the theories every time.
It’s no whit different from Cantor insisting that if FEMA can’t provide aid to hurricane victims without ofsetting cuts elsewhere, no aid will be provided.
Slaves to a different theory, but still slaves.
I didn’t argue imperialism, colonialism or war-for-oil on Libya.
I argued that it wasn’t something we should risk getting involved in considering the particular circumstances.
I respect that the president made a different call, and I hope it works out for everyone involved.
If you made me president, it would be exceedingly difficult to get me to deploy troops abroad for military or military/humanitarian efforts. My priority would be to help Europe increase their own capabilities, and to foster growth in democratic and international institutions in the Middle East who could eventually develop the desire to police their own region, and thus the capability, too.
I have no problem sending troops to help Haiti after an earthquake or Sumatra after an earthquake. And I am willing to protect South Korea from their unpredictable northern neighbor. I am also okay with continued commitments to Taiwan and Japan. And NATO participation should be maintained, albeit with a diminished US presence on the Continent.
But we have to get beyond the situation that led to the Persian Gulf War and its horrible on still ongoing aftermath. We can’t be the indispensable UN enforcement arm, because he can’t handle that burden alone and sustain our way of life.
We can’t be the indispensable UN enforcement arm, because he can’t handle that burden alone and sustain our way of life.In Libya, we weren’t.
And that’s the difference. Not everything is Iraq.
The big difference now is that the people of Libya can choose what they will put up with. Before the revolution, they had no choice.
I for one remain shocked and appalled that Libya hasn’t transitioned into a functioning democracy in the week since 95% of the fighting concluded.
That’s an adequate and responsible timeframe to use, right? A week? Just checking.