The pollsters have surely been scrambling since the MI earthquake to make up for the identifiable deficits in the MA and MI pre-election polling in the upcoming states. Those deficits have varied from one state to the next, but fall within a two identifiable categories:
- Underestimate of the 18-29 percentage of voters and overestimate of the >64 portion.
- Slight undersampling of male voters and oversampling of female voters.
In MI, there was an oversampling of AA voters. The drop-off of AA primary voters from ’08 has been consistent across most states that have already voted. So far, hasn’t mattered in states with an AA population much higher than the national average and VA and TX.
Those factors can be adjusted for, at least to some extent since MI. But would that correct for the wide variances in polls to actual seen in other states? The only state so far that behaved normally is Texas. The “undecideds” or other were 5.7% and they split proportionally to HRC’s and Sanders numbers (2.9% and 1.2%). The observable DEM primary variables (gender, race, and class) were consistent with the polls. And they split in accordance with three variables: race, gender, and class. Not only are racism and sexism are not in operation, there is a strong preference among AAs for Obama’s designated successor and woman (who significantly outnumber men in the DEM electorate) prefer the female. The contaminating variable is class. But other than among the highest income earners, it’s relative to where one was (or perceived one and or one’s family to be) yesterday compared to today.
An example may help clarify that last point because it’s not straightforward. If one is either a woman or an AA and one’s class self-idenfication hasn’t changed in the past decade or two, HRC gets that vote six or more times out of ten. If class identification has dropped from say middle class to lower middle class, Bernie wins by a similar margin. So, why is that not appearing earlier in the polls? It’s not easy for some people to acknowledge publicly that they’re feeling like a loser in this economy. Especially difficult when the media, and very specifically by DEM party and large numbers of ordinary DEM partisans, trumpets how well the economy is doing.
Over the decades after WWII, more people began to self-identify as middle class and fewer as working class. Part of it was an authentic assessment of their personal financial well-being and part of it was delusion. Millenials seem not to be buying into the delusion. And reality is breaking through to those living and working in regions that are slipping economically. Boston metro is doing okay but outside that region life is tougher. And that’s how they voted.
Consider the following:
MA – age 18-29: HRC 35% Bernie 65% and age 30-44: HRC 55% and Sanders 44%
MI – age 18-29: HRC 19% Bernie 81% and age 30-44: HRC 42% and Sanders 53%
Older people in both MA and MI preferred HRC, but by much stronger margins in MI than MA (that’s not a typo).
So, what can this tell us about today/tonight? Here’s what the pollsters have given us:
FL: 61.1% HRC and 31.5% Bernie
IL: 48.3% HRC and 46% Bernie
MO: 46.5% HRC and 43.5 Bernie
NC: 57% HRC and 33% Bernie
OH: 50.8% HRC and 42.5% Bernie
FL was hit harder than many of states in the Great Recession, but suspect the self-identified class status hasn’t significantly changed. It could break as TX did (undecideds 2:1 for HRC), a regression to HRC as in TN (59% polls to 66% actual) and VA, or something like MA. The first two scenarios seem more likely to me than the last, but would very much like to be wrong. HRC wins. (HRC with 61% to 65%)
IL has that unique Rahm factor going for it. The “undecideds” will break more like MA than MI and HRC more likely to hold onto her current polling number. Sanders wins. (Sanders with 50.1% to 55%).
MO will follow IL’s lead. Sanders wins. (Sanders with 50.1% to 52%.)
NC is looking too much like VA for it to deviate from that pattern. HRC wins. (HRC with 65% to 69%)
OH is the toughest one of all to project. The economy never seems to play as much of role in OH (and MO for that matter) election outcomes as would be expected. The MI primary results appear to have impacted the latest OH polling numbers with downticks for HRC and upticks for Sanders. HRC’s seven to eight point winning margin could now be baked in. My head says, HRC with 54% and my gut says Sanders with 50.1% (hate it when my head and gut disagree and in such situations and neither has a superior track record to the other).
What I’ll be looking for tonight is if it is happening across the board. By that I mean that Sanders beats my lowest estimates of his share of the vote in four out of the five states.
Another great ad from the Bernie Sanders campaign.
UPDATE – Well, that was fun. Not. Still a few more votes to count but the percentages won’t change by much. Life must be good for all those middle class Americans that earn less than $50,000 a year in FL, IL, NC, and OH (and possibly MO). Perhaps one day it will dawn on them that $50,000/year doesn’t make them middle class.
IL — projected 50.1/49.9 Sanders; actual 50.4/48.8 HRC
FL – projected 65/35 HRC; actual 64.5/33.3 HRC
MO – projected 50.1/49.9 Sanders; actual 49.6/49.4 HRC
NC – projected 65/35 HRC; actual 54.6/40.8 HRC
OH – projected 54/46 HRC; actual 56.5/42.8 HRC
The kids (version 2.0 — “never trust anyone over the age of 44”) get it as far as the right thing to do, but continue to miss by letting the Boomers and Gen Q punch above their weight with a higher voter participation rate. Yet, so close.
Going way out on a limb and defining what I’ll be looking at:
Sanders better than:
35% in FL
50.1% in IL
50.1% in MO
35% in NC
48% in OH
AND
Clinton worse than
63% in FL
48% in IL
47% in MO
62% in NC
from your lips to god’s ears ………we shall soon see.
Only slightly optimistic for Sanders, but no where near a game changer for his campaign. None of HRC’s unforced errors have seemed to catch up with her. So far she’s a teflon coated as Trump.
Voted at 11:00AM. Judges told me turn out was light. Maybe lots of early voting which would be good for HRC. Our precinct had two touch terminals and four portable stands for paper ballots. Both machines and two stands in use. Four people waiting for the machines. We asked for paper ballots (we prefer them) and voted immediately. Most of voters looked not significantly younger than ourselves. i.e. 60+ But then it was 11:00AM on a work day. Still, it doesn’t look good for Bernie.
Absentee and early voting always favors the more conservative candidate. One reason I dislike them. And there were a boatload of early/absentee ballot in IL and OH. Now that they’re getting to ballots cast today, the numbers are moving in Bernie’s favor in IL, MO, OH, and even NC. Not anywhere near enough to win in NC, but she’s below and he’s above a benchmark I set where it’s interesting.
I should have learned by now that Ohio always disappoints me.
Turns out it was a total wipeout. Kos and Booman were right. I’m done with the Democratic party.
What a shame there are too many DEM female voters in IL like your sister. (Too many women, or too few men, as well.) The kids (now up through age 44) did fine. Old people are the nemesis of positive change. They cling to the worst of the past.
For anyone you know that voted for HRC, if they ever complain about Rahm, be sure to remind them that they endorsed him by proxy.
Marie3, you’re a real piece of work. I could say piece of something else, but you get the idea.
Do go on — because I don’t “get the idea.”
Hey rover 27, Why have you concluded that the poster in question is ‘a real piece of work’? Or don’t you know what the expression means? As far I can tell, it’s hardly applicable here. Please correct me if I am wrong.
pretty good assessment, though
I only nailed one out of five. Not so good. Did get closer to the actual percentages than the aggregates from the polls. There may be a recount in MO; so, there’s a chance that I could still get this one right.
Haven’t a clue as to what happened in NC. Compared to the other states in the south it sticks out like a sore thumb. Have heard that Bernie did well in rural areas (a pattern we’ve seen in other state outside the south), but there plenty of rural areas in all of the southern states and nothing like this was seen in any of them. As I know zilch about the areas and the economies over the past couple of decades will set his aside and only reconsider it if something else similarly odd pops up.
On IL probably gave too much weight (the danger of a little bit of knowledge) to the conflict between Rahm and the AA community and too little weight to their continuing affection for Obama. Still it was extremely close. Have set this one aside to look at more closely.
My spreadsheet is now such a mess that I can’t find anything I thought I’d recorded. So, guess I need to redo it before looking at anything from yesterday.
I wish I’d checked 2008 NC results, otherwise I wouldn’t have thought it’d be like VA. Very similar results: 56-41, Obama winning.
So really, the only surprise is Ohio. Still can’t understand that one.
How would that have helped? Obama got 56% in SC in ’08 as well.
After SC in ’08, the AA and white vote, particularly in the south, became more polarized which makes it difficult to project forward to this year. In SC ’08, HRC got 35% of the AA vote and very little of the white vote that went in approximately equal shares to Obama and Edwards.
South Carolina was a three way race in the beginning. Edwards had won the white vote (40%). North Carolina in 2008 was at the end of the calendar, and by then a two person race, and as you say AA became more polarized as race went on.
Sanders was pretty much going to be stuck with 20% of the AA vote as a ceiling. It’s pretty much what he got in NC (17%). When you split the difference with how he’d do with the white vote with a domination among the young voters, you get roughly the same result as in 2008.
Also AA vote was higher percentage in 2008 than 2016. I’m curious if voter ID laws had anything to do with that, or if that’s mostly bc Obama wasn’t on the ticket.
Guess one could take the ’08 splits between Obama and HRC and project in ’16 that HRC would get Obama’s ’08 percentage and Sanders would get HRC’s ’08 percentage. Works for VA and NC, but no where else.
The AA vote this time is splitting 80/20 (approx) as it did in ’08 after SC. This time with HRC getting the 80%. However, her 80% is not the same 80% that Obama got. It’s more like her 20% from ’08 plus 75% of Obama’s 80%. That’s sloppy because of the significant increase in AA voters in ’08. Perhaps the VA and NC exit polls can tell us more (at least about the shape of the primary vote).
Keep in mind I’m not saying that I would have arrived at the end result by looking at 2008, but I would not have said it’d be as lopsided as VA. I still would have had it at about 60-40, Clinton winning (as opposed to an original estimate of 65-35).
Do you have any analysis of why Ohio turned out the way it did? Missouri and Illinois and Florida all lined up with approximations of where they should have been, the margin of error simply favored Clinton (and easily could have been reversed).
Haven’t looked closely at any of Tuesday’s results. My head did have OH at 54% for HRC; so, I wasn’t far off. A guess off the top of my head is that HRC retained higher percentage of her white voters from ’08 than she has in other states that she won in ’08.
Okay, since you asked, pulled up the CNN exit poll. Lower percentage of voters were <45 years old. The biggie appears to be women, particularly white women. (AA women favored HRC by a lower percentage than AA which iirc differs from other states). This does make some sense because it was in OH that HRC leaned hardest of white women in ’08. All the other splits in OH appear to be similar enough to that in other northern and midwest states.
Should add in case it got lost, I too had NC at 65/35%. The topline results in OH and SC are similar but there are significant demographic voting differences.
We could say that white women in OH like HRC a lot better than white women in NC do and AA in OH don’t like her as much as those in SC.
White women: OH 61/38 (HRC/Sanders) : NC 49/47
AA women: OH 69/29 (HRC/Sanders : NC 79/20
A breakdown by age/race/gender is not given, but the above variance between women in OH and SC isn’t an artifact of age differences.
Are you sure? The local news says she trounced Bernie 2 to 1 and Hillary swept all the states.
NYTimes with 99% counted 50.5% to 48.7% And WGNTSimilar to what was reported on election, but they seemed to have difficulty get that last 2% counted (I always raise my eyebrows when I see that sort of thing because it where the “hinky” stuff can be slipped in without public notice.)
Anyway — when I saw your question I pulled up the Politico election liveblog tracker — took a glance and headed for the NYTimes to see what they had. Check out Politico. W. Wilson suddenly has lots of votes and Sanders a lot fewer votes. Wonder what data feed Politico is using. Apparently IL SOS doesn’t have an online vote tally resource.
Not to be paranoid, but there might be something off in the IL handling of the vote count. Can you snoop around for local info?
I’ll try!
Re: official results http://results316.cookcountyclerk.com/Summary.aspx?eid=31516
Even Tammy Duckworth didn’t do so well against opposition that didn’t even advertise on TV or flyers to the Suburbs. Andrea Zopp is either President of past president of the Urban League. If my memory is correct she is also one of the multiple black candidates that split the anti-Rahm vote. I have no idea who Napoleon Harris is, although I’m sure rikyrah does.
EDIT: I see the link just gives the control, the results don’t have their own link. What I was referring to above is the result of choosing “US” “DEMOCRATIC” “ALL” “ALL”
This is not the crushing defeat 6x% for Hillary that was reported on the morning news casts.
If you choose “US” “DEMOCRATIC” “Hanover” “ALL” You get results that I would have expected. Hanover is the township that I vote in. Heavily Hispanic and Asian. Tammy is VERY popular here and I saw many Sanders yard signs and bumper stickers (besides mine). There were Clinton yard signs but not nearly as many and I don’t recall a single bumper sticker. “Barrington” township is the upper income area that I reffered to in one of my diaries. Again, results that I expected. In fact, 40% seems rather high for Bernie. Not many Democrats in Harrington but some at least have some civic sense of duty, unless that 40% is the hired help voting. Palatine is a VERY republican area, but Bernie took 52% of the Democrats. Can’t give you figures for Lombard because it’s in DuPage county, not Cook. “New Trier” is VERY rich, very Liberal area. Blowout for Hillary here, so Liberal means “Social liberal”. “Berwyn” is on the South Side next to Chicago. It used to be working class Eastern European. Next door Cicero used to be the same but now is heavily Mexican, maybe Berwyn is too. I only know the Berwyn of 50 years ago.
“Oak Park” used to be upper class White, now over 50% Black. Hillary wins heavy. “River Forest” Very Rich. Also, Very Mafia Boss. Heavy Hillary. “Wheeling”, heavily Jewish, a win for Hillary but not a blowout. “Leyden” where I grew up, the opposite results from wheeling. “Evanston”, home to Northwestern University and heavily Black, 55% Hillary.
“Orland” far South Side suburb. heavy White blue collar and white collar working class. 55% Sanders. Switch parties and you see it was majority (!) Trump.
You see the pattern, if one is Rich or Black, you heavily favor Hillary. if you are White and working class you favor the outsiders. Just checking back at Barrington but for republicans, Trump 39% Kasich 29% Cruz 20% Rubuo 10%. The color here is GREEN.
Do you think there is enough material here for a diary? or does no one but you and I care?
Okay — Need Cook Co — city. That’s about a third of of the city.
Don’t know what I’m looking for. Don’t even have a hunch. More like a vague sense of dis-ease.
Hmmm! Cook county used to show the whole county. Now you have to look at the City of Chicago Board of election commissioners site. they no longer report to David Orr? I’ll bet these are Rahm Emanuel’s trained seals. I need a nosegay.
Only have results by ward. i don’t know the ward numbers except the first ward is the Loop , traditionally controlled by The Outfit. TarHeelDem is probably more use in analyzing these than me.
http://www.chicagoelections.com/en/wdlevel3.asp?elec_code=5
Hmm! First ward is 61% Sanders.
Total 368395 (53.56%) Clinton
312572 (45.45%) Sanders
I see O’Malley was creamed by Willie L. Wilson,
whoever he is.WTF? Around 10% of the vote is missing. Work your statistical magic, Marie.
I’ll need your help with this. Pull up each ward and record the raw votes for HRC and Bern.
Having scrolled through the counties outside Cook, it doesn’t compute for me that the 55%/45% in the Cook suburbs is good enough to give HRC a win. I’ll go ahead and systematically record the county totals in a spread sheet to confirm or disconfirm my impression.
Bernie waived a recount in MO — didn’t want to ask the state to incur the expense because a small change wouldn’t change his delegate count even if he won. And the best time to declare a win for PR purposes is with the initial count (as Mitt demonstrated in ’12 in Iowa). Added to that consideration, partisan DEMs and the MSM discount Bernie’s wins; so, what’s the point? Still …
Oh, wait a minute — started thinking and typing before I took in the raw numbers you supplied. There’s something wrong here. Let me explain.
Chicago Tribune reported that the total Cook Co. DEM ballots were 675,975. The Cook Co suburb total (from the link in your prior comment) were: 469 thousand which would leave a balance of 207 thousand in the city. A first ward total of 368 thousand would seem to be much too high. More:
If the rest of the state were splitting at slightly less than 50% for Clinton than that 55,000 would carry the state for her. But a 50/50 split was off from my cursory scroll. Okay. Time to check out those county totals.
One last point — the CNN exit polls (good to get a sense of the shape of the vote but so far from being precise that they can’t be used to make a case — the M/F split was 45/55 and the split for men was 45% HRC/53% Bernie and women 55% HRC/45% Bernie. That would put HRC over 50%. Seriously too few men identify with and vote DEM and women are …
Total 368395 (53.56%) Clinton
312572 (45.45%) Sanders
That’s the whole city, not the first ward, still much higher than the other number you cited. But why don’t the percent totals add to 100%?
I’ll put the raw in a spreadsheet and recalc.
Got to go now.
Selective reporting to make it ever so much more difficult for the public to challenge the reports.
Am only halfway through the mind-numbing task of putting all the county results in a spreadsheet.
I no longer trust my ability to do mental arithmetic. I kept getting 90% instead of 100%
I copied the figures into a spreadsheet and recalculated the totals and percentages. the web link is correct. Restated as follows:
Hillary Clinton 53.73%
Willie L. Wilson 0.50% 54.23%
Martin J. O’Malley 0.32% 54.56%
Roque De La Fuente 0.08% 54.64%
Larry (Lawrence) Cohen 0.09% 54.73%
Bernie Sanders 45.27% 100.00%
This is ballot order. Clinton was #1 and Sanders #8.
Also ran m y cursor over the rows to see if there were any hidden minuses or formulas.
But, even in the city, not the two to one 65-32 figures the news reported for the whole state. or at least insinuated for the whole state. You know like: “Next the entire state results. Hillary Clinton 65% Bernie sanders 32%. it looks like Sanders’ insurgency is dead, Robin! yes, indeed, ted, now let’s interview some voters. .. (cut to various mopes declaring that Hillary walks on water)” They didn’t actually say those were statewide figures, they just implied it by the indefinite word “next”. “Coming up” is another favorite. An item “coming up” may be an hour away.
P.S. The table is vertical in my post, but slanted in the preview. There are two vertical columns.
I’ll take a look at this later. What I want to review are the raw numbers by county and whatever ward or jurisdiction the city of Chicago uses to report results.
Check out the end of my new diary — very interesting.