We all have our cultural blind spots. We can’t pay attention to everything and there are many things we simply don’t want to pay attention to because they don’t really interest us. There are a lot of progressive bloggers who really immerse themselves in right-wing media in order to understand, critique, and combat it. I really value their commitment and their work, but I just can’t do that kind of work myself.
Someone sent me this interminably long essay on 4chan written by Dale Beran. I actually read it and found it provocative and interesting, although I suspect it’s more contentious than it lets on.
For whatever reasons, I didn’t allow myself to become more than dimly aware of the whole Gamergate controversy, and I didn’t know what people were referring to when they made derogatory comments about 4chan during the campaign. When people first starting talking about Milo Yiannopoulos, I didn’t know the name and mistook him for someone else.
These aren’t my battles and I have no scars to prove it.
But I can’t dispute that someone needed to be paying attention to this stuff, nor that not paying attention to it contributed to more surprise about the election result than was necessary.
For my part, I’ve been focused on the other side of what is probably the same elephant. I’ve been looking at the opioid problem as a symptom of economic stagnation and hopelessness. I’ve been look at sagging entrepreneurialism among millennials as a product of decades of lax antitrust enforcement. I’ve been looking at a generation of folks the same age as my step kids who can’t afford an apartment on the entry-level wages they’re being offered. I’ve been looking at the explosion of college costs and the lack of corresponding bang for the buck in earning potential.
But the flip side is how the “losers” are responding from the protective cocoons of their parents’ basements. And if that is what 4chan really amounts to (and I’m not sure Mr. Beran fully demonstrates this), then maybe it’s more fruitful to look at solutions for their economic plight than to argue with them about whatever has them ginned up on any given day.
The most intriguing part of this essay, for me, is the idea that many of Trump’s supporters don’t expect him to deliver on his promises and that that was never the rationale for supporting him. Rather, the point was to give the middle finger to a system that was going to screw them either way.
I’ll share an excerpt on this point so you can judge it for yourself. The context is a story told in Charles Bukowski’s novel Factotum in which two factory workers devise a plan to collect their coworkers money for bets on horse races. But they never place the bets and keep the money for themselves. Their rationale is basically that their coworkers are such natural losers that they would never actually place a winning bet. The proof of their loserdom is that they work in the factory in the first place. Since their coworkers can never win, there is no risk that they’ll ever get caught for failing to bet their money. Furthermore, by knowing who their coworkers are betting on, they can improve their odds of winning their own bets. They’ll just bet on other horses.
How has that image of a 1950s business man who owns his own home in the suburbs changed after decades of declines in wages, middle classdom, and home ownership?
To younger generations who never had such jobs, who had only the mythology of such jobs (rather a whimsical snapshot of the 1950s frozen in time by America’s ideology) this part of the narrative is clear. America, and perhaps existence itself is a cascade of empty promises and advertisements — that is to say, fantasy worlds, expectations that will never be realized “IRL”, but perhaps consumed briefly in small snatches of commodified pleasure.
Thus these Trump supporters hold a different sort of ideology, not one of “when will my horse come in”, but a trolling self-effacing, “I know my horse will never come in”. That is to say, younger Trump supporters know they are handing their money to someone who will never place their bets — only his own — because, after all, it’s plain as day there was never any other option.
In this sense, Trump’s incompetent, variable, and ridiculous behavior is the central pillar upon which his younger support rests.
This idea of people voting for a guy who they know will never place their bets is compelling for me. It speaks to a the same kind of despair that David Brooks (of all people) is referring to when he notes that “a survey in Ohio found that over one three-month period, 11 percent of Ohioans were prescribed opiates.”
Still, I’ve discovered that the opioid problem is a story about more than economic stagnation. It is reaching into even the most affluent communities and school districts in the country. I suspect that it’s a gross simplification to see Trumpism as based primarily on economic problems, too. So, whatever pathologies we see coming out of 4chan probably aren’t reducible to the plight of white male ‘losers’ who can’t find a way to attract a mate.
Crazy, but I think we have been reading the same material the past few days.
“…white male `losers’ who can’t find a way to attract a mate”
Curious you should mention that. Are you aware of what has happened to the Japanese millennials?
There are signs it is happening to us, too.
My theory is that it is highly related to addiction to smartphones and other devices. You can’t pick up chicks in a bar when they are psychologically in a different part of the universe.
Maybe society is so changed that picking up chicks in bars is not what it has been for a hundred years. Civilizations do slowly change. And from what I hear, it isn’t the smart phones it’s the dumb guys.
The “herbivore men” seem to be a different phenomenon. For one, they’re polite rather than aggressively antisocial, and their avoidance of relationships and sex is mostly an intentional choice rather than an inability to find women who can stand them. Both groups use porn as a substitute for sex and spend their time and interest on gaming and other hobbies, often obsessively, but how they get there seems pretty different. It’s possible that the similar lifestyles are being driven by similar economic pressures but the psychological responses are different because of the different societies.
I wonder what percentage of global pathologies are due at least in part to ‘young men who can’t attract a mate.’
Somewhere between “Most” and “All” IMO.
I truly think sexually and affectionately challenged people are the reason we can’t have nice things on this planet.
I think we need to tie Misogyny and the quest for woman’s freedom into the ability for men to be sexually free as well.
In other words, the more free woman are, the better men will have it.
Then they will stop blocking our shit lol.
Because frankly it’s true. The reason these disgruntled dudes are disgruntled is because of the oppressiveness of misogyny.
Virtual sex must be perfected.
I think nobody does know what has happened with Japanese millennials. They are not having sex.
Sound familiar?
Japan Has the World’s Gloomiest Millennials (Bloomberg)
What would you do with a stagnant GDP, population, productivity and an aging population?
Watch Sumo.
Why do you think war exists?
I mean that perfectly seriously.
Resources are limited, scapegoating is empowering , elites are greedy, and men are pigs.
Maybe.
Maybe its about men displaying their virility to women.
There are ample examples in nature of this.
Maybe that’s what he means by men are pigs?
Eventually, god knows when, democrats will begin to think of the connection between labor availability and labor power. Democrats have been promoting all kinds of increases in labor availability. They promote, condone, and support illegal immigrants. They promote, condone, and support work visa programs.
And now we see that young people have poor choices of bad jobs.
I wonder if anyone will ever realize that SUPPLY and DEMAND work in the sphere of labor as well as the sphere of hot dogs? And the destructive effects of promoting a vast pool of workers which the democrats have had for 30-40 years have destroyed the persons that they pretend to represent?
You’d think Trump’s success would provide a little fodder for thought. That’s not today’s Democrat, however.
Sad.
I wonder if any of the restrictionists will ever realize the lump of labor fallacy was discredited decades ago, that immigration increases economic activity and wages, that unemployment is currently low, and that automation accounts for almost the entire loss of manufacturing employment?
Haha, no I don’t. We all know what motivates hostility to immigration and it sure isn’t economics.
It’s not a fallacy, as anyone smarter than you would realize. When a person is displaced from a job, they try to find another. It takes time and effort. It costs money. Usually, they never again achieve the position and power and earnings that they had.
So ignorance and tossing around crappy economic stupidity does not make you look smarter. Nothing actually could make you look smarter, though, could it?
You’re actually defending Lump of Labor?
Holee shit. No wonder your monomania is so incoherent.
The notion of the “expanding pool of labor” is true in the aggregate, but it is NOT true for the individual. Open-borders wacks just trot this incredible sagging sack of shit out without ever considering what it means to be a part of an “expanding pool of labor”.
In short, the entire idea, NEVER SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING REMOTELY RELATED TO ACTUAL DATA, is a huge crock of shit.
Unemployment is a scourge. But it is not inevitable robots or no. It is an issue we could address through what some refer to as a guaranteed job provided from the government to pick up any slack in the economy. FDR did it with the WPA and CCC. We could do it today.
More people working necessarily means a higher GDP. More robots represent increases in productivity. Those two are the keys to increasing GDP and, in fact, I don’t know of anything else.
No doubt automation needs to be addressed. But looked at another way it is a tool that can make life easier for all of us.
Our problem is a political system that will not acknowledge the problems and/or work to resolve them. And so we have the lump of labor bullshit to explain it to us.
Despite the massive increases in automation we’ve seen in the last few decades, unemployment is relatively low and could be lower if the federal reserve were willing to tolerate a little bit of inflation. The problem isn’t employing people. It’s extracting money from the tight-fisted owners of capital and distributing a greater share of profits as wages. It’s treating service jobs that can’t be easily automated as serious, respectable careers and paying appropriate wages. Unions once performed this service (for some jobs) but they’ve been effectively destroyed in most of the country and are being rolled back even in the remaining strongholds. There are any number of legislative methods of achieving more equitable distribution, whether it be minimum wage, profit-wage ratios, CEO-employee wage ratios, progressive taxes used to pay for social insurance or direct benefit payments, etc etc. If the utopian expanse of automation comes to pass and the value of human labor craters then something like UBI will become a necessity. It’s all the political problem of distribution. The same problem the left has been fighting for for ages.
I pretty much agree with all of that. The conservative party and the elites will not allow it to change.
Here’s an article at Lawyers, Guns, and Money discussing automation in the Permian Basin dealing with oil workers.
I like the part where he talks about the culture of work in American, and how a Basic Income will be unacceptable.
It’s a hard issue, and there are no easy answers. Well paying jobs are disappearing, and they are not going to come back.
But only a fool thinks Trump is going to help those workers.
.
That’s just it. It’s not the “jobs” part that’s disappearing. We have plenty of jobs still. It’s the “well paying” part. Manufacturing jobs absolutely suck ass, and have only achieved their iconic status in the imagination of the rural left and right because they once paid a decent wage, thanks to unions. The right succeeded in destroying manufacturing unions and the result is that wages and benefits have fallen to match the rest of the low-skill economy. The manufacturing jobs that haven’t been automated are now all located in the south: union-free and staffed through temp agencies by workers paid so little they rely on public assistance to raise a family.
It was always the unions that made the job dignified, not the job itself. Protectionist policy that favors domestic manufacturing will do nothing to counter this, even if we pretend that trade and not automation is driving job losses.
What is needed is decent wages throughout the economy.
We must read the same articles. Even if Trump delivers manufacturing jobs to the rust belt blue collar fools that voted for him, they would not be decent jobs. The ‘race to the bottom’ is a real thing…and the bottom is winning.
.
I heard on the BBC recently that City of London analysts expect 1/3 of British jobs to disappear in about the next 20 years owing to automation. The same phenomenon is expected throughout the industrialized world, even (now) in China. The sort of jobs that people do will change and/or there will be enormous numbers of unemployed. We all know that even if a steel mill returned to, say, Youngstown, Ohio, it would employ far fewer than a 1990s era mill. This is all a scary prospect and presages a climate ripe for more demagogues. I think these structural changes are the missing element from dataguy’s analysis.
marduk,
‘It’s treating service jobs that can’t be easily automated as serious, respectable careers …’
Haven’t we recently had a presidential candidate who thought otherwise about baristas? And that in the Party of the Workers.
I’ll add to marduk’s list of legislative methods for gaining more equitable distribution the passage of labor laws which allow workers reasonable access to true collective bargaining and allow sufficient union funding so workers can achieve satisfying conclusions to their bargaining with private and public sector employees.
Your unstated assumptions (1-3), that immigrants compete directly with native workers and thus lead directly to native worker job loss, is meritless. People actually research these things instead of building econ 101 castles in the clouds.
(4) is not, at fucking all, the purpose of unions.
(5) is not an assumption I made anywhere, you derived it from your error (1-3)
(6) appears to have sprung entirely from your imagination
(7) well it wouldn’t appear in this discussion because this discussion is not about job loss from automation but the effects of immigration.
[citation omitted]
Have some data
Unbelievable. You give me a reference which involves Peri. That guy is a total incompetent, and is horribly biased about immigrants, due in part that he is one, and in part that he gets money to have the opinions that he does. Bought and paid for by the forces of Big Immigration.
next endeavor?
If so, perhaps there’s a place for you there.
“big immigration”
lol
Marduk, your first link to the Atlantic article has some useful data in it, thanks for the link (see the charts at the bottom). But the data actually appears prove the opposite of what you (and the article) states. TTo me, the charts clearly show there is a LOT of overlap between the jobs taken by unskilled immigrant labor and those taken by non-immigrant labor. These groups ARE competing for jobs. Not in agricultural work, true, but construction, ground maintenance, cooks, janitors. laborers, …. Not to mention the scams being played with H1-B visas that bring in immigrant labor to compete with nonimmigrant white-collar labor (probably dataguy’s chief concern, not addressed in the article).
There is yet another argument which holds that the “lump of labor” is an actual fact. While the “expanding pool of labor” may hold in the LONG RUN, it certainly DOES NOT hold in the instant. For any given moment, there is a zero-sum, fixed relationship between jobs and workers.
The instant becomes the long run over time. So, the question is, how long does it take to generate a new job from an expanding pool of workers? The answer is, a hell of a lot longer than most people realize. New jobs come about very very slowly, but people lose their jobs immediately. They eat every day, and the long run, the pie in the sky by and by, is no help after you lose your house, car, marriage, and self-respect due to a bunch of illegal workers displacing you.
Those things you reference is the world we all perceive. But it is not an act of nature, it is not a fact. It can be fixed, but we need a politics that works to fix it.
No, sorry, you cannot fix that. Job loss is and will remain instantaeneous. Job creation is and will remain slow and uncertain.
That is precisely the reason we need the Governmemt to provide a job when needed.
The notion of the Guaranteed Minimum Income is going no further than the comments on this blog.
Job not income. But it too will not go anywhere with the current rulers. But we once had it.
You might find this interesting…
http://ecologicalheadstand.blogspot.ca/2011/05/open-letter-to-paul-krugman.html
Interesting read. That guy Walker shows up in a number of places about this issue. Thanks for the link.
Just curious how many native born US citizens will want to do the agricultural labor once the newly announced dragnet on undocumented workers leads to mass deportations. Cuz I have a hard time seeing those farmers suddenly paying native born workers $15/hr or more along with medical benefits as added inducement.
Not that exploiting brown skinned undocumented workers is a good thing either.
Funny you say that:
Wow – you increase wages and more people apply.
If only there were some economic idea about supply and demand that could give guidance….
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-garlic-labor-shortage-20170207-story.html
This trend in California has been helped along by two laws passed last year: the Statewide $15-with-COLA minimum wage with guaranteed sick time, and the enforcement of overtime pay laws for farm workers.
You must belong to the 3% of the American Electorate in 2016 that thought the economy was excellent. The rest of us know median family income is lower now than in 2007 and 1999.
As Zeynep Tufecki wrote:
Indeed. Stop sneering.
It’s weird how this stuff caught so many Dems by surprise. I think Democrat voters have almost just as much of a herd mentality as repugs. Almost.
We aren’t all of the way lost. But we must come to terms with the idea that Brexit, tRump and LePen (amongst others) are symptoms of the same disease: The failure of Capitalism to adjust to the new realities of Globalism.
Dems must NEVER allow someone oblivious to this problem to be the face of their (mine too i guess) party again. If Dems don’t provide a positive solution for this issue, repugs will provide a negative one.
Pretending it doesn’t exist aint gonna cut it.
To add to this, it isn’t just 4chan. First gamergate and later Trumpism infected every mass online community- reddit, imgur, funnyjunk (entirely taken over by fucking nazis), the list goes on and on. 4chan might have been patient zero but gamergate (organized in large part via Brietbart) spread the filth everywhere.
Unaware of all of these. Could someone offer a short explanation for me?
I have some passing familiarity with reddit. It is basically a social media site where people post news and opinion links. There are a number of “sub-reddits” on practically any topic you might be interested in. I have friends who swear by it. My experience is that it seems to be a great playground for trolls. I’ve heard of Imgur but have never visited. Someone else will have to provide a capsule summary of it and whatever else was mentioned. I’m a 50-something working stiff who prefers to stick to legacy media (and more specifically to legacy media with decent reputations for vetting stories before publishing).
The subreddits I regularly visit are pretty well modded but they are smaller. Its the bigger more general interest subreddits or the ones dedicated to a topic related to assholery (like politics, etc.) that get nasty. For a lot of topics they are a great way to communicate with people who share your interest.
The worst subreddits are quarantined meaning they will never show up in the algorithms that point out popular reddits. One of the Trump subreddits got this a while back.
Imgur is simply an image hosting site. So you will get all kinds of images. Memes, pets, makeup, etc. I am personally not very familiar with its rules but you mostly have to know what you are looking for to find bad stuff there.
Hence all the attention. “Oh my God Buffy and Brad are dying of heroin overdoses! Something Must Be Done!”
The decades of drugs ravaging communities of color is an indictment of their character, but drugs ravaging communities of whites must be A Problem!
I understand it is, in fact a serious public health problem, but it was when it was black and brown people dying of overdoses and our response was to resort to wholesale incarceration.
Yes, the idea that a decisive part of Trump’s voters just voted for him in order to to flip us all off has long been very compelling to me as well. Since election night, actually. That is why I would rather see such people become dis-empowered and disengaged from voting at all than to actually try to include them in our tent through engagement with them.
You can build your own power by engaging with people around their interests and values, but you can also destroy the power of others by preventing them from engaging with anyone. Right now, I strongly believe we need to be focused on destroying the power of the fascists who have taken over our government rather than building power among progressives and liberals.
Since power is the same thing as cooperation, conflict is the opposite of power and the means of destroying the power of others. America needs to not unite behind a Trump presidency in any way, and conflict should be sought at every opportunity, against good as well as bad policy outcomes, to impede the ability of the government to act under Trump.
The best story about that idea came from this story about Hunter S. Thompson. Well worth the read
https:/www.thenation.com/article/this-political-theorist-predicted-the-rise-of-trumpism-his-name-wa
s-hunter-s-thompson
John Hielemann, as plain vanilla a DC pundit as they get, basically said the same thing: that things were not getting any better, and voters decided to toss a stick of dynamite into Washington and see if anything will change. Because, he said, they had no belief that if Clinton was elected anything significant would change.
For him the time is defined by “ecumenical rage at politicians, Wall Street, the Fortune 500, government, and the media”. Chris Arnade says it’s a fight between the back row kids and the front row kids.
We’re all mad as hell….But wait, that Movie was made in 1977.
Whatever. But as the BBC anchor said on Brexit night: “no one believes experts anymore”
The language – everyone’s – left, right and center, all seems so apocalyptic to me. As though everyone had decided to adopt the style of an SDS radical.
A part of me wonders if people just got tired of it. Hillary Clinton earnestly talking of a steady hand. Of great disaster if she was not elected. To people who haven’t seem improvements in their lives in 30 years it all must seem like bullshit. As if her election, or the election of any politician mattered. And honestly all politicians claim if they are not elected everything will go to hell.
But then it isn’t bullshit. Elections are choices that matter. Maybe not as much as people like me think, but this sort of nascent nihilism is wrong.
My biggest mistake was thinking the young would come home to Clinton. I thought well, they hated Trump so they will vote for her. But so many young people didn’t. The third parties broke 10 percent in many BATTLEGROUND sates among the young – and truthfully for a while Johnson and Stein were together over 20 for much of the race.
What exactly do you say to a Johnson supporter? I get Stein, but among the young Johnson was far more popular.
So the 5% boost that I thought she would get at the close never happened.
It’s easy and fun to talk about all of this. But at the end of the day 90% of the electorate voted pretty much like they always do.
They just hated the candidates. Particularly the other guy’s candidate. Man the other’s guy’s candidate is just the worst
And the 10% that decided the election: the young (who did not come home), the lower income voter (who deserted in enormous numbers in the midwest) and the people of color who stayed home?
Maybe the “ecumenical rage” of the “Back row kids” really did matter. Maybe both candidates were so flawed that they decided to throw the dynamite.
Just before the young took to the barricades in France in 1968 Le Monde said “France is bored”.
Maybe the young are just bored.
And the 10% that decided the election: the young (who did not come home), the lower income voter (who deserted in enormous numbers in the midwest) and the people of color who stayed home?
What were they being offered? Is it any wonder those that did vote in the Democratic primary chose Sanders overwhelmingly? Maybe PoC had enough of Obama’s deportations and the Clinton name.
Two people I know who fit the profile of a Trump voter perfectly (limited education, racist, homophobic, etc., etc.) were languishing under Bush and have made gobs of money in construction and fracking in the last 8 years. I only know them because we serve on a non-profit board (a story in itself). When I had the temerity to ask one (who is retiring in his 50’s) why he didn’t credit Obama for the turnaround, he told me Obama wasn’t really in favor of what happened. And furthermore, there’s no evidence he ever graduated from Harvard. Never mind that one of our benefactors had a very high level appointment in the Obama administration!
The other one has toilet paper in his guest bathroom that sports Obama’s face printed on the paper. He has made out like a bandit in the construction boom.
May I further point out that we are talking about rural Colorado. Many people here have done VERY well here in the past 8 years. From my perspective it is a myth that rural people have suffered so terribly they have felt compelled to support Trump. Racism. Anti-diversity in all its
ramifications. Anger with people who have more education, if not more money. This irrational resentment has been fueled by Limbaugh then FOX. The aforementioned non-profit would have died on the vine without those of us with professional degrees.
A portion of the 10% you name here are people who were blocked from voting by the various voter suppression laws which were passed in almost all the swing states which Trump won by razor thin margins. What a coincidence.
Two things can be true at the same time: Hillary’s campaign was damaged by her inability to get voters to see her as a change agent, and the unprecedented propagandizing of the American people by the FBI, WikiLeaks and their media enablers teamed with voter suppression laws to tip this freak election to a racist, sexist, corrupt, billionnaire demagogue.
I’m not sure that Beran demonstrates that these folks voted in any numbers.
And according to most descriptions, 4chan is fundamentally a bulletin board. With millions of users, there are lots of different cultural nooks and crannies. Beran seems to know where to look to find his neighborhood in 4chan.
The last time there was perceptible progress in reducing racism and misogyny was in the the late 1970s under what little easing of inflation there was in the Ford and Carter years. You can almost date it to the time before the panic about Japanese industry. The last perceptible legal progress in equal protection of the law was Obama’s actions with regard to the LGBTQ community. Times were better but very far from great and large numbers of people were multi-jobbing, part-timing, independent contracting, and finding more and more fringe benefits being stripped or like, CalPers benefits, being eaten in management fees to benefit companies and pension funds. No one is economically happy at the moment. Least of all young white men with limited prospects and no sense of what they should do but play.
Moreover in too many parts of the country, the urban and rural geography is isolating with no real sociality. Churches, that once formed a landing place of isolated people, are so on the make now that those people know to stay away. And too many communities, including churches, have been laid low by an opioid epidemic that is in part blowback from fifteen years of war in the world’s leading opium producer.
What does seem to be true both about the young and old is that they don’t care that Trump is a loser. They got their money’s worth from seeing the ghost-white faces of their Democratic friends and family.
Yes, we are in deep need of what E. F. Schumacher described in Small Is Beautiful: A Study of Economics As If People Mattered .
When money corrupts all cultural values, there is a sardonic acceptance of how far the corruption reaches. Lots of young people have captured this attitude from their parents. There is a lot of the Reagan and Clinton generations of voters who now perceive themselves as economic road kill. It their own labeling that labels themselves as “losers”. All that promises “winning” is the sort of entrepreneurial malarkey that Trump was promising in Trump University. “Winning” is getting in the same racket I’m in and conning enough people. 4chan exists as a social movement because Amway no longer works for these people.
“I’m not sure that Beran demonstrates that these folks voted in any numbers.”
True, that he doesn’t do. Though he implies it. He gives description of them moving toward action on several different issues. Voting is an action. So the implication is there. But the slacker type mentality being what it is…… it certainly is not a given.
I just was alarmed at the cross section of 4Chan, Gamergaters, PUAs and the Alt Right. In 2008 fuck these guys. Buy In 2017 however, this is a lot of people.
The conditions you lament will never change with the elite finger on the scales.
As if the elite finger is the only option for politics.
Yay! I’m the guy that sent it to you. Thanks for addressing it.
After I read the whole thing I became alarmed. Are we missing an important cog in the “reason Things Are The Way They Are” hypothesis? So I sent it to you in hopes you (and Tarheel, AG and others) would dissect.
As a lapsed Gamer myself, the whole 4Chan disgruntled lifestyle passed me by because:
However i was VERY aware of the cesspool right around the corner. I just hadn’t kept tabs on it enough to see if it had become large enough to be an issue. And now it is.
4Chan types and GamerGaters are the same people. AND they are also tied with the PUA and MRA types. Two communities that again, are populated with disgruntled misogyny (and Bigotry)
In fact, these people are Milo Y’s audience. They are the ones who internet jumped the poor SNL actress for the crime of appearing in the new Ghostbusters.
Folks, i think they are ALL the same motherfuckers. It’s not a minor group.
This fits my experience as well.
Before we get to down on the young, consider this. Written in 2011, but still relevant.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/12/labor-force-participation-rate-kids-are.html
It is worth noting this generation is far less violent than the one that preceded it. They are in almost all polling far more tolerant than their elders.
Oh, and they hate Trump far more than other generations do.
Weren’t they drawn to Bernie because of both his economic message of “spread the wealth” and his openness to racial and cultural diversity?
I wish I had a short explanation for it.
Bernie won the under 30 vote 80-20 in a lot of places.
At the end of the day I really don’t know why or fully understand why the margin was so lopsided. Partially it was issues (free college), part of it was a sense of who he was.
But in the end I don’t think I really understand it. But from the beginning in Iowa the young were everywhere on the campaign. Really only Obama had as many volunteers in the early primaries.
Amazing.
Surveyusa today had a poll today asking who put the country’s interests ahead of their own.
Sanders was first among liberals, Democrats, moderates and independents.
So I think some of it is personal.
Which is funny in a way because he could be such a jerk in his days as mayor.
This was pretty funny:
13% of Americans say Mr. Trump always tells the truth.
Young people aren’t so intrenched that they are married to the current system. Yet they are acutely aware that shit is fucked up and bullshit.
Anyone who seems to married to the current way of doing things is going to be perceived as part of the problem. And in a way, regardless of how well meaning, they are.
First off, Hillary won the popular vote by a greater margin than Bush II in either win. Obama’s stupidity in appointing Comey cost us the election, not 4chan not the opoid epidemic, etc.
Second, people vote with their tribe 90% of the time, for change when the economy is tanking, or for the candidate that channels their hate the best way when they are angry.
Voters resonate more with candidates that promise retribution to people they don’t like than those who promise good things for them. My observation is that they don’t believe the promiser of good things but they do believe that the government can be harnessed to screw people.
Why is that promise more credible?
Because these resentful masses imagine that they have been screwed over by the government (taxes, affirmative action, political correctness/diversity) and so the competency of the government to do bad has much more credibility than the promise to do good.
Reagan was a beneficiary of this as well as the terrible economy he railed against continually.
Laurie Penny on Milo Yiannopoulos:
Laurie Penny, Pacific Standard: On the Milo Bus With the Lost Boys of America’s New Right
At this point likely a somewhat younger cohort in this young white male subculture than are the folks who are on 4chan.
They might not vote but they will shape the cultural framework of US politics in the same way other minority-sized cultures have.
We are talking a middle-class and upper-middle-class young men here, not the so-called working class or the so-called trailer trash. Affluent high school graduates who are not yet going to college and not yet exactly busting out the door to be told “No” lots of times in a job search.
We are not talking about a major voting bloc yet, but given how their mentors insinuated themselves into the Republican Party and the Trump White House, some of these folks are the equivalent of the 1960’s and 1970s YAFfers who are right now in senior positions in government, politics, and media.