I don’t know whether or not Joe Biden is going to run for president, but at least I know now that he won’t be appearing in the first debate:
Vice President Joe Biden has extended his window for deciding whether to jump into the 2016 presidential campaign, several Democrats say, allowing the contest to play out even longer before he answers one of the biggest questions hanging over the race for the White House.
He is not preparing for the first Democratic debate on October 13 in Las Vegas and is not expected to participate, people close to him say, because he feels no pressure to reach a decision by then. He is likely to reveal his plans in the second half of October.
According to Jeff Zeleny’s reporting for CNN, Team Biden is better prepared than you might think:
Campaign managers in key early-voting states have already been identified. Dozens of major donors have stepped forward. Domestic and foreign policy advisers are waiting in the wings.
Ed Kilgore is highly skeptical that “the campaign is right there at the failsafe point, loaded with money and volunteers and just awaiting word from The Chief.”
I’m not really all that skeptical about it, actually. And I think the First Look folks are overwrought and basically ridiculous:
…as Biden appears to stretch his timeframe (remember when we were supposed to get a decision at the end of summer?), here’s an honest truth: The Biden waiting game is no longer doing him or his party any favors. With Clinton and Sanders having already raised a combined $115 million (more on that below), waiting to start raising money isn’t going to help him compete financially with Clinton, let alone Sanders. The waiting game has paralyzed parts of the non-Hillary wing of the Democratic establishment. And as our NBC/WSJ poll shows, Biden disproportionally takes away support from Clinton when the vice president is included in the polling. As we’ve said before, if Biden wants to run and win (and start preparing to build a $1 billion enterprise for the general election in our Super PAC/501c4 Era), he has to get in ASAP. He doesn’t have until late October or early November. Sure, we get that Biden seems to be waiting to see how October fares for Hillary (see above). But that waiting game comes at a cost.
Here’s the deal. I don’t think Joe Biden needs to worry about having enough money to compete with either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. If he gets in, he’ll have a decent enough donor network to begin with. He doesn’t need to raise his name recognition and he can get free press any time he wants it. There are lots of Obama loyalists who will want to protect his legacy, others who will want to hedge their bets, and Biden has a pretty healthy network he developed over his career in the Senate. I guess the way to put it is that he doesn’t need as much money as the others and he’ll be able to compete in the early states even with a money disadvantage.
What he needs more than money is an organization. He needs field troops. It’s here where he’ll have the hardest time competing because the Clintons have a huge headstart, there’s two of them, and they did this in a big way just eight years ago. Meanwhile, Sanders has a growing army of progressive true-believers who will outwork anything Biden or Clinton can come up with.
But I don’t see how this disadvantage is all that time-sensitive. It’d be better to have a couple extra weeks to identify and mobilize your shock troops, but that’s more about mitigating a structural weakness than crafting a winning strategy. It’s better for Biden to get in at a moment when it makes sense to the voters than a moment when it makes sense to Chuck Todd. So, if Clinton doesn’t do great in the first debate, or she looks bad at the Benghazi! hearing, or Sanders continues to dominate her in Iowa and New Hampshire and catches up in the national polls, then Biden coming in will be seen less as stepping on Clinton’s toes than rescuing the party from a dud of a nominee.
Biden the Savior!
It’ll look a lot better than Biden the “Not Sure if I’ve Got the Fire in the Belly” guy we’re seeing right now.
You know, his son Beau just died. Reportedly, Beau asked him to run for president. I can’t really imagine what that’s like, can you?
If Biden’s Hamlet routine is a little inconvenient for “the party” and some people who are trying to game this out, well, too goddamned bad.
He’s got time to make a decision, and we have time to wait for it.
I hear his friends say that he won’t run and other friends say that he will run.
All I know is that if he runs he’ll be a little more formidable that Carly Freaking Fiorina or Ben Carson.
I hope he does run. And I hope we waits until he’s good and ready to tell us his decision.
Lastly, I find the whole narrative that he’ll only do it to save us from Bernie to be a load of manure. If he does it, he’ll do it because he thinks he can win. Perhaps he’ll do it to honor his son’s dying wish. He won’t do it just to spite progressives.
Yeah, I admire the man’s career somewhat and feel sorry for his loss – that’s brutal. But ….
This.
I mean, if Biden wants to run for President again, it’s his right, but face it, he isn’t going to win the nomination or the Presidency. So, what would be the point?
If the only answer is Free Will, that seems pretty weak when the question is “why run?”.
Graham said, “Why not?” when asked why he was running. Doesn’t seem to be working out well for him.
I think the real reason for all of these nobody candidates that literally have zero chance of winning the nomination is money, a possible job at Fox, money, and earning bonafides with the base if they’re still a sitting Senator, Governor, whatever.
I’m also not 100% certain how 501(c3-c4s) work in terms of paying salaries out of the donations, but these campaigns are also a little bit of “makework” for the candidates family and friends, to give them some experience working for a grifter’s campaign so they can leapfrog out into the wingnut welfare sphere proper later, i.e. 2016 and beyond.
CU definitely made the fundraising task appear less daunting. As the availability of SuperPac monies appears to be close to unlimited, the seat is open, and the party elites didn’t have a strong designee not surprising that anyone that views his/her self as POTUS material jumped in. Overlooked is that primary campaign funds are limited and spread out over sixteen candidates makes it harder to get fewer dollars and fewer dollars make competing against a dozen other candidates that much harder.
The formal rule — no coordination between a campaign and SuperPac — has shut down PAC “make work” opportunities for family, and at least some of the big money PAC donors are watching how their money is spent, and therefore not much space for the candidate’s useless friends. Any SuperPac “make work” jobs are more likely to go to friends and family of the donors. The Pauls may have found some way around this, but it’s more likely that they’ll continue using their campaign funds for family employment.
Sounds about right.
I’ve thought about and even asked others if they were interested in g̶r̶i̶f̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ running a conservative SuperPac for 2016, here and in real-life. While I’m sure it isn’t easy to simply make one and then pay yourself a huge reward, it is to some effect a Robin Hood/Grifting the Grifters/ratfcking exercise that while potentially profitable, still requires work without guaranteed pay-off. Not to mention I’d have to cognitive dissonance away my conscience, which while possible, is one of the few things that separates me from the conservative monsters I loathe.
The psychological cost for such a possibly worthy effort would be enormous. A price that no healthy person should be willing to pay except in extraordinary situations. What you’re proposing is ratfucking and only sociopaths are capable of doing it for more than a few minutes. But who want to be beholden to a sociopath when they succeed?
The more the merrier, I say. Yay, democracy.
Except I like Biden, and I’d rather see him retire after being a successful VP than a failed (for the third time?) presidential candidate.
He doesn’t have a constituency that’s not already being served. What does he bring that Clinton doesn’t bring more of? Connection to Obama voters? Insider juice? That he won’t be depicted as a ‘dud’ in every Corporal Media outlet fourteen seconds after he declares?
He’ll be neck deep in plagiarism and Anita Hill in a minute. They’ll turn some unremarkable ‘gaffe’ into a litmus test. Crazy Uncle Joe! They’ll do that to any Democrat, of course, but the idea that Biden won’t be seen as a ‘dud of nominee’ if they manage to dud-ify Clinton is nuts.
Yes, Biden’s great but he’s run for president twice before and got absolutely nowhere. If he wants my advise (and surprisingly, he hasn’t called me up yet to ask) I’d say–Joe, don’t run!!! You can easily find some way to be useful after the next election. Guinea Worm has been cured, but there’s probably a lot of other things you can do.
Maybe Sec Defense? But he is not Obama.
I think he’s viewed as too much of a joke and I think Beau Biden was wrong. But it’s not my decision to make.
I don’t care. Nothing good ever came of gaming the system with regard to trying to get one or another candidate (I realize that Clair McKaskil because of this type of gaming but really, if it wasn’t Missouri would we be that happy about it???).
Let the chips fall where they may, let all who wander be found and let a thousand peonies blossom.
Namaste.
I don’t see the opposition between “doing it to stop Bernie” and “doing it because he thinks he can win”. He can only stop Bernie if he wins (the primary). Otherwise, he is helping Bernie by siphoning off support from Hilary. From the perspective of stopping the Bern, it is a high-stakes gamble and a long shot. If Biden runs again and loses (and I think he will), his lasting fame will be as the professional losing candidate for President. If Bern wins, Biden will be blamed for hobbling Hilary. Really, I don’t think it makes sense to Biden to get in unless he’s sure he can win, which he may feel in his gut, but that gut has been wrong before, and his victory is objectively unlikely. If Hilary is losing to Bern, it’s not because Hilary is a weak candidate – she isn’t. It’s because the party wants a progressive populist, not a centrist. Biden is not that person and can’t rebrand enough to pretend to be – he’s too much a known quantity and too associated with Obama. I think he knows he should stay out, but has been longing to be President his whole life, and this is probably his last shot.
It is indeed, after all, a personal decision finally as to whether one wants the bother, pressure, and invective.
Biden’s organization is some informal distributed, if not grass roots, draft Biden movement. He’s been around that he has friends or allies in all 50 states, most affluent enough to front a local campaign. With money and media he can ramp up a SuperTuesday introduction and write off Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina. A Clinton falter media focuses attention on him going forward. And on the fate of Clinton delegates.
Meanwhile the second piece of the unwanted de facto alliance in Syria falls into place. Iran is sending troops to operate in coordination with Russia’s operation in support of Assad. The US faces being an ally of Russia of getting in the way of ridding the area of ISIS. If ISIS is gone in November of 2016, Biden might be in really strong shape. That is more likely without conflicting objectives than it it is by dribbling McCain’s desire to help “moderate” jihadis and putting US boots on the ground.
It is going to be instructive to see what a committed force with adequate arms does to ISIS. That group does not waffle about who they support.
Biden never cracked 3% in 2007. Beltway <del>morons</del> insiders may love him, the Infotainment Mediums may love him, Jesus may love him, the rest of us don’t care.
Doesn’t anyone else find it a bit creepy that Biden’s recently deceased son is playing a major role in the opinions of those urging and those discouraging Biden from throwing his hat in the ring?
It’s no secret that Biden has long aspired to be President. But where were all these supporters and political heavy hitters in 2008 when the then long-term Senator ran against one sitting Senator in her second term, another in his first term, and a third with one term former Senator and former VP nominee on a losing ticket? In raw votes, it was pretty damn close between Clinton and Obama. Take away the leftie vote for Obama and the status quo vote for Clinton, and add back into Clinton’s numbers the “make a statement” voters that chose Obama in ’08, the remainder of that Obama base gets skinny.
The only way he could have an entry point without creating an enormous amount of outrage among Clinton and Sanders voters is if Clinton and Sanders are both “meh” in the first debate and O’Malley isn’t turned into an overnight superstar taking huge numbers of supporter from Clinton and Sanders. If Clinton shines, no Joe. If Sanders shines, … Didn’t something happen recently in the UK Labour Party?
I agree with you – from the Maureen Dowd “kitchen table” column (at least partially made up, I’m certain) to allies pushing the legacy of Beau, I just find it so distasteful.
And it’s not like he’s a homerun candidate anyway, so I don’t like to see a grieving 73-year-old man pushing into what is likely to be a final career-topping loss.
Beltway sentimental romanticism is getting as maudlin as the contrived Christian form of it on Facebook.
Someone’s feeling the Bern, and not in an enthusiastic way.
Someone’s feeling the Bern, and not in an enthusiastic way.
And they’re looking for a fire extinguisher.
Yeah, it’s empty, the super forgot to refill it. Sorry. Bern, Bern, Bern…and more Bern.
That’s because they delegating having it refilled to DWS.
I think it’s rather the panic of Clinton’s high unfavorables, which were a topic at the NH Dem Convention. Everyone assumed 6 months ago she would kill any GOP candidate.
Biden’s rise is traceable to Clinton’s decline.
Rather naive to assume that her favorable/unfavorable ratio would remain where it was six months ago and not regress closer to where it’s been when she’s been more prominent on the national stage. Other than Trump, the other GOP candidates haven’t been exposed to the harsh light of that stage; so, their numbers are all inflated.
The DEM elites chose to go into this battle with the general they have, not the fantasy general they thought they had. If Sanders is a weak as you claim he is, Clinton’s fav/unfav poll numbers should be of no concern. And instead of panicking and jumping onto a different leaky boat, they might want to focus on how to shoot holes into the hulls of the GOP contenders.
I feel sorry for O’Malley in a way. He DOES have an organization and is much more serious than Webb or Chaffee.
But Sanders has taken all the Oxygen, and it is unclear to me how O’Malley gets it back.
I don’t. That’s the way you win … by TAKING the oxygen. If someone else CAN take it away from you, you were hopeless anyway. re: Jeb! Bush?
Fladem wrote about Sanders’ potential weaknesses in the general, and I take them seriously. Though I support Sanders, Biden, especially representing Obama 3 [in contrast to Clinton3] will be good.
Biden doesn’t have known weaknesses? All of them do. Voters should weigh all of the candidates’ strengths and weaknesses within the context of today and plausible scenarios over the next twelve months.
Take one — a downturn, and not a big one, in the economy. Assuming the GOP nominates a candidate that’s not obviously crazy (I know a big assumption), who benefits from that? How would Clinton, Sanders, and Biden each fare under that scenario? Which one would be hurt the most?
But that’s why I’m not freaking out about a potential socialist winning the Nomination, Marie.
ALL OF THE R’s ARE INSANE!!!! Every last one of them. And they all SOUND insane. None of these guys could get elected to dog catcher anywhere outside the Deep South.
Pataki: Thinking that a liberal NY former Gov will win over the AL crowd?
Jindal: Who wants to live in Louisana now?
Carson: Last I looked, he’s STILL black.
Carly: Fired with prejudice in 2005. Not hired for anything since. Beaten handily by a “wounded dove” in 20freaking10.
Rubio: Sub 50 approval ratings in FLORIDA.
Trump: Operation WetBack?
Jebya#: 13% in Florida Presidential Primary. IN FLORIDA!!!! Behind Rubio and Trump.
Cruz: seriously? This guy is is a Paranoid Schizophrenic. No one in the Senate can stand him.
Christie: Can’t even carry New Jersey … much less Nevada.
Huckabee, Paul, Graham, Santorum: Delusional. Totally delusional.
I honestly don’t know of ANYONE reasonable that the Dem could run who WOULDN’T win. Coattails? I don’t know about that. Govern? Different question. Handle the Foreign stuff? Time will tell.
Beat the R turkeys currently running? Yeah. No problem.
We agree — but underestimating the opposition is a good way to lose. Reagan was a loon in 1966 and a very fine, incumbent governor lost to him. Nixon was as politically dead as a dodo until 1968. GHWB was so lame by early 1988 that Pat Robertson annihilated him in the HI caucus and he came in a weak third behind Dole and Robertson in IA. Early in the GE, Dukakis has a large lead. And GWB is a joke – the not funny type of joke.
They do have two or maybe three candidates that they could reconstitute far enough ahead of the GE to be competitive with a weakened DEM nominee.
you fail to read carefully what I wrote. I am concerned about the particular weaknesses Fladem pointed out.
I read it. You and I reach different conclusions and projections from the weaknesses fladem cites. We don’t get any mulligans in elections; so it’s up to each of us to decide on the best shot to take.
I love me some Biden. He’s a smart man and a good debater with a long record of service. He’s likeable. He seems to retain an awareness that he’s human despite his many successes. However, he flamed out in 2008 and I have no reason to think that his campaign skills or the current political climate would make this a better year for him.
I’m dissatisfied with the selection of Democratic candidates. HRC is a legacy candidate who is beholden to too many people. I have yet to be convinced Sanders is electable, although I’m glad he’s trying and doing well. I would love for another strong liberal candidate to run.
Can we please draft someone talented and at the top of their game? I’d love for Elizabeth Warren or John Hickenlooper to run.
Way too late to draft “another strong liberal candidate.”
Warren lacks breadth in national policy issues and election campaign experience. If she had ten years under her belt at this point, she would likely be formidable. Hickenlooper did better than Udall in the 2014 election but not impressively so against a weak opponent.
The only DEM politician that comes close to what you’d like to see is Sherrod Brown. He would make a good candidate and fine President. A draft was the only way he would have entered the race and the window on such an effort closed in 2013 as all the decks were cleared by the DEM Party for Clinton.
I agree it’s too late, but that holds for Biden as well. If we’re going to talk about someone jumping in, that person will be too late. So if we’re going there, I’m saying Biden’s not the best choice. I’m not convinced that his tenure in the VP office will translate into that much momentum, even though a sitting VP is traditionally next in line for the party.
Don’t usually reply to my own posts – but I wanted to this:
The reason we’re all talking about drafting another candidate even though it’s way, way too late is that there is a gaping hole. As you noted, that happened because the deck was cleared for HRC, but HRC isn’t filling the deck herself. So even now, for the right person with the right energy and backing, maybe there’s a long shot chance.
When I say “clear the decks,” I include the long term strategy of building a bench limited to DLC types. Except in the safest of safe blue districts they struggle to get elected or re-elected. They’re unattractive because they’re followers and little to nothing comes from their core being. Obama slipped through the cracks when he was but half formed and therefore, still retained authenticity and a personality that made him likeable.
There have been plenty of non-DLC politicians in the Progressive caucus, but few are able to advance from there. Few even try because the odds are stacked against them within the party. Barbara Boxer seized an opportune moment in the right state (and many thought she was nuts for trying and giving up a safe House seat). Sherrod Brown was in the right place when Schumer was desperate. Not as much of an opportune opening as Boxer’s had been, but both in an opportune electoral cycle.
The GOP has been better at advancing younger blood to higher level positions at both the federal and state level. Look at how young Cotton, Gardner, Cruz, and Rubio are. When Harkin retired, who did Democrats nominate? A dull 55 year old three term congressman that had lost his seat two years earlier due somewhat to redistricting. The GOP nominated a 43 year old female firecracker. They’re awful but young and therefore, more likely to be around for a while. Ed Markey didn’t have an opportunity to move up until he was 66 years old.
It’s all a very fine mess from which to draw the leadership we need today. (New Labour did the same thing in the UK.)
The only deadline Biden has is from getting on the ballot and getting delegate slates.
Biden is a sitting Vice-President with name recognition near 100% and very high favorables. In the week after he announces, if it is managed successfully, he is likely to be running pretty close to Clinton in most places.
If he does get in, I think Biden will force Clinton left as they both chase Sanders voters.
“The only deadline Biden has is from getting on the ballot and getting delegate slates.”
I don’t know about delegate slates, but he has just over five weeks to decide based on filing deadlines to get on the ballot. The first deadline is November 9, 2015 for the Arkansas primary. After that, Texas’s deadline is the 10th and Louisiana’s is the 20th. All three are before New Hampshire’s on November 27th. The Granite State may have the earliest primary, but not the earliest deadline.
http://ballotpedia.org/Important_dates_in_the_2016_presidential_race
Speaking of filing deadlines, the earliest deadline was yesterday for the South Carolina GOP primary. All fifteen of the current occupants of the clown car have filed.
I think his age, the campaign and the prospects of losing are holding back.
Holding off until there is a clear leader in dem polls and then offering himself to continue as VP seems to me most likely. It preserves and extend obama’s legacy (esp it he hooks up with Bernie), does something to honor Beau’s wishes, and IMO opinions trumps anybody the GOP puts up.
I consistently get crickets when I mention this (and yet here I go again), but his pushing of the Rave Act leaves too bitter a taste in my mouth to ever vote for him. OK, I guess I’d have to if it were between him and one of those lunatics the Republicans call candidates, but there is no other politician that I feel is personally responsible for getting me buzzed by police helicopters with my infant son on my knee.
If he issued an apology for that I might consider him, but to be honest he doesn’t thrill me anyway.
The Hyde Amendment. The late term abortion bill. More Catholics on the Supreme Court. No thanks.