A source of mine within the White House who is firmly supportive of taking action against Syria, told me off the record that she is personally frustrated that many progressives are failing to draw distinctions between what is proposed for Syria and what was done in Iraq. While she made a good argument about the differences, the problem is the similarities.
I woke up this morning to discover that Secretary of State John Kerry is over in London making impossible demands of the Assad regime that are very reminiscent of how the Bush administration treated Iraq with respect to the U.N. inspections just prior to the 2003 invasion.
LONDON — Secretary of State John Kerry said on Monday that if President Bashar al-Assad wants to avert an attack on Syria, he should hand over all of his chemical weapons within one week.
Asked if there were steps the Syrian president could take to avert an American-led attack, Mr. Kerry said: “Sure, he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week — turn it over, all of it, without delay and allow the full and total accounting.”
At best, the regime could make a commitment to turn over their chemical stockpiles within the next week but, logistically, there is no way that that task could be accomplished within seven days. In any case, the State Department was quick to clarify that Secretary Kerry wasn’t even being serious.
The US state department stressed that Kerry was making a rhetorical argument about the one-week deadline and unlikelihood of Assad turning over Syria’s chemical weapons stockpile. In an emailed statement, the department added: “His point was that this brutal dictator with a history of playing fast and loose with the facts cannot be trusted to turn over chemical weapons, otherwise he would have done so long ago. That’s why the world faces this moment.”
Another similarity to Iraq is the tendency to exaggerate the strength of our intelligence. Over the weekend, I read this Reuters piece that reported on our inability to figure out who ordered the attack.
With the United States threatening to attack Syria, U.S. and allied intelligence services are still trying to work out who ordered the poison gas attack on rebel-held neighborhoods near Damascus.
No direct link to President Bashar al-Assad or his inner circle has been publicly demonstrated, and some U.S. sources say intelligence experts are not sure whether the Syrian leader knew of the attack before it was launched or was only informed about it afterward.
While U.S. officials say Assad is responsible for the chemical weapons strike even if he did not directly order it, they have not been able to fully describe a chain of command for the August 21 attack in the Ghouta area east of the Syrian capital.
It is one of the biggest gaps in U.S. understanding of the incident, even as Congress debates whether to launch limited strikes on Assad’s forces in retaliation.
Yet, based on ambiguous intercepts and inconclusive satellite surveillance, Secretary Kerry argued this morning that concrete proof is unnecessary:
Kerry said the US had tracked the Syrian chemical weapons stock for many years, adding that it “was controlled in a very tight manner by the Assad regime … Bashar al-Assad and his brother Maher al-Assad, and a general are the three people that have the control over the movement and use of chemical weapons.
“But under any circumstances, the Assad regime is the Assad regime, and the regime issues orders, and we have regime members giving these instructions and engaging in these preparations with results going directly to President Assad.
“We are aware of that so we have no issue here about responsibility. They have a very threatening level of stocks remaining.”
Going back to the Reuters article, the idea that Maher al-Assad was responsible for the attacks is now under serious doubt.
Reports that Assad’s brother, Maher, a general who commands an elite Republican Guard unit and a crack Syrian army armored division, gave the order to use chemicals have not been substantiated, U.S. sources said. Some U.S. sources now believe Maher Assad did not order the attack and was not directly involved.
Other than the Assad brothers, the unnamed general is supposed to be the only official with command of the chemical stockpiles. This would presumably be the head of the Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Council (SSRC). But we haven’t pinned anything on him, either.
U.S. officials say Amr Armanazi, a Syrian official identified as SSRC director in a State Department sanctions order a year ago, was not directly involved.
So, the first glaring similarity between Syria and Iraq is that we are racing to take military action based on flimsy evidence and without being serious about allowing the regime to disarm or (in the case of Iraq) prove that they have already disarmed. In both cases, the real policy was regime change, and everything else was subordinate to that.
What’s even more troubling is the similarity between the demographics of Iraq and Syria, the discounting of the potential for increased sectarian and ethnic fighting, and the lack of planning for the aftermath of a regime change. In the case of Iraq, it was just assumed that nothing could be worse than life under Saddam and that the status quo was too unacceptable to risk doing nothing. It was also assumed that we’d be greeted with flowers and chocolates and that we could install a puppet regime with little difficulty. In Syria, the assumption is that the strikes will be too limited to topple the regime in the short-term and that, in any case, we aren’t going to put “boots on the ground,” so we won’t be responsible for governing Syria if the regime collapses.
Amazingly, if you look at the proposed language of the Senate’s Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF), you will see the following sentence: “absent decisive change to the present military balance of power on the ground in Syria, sufficient incentives do not yet exist” to topple Assad. In other words, we know that conditions are not ripe for a coup. Yet, the strikes are intended to change the conditions on the ground. This essentially means that it would be a major fuck-up if the strikes or the mere threat of strikes resulted in a premature coup. Reading this, one has to ask, “What could possibly go wrong?”
There are some solid arguments in favor of doing something, and Nicholas Kristof did his best to spell them out in a weekend column in the New York Times. Basically, he pointed out that from a humanitarian perspective things are getting rapidly worse in Syria. But his argument is strongly redolent of the argument the Bush administration made against the status quo in Iraq.
On top of the 100,000-plus already killed in Syria, another 5,000 are being slaughtered monthly, according to the United Nations. Remember the Boston Massacre of 1770 from our history books, in which five people were killed? Syria loses that many people every 45 minutes on average, around the clock.
The rate of killing is accelerating. In the first year, 2011, there were fewer than 5,000 deaths. As of July 2012, there were still “only” 10,000, and the number has since soared tenfold.
A year ago, by United Nations calculations, there were 230,000 Syrian refugees. Now there are two million.
We might as well stipulate, in addition, that the introduction of chemical weapons to the battlefield (by the Assad regime, the rebels, or possibly both sides) is a further indication that the status quo is not working. Regardless of whether or not America does something, if something is not done by somebody, the humanitarian disaster in Syria will get worse.
But the questions are really about whether we should devote our resources to a problem not of our making, whether we have any kind of plan that might work, and whether the risks of making things worse for ourselves and the Syrian people outweigh the sad fact that things are currently headed to hell in a handbasket.
The administration believes that the only way to stop the downward trajectory in Syria is to change the momentum of the war and put the rebels back on the offensive. That, they believe, is the only way to get the Assad regime to seriously consider a negotiated settlement that could protect the Alawites, Christians, and other religious minorities from Sunni reprisals in a post-Assad Syria. I will admit that the administration is quite possibly correct in this assessment, but the difficulty of executing the plan is so immense that I consider the venture an unconscionable risk.
The fact that so much of the administration’s case for military action is reminiscent of the Bush case for war is not reassuring.
[If you like my analysis, please consider making a donation to the site]
Yes, there’s a big difference between Iraq 2002 and Syria 2013. In 2002 “intelligence” merely reported the “slam dunk” that Iraq had WMD and then were embarrassed later on not to find them. This year, “intelligence” made sure there really was a chemical attack so we could blame Assad for it. That’s the difference.
There is no evidence that Assad or the Syrian military were responsible for the chemical attack, and it was in every way against their interests. There IS suggestive evidence that Saudi-backed rebels may have done it.
To me, Booman, this explains the similarity to 2002 of the “rush to war” scenario you are noticing.
I am really sorry that Pres. Obama had to get mixed up in this, but there it is. It is clear that the Bush-Saudi cabal, with the Israel mouthpiece as its front, are still around.
Saudi oil and $ is the real driver, but Israel is the mouthpiece because, even with all the mounting criticism of “the Middle East’s only democracy”, they still have far better PR in this country than the Saudis. For playing this role as faithful front for the MIC, they are amply rewarded. That has been their true role for decades, but few have noticed because everyone thinks the main issue with Israel has something to do with semitism, whether pro-, anti-, or even biblical.
It seems that the pressures against war are stronger this time. Let us hope they prevail.
It’s not accurate to say that there is ‘no’ evidence that the Assad regime was behind the attack. But, so far, the evidence has been circumstantial or, at best, incriminating. The declassified evidence does not reach “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
But that is only one part of this. Even if we have legitimate geopolitical and even humanitarian reasons for strongly intervening in Syria, it matters greatly whether our plan has a reasonable prospect of being successful at any tolerable cost.
It’s the latter problem that disturbs me more than the sketchy evidence.
Both of them concern me equally. But the first one is the main pretext for the second one.
.
Israel has set by example air strikes on Syria can be executed with impunity. The red line was set by our CoC himself, Netanyahu called him out on his responsibility and credibility in reference US commitment on Iran’s nuclear issue. Israel Lobby Goes All-In for Syrian Attack
Silly doves, you’re just like the neo-cons with Iraq.
“I woke up this morning to discover that Secretary of State John Kerry is over in London making impossible demands of the Assad regime that are very reminiscent of how the Bush administration treated Iraq with respect to the U.N. inspections just prior to the 2003 invasion.”
Austria, Serbia, summer of 1914.
Major networks are ‘breaking news’ that Russia is jumping on Kerry’s comment/threat and advising Syria to put its chemical weapons under international/UN control. Interesting twist.
“While she made a good argument about the differences, the problem is the similarities.”
Yeah, from the viewpoint of our national interests the idea is not only equally pointless but equally dangerous and stupid.
WE DON’T WANT TO BE THE GLOBOCOP.
But that really bothers her.
SHE wants us to be the globocop.
And that’s what really matters.
She and her boss Obama presumably disapprove of the dispobedience of the masses. Today in the Guardian:
Over just the past week, the share of Americans who oppose U.S. airstrikes in Syria has surged 15 points, from 48% to 63%, as many who were undecided about the issue have turned against military action, according to a new national survey from the Pew Research Center and USA TODAY.
By contrast, the share of Americans who support airstrikes remains virtually unchanged: Just 28% favor U.S. military airstrikes against Syria in response to reports that its government used chemical weapons.
The new survey by the Pew Research Center and USA TODAY, conducted Sept. 4-8 among 1,506 adults, finds that this growing opposition to Syrian airstrikes is intense: 45% say they oppose airstrikes very strongly. That is roughly three-times the percentage (16%) that strongly favors airstrikes.
Just another bullshit pretext for a regime change operation they wanted, all along, anyway.
Did your friend explain how limited missile strikes would ‘change the momentum of the war and put the rebels back on the offensive?’
Target Command, Control, and Communication – if Assad and his brother (and a general to be named later) are dead then the power vacuum would create conditions favorable to the rebels. Now as to the legality of such an action, well, we’ll see what the world says about that.
I think that might send an effective message (setting aside legality) in terms of using chemical weapons if you’re not an ally of the US, but I’m not sure there’s any reason to think it would necessarily change the momentum of the war. It could very well lead to more use of chemical weapons, out of revenge or desperation, no?
She is not a general.
And I’m not a chef, but if someone assures me that limited missile strikes will result in a lovely creme brulee, I’ll ask how.
.
“… is the only way to get the Assad regime to seriously consider a negotiated settlement that could protect the Alawites, Christians, and other religious minorities from Sunni reprisals in a post-Assad Syria.”
Mind you, many initiatives for a political settlement came from the Russians, including getting Assad at the table. Ms Clinton wasn’t ready for talks because the FSA and affiliated fighters weren’t strong enough on the battlefield and she never managed to get a united opposition together, The Syrian National Council (SNC) failed although massive efforts and funds were put into the groups by the UK, France, Germany, Turkey, US and the GCC states. In the end there was an internal struggle between factions of Qatar (Muslim Brothers) and Saudi Arabia (Wahhabists and Salafists). Leaders came and went until the very end. In June, it became clear the Emir of Qatar was losing to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Ms Clinton wasted the Geneva 1 proposal by Lavrov and a number of proposals in between. In the last two months, it was the Obama administration that dragged its feet to get together for Geneva 2. Listening to Obama, Kerry and Power in their world the US did its utmost for political dialogue and a military punitive strike is the only way to go. Striking, the whole Syrian setting shifted with the fall of Qusayr and the addition of thousands of Hezbollah fighters to the frontlines. Estimates of foreign jihadists and Al Qaeda terror groups from Iraq varies between 40 and 80,000 men.
Latest tactical reply from Russia and Syria – Syria welcomes Russia’s offer to put its chemical weapons under intl control.
That jibes well with the Manchin-Heitkamp proposal and could possibly be what Kerry was driving at this morning. If so, good.
Wel…yeah, Booman. That’s why (s)he is still in the White House.
Duh.
Maybe you ought to choose your sources more wisely.
Read my latest post yet?
It’s Time To Jump Ship, Booman. Really.
You ought to do that, too.
You are on the verge of jumping ship, Booman. Your instincts are right on point here. Do not let your “sources” stop you.
Fight, man.
Fight!!!
AG
This is no longer an abstract question.
Would the White House accept Russia taking custody of and either moving or dismantling Syria’s chemical weapons as extensions of the current agreements that the US and Russia have to complete the destruction of their own Schedule 1 chemical weapons inventories?
Public reports are that Syria would agree to international custody and inspection of its chemical weapons inventories. This is a difficult logistics issue in a time of war. It seems to me that entrusting this to Russia under a currently successful framework makes a lot of sense.
And would allow the Obama administration to declare victory on the chemical weapons front without war.
It would also clear up whether the US has other motives in raising this to the crisis level it has.
Can President Obama and his national security team accept half a loaf?
Russia is our number 1 geopolitical threat, remember? Can you imagine ‘Obama arming the enemy with illegal weapons?’ I’d be shocked if it were allowed to come to that.
I think that’s snark. So my response is not about your comment but what you are pointing to.
That is exactly why I keep insisting that we need to have and adult conversation in this country about what our national security situation actually is. Too many people are still stuck in the Cold War 24 years after it ended. Younger folks are stuck in the “Global War on Terror” and acceptance of a surveillance state.
The fact is that the US doesn’t have serious geopolitical threats. Who wants to try to occupy and administer a country with as many private guns as people?
The fact about chemical weapons is that most nations’ militaries have no use for them in their operational military doctrines. Those few still in possession of Schedule 1 chemical weapons are either rapidly dismantling them or holding them for deterrence. No one is clear yet why Angola has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention.
“Who wants to try to occupy and administer a country with as many private guns as people?”
So the NRA was right after all!
But seriously, THD, if Booman’s hunch is right, then there would indeed be one VERY big difference between Iraq and Syria: Bush wanted war, Obama doesn’t.
Fact is, Shaun Appleby (Aug. 30, “Step Back and Count to Ten”) a few days ago suggested something like this, i.e. an opportunity for some major diplomacy.
I’ve never found the Iraq – Syria analogy apt except for the vague intelligence reports that seemed to “fit the facts to the policy”.
The more I’ve analyzed it, the more it looks like the Bay of Pigs fiasco in 1961 in which certain elements of the intelligence and military communities stampeded a President into a risk and potentially destabilizing action (it actual was a proximate cause of Russia sending missiles to Cuba) based on big wish dreams and crappy intelligence. And Syria, like Cuba, comes equipped with rebels that the administration can be accused of betraying when the operation fails. And those rebels, according to reporting in Mondoweiss, have been in contact with the folks in Florida who are still pushing to overthrow (Raul) Castro.
I had not thought of that, but I believe you’re right.
But then what do you make of this?
http://truth-out.org/news/item/18702-obamas-case-for-syria-didnt-reflect-intel-consensus
.
Sexing up the intelligence dossier …
So last week John Kerry used Murdoch’s WSJ and article by Elizabeth O’Bagy (a paid lobbyist), h/t to investigative report by Max Blumenthal @Mondoweiss. We know who the good guys are in Syria, there are just a few bad guys amongst the opposition fighters.
Why settle for that?
If Russia is willing to pursue the idea then they should accept a UN resolution authorizing it and let the UN handle it. At most, they could provide security for the inspectors.
That would work too IMO. It is just the fact that the US and Russia already have a bilateral framework for accounting for chemical weapons that would make the accounting of inventories and disposal easier administratively for both countries.
The more it can fit into existing administrative frameworks that have personnel in place, the more rapid can be the removal of the chemical weapons threat.
A quick signing, ratification, and declaration of inventories by the Syrian government would facilitate the mechanics of this as well.
seems more like can they accept the whole loaf?
This will quickly give the lie to all this CW blather. Everything will be “Brutal Dictator!” who “Can’t be trusted!” Every non-military diplomatic path (not to say solution) will be declared too uncertain or inadequate, unlike bombing and its “certainty”….
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/377094533294456832
interesting, but that should pretty much doom the proposal in US eyes…
Perhaps I’m being too cynical and Obama will fool me.
The devil will be in the details. As you can see from Booman’s latest post there’s a hint of blue sky here.
“distinctions between what is proposed for Syria and what was done in Iraq..”
I guess progressives are to be mollified that what is “proposed” is less than a full scale illegal invasion of another country, and “only” an (illegal) campaign of missile strikes of indeterminate duration and size to degrade and destroy all CW, obviously intended to move the situation toward our preferred outcome in an ongoing civil war of no real interest to the US. Sorry, I’m not mollified.
Another interesting difference is that so far there is very little support for this adventure in public opinion, unlike Iraq. And the more Kerry talks about “why the world faces this moment” (another absurd phrase), the more he underscores that almost no other country is stepping up to support this effort, including Britain. Jeebus, even Cheney had more “world” support! The French and their fries support it, could the Iraq irony be any stronger? (Israel supports (usually demands) all US bombing of their multitudinous adversaries, no matter what chaos results.)
We are now faced with a situation where most of the US citizenry and the world are very clearly opposed to this new US war of choice, even with the arrogant Feinsteinian pronouncements of “You should see what WE know!” Yet it appears that our gub’mint is going to go through with it no matter what under the guise of “credibility” and for “conservative” consumption, “sending a message” to—Iran of all things.
This is a demonstration of how profoundly ruined and non-operational our fake “democracy” really is, circa 2013. The reliance on the (plainly fallible) technocrats and their digital “intelligence” now trumps all.
“Why Syria is a Lot Like Iraq “
The problem with this language is that there are several ways in which the current Syrian situation is in no way like Iraq, but some are. And some aspects by their nature should hold much higher priority in a comparison. Also, sorting out the issue is about what comparisons are facts vs. circumstantial evidence vs. educated guesses vs. total speculation:
The current state of hostilities:
Iraq vs. Syria
people dying from lack of food + political “policing” vs. civil war
international intervention in place:
Iraq vs. Syria
no-fly zone + UN sanctions vs. Russia & China blocking UN security council
Weapons stockpiles in the country:
Iraq vs. Syra
no WMD vs. CW used
The proposed response:
Iraq vs. Syria
invasion w/ 100,000s of troups deployed vs. bombing only
I happen to think that these 4 are among the top 5 factors and they are all different.
I think you dwell on some stuff that isn’t so critical to what is going on. For example, if some rogue general ordered the CW attack, it is up to Assad to give him up, take notice of the CWC and make some positive moves. If he makes absolutely no move, then he is fully accountable and the excruciating detail about who exactly ordered what is academic.
Saying that I realize some claim the US does not have “proof” about the attack coming from Assad’s forces even though US intelligence on this point has been confirmed by other countries. That’s another discussion…
Also, don’t forget the similarity of now presenting Assad Junior as the “brutal dictator!” who “cannot be trusted!” and “uses WMDs on his own people!” No non-military approach possible, in other words.
The guy Kerry and wife were dining in Damascus with in 2010….
So we played the blustery (and quite believable) Bad Cop to Russia’s Good Cop in order to get Assad to submit? I’m OK with that.
Either that or Kerry is just an incompetent warhawk. We shall see.
I don’t think Kerry was in on this.
What I mean is, Kerry is an incompetent war hawk, but for Obama he was a USEFUL incompetent warhawk.
Readers of Breitbart and Newsbusters think Assad is right for the job and the opposition is in bed with al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the kind of people who just took over a Christian village in Syria and told the folks to choose between conversion to Islam and death.
Just like old times.
You know. About 8th and 9th Centuries, AD.
I never thought I’d say this, but I agree with them. al-Nusra does makes Assad look like “Mr. Rogers”.
Of course the reason Breitabrt & Co. take that view is because these al-Nusra maniacs fulfill all their fantasies about Islam in general. It works for them, because they also think Obama’s a Kenyam communist terrorist and he’s supporting them.
A source of mine within the White House
I thought you were one of us.
Bye.