Herman Cain is a Moron

26 Comments

1. 

   Oui on October 18, 2011 at 2:15 am

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   Jewish historian Flavius Josephus

   “At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.” Testimonium Flavius

   "But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

   • 

     hz on October 18, 2011 at 4:31 am

     I’ve heard the weight of academic consensus is that the passages in Antiquities of the Jews pertaining to Jesus were pretty conclusively determined to be forgeries decades ago.  

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       Oui on October 18, 2011 at 5:14 am

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       I used the Arabic version.

       As discussed in the link Testimonium Flavius

       The first person to cite this passage of Antiquities was Eusebius, writing in about 324. In his Demonstratio Evangelica, he quotes the passage in essentially the same form (he has πολλους των Ιουδαιων instead of πολλους Ιουδαιους, and inserts απο before του Ελληνικου).

       As is common with ancient texts, The Antiquities of the Jews survives only in medieval copies. The manuscripts, the oldest of which dates from the 11th century, are all Greek minuscules, and all have been copied by Christian monks. Jews did not preserve the writings of Josephus because they considered him to be a traitor. The text of Antiquities appears to have been transmitted in two halves i.e. (books 1-10 and books 11-20). Other ad hoc copies of the Testimonium also survive, as a quotation in the works of Christian writers.

       The topic of the Testimonium’s authenticity has attracted much scholarly debate. The discussion generally falls into three camps:

       Those who defend the authenticity of the entire passage;

       Those who reject the entire passage;

       Those who believe the passage has an authentic core but also includes later embellishments by Christian scribes.

       "But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

       • 

         Errol on October 18, 2011 at 1:19 pm

         It was interpolated pretty early though.

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         Errol on October 18, 2011 at 3:01 pm

         Not sure what you’re suggesting about the Arabic version. All preserved versions are much later than the original writing and are copies or translations. Arabic would be a translation presumably from a copy. all versions are taken into account and weighed in reconstructing the text though

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     Errol on October 18, 2011 at 9:15 am

     josephus passage probably a Christian interpolation

2. 

   Quentin on October 18, 2011 at 3:52 am

   It just seems to me goofy that Jesus plays a role in US politics. Can you imagine,

3. 

   hz on October 18, 2011 at 4:38 am

   Not to mention he apparently has no more sense with campaign money than Gingrich, or possibly even Christine O’Donnell.

4. 

   seabe on October 18, 2011 at 6:16 am

   Not to mention that if Jesus existed — debatable — and if he performed miracles — definitely did not — that to argue he did not help the unemployed or the sick is ridiculous on its face. He went beyond helping them; he gave it to them for free. And, you know, he kinda had God helping him. I think that part is more moronic than the nonsense about the liberal court lol.

5. 

   priscianus jr on October 18, 2011 at 6:32 am

   The Muggletonians had a different interpretation:

   “… let us, that have received Faith to believe in the glorious Person of the Lord Jesus, by his Power, patiently suffer THE CURSED SPIRIT OF CAIN in his heathen Magistrates, to shed all our innocent Blood, if our God will have it so, that they ‘may fill up the Measure of their Father’s Sins, from the Blood of righteous Abel and the holy Prophets, to the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus, and the holy Apostles, that our Blood … may make the last Persecutors of Christians compleat Devils, with THEIR FATHER CAIN, WHO WAS THE FIRST BLOODY PERSECUTOR OF THE FIRST SUFFERING CHRISTIAN; therefore it is written, that Christ was a Lamb slain from the Beginning of the World, he being slain in believing Abel.” (John Reeve and Lodowicke Mugggleton, “A TRANSCENDENT SPIRITUAL TREATISE UPON SEVERAL HEAVENLY DOCTRINES,” Chapt. XI).

6. 

   MassCommons on October 18, 2011 at 7:03 am

   Leaving aside for the moment debates about the “historical Jesus”, if there’s any relevance of the story of Jesus’ trial and execution for contemporary American politics, it might be that two of the mostly highly developed legal systems of the ancient world combined to carry out that execution.

   At the least, it should give pause to those who seem so convinced of the infallibility of the American justice system….

7. 

   Oscar In Dallas on October 18, 2011 at 7:58 am

   Perhaps in the most technical sense of conserving the original intent, but certainly not in this postmodern political process.

   Jesus on family values:

   At dawn [Jesus] appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

   But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

   At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

   “No one, sir,” she said.

   “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

   Jesus on the primacy of marriage:

   On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, asking, “Teacher, Moses said, `IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.’ Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. Last of all, the woman died. In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”

   But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: `I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

   When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

   Jesus on welfare, criminal justice, and immigration:

   “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

   “Then the King will say to those on His right, `Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

   “Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

   Jesus on churchy folk:

   “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.

   “Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

   Jesus on the Religious Right (one of my favorite passages of Scripture):

   Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

   “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

   “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, `Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? And, `Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, `If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

   “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

   Call Him what you want – conservative, liberal, libertarian – but Jesus would not be welcome in today’s Republican Party…

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     The Voice In The Wilderness on October 18, 2011 at 12:33 pm

     “Strain at a gnat, but swallow a camel”

     Sounds like the Supreme Court. They cannot see simple justice, but endow legal fictions with the rights of human beings.

8. 

   Suranis on October 18, 2011 at 8:56 am

   It just goes to show that the Roman empire was a hotbed of liberalism. 🙂

9. 

   rikyrah on October 18, 2011 at 9:14 am

   of course he’s an idiot

10. 

    TarheelDem on October 18, 2011 at 9:22 am

    When are we going to learn that the details of conservative rhetoric don’t matter.  They are going to throw as much shit against the wall as they can; then start repeating ad nauseum the shit that sticks.  The fact that Cain has pulled out the religious version of Jonah Goldberg’s liberal fascism means that Republicans have absolutely nothing left to campaign on.  And they are vainly searching for something, anything.

    Meanwhile the grassroots level Tea Party folks who now realize how they were had by the GOP over the last two years are beginning to filter into Southern and Western general assemblies of the Occupy Wall Street movement.  And they are angry at both political parties.

    And the extent of the post-9/11 police state becomes clearer.  It is now illegal to sit in a park with an umbrella — in Seattle.  Also in Seattle, honking in support of the protesters will get you a $144 ticket.  Police have repeatedly torn down tents and taken stuff in Denver.  And in New York City, Occupy Wall Street only saved the tarp over its first aid area because Jesse Jackson the elder was there and physically stood in front of it.  And yes…Cornel West was arrested for sitting-in on the steps of the Supreme Court.  How many recusals will that require?

    The numbers involved in Occupy Wall Street are certainly now 1 in a 1000 people in a community.  That means that in a month the movement has grown from a couple hundred people on Wall Street to probably 300,000 to 500,000 nationwide.  And the geographical reach is striking in the South.  Last night a couple dozen intrepid folks began occupying a park in Jackson MS.  A diverse encampment.  The economy might have become so bad that folks will put aside racism and all the phony GOP culture issues as well.

    The current Republican field is so last decade.  Noughts.

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      The Voice In The Wilderness on October 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm

      The economy might have become so bad that folks will put aside racism and all the phony GOP culture issues as well.

      If only you are right! Or is it another Bonus Army to be crushed under cavalry hooves?

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        TarheelDem on October 18, 2011 at 4:24 pm

        At the moment, it is the enforcing of park regulations that is the excuse.  My sense that it really depends on how widely dispersed it gets before it grows in size.  Of course, SF, Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Denver, Atlanta are already large enough to be threatening something.  It seems that it is more the desire to keep out hobos than to protect Wall Street.  Public aesthetics and all that.

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          The Voice In The Wilderness on October 18, 2011 at 4:39 pm

          I really doubt if that is Rahm Emanuel’s motive.

          To be fair, Chicago cops haven’t been as bad as New York. Maybe they (and Rahm) learned something from 1968.

11. 

    Errol on October 18, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Cain is a moron, since if there’s anything we know about Jesus it’s that he was on the side of the poor and oppressed and one of his principal disciples was a woman (Mary Magdalene). Jerusalem was Roman occupied. The USA is occupied by whom?
    Cain’s blather aside, there is  lots and lots of scholarship on every aspect of the arrest, trial and crucifixion of Jesus. what was his offense? lots of ink spilled on that, but some argue it was his temple action (“cleansing of the temple”). Any kind of demonstration around the Temple which was the focal point of tremendous dispute, especially around a holiday, would be expected to provoke a crackdown under Roman occupation.

12. 

    BillE on October 18, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Cain maybe a moron but he is tied into the Kock empire.  That makes him dangerous to anyone left of the Birchers.

    Cain and Koch

13. 

    nonynony on October 18, 2011 at 10:24 am

    If you actually think Herman Cain is a moron, you are misunderstanding Herman Cain completely.

    When he says “Jesus was a conservative” what he is saying is “Jesus was everything I typically think of as good, which as a member in good standing of the conservative movement I’m going to label as conservative”.  When he says the court that sentenced Jesus was “liberal” what he means is it was “everything I typically think of as bad, which I’m going to label as liberal”.

    It isn’t that Herman Cain is a moron – far from it.  He speaks conservative-base-ese.  Which I would expect given that he’s a talk radio jock and general conservative grifter.  He knows the lingo and he knows how to extract money from the rubes by using it.

    And the fruits of his labor seem to be paying off.  If Cain plays his cards right, by the end of this presidential run his radio show will be syndicated from coast to coast, he’ll have a full schedule of speaking gigs, the coffers of his self-promotional company will be full and he might even have a TV show on Fox News.  Not too shabby – and definitely not the work of a moron.  (But of course if he doesn’t pull it off he’s going to flame out badly.  He can go wrong in one of two ways – he can either push it too far and say/do something that disturbs enough of the crazy-base to lose favor with them, or he can start to moderate himself a bit and apologize for his words, which will infuriate them.  He’s already had a few incidents where he’s apologized and then walked the apology back – if he does that too much they’re going to turn on him.  He needs to keep pushing the bounds without going too far.  A delicate balance, but one that may pay out big for him if he can pull it off).

14. 

    priscianus jr on October 18, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    That is 100% correct.

    In other news, the AP uncovers Cain’s deep ties to the Koch Bros. However, in the otherwise informative and beneficial article we find this curious staement:

    “His links to the Koch brothers could undercut his outsider, non-political image among tea party fans who detest politics as usual and candidates connected with the party machine.”
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdTg7fBI-3oB42qjrXSVmsTUAmPw?docId=6c9dbc14827a4c8
    1bb6dadf93474add9

    Yes, for all the folks out there that have never heard of the Koch Brothers’ own links to the Tea Party. Like, they pretty much founded it and have funded it since it started. Yes, I know, Karl Denninger blah blah blah, Ron Paul blah blah blah. But seriously, folks.
       I’m not suggesting that Denninger didn’t have the best of intentions. But his call to mail in the tea bags came on Jsnuary 20, 2009, the day of President Obama’s inauguration. The Santelli rant occurred on Feb. 19th. Meaning that the Tea Party movement was co-opted by the Koch forces exactly one month after it started. this didn’t fool me because I (no doubt like most people) had never even heard of the first one by the time I heard of the second one.)

    • 

      priscianus jr on October 18, 2011 at 2:17 pm

      The above was a reply to nonynony.

    • 

      Oui on October 18, 2011 at 2:30 pm

      .
      See my recent diary – Don’t Discount Tea Party Candidate

      Herman Cain’s deep pockets: the Koch brothers

      Herman Cain has been tied to the Koch Brothers. The Washington Post reports that Cain’s campaign manager, his economic adviser, and a number of his aids have worked for Americans for Prosperity (AFP) the Koch-founded group that advocates for lower taxes and less government regulation.

      • Liam Fox resignation exposes Tory links to US radical right

      "But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

15. 

    Oui on October 18, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    .

    Herman Cain 9-9-9 Plan Influenced by The Sims Video Game Parody

     

    "But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."