This has been the most hard to predict campaign in memory, but some things have gone pretty much the way I thought they would. I knew Hillary Clinton was a colossus who was too strong to beat from the left despite the obvious widespread hunger for exactly that. And I knew that the Republicans had only one real presidential candidate (Jeb Bush) and that he would be the toughest of sells to the Republican base.
The Democratic side frankly bored me when it didn’t simply irritate me. So much Sturm und Drang about a nomination that was sealed in stone more than a year before it even began. I did my mourning over this race in 2014 and got over it, but I don’t fault people for believing and working their tails off. It just felt like watching your child put everything into winning a contest that you knew was beyond their capabilities of winning. When it was a protest candidacy, it was nice and somewhat exciting, but when people began to take their chances seriously, that’s when it took a dark turn.
I voted for Sanders and I’m happy he won in Indiana tonight because I want him to have as many delegates as possible in Philadelphia. If he wins in California, that’ll be great. I don’t think people should vote for someone just because they’re inevitable, and the way to get your voice heard in our system is to get some representation. As a message candidate, Sanders has been phenomenal. He even did many things in his campaign extremely well, especially his fundraising. He’s set an example and provided a most valuable precedent for progressives going forward. And, I think he exceeded his own expectations and should be very pleased with himself.
When the voting is over, however, I don’t think he should contest the nomination. I think he should do what Hillary Clinton did eight years ago and heartily endorse Clinton and enter her name into nomination at the convention. Meanwhile, behind the scenes at the convention, his delegates should fight like hell to influence the platform and to shape the rules that will apply to the nominating contest four years from now.
The big event tonight had nothing to do with the Democrats, however. The big event was Donald Trump winning in Indiana, Ted Cruz suspending his campaign, and the Republican Party as we’ve known it ceasing to exist.
I’ll be writing about the many ways in which we’re now living through a seismic political event. I’ll be writing about it a lot, because there are so many facets to this.
By way of an introduction, I want to give you an astute observation from Josh Barro:
It is easy to find examples of parties where ideologically orthodox members felt sold out by moderate leaders who softened party platforms. Think of Tony Blair in the UK or Dwight Eisenhower in the US.
But at least those moderate leaders tend to be broadly popular with the public and to win elections. That allows those ideologically orthodox party members to get half a loaf — in the form of implementation of a watered-down version of a party platform.
Trump has somehow found a way to throw away the ideologically extreme ideas that orthodox conservatives cared about while actually making the party less popular. His nomination is a recipe for conservatives to sell out and lose anyway.
I have a couple of quibbles with this. It’s kind of annoying to refer to Donald Trump as a “moderate leader.” Hopefully, I don’t have to explain.
It doesn’t detract too much from his point though, assuming that Trump actually loses. But, even if he wins, it’s a big loss for Movement Conservatives.
Barro explains this, too, although again using the assumption that Trump will lose.
Trump will run “opposing free trade, promising to protect entitlements from cuts, questioning the value of America’s commitment to military alliances, and shrugging at social changes like the growing acceptance of transgender people.” As Barro notes, “All three of the supposed “legs” of the Republican coalition stool — libertarian economics, social conservatism, and militarism — are at risk from Trump and the populist-imitator candidates he will spawn.”
There’s a sense in which few Republicans truly care about all three legs of the stool, but simply tolerate one or two of them to get the other(s) that really motivate(s) them. But virtually all Republicans care passionately about either fiscal or social conservatism, or about international affairs and conservative principles in foreign policy.
You might think that Trump is enough of a chameleon to get away with using an Etch-a-Sketch to erase his performance in the primaries, and he probably is. But he isn’t going to erase his plan to build a wall, and he isn’t going to start trumpeting neoconservative principles in foreign policy, and he’s not abandoning his attacks on free trade. On social issues, he’ll probably tack back to the middle, which is sensible and sound electoral strategy, but will still leave social conservatives feeling like they’ve had their party stolen out from under their feet.
Think about what I’ve written about Sarah Palin over the years. The real damage she did was in getting Republicans to lower their standards for what a vice-president or a president ought to be. She broke a very meaningful and valuable norm simply by being so blatantly unprepared for the job.
Without Palin, I doubt you get the kind of candidates who flamed out for the Tea Party, and I doubt you get Donald Trump.
Trump will force loyal Republicans to support or tolerate or grudgingly accept many of the things they’ve spent their whole lives warning us would lead to armageddon. When that happens, many of them will change their core beliefs and their standards for what a Republican should be and what they should represent. When it’s over, assuming he loses, the party will never be the same. They will never go back to those three legs of the stool. And, if he wins, the party will definitely be transformed into something unrecognizable.
There are areas where this will cause actual party shifting. At first, free-traders will move to the Democrats simply because they’ll get a fairer shake and because they’re appalled by Trump. But they won’t find a party to go back to later, and they’ll rightly conclude that a taxing, regulating party that isn’t anti-business is a better home than a xenophobic gathering of anti-elite rageoholics. Neoconservatives will vote for Hillary out of genuine panic that Trump might get the nuclear codes, but they can’t afford to be politically homeless because their livelihood is built on influence. They’ll find that a party that supports the postwar consensus on American internationalism is preferable to one that wants to encourage nuclear proliferation and destroying our alliances in Europe, the Far East, and the Arab world. Conservative intellectuals (like George Will) aren’t the biggest demographic, but they’re important to the Conservative Movement. They will leave Trump’s party and try to rebuild something to take its place. Some will simply find the anti-intellectualism of the Republican Party has become too much, and they’ll make peace with the Democrats. Others will come limping along later when their efforts to remake what has been lost become obvious failures.
And this assumes that Trump actually succeeds in Etch-A-Sketching his racism out of the fall campaign. He’s stuck with the Wall, although he can try to deemphasize it. But if he can’t beat his rap for being an out-and-out racist, he’s going to lose “respectable” people from all over this country who now send their white kids to the most amazingly pluralistic schools. If the Republican Party gets branded as a National Front party, they’re not just losing the youth for generations, they’re losing an enormous chunk of tax-averse educated professionals. This is also how the Republicans could conceivably lose the House of Representatives, which was something unthinkable pre-Trump.
Now, I can anticipate some reactions to this.
A lot of Democrats, particularly Sanders Democrats, don’t want to hear that the result of their labors will be a party newly filled with free-traders, militarists, tax-averse white professionals, and conservative intellectuals. My response is twofold.
First, they have nowhere else to go but out of politics altogether, and that isn’t going to work for a lot of them. So, get your welcome mat out, because this is how a major party achieves LBJ-like dominance. It’s not by purity, but by winning the argument in decisive fashion.
Second, at least initially, the Sanders wing of the party will have more influence and juice than they had before. That’s because they will have representation at the convention and support for a lot of their ideas from the majority of traditional Democrats, including most of Clinton’s supporters. What will be interesting to see is how some of those ideas might fare if they are picked up by Trump and then rejected in emphatic fashion in November. That would be unfortunate if you care about fair trade, for example. Nonetheless, the progressive instincts of the Democratic Party will be enlivened at least for the initial stages of a Clinton presidency. The newcomers won’t be anything but padded numbers until substantially later, and no sooner really than when Clinton seeks reelection.
I just want to add one additional thought before retiring for the night. The Republicans have been here before and bounced back in short order. They won the presidency four years after Goldwater got thumped and six years after Nixon resigned. They’ve made huge gains on the state, local and federal level during midterm elections in the Obama Era.
But think about this.
They accomplished their turnarounds in the 1960’s and 1970’s by going after the Democrats’ soft spot in the South. Where is the Democrats’ soft spot now?
Certainly, you can look at the Rust Belt and the grumpy mood of the white working class, but there’s nothing on the scale of Jim Crow. How do the Republicans bounce back and begin a realignment of the realignment?
I’m willing to argue now that they can’t do it as a party of the Conservative Movement. Demographics were pushing against them anyway, and it was only working on life-support because it still gave them majorities in the House.
Whoever designs their comeback will have to come up with a new coalition as different from Bush’s as Nixon’s was from Eisenhower’s. The key problem was summed up by Barro: “Trump has somehow found a way to throw away the ideologically extreme ideas that orthodox conservatives cared about while actually making the party less popular.”
Assuming he loses, Trump will leave nothing whatsoever to build upon, because the smoking husk that remains of the Republican Party won’t have a future in a viable winning national party coalition.
They’ll discover that they’re the problem that needs to be Etch-A-Sketched.
This one really got me thinking – looking forward to more along these lines.
I had been torn between this, and hoping Cruz dirty-tricked his way into the nomination, lost in a landslide, and gave the redstate.com crowd (and the electorate that makes the tea party congressmen’s seats safe) a massive post-election hangover. But “this” is what we’ve got and I’m looking forward to exploring it for any undiscovered silver linings.
As for the danger of Trump winning, I think Palin showed us in 2008 that the electorate really does sense the responsibility to not elect an idiot. Trump, while smarter than Palin, is not running to be “a heartbeat away”, so the stakes are geometrically higher. You can’t etch-a-sketch away his monstrously massive narcissistic disorder or his ignorance. People will come out of the woodwork to ensure an HRC landslide.
So if I’m an agnostic, low tax, strong military Republican I can live with a majority party at the state level (# of states, not population) and a minority party at the national level. The current various factions of anti-abortion, racists, bigots, social conservatives can walk or reduce in number without much impact on the Koch Bros. They’ll just start buying Democrats, not hard to do.
George Will probably imagines himself as the latter day WF Buckley who will purge the party of the aforementioned groups. But that is a pretty tall order and won’t happen.
I think this is going to play out differently. The national Rumpublican Party is going to get torched this year and probably 2020. The theocons will drop out, the anti-abortionists will drop out when the Supreme Court has 6 Democratic justices on the USSC. The bigots/racists will go underground.
When those trends are played out, the neoliberals/ Silicaon Valley libertarians will sense an opportunity to takeover the Republican Party in the 2020s. A Rockefeller-type party of big business/high tech will emerge as a permanent minority plus bought Democrats to get all the business friendly legislation they need and contain the safety net.
Entropy will splinter the Democrats.The Northeast Republican moderates will return (from the Democratic Party). Wall Street Republicans will get Senate seats in NY, NJ, DE. The Confederacy will be moderated – VA, GA, TX, FL all purple all the time. CA goes back to being a swing state when the Democrats fix immigration so Republicans can’t break it. Then the Hispanic population (like the Irish and Italian before them) will not be driven by fear of the Republican bigotry (that will be muted considerably).
A new normal will be established where compromise is possible, because the ignorant wings of the current Republican Party will have no voice at the national level and the progressive wing of the Democratic Party (especially unions) don’t have a sufficient power base to challenge the neoliberal coalition – except on the margins around the safety net.
Under this scenario climate change will kill us before California is a swing state.
I don’t think the Koch Bros have any problem with that.
I do know Nate Silver’s prediction model died tonight. Prediction: 90% Clinton win; in reality a Sanders’ win by > 5%. Maybe Nate should have bet on old Stewball.
Silver’s demo model predicted a ~7 pt. Sanders win.
“According to our final polls-plus forecast, Hillary Clinton had a 90% chance of winning the Indiana primary.”
“According to our final polls-only forecast, Hillary Clinton had an 85% chance of winning the Indiana primary.”
Last update: 5:00 p.m. EDT May 3, 2016
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/indiana-democratic/
Polls-plus forecast: Clinton 54.2% Sanders 43.3% +10.9% Clinton
Polls-only forecast: Clinton 52.3% Sanders 45.2% +7.1% Clinton
All the polls had Clinton winning. Nate Silver gamed this out to a 90% chance of a Clinton victory.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/indiana-democratic/
What really happened, and I can’t say I understand it, is that Silver had a demographic model that wound up predicting Sanders (as you say) by 7%, but for some reason, presumably because it was so far from the aggregated polls (see link above), he ignored it in his actual prediction for Indiana.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/indiana-primary-presidential-election-2016/?#livepress-update-1
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Silver is a numbers guy. Not an analyst. Numbers are good, but only predictive when qualitative information is in line or reasonably in line with the numbers. When push comes to shove, a majority of people poll and vote for the bird in hand and not the two in the bush. But those with no bird or only half a bird in hand are ashamed to admit that except in the privacy of a voting booth and not all will do it even then. Silver doesn’t know about the birds.
We will never know what really happened. But more important to me is why did Nate Silver ignore his model for Indiana and wait until he live blogged the results that evening, suggesting that Sanders would win by 7%. I have noticed during this primary season that the polls usually have Sanders underperforming.
Silver’s revised model sucks.
But to be fair to the man and those that work for him, the polling in Indiana was pretty shitty. That said, the demographic stuff that he adds is just terrible. Terrible.
Not sure what you mean by “demographic stuff”, but it turns out Silver’s “demographic model” for Indiana was close to accurate. It predicted Sanders by 7%. It’s just that this didn’t figure into his official prediction (Hillary 90% chance), which was based (I suppose) on the polling aggregate.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/indiana-primary-presidential-election-2016/?#livepress-update-1
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I argued early on that no prediction model would be adequate for this election because of the assumptions one has to make to do the statistics.
Statistics cannot handle realigning elections.
Statistics are just a way of understanding data.
The issue you have is with the data. I agree that “pundit-level” data; e.g. demographics, economic indictors, etc. are more or less useless in this election. I think they’re pretty shitty in any election, actually.
However, I can’t envision any scenario in which candidate preference data is going to be useless. If you want to know what people are going to do — just ask them. That’s about the only thing that will generate 1) informed and 2) honest responses.
If polling is a way of understanding data, then why do you say the problem is just with the data?
It seems like it’s with (a) the data and (b) the way of understanding it. Because, as THD says, this is a realigning election, so the models don’t necessarily work
Just because the data sucks doesn’t mean the way of understanding it doesn’t also suck.
Mind you, if you mean by “statistics” just the math, of course the math is correct, that’s just a bunch of numbers. But polling isn’t pure math, it’s also how you model the data both before and after you obtain it.
Most of the models for prediction depend on long-term trends based on the assumption that this election will be like other elections. It is not possible to develop a model that says this election will be different from other elections. A case of one that has not happened yet.
A 90% prediction of a win indicates a ten percent chance of a loss. This was the one in ten. This does not indicate a problem with the model.
Actually it does. I think you’re confusing probability with possibility.
Bernie’s win was not caused by some unlikely Black Swan event or combination of events that would fall into the 10% range. It was caused by misunderstanding the nature of the electorate.
It’s something like an accident due to negligence. You didn’t do it on purpose, but you should have looked where you were going.
Booman, if the conservative party could simply get over their over and covert racism, they have a ready built majority in the waiting. Hispanics are much more religious as a group then whites are. most of them are catholic. African Americans for a significant part are religious people who could be convinced to vote their beliefs if the racist fear from the GOP didn’t push them away. That could help rebuild the social conservative part of the GOP. Add probably 30-40% of the AA vote with an even split on the Hispanic vote and their national electoral problems are much smaller.
Of course doing this partly defeats why the republicans delved deep into social conservatism in the late 70’s, which generally only meant white christian people. The GOP spent a lot of time politically attacking the voting African Americans who went from church to vote, based on the sermons they heard. Quit making the face of blacks as welfare queens, drug dealers thugs, and celebrities that are constantly denigrated by GOP politicians. Admit they are just as christian as the white believers and accept them into the party. To do this, publicly jettison the southern strategy as a failed idea in the second decade of the 21st century. This would strengthen the social conservative, for much longer than trying to double or triple down on the old racist southern strategy of whites are christians and other folks are secretly muslim, etc.
Trying for a rust belt realignment doesn’t solve their problem, unless the majority they gain from it is larger then what they lose no longer being able to stoke the white fear of losing white privilege. They would have to stop feeding the base red meat, and dog whistle to win a ever smaller segment of the voting public. The right wing wultitzer would have to be reprogrammed, and many of the older talking heads from the southern strategy days might have to retire. This also means dumping people like Limbaugh Breitbart, Right Wing Radio, and the fox news dog whistle crew as their main mega phones to the base.
The problem for the GOP is for the southern and western parts of the party using their stoking of racist fears is easier then rebuilding without it so far. Rebuilding to include a coalition of current minorities who are closer to their social conservative beliefs would give them a future to work toward, instead of fighting to keep those nonwhite social conservatives voting out of their fear of racism. One is clinging to a past that is no longer relevant, the other looking toward the true demographics of the future.
Both Hispanics and Asians are generally more conservative economically then the other parts of the democratic coalition. Remove the toxic racism from the GOP and they also might feel more at home there. “Hard work, fiscal restraint, personal responsibility” would be easy an easy sell, to get many of them to accept the GOP , especially if democrats are stuck with Clinton style DNC/DLC triangulation for wall street. Fighting for a real middle class and the jobs needed to fuel it, would also go along way toward defusing the white shock and fear at where the country has ended up in this election cycle, and where it is going just due to demographics.
That alone would be much less secure for individual politicians who live politically within the old style GOP, but would allow the party as a whole to realign toward a more centrist right position from which to fight a national campaign. I also believe they might be able to win many more state and local elections going forward then continuing on the path they seem welded to right now.
As a hat/tip to AG it would also mean dropping their participation in the permagov coalition, and actually fighting for their voting bases beliefs. This would allow them to move from fighting for military budgets that are slated to the USA being the planets police force for unfettered capitalism, to a more reasonabl3e budget that is directed to defending the country, and allowing other countries to burden more of their own defense costs. This would allow the GOP to fight better for actual balanced budgets, and not have to decide between fiscal conservationism or military security considerations. Brings two legs of the stool more in line with each other.
Will they do it, probably no more than they were willing to implement the 2012 autopsy on their loss in that presidential election cycle. It is however a path they could use to realign their party for the 21st century instead of fighting to return to the mid 20th century.
“As a hat/tip to AG it would also mean dropping their participation in the permagov coalition”
I’m currently reading Mike Lofgren’s new book, “The Deep State”; Lofgren discusses the fall of the constitution and the rise of a shadow government. He states this situation has developed over many decades. I hope everybody drops out of the permagov, but…
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/34912-illicit-surveillance-and-the-deep-state-an-inte
rview-with-mike-lofgren
You don’t have to be AG to see that the Clintons are very much a part of the Permagov. So, no.
One of the problems with this discuaaion is that it’s mostly about “process”. Changes, yes, but still, business as usual. That may be accurate if you look at it solely in terms of party politics, but to my mind there’s too much at stake here (climate change, terrorism, globalism, political and financial corruption, destruction of the middle class, etc., etc., etc.) to be overlooked.
Assuming all goes smoothly for Hillary (not alluding to the e-mails here, but to concerns raised in my previous paragraph), the 2016 Democratic Party will look something like the DLC Democratic Party of the 1990s, only more so, much more so. If Booman has seen Hillary coming since 2014, I suppose he saw that coming. And what I can’t understand is, if he saw all that coming, why hasn’t he been at the very least, talking about it?
I’ve got a confession to make. I did see all that coming, which is exactly why I’ve been supporting Bernie since the day he showed up. Not sitting on my olympian ass pitying the poor suckers who got excited about his candidacy.
Maybe I’m oversimplifying, but it’s hard to oversimplify a paragraph like the following, which is 100% vintage Booman:
“The Democratic side frankly bored me when it didn’t simply irritate me. So much Sturm und Drang about a nomination that was sealed in stone more than a year before it even began. I did my mourning over this race in 2014 and got over it, but I don’t fault people for believing and working their tails off. It just felt like watching your child put everything into winning a contest that you knew was beyond their capabilities of winning. When it was a protest candidacy, it was nice and somewhat exciting, but when people began to take their chances seriously, that’s when it took a dark turn.”
The language positively drips with superiority and condescension. True, he says “I did my mourning over this race in 2014 and got over it,” and in a couple of recent posts he explained this in convincing detail. But apparently it was a very private affair — I can’t help wondering why, as a blogger, he did not share his political insights with us, beyond the predestined fact than that it’s a “done deal” and we need to get over it (and do what, exactly?).
Get involved in the Democratic Party at the grass roots level, I suppose. Fine, nothing wrong with that except that very few people can or will work within the party. There are so many other avenues and strategies of activism, beginning, as I firmly believe, with informing the public.
“I don’t fault people for believing and working their tails off.”Well that’s mighty big of you, Boo, especially since you repeatedly did fault people for believing and working their tails off. Because, after all, you didn’t want them to be disappointed. That would just terrible, if they were disappointed. Like they aren’t already disappointed in nobody doing fuck all.
Because surely there’s a lot more to it than that. WHY was Hillary’s candidacy “inevitable”in 2014? Surely it wasn’t because she was the most popular Democratic politician in America. HOW exactly did it happen? WHAT are the long-term policy goals of this cabal? WHAT does it mean for the future? Who were the key players? Surely if in 2014 you already knew what would happen with Hillary (which to my mind is no great feat, since all you had to do was follow the Hillary spin that started then — but he somehow did not talk about any of this.
We’re just discovering some answers now, and not from Booman. Kudos to Steven though, for his work on the Hillary Victory Fund, which is a good part of it. The corruption behind that (even if legal), and what it has done to a party that still had some decency to it, is just breathtaking. And yes, Bernie should contest this at the convention, because it is corrupt as hell and unacceptable.
Did you really know that in 2014, Booman?
So, “It just felt like watching your child put everything into winning a contest that you knew was beyond their capabilities of winning.” What’s lacking here is any sense that you fight for what is right, and the more important it is, the harder you fight. Yes, I have watched my children numerous times enter contests that they probably had no hope of winning. (I really didn’t presume to know, but certainly most people who enter contests don’t win anything.) But I always encouraged them, I loved the fact they were excited, motivated, and I didn’t want to dampen their spirits. And I also wanted them to have the experience of doing something, of believeing they could win, htta they were doing something of value (which they were), learn to deal with disappointment and not be discouraged.
Yes, you do have to pick your fights, but if this is a battle you would not pick, then what is? Because even if you don’t win, you may accomplish a lot. You may not win the battle, but long-term you can win the war. OK, maybe you can parse this out of what he says, but it’s all delivered in such a holier-than-thou tone that is light years away from anything that would motivate anybody to do anything.
If you don’t step up to the plate in something this important, simply because you think you’re not going ot win, that to my mind is a perfect definition of defeatism. I understand you have a plan here, for continuing the movement, but to me it’s a plan on “their” terms. I don’t get a sense of fight in it. I’m not talking about going berserk here. I’m talking about a thoughtful, coordinated movement that kicks ass.
Where am I coming from? I’m coming from Bernie, because that is exactly the spirit he has shown from the start, nad imparted to millions, and in so doing has helped this country more than any politician I’ve ever seen. And he is absolutely not quitting. With all respect, Booman, I’d follow his leadership over yours any day of the week. The Hillary shills keep depicting him as a demented crank, but more than 50% of Democrats, not to mention vast numbers of independents, understand how vitally important this is, and that is what I’m not getting from Booman.
Yes, keeping Trump from being president is vitally important. But if I didn’t know better, I might think they Trump was in this simply because he was the only candidate who could (a) destroy the Republican Party and (b) make Hillary look good in comparison. It’s hard to believe that Trump would intentionally do such an incredible favor even for someone who, admittedly, is something of an old friend. Except for the fact that, whatever happens, there’s something in it for him. either he becomes president, or (more likely), hewins the eternal gratitude of the most powerful couple in America.
Stop. No need to say more. They can’t. Racism is the beating heart of it all. That’s the lesson of Trump. They don’t really care about “limited government” or “liberty” if their racialist buttons are being pushed. Yeah, they love “limited government” as a vehicle for racialist hostility. But if they’ve got the hostility anyway, no need for all the think-tank convolutions.
Yeah, but…what is “racism,” exactly? Really. How did it come about? Why has it been encouraged by the controllers?
Dure, it’s a natural animal reaction natural to feel fear and hostility towards “the other.” But racism in the U.S. was first and foremost an economic tactic. Just as in the Indian caste system, people with convenient markers…darker skin, different facial features, different hair colors,different cultures and languages, etc…were relegated to the cheap labor pool. This remains true here to this day. Certain groups…Italians, the Irish, Jews, Poles, etc…managed to escape that pool by passing as “white” (Read: Anglo/Germanic), but all you need to do is look at who is driving cabs in most U.S. cities, who is running low-level convenience stores and involved in other relatively unprofitable work to see the truth of the matter. “Racism”…in the south, in the north and everywhere else it raises its ugly head…is an economic device that is promoted by the controllers…the so-called .01%…who want to keep wages as low as possible without promoting a violent revolution.
Duh!!!
Encouraging the lock-step majority to loathe its so-called “inferiors?” Just a tactical necessity for the .01% to reach their strategic goals…control and immense wealth.
It’s worked very well. So far. Less well recently, though. There are cracks beginning to show in the racist system.
Will it crumble? And if so…in what manner?
Be careful what you wish for.
You may get it.
AG
“Italians, the Irish, Jews, Poles, etc…managed to escape that pool by passing as “white”
Yes, I remember that. When I was a kid, I wasn’t really white. I remember the Italian kids in my high school, they weren’t really white either. “Saturday Night Fever” was supposed to be New Utrecht, but we were the next high school over.
Then one day I became white. didn’t actually have to do anything. It was back in 1967, the Six-Day War. For some reason, just after that we were granted honorary whiteness. I remember it well, because my mother’s social-climbing cousin, who (as she later told us) was contemplating converting to the Episcopalianism, suddenly decided it wasn’t necessary, as it was now OK to be Jewish, at least in Queens.
Now I’m writing this from TX, where once again I’m not really white.
What’s happened is an unexpected backlash to the Bush years in the form of a reverse Overton Window: ideas that were once built into the rank-and-file conservative orthodoxy — “Family Values;” religious, racial and cultural intolerance; irrational saber-rattling — will, after decades of being carefully cultivated as Orwellian vote-getting symbols, be driven underground, off the national stage.
The Overton Window model, which says that people like Gingrich and Ailes and Cheney and David Duke and Palin push the extreme boundary of acceptable public discussion so far to the right that the “centrist” zone (where everything happens) gets magnetically pulled rightward as well, was a useful and powerful pragmatic tool for a long time. It allowed reasonable, pointedly non-radical people like Dukakis and Gore and Kerry to be successfully painted as dangerous, crazy leftist extremists. It allowed Clinton (both of them) and Obama to be portrayed as grotesque, radical interlopers rather than as the centrist populists they are, and allowed Clinton’s and Obama’s successful, accomplished four terms — which, in the end, did more for average Americans and for our economy and our place in the world than even hardline Democrats seem to realize — as “ruining our country.”
But now the window is moving the other direction. I’m not sure why, but it seems inevitable now that it’s happening, like it rebounded off of something or got pulled back (or whatever physics model one wants to use). Suddenly all those church/guns/families people look like a bunch of nuts, and they’ll have to go underground the way the people further down the same road (the KKK etc.) have been for a hundred years.
It’s strange; it’s not what was predicted. It’s easy to say that we understand why, as liberals, because as Colbert said, “Reality has a liberal bias,” and you can only call things the opposite of what they are for so long before your entire project falls apart — you can only sell people McDonalds food for so long before they catch on (although they continue to buy guns, cigarettes and gas-guzzling cars). But Donald Trump is definitely the device by which the most egregious rhetoric of the Right (which they own completely despite their sputtering protestations this year) gets stripped away.
Mitch McConnell and the Freedom Caucus’s paralysis of government did that.
The persistence of war did that.
The continued sputtering of the economy did that.
The continuing drying up of small towns and some cities did that.
And the fact that after 40 years, conservatism never delivered peace and prosperity to the working class that followed Nixon. Not did it deliver what the theocrats wanted; in fact they lost ground dramatically on every issue but closing abortion clinics. And that latter was accomplished through guerilla warfare by white men.
And then, Bernie Sanders campaign made it safe to say the “S” word again. That one thing–no letting the left wing be taboo snapped the Overton window leftward in spite of the suppression of Black Lives Matter and #blacklivesmatter (even within the Democratic party and black leadership), in spite of the blackout of information about climate change, in spite of the 8-year blackout of the story of how fraud brought down the financial system and the fraudsters remain in business. Those stories started getting out to the small towns across the country because of the Sanders campaign. People who had not been public about their politics for fear of their neighbors came out to support Sanders and discovered that they were not alone.
If the preconditions had no been there, Sanders would not have had the response, but Sanders campaign released the movement of the Overton window. That is why it is very important for him to run in every primary, caucus, and convention. Those who have advocated his early ending of his campaign essentially seek to close off the Overton window’s leftward movement and continue to deny progressives no choice and no power in a forced coalition.
Sanders has exposed something important, and something generational. It is worth remembering that those who are 30 have no real memory of looking for a job in good economic times. Since 2000 it has been better and it has been worse, but anyone who lived in the 90’s knows what a good economy is.
So to the young socialism doesn’t seem like such a risk.
Sanders finally had the opportunity to grab a larger megaphone (in part because there wasn’t anyone else around that wanted it or were too scared to take it) and articulate for those that only had a vague sense of unease/distress what is at the core of their discomfort.
The open question is now that it has reached a national stage is if it can be squelched as quickly and easily as it has been done each time some pieces of it managed to succeed to that level over the past fifty years.
Even Liz Warren does not go there. You know of anyone else talking about neoliberalism and why we are in love with the kludge of public/private giveaways that always cost us more and deliver less?
Because like little kids gorging on junk food, we don’t know better and there aren’t enough adults around to speak and teach the truth.
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-01
Totally, brother.
“Donald Trump is definitely the device by which the most egregious rhetoric of the Right (which they own completely despite their sputtering protestations this year) gets stripped away.”
True, but in exchange for what? Somehow I don’t see Trump as a leftist in any sense of the word. If anything he’s a kind of demented libertarian.
Dunno, but any half-decent businessman could look at our economy and go…WTF are you idiots doing?
Last January I wrote:
Let’s hope the rest of the prediction comes true as well…
On the surface, perhaps, but I think he would just be another puppet like Reagan, easily manipulated by the people behind the scenes.
Very easily, as the guy has no principles other than “what’s in it for me?”
No, he shouldn’t contest it, but neither should he endorse the very things his campaign supposedly was against. So, according to you, he should get up and say, “See, it was all a farce! Taking big gobs of corporate cash is really the way to go. This small donation thing from ordinary people is just a losing strategy. The people want more wars, more job outsourcing, more corporate control over their lives. Medicare for All is never going to happen. I see the error of my ways. Heil Clinton!” Well, you may be right and all of us who contributed or volunteered for this campaign were just suckers.
The platform? Come on! You know the platform is just meaningless words on paper and totally non-binding. What happened to Universal Health Care? It became just mandatory Health Insurance and the people that need it most get nothing if their State doesn’t want them to have it or their employer is a religious fanatic.
Nobody, except total innocents, believes the platform means anything.
Voice, Well said. I can’t imagine how he’s going to handle the situation when the time comes to accept Hillary Clinton as the nominee. He must find himself in a bit of a bind.
Voice, you do have a sane side, and this is it.
More than a side. He’s a decent man. Okay, he has a couple of clinker thinkers (anti-communism and pro-zionism), but those don’t get much attention here.
Voice offers a voice based on his age, experiences and location/associates that are in short supply here. He often doesn’t articulate his points well and/or lapses into old speech patterns that are easily misread by those younger, but if one can set those aside in reading his comments, he does make important points.
I hope you’re right, Booman. The “Conservative Movement” has been such an utterly toxic force in American politics for so long that it really must die for our political system to remain viable. It can’t come fast enough IMO.
“What will be interesting to see is how some of those ideas might fare if they are picked up by Trump and then rejected in emphatic fashion in November. That would be unfortunate if you care about fair trade, for example.”
Well, another possibility is that some sort of fair trade platform is adopted by both candidates. That’s how ideas win in a democracy. Look at Ted Cruz and how quickly he had to walk back his transphobia platform.
I see nothing shocking, harmful or untoward about forcing a floor vote. Thats the point of a convention.
Another point of a Party Convention is to unite around their POTUS candidate. For obvious reasons, that is actually the most important thing. Party activists get together, accept and applaud their nominee, and build their enthusiasm for their general election work.
In my memory, Parties which have had significant floor fights over their nominee in recent decades saw their candidates lose in the general election.
It’s not shocking or untoward to force a floor vote. It could be harmful, depending on how Sanders and his supporters behave before, during and after the floor vote.
Sanders’ only opportunity to gain the nomination would be to have the previously dreaded superdelegates overturn the will of the voters in the primaries and caucuses. Bernie’s campaign has been trying to make that happen for weeks, and if he goes to the convention he would do it for months more.
At a certain point, you have to consider the possibility that this, and the rhetoric that is likely to be used in pursuit of it, could damage Party cohesion. That would set back everything that Sanders wants to achieve re. policy changes.
Sanders will campaign against Trump. He won’t campaign against Hillary once she is nominated, if she is nominated. But he doesn’t have to campaign “for” her, he needs to continue campaigning for the same things he’s been campaigning for from the beginning. Against Trump. That’s the only way Hillary has a hope of keeping a lot of Sanders’s supporters invested in this election.
Doing something like nominating HRC would basically signal his entire campaign was a jk and essentially be a betrayal of what attracted early supporters in the first place: the party is too right wing and too beholden to big money donors. You change the policies by changing the party that exists to push them.
I expect him to essentially campaign against Trump like what priscianus said.
Sanders’ campaign has changed the Party. Just because it has not yet been successful in executing a complete, hostile overthrow of Party leadership does not mean that the Democratic Party has been left unchanged by this campaign.
The only way that the Sanders campaign could fail to consolidate its recent victories is if their supporters act as though they can stand aside the majority of people in the Party who are Clinton supporters and show disrespect for the nominee all the way to November. Sanders will not call for his supporters to do such a thing once the nomination process is done, because to do so in the wake of a Clinton nomination would be to undermine everything that he wants to accomplish.
That doesn’t mean Sanders should concede today, or that he should answer the bullshit questions he gets from reporters about what he would do if Clinton wins the nomination. He’s still in the fight, and until the nomination is decided one way or another, the reporters should back off.
I don’t expect them to, unfortunately. That’s how they roll with candidates who are behind in the nomination fights on both sides of the aisle. The fact that I intensely dislike Ted Cruz and John Kasich does not mean that I found it reasonable for them to be asked to speculate what they would do after Trump sealed the nomination. It’s always an offensive question to ask of a candidate who is actively running for President. The minute they suspend their campaigns, absolutely it’s a fair question. Before then, these are questions which seek to humiliate without benefit to the public.
There is a danger in overthinking this.
It is not clear to me the extent to which Trump’s success if a product of personality or ideology. I think it is mostly personal. I am not really convinced that this reflects an enormous change in the parties.
Trade, for example, is pretty misunderstood. If you look at the exit polls, free trade was more popular among Democrats than Republicans. This isn’t new. So while I very much disagree with free trade, it seems to me this issue is somewhat overrated among Democrats.
In any event it is hard to see how he doesn’t marginalize progressives. This was going to happen anyway – the loser always gets marginalized. But in important ways the primary season uncovered a significant weakness for progressives: their inability to connect with African American voters. This isn’t new: I compared the Teachout margins in NY for example and found them pretty similar.
Clinton represents a significant shift to the right on foreign policy, and the status quo on the economy. The review of the Franks book has me anticipating it. But Clinton isn’t going to tack left to satisfy progressives on important things for a very simple reason: she really doesn’t agree with us.
Personality, yes, but personality that can only be replicated in the true ideology of Trump supporters: cultural dominance and white supremacy. Trump doesn’t need to talk about unisex bathrooms (support or oppose) to know that he “gets” their MO. The vehicle for this attitude and ideology in its own way is already made. Now pick your issues and hope on board.
Jesse Jackson didn’t have a problem selling it. I don’t think support for Clinton is ideological.
“I don’t think support for Clinton is ideological.”
Brother, is that the truth. The ideology that dare not speak its name. lol
Jesus Christ! Wanting a job is White Supremacy? You Democrats have gone nuts!
By what measure is Trump’s support rooted in wanting a job? There’s no (concrete) evidence that this is true; it’s what people want to make believe is true so they don’t have to face reality. They’re losing ground by virtue of being white men who once dominated, and they’re losing grip on the ability to use the state to maintain it. Neoliberalism hurts everyone, but their problems aren’t with neoliberalism. Their problems are with those they perceive to be taking away their cultural dominance rather than pointing their guns at the frauds and looters of the rich. And they’d rather sink with Trump than swim with “those people”.
Obviously, you haven’t talked to people that voted for Trump.
I suppose everyone that voted for Sanders is a misogynist as well. I know black democrats think he is a white supremacist.
No, that’s ridiculous. Although I have commented in the past on the record that I found some of Sanders’ mannerisms during one of the debates as sexist, even if subconscious. And some of the ways he talks about race make me uncomfortable.
I think Sanders has the best message. I think he has the best chance to speak to many people who may have voted GOP in the past. But there’s a reason these people chose Trump over Sanders, and it ain’t about jobs.
Yeah and when Harry Reid respectfully referred to Obama as a Negro, Reid was being racist.
As an older feminist (one that’s supposed to be in HRC’s voter sweet spot), I’ve never seen anything in Sanders “mannerisms” that even hint of sexism. The institutional feminists of today (mostly the “I’ve got mine” set) don’t exhibit the fullness and richness of authentic feminist principles. Barbara Ehrenreich does and Molly Ivins did. For me, these HRC type feminists aren’t much different from privileged housewives of fifty years ago that dabbled in politics in their free time. In local Democratic organizations they rejected participation in the process by DFHs. They were the queens in their own little ponds and preserving that was their highest priority.
Odd that he speaks of race and racism in terms much like the great MLK, Jr. did and yet, older AAs can’t hear that voice and prefer the platitude laden and patronizing speak of Obama and Clinton. The overwhelming majority of AAs (much like white folks) haven’t been open to authentic liberal voices and politicians in a very long time. Until recently and among older AAs, that majority preferred Bill Cosby over Harry Belafonte.
I don’t care for a lot of institutional feminists. The great thing about this primary is that although I agree with a lot of them when I see expressions of sexist behavior due to institutional patriarchy, a great deal of them clearly value “Lean In” feminism rather than actually beating back power. It’s the same as Andrew Sullivan with gay rights: they want assimilation.
I agree Obama is patronizing a lot of time, which reared its head full swing when he gave the commencement at Morehouse.
This: …she really doesn’t agree with us
She is NOT and never will be a Social Democrat. She is a Market Democrat with a big helping of Technocrat. The shapeshifting is just to blurrr the identity issue so her defenders can wave their hands about. The merging of State with Private will continue apace.
I disagree. She is a Social democrat but an Economic Conservative or rather an Economic Libertarian, perhaps Fascist.
Not a very good “social Democrat.” She and Bill never hesitated to throw AAs under the bus if it was advantageous to their political careers. She remains open to restrictions on late term abortions (as if women are clamoring for them and there’s plenty of physicians willing to accommodate them). She opposed same-sex marriage until after the SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional.
She’s like privileged liberals that patronize those less fortunate and effectively do less to advance equity and equality than progressive Republicans in days gone by.
Well, in comparison to a Tea Bagger. (Yeah, I know that’s weak, but certainly not an economic Democrat)
Yes weak, but not without precedent. There was a difference on social issues between Goldwater/Nixon and the Birchers. But the former could hardly be seen as “social Democrats.”
Touche
Did the Kochs fund the DLC in its early days?
Yes. And for $25,000, 28 giant companies found their way onto the DLC’s executive council, including Aetna, AT&T;, American Airlines, AIG, BellSouth, Chevron, DuPont, Enron, IBM, Merck and Company, Microsoft, Philip Morris, Texaco, and Verizon Communications. Few, if any, of these corporations would be seen as leaning Democratic, of course, but here and there are some real surprises. One member of the DLC’s executive council is none other than Koch Industries, the privately held, Kansas-based oil company whose namesake family members are avatars of the far right, having helped to found archconservative institutions like the Cato Institute and Citizens for a Sound Economy.
Not only that, but two Koch executives, Richard Fink and Robert P. Hall III, are listed as members of the board of trustees and the event committee, respectively-meaning that they gave significantly more than $25,000. (http://americablog.com/2010/08/koch-industries-gave-funding-to-the-dlc-and-served-on-its-executive-c
ouncil.html)
Also about Clinton and FP moving to the right, I hope everyone reads NYT account of the nuclear talks to realize once and for all that if Clinton won in 2008 that the talks themselves would have resulted in no fruit due to her bad faith negotiating of demanding the sun and the stars from Iran, and then calling them a bad actor when they’d inevitably rebuff. Exactly what Israel does to the Palestinians.
Oh, and speaking of that, Clinton apparently urged Livni to join the Israeli government with Netanyahu. Believe. Hawk’s hawk.
“weakness for progressives: their inability to connect with African American voters.”
Misinterpretation. Sanders is strongly supported by AA voters 18-29. In other words, nearly 40% of AA voters 29 and under support Sanders.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11466376/bernie-sanders-future-democrats
In other words, don’t talk as if all AA voters have the same political outlook. Yesterday in Indiana, Sanders won 26% of the AA vote. That’s not chickenfeed.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/exit-polls-who-voted-for-sanders-clinton
I went to one of Bernie’s rallies. Just by chance got in line directly behind two AA Bernie supporters. Since we spent hours together, I learned a lot. They told me they liked Bernie’s message and they did not like what HRC had done to Barack back in 2008. They told me they didn’t trust her and that the Clintons had gotten very wealthy after leaving office. They told me they could connect to Bernie, but not HRC. My sample was small, of course; there were a decent number of AAs at the rally.
Just for the record, the following AA leaders have endorsed Bernie Sanders:
Harry Belafonte, Spike Lee, Danny Glover, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Michelle Alexander, Dr.Cornel West, Killer Mike, Big Boi of Outcast, Erica Garner, Ben Jealous of NAACP, Rep. Nina Turner (OH), Rep. Keith Ellison (MI), Rep. Justin T. Bamberg (NC, and many state legislators and local political leaders. Instead of just reflexively repeating that “African Americans don’t support Bernie”, I wish people would listen to these and others, who have explained exactly why they do support him.
The Koch’s are probably already doing it. Why not?
I’m sure the Kochs have been doing it for quite some time already. I doubt this is anything new. I’m sure they distribute their fealty money with a wide net. They don’t give a stuff about political parties as long as their goals are met.
Thanks, I feel better already.
Trump’s attack on Cruz by using the Nat’l Enquirer story, then having lunch yesterday with Klein, followed up by a re read of the RS article on Roger Stone makes me pretty confident that Trump won’t transition into a candidate who explains his policies but instead double down on his rhetoric, using every internet conspiracy or myth he can fire up to attack Clinton.
He won’t bother with ideology or Rep platforms, it will be all emotion and zero thought. Stone is chomping at the bit to go after the Clinton Foundation and with a mouth like Trump’s the Foundation is a real liability.
Even if Clinton survives his attacks, and wins, he will damage her presidency substantially.
Yes! Agree. Now that Herr Trump has effectively locked in his nomination, the GOP PTB will do what they can to use him effectively against Clinton, even though most will believe that Clinton will win POTUS. Do as much damage as possible and continue hitting her where it hurts throughout her presidency.
They’ll pretend to Trump that they’re trying to help him win, but they’ll probably be able to use him effectively for this purpose. At this point, it’s about the best they can do… and it can be pretty devastating.
the horse race must go on …
Here’s how bad it is.
A friend wants to take a 2 week trip to China in October. All the usual suspects: the yangtze, the Percota soldiers, the Forbidden City.
To any true political junkie the idea would be absurd.
But I am going. I can’t take 6 months of this election. When Markos had his blowup a bunch of people, who I like, went to Caucus99percent. But they are spending time talking about voting for Jill Stein (REALLY? The Scalia seat is a BFD)
I will get back, do the legal protection thing in Florida, but in general avoid this nonsense.
The public surely does not want this: these will be the two least liked nominees since polling began.
And yet here we are.
I may be wrong here, but the way I read Booman’s post was this: Republican Party loyalists will, if they publicly support Trump, be obliged to support policies that they have opposed for several decades (at least). In other words, they’ll be obliged to repudiate most of what they’ve been promoting. They will also–as Trump is a loose cannon–find themselves in a position during the campaign of being asked whether they agree with Trump’s outrageous statement du jour. The institutional GOP is going to be severely stressed by all this.
The phenomenon of Republicans who declare that they’ll simply not vote for president in the fall is real. I know a few, and you probably do too.
If Trump wins, he gets to redefine the GOP, and we’re all in for a very rough time. But even if he loses, he will have left the GOP in a damaged state. Would another demagogue promoting the Trump “ideology” of xenophobic nationalism arise?
Trump Spells Doom for Social Conservatives
APRIL 29, 2016 3:20 PM EST
By Francis Wilkinson
The 2016 Republican presidential campaign began last year with Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal and Rick Santorum — among others — flashing Bible passages and competing for support from social conservatives in Iowa. It will end in July with the all but certain nomination of Donald Trump.
The rout of social conservatives in this campaign is absolute. Their future looks grim.
The problem isn’t that Trump has a disco ball where his moral compass should be. It’s that he isn’t particularly interested in the social conservative agenda — or even in pretending that he is.
Aside from a few comic forays into biblical scholarship early in his campaign, and later comments about abortion that were so off message that they merely confirmed his lack of interest in the topic, Trump is running free and clear of the entire movement. He’s leaving social conservatives in the dust.
Indeed. But will the social conservatives vote for him anyway? It appears that during the primaries, Trump got a lot of support from those folks, perhaps because their interpretation of Christianity is so punitive–the “Good News” of the Gospels doesn’t much influence them–that they saw Trump as on the same page with them. The power of fear, hatred and resentment to motivate people is impossible to underestimate.
Turn Booman’s arguments around. Where else do they have to go? Voting for Hillary? Not voting and let the “godless baby-killing” Hillary win?
Democrats don’t understand. For the religious Republications voting against choice is a moral imperative like voting for choice is for Democrats. No matter how much they disagree with their nominee on economics, taxes, budgets, war, climate, anything else, they will vote (R) “for the souls of the unborn”. Yes, that is a direct quote.
You’re right about this. Thanks for pointing it out.
Well. Your Welcome!
You can always point to some person who will vote a certain way for a certain reason but elections are won and lost on big aggregate changes in behavior.
The big change here will be that the Republican turnout will be midterm size through lack of enthusiasm and voters voting only for downticket races.
Those that actually show up will behave (otherwise) in predictable ways and mostly for familiar reasons. Voting for the Supreme Court, for example, for the babies.
But so many will not, that this doesn’t matter.
Thanks for the broader perspective. Could you possibly mention some examples? For example, in 1964, did Goldwater’s candidacy drive down GOP voter turnout?
Goldwater’s candidacy moving into the national election can be validly compared with Trump’s in that it represents an extreme difference in values between the GOP and the rest of the country. Also perhaps because LBJ was powerful and a Democratic party operator, but not extremely popular, especially with youth, so can suggest some comparison with Hillary. But compared to Goldwater, he suddenly became very popular.
On the other hand, the state of the GOP is vastly different now from what it was then. True, Goldwater up until the nomination faced opposition from the more liberal wing of the party, but the GOP was not in any kind of disarray as we see it now.
all true, but there is no national solidarity now like there was in the aftermath of the Kennedy assassination.
Interesting. Parenthetically, it’s often forgotten that Goldwater was an political foe of Kennedy, and in preparing for his presidential run, he thought he would be running against JFK’s second-term bid.
” More than two years before the 1964 election, Goldwater committees were being formed. Mr. Goldwater was enthusiastic about the prospects of running against President John F. Kennedy, whom he liked personally but disagreed with politically.”
“After Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963, Mr. Goldwater seriously considered withdrawing his candidacy. He said a major reason for his decision to go ahead with the campaign was his desire to keep control of the party out of the hands of Eastern liberals.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/may98/goldwater30.htm
Not sure if that second paragraph is entirely true, but at least that’s the cover story.
He names who his replacement is for Scalia – someone who the right approves of.
My guess is this solves a lot of the problem.
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 5/3/16
The path to ‘President Trump’ turns GOP plan on its head
Steve Kornacki shows how Donald Trump will likely pursue a general election strategy of winning upper-Midtwest industrial states with large white populations rather than follow the Republican plan devised after their 2012 loss that looked to expand the party’s appeal to Latino voters.
The idea is to drive up turnout by blue collar white voters. The people who used to be called Reagan Democrats. They are presently known as “Republicans”. Already.
Trump’s new voter numbers in those states are a lot more impressive than Hillary’s, aren’t they? Gross vote totals, too, in some.
Hmmm, nevermind.
heh — half or more of the Reagan Democrats are dead. And the other half has fractured into its component pieces.
Macomb County Michigan was thirty-five years ago.
The ‘Reagan Democrats’ are all dead — or voting Republican.
Fighting the last war isn’t just something generals do.
You write:
But if that contest taught the child things that would come to fruition as he grew older and stronger, then it was the beginning of a successful effort further down the road.
Let us pray that this is what happens here.
AG
I agree.
No it didn’t. A “conservative movement” never really existed. No movement, just a political party that effectively exploited those that believe god, guns/war, low taxes, and shoving women and minorities back to where they were in the ’50s is the path to wealth and happiness for them. Those folks never go away and are too “follow the leader” types to self-organize into a movement.
Before throwing out more predictions at this time, shouldn’t we take a moment to check out how well those here did on their predictions/projections for the GOP nomination? Lots of folks today are supposed to be eating hats and crows. A sampling of “opinion makers:”
So, who here can claim credit for not only having projected that Trump had a good chance to win but also supplied valid reasons for that assessment?
I will confess the fact Trump was able to win evangelicals is one of the biggest surprises I have seen in politics.
So he is down between 12 and 7, RCP has him down 6.something.
Plenty of people have overcome a lead like that.
And always remember Harold McMillian’s warning of “events dear boy, events”.
But I just don’t see how Trump wins.
He didn’t win all the evangelicals/fundies/whatever, but he certainly won a significant portion of them. My fundie rightwing family claims that they are “Never Trumps,” and they, of course, supported and voted for Cruz. But I won’t hold my breath on that “promise.” I know for certain that they’ll never vote for Clinton (can’t blame them), but I’m not sure that they’ll be able to restrain themselves and NOT cast a vote for POTUS in Nov. At that point, I could see them “caving” and voting for Herr Trump, even if the won’t admit it.
Holding their nose, as Booman counsels us to do.
Did it for Kerry, what did it get me? More neoliberals.
Sidney, Relax, Have a Cream Soda.
Looks like a good movie. adding it to the netflix queue.
Midnight Run is a very, very, very good movie.
Gave HRC a pass with half of the Dem primary voters on her IWR vote. That pass also gave Obama clearance to fight drone wars with little opposition from Democrats.
Can’t say that this was an unintended consequence of nominating Kerry in ’04. Seemed quite clear that drawing a bright line that year would leave Democrats fully compromised on the issue of USG military adventurism for us and destruction for innocent people in other countries.
“I will confess the fact Trump was able to win evangelicals is one of the biggest surprises I have seen in politics.”
More like Cruz lost. Canadian Cruz / Batista Boy as my sister calls him. Cuban. Cuban = Hispanic = Catholic. I have no idea if he really is Catholic but I’m sure many of those fundamentalist hear the Spanish name and hear “Roman Catholic”. Others just don’t like the Spanish name.
I question that. This isn’t 1960 with JFK running for president. Evangelicals have been forming alliances with conservative Roman Catholics and Mormons to advance their agenda. Of course they have major doctrinal differences, but they’re willing to put them aside “for the sake of the unborn”, say.
Don’t know about that. My fundamentalist cousin had me written out of the family because I arranged a funeral service for my mother at the Roman catholic church where she was a parishioner. I didn’t mind that, actually. So now I’m no longer half-Italian half-German but proudly 100% Italian. I’d much rather be associated with the nation noted noted for Art and Science anyway than the nation noted for Coventry and Auschwitz.
Facts help to avoid getting something mostly wrong. Papa Cruz is an evangelical sort of preacher. Baby Cruz was reared on that stuff and touts it all the time. Papa has been working those IA fundie churches for his kid since at least early 2014.
The only competition for the GOP Catholic and evangelical Catholic vote in this election was Jeb?, Christie, Jindal, and Santorum.
I suspected that, but how many voters knew? Yes, I could have googled and so could they, but people who would vote for Cruz are not noted for digging out facts.
Besides, I really think “He’s Hispanic!” was more important than “He’s Catholic”.
They’re noted for going to church and doing what their fundie preachers and fellow worshipers tell them to do at election time.
It’s also possible that they also noticed that blood-chilling note in his voice that I referred to the other day. But probably not if they follow fundamentalist preachers.
Not before they voted, but should they see Cruz in the future, they might notice because they’ll be less likely to be wearing their blinders.
“Cruz left the Roman Catholic Church in 1975 and became an Evangelical Christian after attending a Bible study with a colleague and having a born again experience. Explaining his leaving the Catholic church, Cruz stated in an interview with National Review, “The people at the Bible study had a peace that I could not understand, this peace in the midst of trouble. I knew I needed to find that peace by finding Jesus Christ.” Following his conversion, his son and wife also became born-again Christians. In the Cruz home, talk at dinner time was frequently about the Bible. He was ordained as a pastor in 2004.:
Wikipedia, Cruz, Rafael.
They belong to a far-out kind of evangelical movement called Seven Mountains Dominionism. “They want religious control over seven areas of culture in the US: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government.” Ted Cruz is also a Dominionist (they believe in Christian control over the government), but he has remined within the Southern Baptist Church.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ted-Cruz-a-Dominionist
It’s like winning union voters without winning union leaders. Useful, and better numbers than the converse, but not much for your organization and field work. The pastors (most of them, anyway) won’t be leading their flocks for Trump. It’s one more of his lethal weaknesses, to go along with big donors abandoning the top of the ticket, and many of them crossing over completely, and the loss of a media megaphone from a united Right-Wing Wurlitzer.
Whut? CNN is beating FOX. Unlikely to forego that revenue. Be malpractice.
Did you watch FOX last night?
It was worse than Reegan’s funeral, with Hannity even questioning every guest about whether Trump really was electable.
To find a roster of unapologetically pro-Trump mouthpieces, they resort to looking under rocks. Their actual regulars refuse.
LOL No, did not watch Fox. But thanks for that image of “To crush your enemies — See them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!”
Appears that the Fox rubes don’t even trust Fox anymore.
yes, but far more importantly, Fox doesn’t believe in the rubes anymore.
Fox never believed in the rubes. They were just a target market to exploit for their own wealth and power. Had there been an easier and more lucrative hunting ground available, they would have had no difficulty going there. Their principles are as shallow as those of David Brock.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
They’ve gone to CNN to join the Lemon party.
I heard somebody say they were just part of the liberal media! ROTFLMAO
I will confess the fact Trump was able to win evangelicals is one of the biggest surprises I have seen in politics.
When I split the evangelicals into rigid and what I called flexible (superficial would probably be more descriptive), it was evident by early September that the latter were open to Trump. Whether serendipitous or planned, Trump had to keep Carson and Huckabee in the race for as long as possible to preclude the evangelicals shifting to and rallying around a single one of the less improbable candidates. They did continue to split and coalesce around more than one candidate as others dropped out. But by the time Rubio was out, Trump had enough of the flexibles that the remainder of the evangelicals weren’t enough to carry Cruz over the finish line.
“So, who here can claim credit for not only having projected that Trump had a good chance to win but also supplied valid reasons for that assessment? “
Arthur Gilroy.
Not any more coherently so than his prediction that Rand Paul would be an awesome candidate. Coin flip guesses don’t count. But if someone insists that they do, they have to demonstrate that their predictive abilities exceed chance.
January 26th:
November and January? Pshaw. A bit late in the election cycle.
Viewing Trumpsters through a mono-dimensional lens — People are responding to Trump because they’re feeling xenophobic and because they want to see the Republican establishment insulted. …They want someone who will get some revenge on their enemies. — is how so many failed to perceive the staying power of his campaign. Not that that isn’t a correct assessment of some of his supporters, but only some and Cruz, and to a lesser extent Rubio, would have satisfied such people just as well as Trump did. It’s may even be correct to say that Cruz had more of such people through yesterday.
As we live in a celebrity culture and a large number of people will expend an amazing amount of their free time to merely see a celebrity, it’s strange that not so many appreciated this aspect of Trump’s attractiveness would carry him far into the campaign. Positioning Hillary as a celebrity served a similar purpose because celebrity worship isn’t limited to Republicans. How the hell did Schwarzenegger get elected twice to the governorship of CA? As a Republican, he represented none of what were told is most important to GOP rubes.
I don’t think I waited to November to make these observations. I just cite that because it’s directly relevant and I knew where to find it.
Good Lord. Booman wrote that piece when the primary contests had barely even started, before guys like Bush and Christie had dropped out. Your desire to not give Booman credit for anything and to punish him for not openly advocating for Sanders is interfering with your objectivity.
September 1, 2015
September 6, 2015
“A ‘conservative movement’ never really existed.”
Seriously? True, those called conservatives were never of one mind, but when is any group totally of one mind? There’s always a spectrum and a coalition of common interests. partially oiverlapping and partially conflicting (but papered over by the spirit of a winning coalition).
Reagan pulled together economic conservatives (neoliberals), neocons (foreign affairs conservatives), and religious conservatives. That was the movement. Some people belonged to only one of these, some to two, and some to all three.
Absent agreed upon definitions of conservative and movement, we’re both looking that the same historical developments through different lenses. People do come together to try to put a genie back in a bottle (ie civil rights and abortion) but those are single issues and while generically conservative don’t add up to a conservative movement because they aren’t embedded in a fuller political orientation. They are also the sorts of issues that politicians can most easily appropriate, subvert, or defeat for their own purposes.
Conceptually, the anti-Vietnam War or Peace movement was larger than that one war — but once reduced in the public sphere to a single war that was winding down, those attached to it as a single issue drifted away and the smaller faction that had long existed in the US was easily shoved to the periphery. Hence the ease with which Reagan on could get their wars on.
A movement needs a coherent and integrated voice and opposes existing entrenched powers. That’s true even for the movement that emerged around he who shall not be named. So, unlike the early 20th movements, mostly with a common goal of a better life for workers and women and children, that achieved great success in the FDR administration (mostly to the credit of Francis Perkins), I don’t view the rise of the GOP from 1966 as a conservative movement.
“… they aren’t embedded in a fuller political orientation.”
This is too doctrinaire for me. Call it what you like, it was as full a political orientation as any, with all kinds of connections with other hegemonist, right-wing and populist movements past and present.
Conservatism means rejecting all aspects of the New Deal — social security, child labor, forty hour work week, insured savings accounts, etc. — what came before then like public schools, roads, parks, etc., and what came after like Medicare, mortgage interest deductions, etc. How large is the faction that wants to do away with all of that? They are still a bunch of prudes (a high percentage merely hypocritical prudes) that only want to stick their noses into people’s bedrooms and dictate what a woman may or may not do wrt her reproductive organs.
There are any number of ideological positions, such as “that government is best that governs least”, supremacy of property rights IS the basis of the common good, all common property should be privatized, states rights, “the invisible hand” of the market, the profit motive is the only rational motive (government should be run like a business), capital over labor, convergence between rights of corporate persons and natural persons, hypertrophic interpretation of the second amendment, rights are contractual rather than natural (e.g. money = speech), America is a Christian country, etc.
There are innumerable RW think tanks from the HEritage Foundation on down, that formulate this stuff and then get it legislated. They make sure it is taught in universities, and the people from those universities are appointed to key positions. Koch Brothers, ALEC, that’s what they do.
It may seem like a hodgepodge, a mix between sboth contradictory and overlapping principles of the ruling culture of the old Confederacy, the economics of the robber barons and the internationalists, fundamentalist religion, libertarianism, but it boils down to the supremacy of capital vs labor, finance vs any other source of value, etc.
P.S, – A lot of this ideology is based on materialistic and mechanistic political and economic theories of Thomas Hobbes and John Locke. Edmund Burke and Adam Smith are often invoked as well, though with much less justification.
Don’t disagree with any of your comments here, but intellectualizing affiliations and group dynamics among people that are fairly simple in their life experiences and desires to preserve what they have or assume they have or return to some fantasy of a past better life isn’t particularly insightful.
I wasn’t intellectualizing them, I was delineating the intellectual origins of the movement that their political leaders put together in the 1970s-80s, and which has pushed this country ideologically to the right.
If all you’ve been trying to say is that down-home, just folks conservatism is not and never was a movement, well I’ve got no quarrel with that, it goes almost by definition.
Although ever since the Great Awakening of the 1730s and 40s, religious revivals, which followed in waves ever since, have been described as movements — and there’s definitely some of that involved in the popular end of what we’re talking about.
“How large is the faction that wants to do away with that?”
Ideology has become all-consuming, by being absorbed into theology. These are people of faith, and faith, to them, don’t got to make no sense at all. You’ve got people, famously in Kentucky, for the first time enjoying the benefits of health insurance, then voting in people who want to reduce them.
More common is the idea that these public benefits are OK for usn’s, because we’re fine, upstanding Amurcans, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for them lazy b-ds. So it’s, I’m all right Jack, screw you.
No — HRC isn’t a colossus. She’s actually a very weak candidate. What she had/has is the totally compromised and bought off Dem Party apparatus working on her behalf, gobs of money from wealthy elites, and a media that hates the left and likes pro-corporate and pro-Pentagon politicians. Oh, and that Dem Party hung out the “position filled” sign several years ago just in case any Dem politician had the audacity to think that she/he could challenge the anointed one.
If Sanders were a few years younger (say 68 like HRC) (of course, he wouldn’t be quite the man he is because his life experiences would have been somewhat different, but no reason to think that such a man couldn’t be very similar to Sanders), chances would have been much better that he’d win the nomination.
A “colossus” would have flicked off a 74 year old “social democrat” before the first debate. Would have shoved him into the Kucinich and Gravel box without breaking a sweat.
So, predicting that HRC would win hardly counts as being an astute prognosticator. The tough call last summer was predicting that Sanders would win and come close enough in enough primaries and caucuses that he’d still be in the race today. That today, he has the highest net favorables of the remaining four candidates and his are still in positive territory.
This has been exciting primary for those that loathe neoliberalism and the USG war machine. Boring only for those totally willing and ready to concede to TPTB. “Beltway think” types.
What Clinton had at the beginning of this campaign was universal name recognition, a positive reputation around the world, an 83% positive rating among Democrats, and acknowledgment as America’s most admired woman for a record twenty times. Since then, she has acquired 12.5 million votes–three million more than Sanders and two million more than Trump–and will soon have enough delegates to be the official nominee.
Tell me, if this is what you call a “weak” candidate, what do you call the man she beat?
Sanders is the present Democratic iteration of the headwinds produced by 30 yrs of bipartisan neoliberalism.
Their strength has been the surprise, no?
“a positive reputation around the world … “
Please watch this. It’s important.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-hillary-clinton-dangerous-person-yanis-varoufakis-2016-5
Wikipedia:
Yanis Varoufakis is a Greek economist who was a member of the Parliament of Greece between January and September 2015. He represented the ruling Syriza party and held the position of Minister of Finance for seven months.He voted against the terms of the third bailout package for Greece.In February 2016, Varoufakis launched the Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DiEM25).”
see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Europe_Movement_2025
“No — HRC isn’t a colossus. She’s actually a very weak candidate. What she had/has is the totally compromised and bought off Dem Party apparatus working on her behalf, gobs of money from wealthy elites, and a media that hates the left and likes pro-corporate and pro-Pentagon politicians. Oh, and that Dem Party hung out the “position filled” sign several years ago just in case any Dem politician had the audacity to think that she/he could challenge the anointed one.”
You certainly hit the nail on the head on this one.
And by the way, the reason the Dem Party hung out that sign is because the Clintons had strong enough control in the Democratic Party to make sure of it.
… because the Clintons had strong enough control in the Democratic Party to make sure of it
Dare we question and ask how that happened? Even ignoring the legacy aspect of her candidacy, is there any precedent for the loser in a primary where the winner goes on to become President and eight years later that primary loser controls all the levers of the party?
McCain would have been out of the race in ’08 after SC if he’d had any competitors half as good as Obama or Sanders. McCain was so far away from controlling the GOP in ’08 that the elites searched for a savior through the first three-quarters of ’07.
You’re damn right we need to ask how that happened.
I don’t know, but I would say in retrospect that Hillary was “supposed” to have gotten the nomination, and that since she didn’t, she got a whole bunch of consolation prizes. But how exactly did that work? I think Rahm Emanuel might have had something to do with it, but who the hell is Rahm Emanuel anyway?
Ted Cruz’ evil twin.
But why was HRC “supposed” to have gotten the nomination in ’08? Almost fifty years on from the beginning of the second wave of feminism and the best women can come up with for the first woman POTUS is a legacy candidate? One that chose not to do the hard work of making her own way in politics?
We know that Obama wasn’t much of a negotiator back then — improved somewhat over the years since then but still not one of his strengths.
Why was she “supposed” to have gotten the nomination on 2008? Because it was HER TURN. I don’t know why, Marie, but everybody knew that was what was supposed to happen.
ANd it’s what happened this time, it just took another 8 years.
I mean if it was her turn in 2008, then for sure it was double her turn for having to wait another 8 years, right?
Maha is addressing the question of how it happened in her latest post. Very much worth reading:
http://www.mahablog.com/2016/05/04/the-question-nobody-asks/
Just FYI — I wrote my comments (just below) BEFORE I read Maha’s latest piece. The fact that it turns out we’re asking exactly the same question and (I think) giving the same answers (along with her commenters) is important. It’s the very question that Booman has NOT asked or discussed. Booman wasn’t unique in knowing she was the presumptive heir as early as late 2014. We all pretty much knew that. Some of us wanted to know WHY. Bernie actually went and did something about it.
Erick the Red is stealing my material:
Holy moly…is Erick a lurker over here?
Plenty of lulz available to us these days in between the moments of anxiety over the fact that a loud, unrepentant racist and preposterous onanist has won the Presidential nomination of a major political Party in the United States.
The demonstrable fact of the present moment is that all three legs of that stool have become demonstrable failures.
After eight years of forcing Obama policies into the same channels as much as the conservatives were able, the grassroots knows but dares not say that these three pillars of conservatism are failures. But Trump can say it for them, get the emotional release, and go about the same policies. But what Trump has done is mobilize voters to vote — some of whom might not have before — black voters, Latino voters, women voters, independent voters, and apparently some uncompromising affluent conservative voters as well (cough, George Will).
What Sanders has to do is get the Democratic Party to point out that the conservative project has failed miserably. He can argue that progressive solutions are the traditional solutions that have in fact delivered, not that the Democratic Party will jump on this view.
Sanders must argue for a strong progressive presence in all 50 state parties. Because. There. Are. Sanders. Supporters. There. And for a campaign that integrates them into the local and state political structures with power according to their size and participation. This will step on some toes of black business-oriented Democrats who are powerful in local Democratic structures and on the toes of some big city machines. And then he must lead his supporters in getting sympatico Democrats elected in improbable places in the midst of Republican confusion.
Sanders must understand that the platform does not come out of the Platform Committee–it comes out of Congress–and bargain and deliver his support accordingly. This is where the establishment Democrats will try to shut him down by giving him nothing, thinking progressives have nowhere else to go. Human nature being what it is, this is a foolish attitude on their part.
Sanders should ask to nominate Hilda Solis as Vice-President. Markos has hinted at Solis as a good VP pick this year; to me, that makes a lot of sense against Trump. You are driving turnout of the committed and of demographics. The advantages of nominating an accomplished Hispanic woman associated with labor makes the point that the other party has two men on the ticket. Unless Trump finds a sympatico woman, having two men on the Republican ticket will be highly likely. A stemwinding nomination speech for Solis would make clear what has been true all along; Sanders supports policies that benefit minorities. And then let Hilda Solis rip on the campaign trail; let bully-boy be taken down “by a girl”. Because the job of the vice-presidential candidate is to take down the opposition’s Presidential candidate while the Presidential candidate looks Presidential. The payoff for Sanders is having a strong labor supporter as vice president.
That gives a flavor of the conversation I would like to see about Sanders’s path forward. Having accumulated support in the Democratic Party, and Californians better not act like the primaries are over, how Sanders holds together his supporters and begins to work the levers of the Democratic Party is important.
Establishment Democrats must understand that continuing the status quo conservative ideologically-driven policies will not solidify their power as the Republican Party realigns itself; there are no conservatives to appeal to any more — just plutocrats. Failure to deal with the reality at the grassroots means the continued demise of establishment Democratic parties. With Republicans in disarray, it is hard to predict who those state and local elections will go to if both the Republican and Democratic establishment structures are in disarray. After Sanders, likely the attempt will be an insurgency from within the duopoly.
I like the cut of your jib, Tarheel. This is good advice.
Solis looks like a good choice for VP.
Yep, it ensures that Republicans won’t try to get rid of Clinton through impeachment.
Martin, you must be auditioning for the Wrongest-in-Retrospect Award, 2016 version. Maybe that is a bit harsh, something no responsible person on the Booman Tribune should ever say to a fellow commenter. I could maybe temper this somewhat to say that sometimes even the blind squirrel finds the acorn. No wait, I have far better idea. Let’s try some old fashioned understanding.
I’ve been fascinated for a while with your obsession about the destruction of the `conservative movement.’ Because you are now the Web Editor at The Washington Monthly that obsession became a bit clearer when I found this:
http://coreyrobin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Charles-Peters-Neoliberalism.pdf
Yes, this is the same Charles Peters who is the founder, longtime former editor and contributor writing a regular column called Tilting at Windmills until 2014 at the Washington Monthly. The link above is an article Charles Peters wrote for the Washington Post in May 1983 called “A Neoliberals Manifesto.” Please read this article and tell me it’s not the beating heart of the `conservative movement’ minus today’s social issue craziness. This is the foundation of Al From’s DLC and the Bill/Hillary Machine that lives on today. Al From was frustrated because reporters would not stop calling him conservative so he started using the word `progressive’ in case you’re wondering why Hillary calls herself progressive.
You are only half right to say Trump’s GOP nomination is the death of the conservative movement. It is the death on the Republican side but not the Democratic side where it remains quite alive and stronger than ever shielded by a wall of corruption organized by the Clinton Machine.
A good question one might ask is; why does Trump winning the GOP nomination while competitive with Clinton signal an end of the conservative movement? This answer is plain as day:
“Trump will run opposing free trade, promising to protect entitlements from cuts, questioning the value of America’s commitment to military alliances, and shrugging at social changes like the growing acceptance of transgender people.”
These are all the things that do or should worry us about putting Hillary in the White House, free trade, protecting entitlements from cuts and America’s commitment to military alliances. There may even be lingering doubts about Hillary’s rather recent conversion to support LGBT rights.
This contest is really about the continuation of neoliberalism as defined by Charles Peters, Al From’s DLC implemented by Bill and Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump instead of destroying the GOP, saved it by ridding it of neoliberalism that caused the GOP to turn its back on their own people, same as neoliberalism caused the Democrats to turn their back on their own people in favor of Big Money.
Josh Marshall said today about Trump; “when Donald Trump beats you, the process is akin to having a vampire drain you of blood. Only in Trump’s case, in beating you, he drains you of any remaining dignity before the end.” He does this effectively by simply insulting you with things about you that everyone knows is true while his free media eats it up, broadcasting it to the world.
Since Hillary’s style of neoliberalism is ruing our lives, driving us into poverty and laterally killing us plus Hillary’s style of neoconservatism threatens to light up the entire world, you want us to worry about which brand of neoliberal conservative will get a seat on the Supreme Court? Do you really want to toss the dice based on that to see which way our country will go when people’s very lives are at stake?
Right now the choice looks like: a political system that presents us with 2 political parties:
A – bad, terrible, abysmal, appalling, unconscionable, despicable, depraved, and disgusting
B – worse
While Trump may have saved the GOP by ridding it of neoliberalism, he may have saved the Democrats as well by ridding them of their neoliberalism thus saving the Democratic Party from itself.
Now that Trump has Cruz out of the way, he will waste no time as he puts it, “getting started on Crooked Hillary.” If he wants to win he should wait until it’s too late for the Democrats to change course but I don’t think he has that kind of discipline. Watch Hillary’s response as vampire Trump goes after her. Or better yet, watch her match up poll numbers and unfavorable ratings. We are so fortunate this is happening BEFORE the Democratic Convention.
THIS!!!…insulting you with things about you that everyone knows is true while his free media eats it up, broadcasting it to the world.
On the neoliberal economy, his has been the ONLY voice that was actually being heard and semi-reported.
We had to fight to be able to use the term on this very blog! If you cannot name it, you cannot shame it.
Austin and Mino, both of your comments are persuasive, but where exactly does this leave us and where do we go from here?
Not a bad post, Booman.
Not too bad at all.
Etch-A-Sketch the racism?
Good luck with that.
So, for a while anyway I’m going to try to take over and change the party, but in the end if the fucking free traders and militarists do win out, I will end up bolting. If they won then its basically a situation where no amount of sops are going to be enough. It will be a party working for goals I oppose. Steel in velvet at best. Theres zero reason to stay at that point because its not really about purity but about contributing to making things worse. I’d wish you good health with your shit sandwiches.
LBJ’s majorities were fragile because they were built on the south and Kennedy’s dead body. But that whole section sounds like an argument for radical thunderbolts of change or revolution before the majority disdolves. In fact the true progressive change in this country has only happened by thunderbolt and incrimentalism is what exists between them.
As for rejection of ideas, you are basically ignoring the overton window completely. It will be rejection of Trump as a vehicle. Politicians more hard working and smarter will cone after because there is power to be had there. I know you put less stock in the window than some but I think you are mistaken.
“Politicians more hard working and smarter will cone after because there is power to be had there.”
True, but I think that’s why Booman and everybody else is saying that the conservative movement is now dead. Hard-working and smarter politicians than Trump will just be some kind of populist libertarians who, presumably, can win elections. They won’t be Trump.
Fortunately there is only one Donald Trump.
I tend to see it as more of a national front than simply populist. Those are generally conservative in some sense.
UM…
The Fat Cats spent $375 million on the other 16 in the Clown Car.
THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY FIVE MILLION…
and, still wound up with Trump.
Told you…one huge GRIFT.
I am really interested in this part of Martin’s analysis:
How is it that liberals of the Democratic Party are supposed to make peace with all of these Republicans coming in? How does this not dilute the Democratic Party so much that we liberals have an incentive to stay? I know. What’s our alternative but really what are we supposed to do with this huge change to come?
Exactly. Keep your eye on Bernie.
One of the “New Democrats” (and in good with the Clintons — The Intercept Democratic Senator Urges Business Elites to get more involved in politics. (To stop Congress from listening so much to the public.)
This is what Democratic voters are supposed to embrace?