I have a lot of mixed feelings over the Ray Rice matter. First of all, I am really disappointed in Ray Rice. Because he went to Rutgers University in my home state of New Jersey, I always followed Ray Rice. I liked how he played the game and I liked how he conducted himself. He gave me no warning that he might be the kind of person to knock his girlfriend unconscious with a savage left hook.
The release of the video is controversial, and I guess it contradicts with what Ray and Janay say happened in that elevator. To that extent, the video tells the truth and is valuable. But the release is also going to be traumatizing to Janay Rice, and very few people seem to care about that.
The NFL has suspended Rice indefinitely and the Baltimore Ravens have released him. Again, I assume this double jeopardy is a result of the video contradicting the Rices’ account of what happened. In other words, it’s not just that he hit her (we knew that), but that they lied about the details.
To whatever small degree her lying adds to her shame, she mostly doesn’t deserve this. And don’t forget that they are now a married couple, so this is some strange justice. Her family loses its main source of income, perhaps forever, and this is supposed to vindicate her right not to be abused.
But, of course, this isn’t all about her. It’s also about every spouse or girlfriend of a professional athlete, and every woman everywhere. And every man.
Still, the whole spectacle is demoralizing on so many levels.
Mrs Rice has nothing to be ashamed of. A felony was committed in that elevator. Mr Rice deserves to spend some time in jail.
Rice didn’t lie to the team, according to Jason La Canfora, who tweeted that:
La Canfora also reported that the Ravens’ action was due to the NFL collective bargaining agreement:
I’m actually not sure the indefinite suspension is legal under the CBA, but it’s a moot point until a team tries to sign Rice.
As a fan of a different team in the AFC North, I take as much glee in this video being released as I would if it were a Republican politician doing the punching.
Will someone question Jason La Canfora about his tweets when the original punishment first came down?
Pittsburgh? Cleveland?
I will only agree with everything you just said if you’re a Bungles fan.
To whatever small degree her lying adds to her shame, she mostly doesn’t deserve this.
We don’t know what the original investigation uncovered. Did the NFL, and the Ravens, try to bury this tape? It’s hard to believe that the AC prosecutor, and the NFL, didn’t see this before. Was she pressured into marrying Rice? Why didn’t the AC prosecutor press charges given what this tape contains?
they nearly succeeded in burying the tape. It’s hard to believe the team hadn’t seen it; it’s impossible that the prosecutor hadn’t seen it. The hotel reports having given it to the police.
Pressued? Oh no! She covered up and her price was the marriage. NOW when he hits her it will be divorce court and she will have all of her revenge.
not just them that lied.
both the team and the NFL had given the impression that they’d seen this video before; now they’re denying it (at least per Deadspin). lots of ass-covering going on.
I can’t figure out who has been lying.
What I do know is that both the NFL and the Ravens gave the impression that Rice had been provoked. Janay even apologized publicly for her role in the confrontation. There were rumors that she spit in his face, and so on.
On the video, it looks like she said something and he hit her and then she started walking toward him and he knocked her out. No spitting or really any non-verbal provocation at all, especially before the first punch.
Basically, the league and the team led people to believe that the video was someone exonerating and now they say that they never actually saw it.
As someone who used to work in a domestic violence agency, it is not surprising at all that she lied. Victims of dv often lie to protect the abuser, due to issues of low self-esteem, codependency, fear that if he’s not convicted he’ll beat her even worse.
Nope, not at all surprising.
My sister has called the police on our father a few times since I’ve been out of the house; she did it once while I was temporarily living there. Mom lied to the cops and did everything she could to just get them out of the house. Even though one time she told my sister to call them. “How’d you get that mark?” “I fell…”
also, from a domestic violence pov, possible that she did “provoke” – (as if spitting on one’s SO is an invitation to being beaten???) it knowing it was being taped – i.e. her chance to get it on the record.
There is no excuse for what Ray Rice did…none…but is it just me, or is there some hypocrisy in the national angst over this? We all knew what happened before this tape was released. Now it’s much more unforgivable than it was before? We pump these guys up their whole lives, they are so revved up when they compete they hardly can stand it, then we expect them to shut down until the next time we want to see “controlled” violence. Ray Rice has lost his (and her) meal ticket, we feel better for it, and by the way who do you like tonight, the Lions or the Giants?? The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh, and another thing, if the Commish did not see this tape, what tape did he see (that we didn’t)?
pumped up doesn’t mean turning it on family members; there’s a problem in your logic.
The release of the video is controversial, and I guess it contradicts with what Ray and Janay say happened in that elevator. To that extent, the video tells the truth and is valuable. But the release is also going to be traumatizing to Janay Rice, and very few people seem to care about that.
I think a lot of people care about that. But it’s a very difficult, if highly common, situation. Her husband is a serial physical abuser and that’s not going to change without a lot of intervention. Perhaps that has happened, perhaps not. A lot of women stick to such situations – preferring the abuse situation to the alternative – for a variety of reasons. Having the brutal reality be brought out for everyone to see is almost certain to rekindle the trauma for her, but it may also spark real intervention to prevent this from occurring again (either by correcting his behavior or having her leave). It’s impossible to know what is best without having the details of this specific situation, but it is not correct to assume that this will only make it worse. There’s a good chance she is suffering abuse victim trauma daily.
And don’t forget that they are now a married couple, so this is some strange justice. Her family loses its main source of income, perhaps forever, and this is supposed to vindicate her right not to be abused.
Well, this is one of the main reasons abuse victims choose to stay with abusers – fear of losing the means of support. Given his income to date if they’ve done even a halfway decent job of saving both of them would have a sufficient nest egg to retire comfortably and remain separate.
I’m sorry, Boo, but I think you’ve been on a losing streak of late. In this post it sounds like you’re saying it would be better for the wife to have covered up the video so that the abusing husband could continue to draw his large income so that she might get a part of it. How would you apply that to a couple that wasn’t in the spotlight and ultra-rich? Say, a couple where the husband was, say, a policeman?
But he is not a policeman. He is an athlete and they can rape and assault with impunity.
I said it was a strange kind of justice. I didn’t say it wasn’t better than the alternative. And I don’t know if Ray Rice is a serial abuser or not. He might be. But she married him after this incident which indicates to me that she at least trusts him not to do it again. Maybe that is misplaced trust, but it makes it less likely in my eyes that she’s had multiple violent confrontations with him.
Whether she’s right or wrong, she clearly didn’t want her husband to lose his career. So, this is a strange situation for her, to say the least.
I really have no idea where you get the trust impression. It could easily be mercenary or maybe she thinks she deserves it somehow. I don’t think there’s evidence enough to do more than she ylate.
*speculate not she ylate. My fingers are too big for this tablet….
But she married him after this incident which indicates to me that she at least trusts him not to do it again.
By what sort of logic is this? How does it indicate that at all?
I know Geov has shared his own experiences with domestic abuse before on this forum, and I don’t know if he feels comfortable doing so again, but I know I would appreciate his input on the matter.
Okay, maybe she blames herself or she doesn’t trust him but is willing to take the risk.
These things are possible.
But it’s also possible that she made a rational decision to trust him and that she married him because she believes he won’t knock her unconscious the next time they have a fight.
All we’re doing is speculating here.
But, while we’re speculating, we shouldn’t assume that Ray Rice is a serial abuser. We shouldn’t assume that she’s secretly terrified of him.
If someone did that to my son or daughter, I’d want them to leave. If someone did that to me, I’d leave. But, all I know in this case is that she is not happy to have that video go viral and cost her family most of their income. And that’s not the kind of justice I’d like to see for a victim of domestic violence. The only thing that wins here is the principle that you don’t hit people, especially men hitting women. That’s an important principle to hold up, but it’s application in this case is not working out in an ideal way.
I also think the NFL looks like shit here from every angle.
I think they’ve been dishonest. They doled out a ridiculously mild penalty initially. And then they changed the rules to be more appropriately harsh, which was fine, but then they retroactively nailed Rice with an even harsher penalty that the one they devised for players going forward.
Other than covering their ass, there is no justification for doing that unless Rice lied to them. But did they even say that he lied? I tried finding a statement on their rationale but I didn’t find one.
If he abuses her, trust is not even a category; abuser typically cuts the abused off from their other relationships, manipulates the abused to perceive themselves as totally dependent; since the abuse is generally random, depends on his mood not any “cause” though the abuser always finds a reason to blame the abused for something, presumably she was afraid not to marry him. You should read more about domestic violence.
It bothers me that I feel the need to defend Ray Rice in any way, especially when I have no idea whether or not he deserves defending in any way. But people should at least [consider the evidence https://www.facebook.com/paul.coughlin.10/posts/10152208227326962%5D before they leap to the conclusion that he is a serial abuser. There are people who know him who do not believe this was part of a pattern of behavior. They could be wrong. But they at least have the advantage of having interacted with him enough to make better judgments of his character than I can make.
For the people who don’t care if it’s a pattern or not, I am not talking to you. I agree that the one event was bad enough. He should have been suspended indefinitely and only been allowed to appeal after getting counseling, demonstrating good behavior for a sustained period of time, and doing some community service.
I am only talking about this at all in the context of how the victim is making out in this. And she was doing a lot better yesterday than she is doing today. From that perspective, this is some strange justice.
I should read more to see where the questions are, that this was a one time incident. what argues against it being a one time event, for me, however, is that it was in a public place, or semi-public.
I tried googling “Ray Rice” and “serial abuser” and I got almost nothing. The main thing that showed up was an article complaining that boxer Floyd Mayweather is a serial abuser and that there is nowhere near the same amount of outrage in his case as in this one. The clear implication of that is that Mayweather has a pattern of this behavior that is lacking in Ray Rice.
I am not going to stick my neck out for a guy who used that level of violence against his girlfriend. I won’t predict that it was a one-time deal. I won’t assume the best. I won’t give his wife the benefit of any doubt as to her good judgment in staying with him.
But, at the same time, I am not going to assume that this is a pattern of behavior.
The evidence we have is basically the video tapes. They record one incident. Other than that, all we have is what the people who know this couple have to say.
There hasn’t been one allegation from anyone that there was ever another example of Ray Rice using violence against women. I have not seen one acquaintance come out and issue a statement that Rice is dangerous or that she should get away from him.
As I stated in the original article, I followed Ray Rice’s career with some interest, and he never gave any warning signs of being capable of something like this, and that’s reflected in what the people who have worked with him say, both his teammates and coaches and the organizers he’s worked with in charities and anti-bullying campaigns.
So, you have the videos and the obvious truth of the matter about what he did and what he is capable of, and then you have all the other evidence or lack of evidence.
Is she in an abusive marriage and acting like a typical battered woman? Or is she is a good relationship that friends and loved ones should support?
I am going to come down on this as totally uncertain. For me, better safe than sorry. But it’s not my choice.
possible this was the only instance. [just watched the video]. but the aftermath is pretty chilling where he lugs her around like a sack of flour. other point, therapists say if this happens before marriage, inmost instances, after marriage it gets worse.
but my guess about the circumstances was completely wrong. she looks out of it [drunk whatever] but he waits until they’re, supposedly out of public view, in the elevator, to punch her. that’s a bad sign imo because it’s less impulsive, more payback
For me, the worst part of the video is how Rice reacted once he realized that she was unconscious. His reaction was inappropriate and demonstrated disorganized thought.
It’s quite possible that he was intoxicated. And, if so, they probably were both intoxicated. That wouldn’t be too surprising for a couple leaving a casino.
You could be right that he was irritated with her before they got on the elevator and erroneously believed that he had privacy on the elevator to lash out.
There’s nothing on that video that is comforting in any way.
On that, we agree.
Well, I also agree that in other videos and pictures he comes across as a nice guy and she comes across as a much less appealing person. I watched some of the discussion linked to the video, very interesting and constructive the way it’s being discussed, impressive. It’s a topic that is painfully current for me due to some family developments. On the silver lining side, I wonder if the way this is being discussed, the kind of people being interviewed on the sports casts as well as Ferguson discussion just would not have happened pre-Obama, his model of achievement and lovely family life.
As I was trying to say, this is some strange justice:
The amazing thing to me is the arrogance of the outside opinions. This woman had a bad experience. I am not making excuses for Ray Rice. I’ve never hit my wife, and don’t like men who do.
But everyone can make a mistake, and his wife appears to have forgiven him. After all, she married him after the incident.
You would think that people would listen to her, a grown woman, and ask “OK, Janay, what do you think?” Her answer appears to be that she has forgiven him. If she can forgive him, what right do the rest of society have to pass judgment on her for her own opinion?
It’s different for a repeat offender. But I have heard nothing indicating that this guy has the pattern. It appears to be a single bad moment.
It should take more than a single blow, forgiven by the recipient, to destroy a man’s career. But I guess us atheists are just a bunch of softies. All the Christians want him thrown to the lions.
I don’t have a problem with an indefinite suspension.
I have a problem with shifting the rules around arbitrarily.
I think they should have suspended him from the get-go and said that basically he can come back in a year and appeal his suspension.
And I would have told him what was expected of him if he wanted to win that appeal.
If it was a one-time deal, then he can sit out a year and come back after demonstrating good behavior, getting counseling, doing some community service, and getting professionals to sign off on him being readmitted.
Your suggestion sounds very reasonable. As far as her blaming the media goes – that’s ridiculous. They’re celebrities and it’s an important issue, being taken seriously for a change. I think a lot of battered wives are going to thank the media for making that video available. And what he did was against the law (and it took a lot of effort to get those laws passed).
I think what she may be responding to is the counseling she got probably was something along the lines of how to properly decide to stay or go in the relationship. And once having made the decision to stay what needs to happen to make that safe, loving, meaningful, benefitial, etc. A big part of that will emphasize the need to total honesty, humility (not humiliation), openness, willingness and learning to stand up for what she needs and let go of stuff she may think she needs but doesn’t. Acceptance of the truth about herself, about Ray, about everything is key. Ray probably got very similar counsel.
But that is tough when this is playing out in the media and stuff keeps getting brought up again and again (much of it untrue or irrelevant) about her and Ray and what happened and what other people should have done or not done. They admitted all this to anyone who asked and many who didn’t and have been trying to see where that truth takes them, but the media and social media is still stuck on square one.
well, yes, for what you write. I’d be more accepting if they just said no comment, they’re working on their relationship and spending time with the families. The issue is so important, imo it’s a good thing that the media is spending so much air time on it – and that’s what I heard some of the sports commentators saying. Probably too much to ask that she/ they would say, well, it’s an important issue, maybe the tape will help other people though it’s painful for her/ them to have it being discussed all around now.
terrifying is a better adjective than reprehensible for what I’m trying to say
Twitter needed revenge, even if Janay Rice did not.
There is little good that comes from social media anymore. Every high profile crime victim is victimized twice… first by the perpetrator, then by the media frenzy.
I think that article is nonsense. – as if she’d forget the incident if the tape weren’t out there? she presumably already relives it again and again. and she doesn’t have to watch the tape, she was there
The NFL sees a PR problem and deals with it as a PR problem. As someone tweeted, there wasn’t a problem when the team management and NFL saw the tape, but it became a problem when the public saw the tape.
Has this sort of problem become more common in the NFL or is the media such that the public hears about it more often? I can’t tell.
But like most celebrity stories, the people behind the images and empathy for them rapidly is sapped by the way the media frames the story. The reporting and the PR management have not been helpful to anyone on a whole number of levels.
For people asking “Why did she marry him?” Check out the WhyIStayed hastag on twitter and check out the heartbreaking answers! While you are at it, also check out the # WhenILeft timeline as well.
#WhyIStayed
#WhenILeft
While the whole thing is regrettable, it is also clear that the NFL has victimized this woman.
Why did she lie? Easy peezie. Her husband was going to make a boatload of money.
Now they fired him. So, while she lied to protect him, and protect his income, the video has now revealed the truth.
The NFL, in firing him for a single act, admittedly a cruel one, has now victimized his wife. How is he going to make the kind of money he would have made in the NFL?
I am not making light of the violence, which was bad. However, there are larger issues, and she was protecting him for the larger issue. He went from being a highly paid athlete to being another unemployed black dude with a bad reputation. And that makes her a 2x loser.
I had this same thought and would completely understand if she did agree to put the incident behind her to protect his… their income.
Meh. Assault domestic or otherwise can’t be tolerated by the league. They are going to do what they need to do and shouldn’t have needed this video to act this harshly (how’d they think she got knocked out? If anything this showed she moved on him… As she said she did).
But the cops arrested them both initially then charged Ray and agreed to his plea with her blessings. That is the right outcome as well with or without the video.
Sadly Rice has become the poster child for domestic assault and not the countless asshats who rape, throw girl friends down stairs, etc. and get away with it to earn millions of dollars.
I’ve known of Rice since his high school days and he has always been a hard working stand up guy admired by his teammates and coaches and devoted to the mom who raised him.http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor…-super-journey
Even through this whole thing he stood up, said he was wrong, and hasn’t fought any of the charges or punishments. He didn’t lawyer up or make non-apology apologies like “mistakes were made”. If anything I think it is possible that the way he has conducted himself other than this may be why he only got two games originally.
I hope the best for him and his wife but he is going to have to live with this. But as a benchmark Warren Moon and his wife hit a similar sad bump and got past it together without the hoopla this has stirred up – mostly because there was no video IMO.
The NFL is worried about ratings too. Losing them that is. This is PR damage control for them. It is the only reason they give a crap about anything anyone does off the field.
Again, the Rice’s aren’t the ones who didn’t release the tape (even if it only showed what we all knew happened). They have cooperated with the authorities, the Ravens and the league. They haven’t denied or fought anything. They immediately sought counseling for their problem and until now haven’t played this out in the media.
It seems to me that they have turned the whole thing over, surrendered and have tried to “do the next right thing” but it just keeps getting worse for them. That was Janay’s point and reason for speaking out today.
Simply compare their behavior to oh, say Randy Moss’ various domestic and legal problems going back to college.
Or for grins here is a list of NFL arrests going back to 2000 http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
And an interesting analysis from a credible source http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/t…g-nfl-players/
The fact that the act was on tape has nothing to do with the crime or it’s severity. He knocked her out. That was never in question. The first tape showed that. Rice never denied it. The cops arrested and later charged him. They didn’t lie to the cops about what happened. The cops investigated and a judge allowed him to apply and was accepted into a first time offender program with counseling and monitoring. Similar programs are used by countless people in every state all the time for whom prison doesn’t seem appropriate and for those who are not likely to be repeat offenders. Sorry, but punching your partner doesn’t automatically land you in prison any more than punching someone at an Eagles game. It is up to a judge.
Domestic violence is a horrible thing and it happens too much. And it leads too often to death. I won’t make apologies for Rice any more than he has made excuses. The violence is ugly, as shown by how the country has recoiled at the latest video. But that’s how it looks even if it happens all the time and don’t often witness it. Except for kids who too often witness in their home and are damaged. And there is much violence and psychological abuse directed at men. Some reports have women instigating violence more than men, but with less injuries and deaths. Some put it “only” at 40% of domestic violence. http://www.batteredmen.com/NISVS.htm.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2…estic-violence.
It is bad stuff and a lot is going around. It is not crazy that his fiancé said she had a role too or that she married him anyway or that they both say they want to work together to be better people.
My point is that because this was on tape people are horrified like never before (which might be a good thing) even if they don’t understand it any better. And that while wrong, people of all types get caught in it. It is just sad that Rice became the poster child when there are so many more deserving scumbags who weren’t caught on tape. Again the parallels to Moon and his wife are similar except his went to trial over his wife’s objects and a jury only needed a few minutes to acquit him.
It’s the video. Without that, this would be receding.
It’s really unfortunate. In this society, if you commit the Offense of the Week, you get no second chance. This guy made a mistake. He raised his fist, one single time apparently, and hit this woman.
She went on to marry him, not seek prosecution, and tried to get the thing buried. Why can’t we pay attention to her? The NFL, in putting this guy on indefinite probation, has really injured her much more than Rice did.
If this was a third offense, dump him. But others have said that he is not a repeat offender. I think that is important.
And what about the next guy who beats his wife who is an NFL player? You think she is going to complain. No way in HELL, Jack. She is gonna think “OK, we get $100,000 a week, and I get cracked in the face once a month. If I complain, I will still get cracked in the face, but Joe will get thrown out of the NFL, and we will make $20,000 per year. So, I will just shut up and say nothing.”
This is going to stop women from coming forward.
often the man has seen his mother hit by father and internalized that it is both “normal” (happened often in household) and reprehensible (someone hurting his mother and he’s just a kid, can’t defend her). His shock at what he did may explain Rice’s strange behavior when the elevator stopped and he just stood around staring at her and trying to move her like a bag of flour. – of course we can’t know, just a thought.
What a disgrace.