The news is coming so fast today that I’m hesitant to spend a lot of time writing about “my take” because I’ll miss too much while I’m doing it. So, this is more of a fly-by post. Josh Marshall makes a good point:
Seems like a good time to restate for the record that the "We fired Flynn because he lied to Pence" was obviously false from day one.
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) December 1, 2017
There’s reason to suspect that Mike Pence may have been the high level senior transition official who asked Michael Flynn to have communications with the Russians. If he asked Flynn to talk to Ambassador Kislyak and request that the Russians not react too harshly to President Obama’s announced sanctions, that would be quite amazing.
Why?
Because Mike Pence went on national television and stated that Flynn had not discussed sanctions with Kislyak. Then, when that was exposed as a lie, Pence said that he had asked Flynn directly about it and that Flynn had lied to his face. This was then used, belatedly, to rationalize firing Michael Flynn.
Court documents say that on Dec. 29, Mr. Flynn called a senior transition official who was with other members of the team at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club in Florida “to discuss what, if anything, to communicate to the Russian ambassador about the U.S. sanctions.”
This would explain why Trump wanted to protect Flynn, since Flynn was sacrificing his dream job after only a few weeks to cover for a vice-president who was falsely accusing him publicly of being a liar.
You can understand why Flynn must have expected better treatment than to be left twisting in the wind until he was facing charges for all kinds of crimes, including bribery and kidnapping.
Even if it was Jared Kushner instead of Pence who made the directive to Flynn to contact the Russians, it will still be earth-shattering for the Trump family and administration. But if it’s Pence, just, “wow!”
The other transition officials were Reince Priebus and K.T. McFarland, and I doubt either of them would have been the contact for Flynn, especially not the “senior” one.
I feel like they didn’t really understand that they existed in a post-popularity, post-consequence political state. Why cover up Pence asking Flynn to talk to Ambassador Kislyak and request that the Russians not react too harshly to President Obama’s announced sanctions? (If it was Pence.)
Why not just brazen that out? “Of course the VP did that! In his wise stewardship of the United States, he asked Russian not to overreact. Your problem with that is what, exactly?”
That is the problem here. Why a lie to cover up something that might have been so simple to explain? No one yet can explain why the lies. Part of the problem may be the donald has been getting very bad legal advise. He needed a top DC atty from the time he got the nomination and not use his divorce atty. But, in reality it got complicated with all the money…Russian money, Turkish money, Ukrainian money, and Israeli money that everyone was stuffing in their pockets.
Based just on Booman’s recent posts, let alone all the other things we know of Trump’s past, he’s been compromised for years.
I think you’re forgetting that Flynn and the Trump campaign were connected with the Russians long before his call to Kislyak. The email hacking, the attempts to hack voting machines, apparent extortion of public officials and illegal contributions to the presidential campaign are all criminal actions
Mueller might chose to go after Pence first, because that would make it more difficult for Trump to replace himself with a sympathetic replacement. If Pence is indicted first, and the Democrats have regained control of at least one house, he can’t be replaced without Democratic consent. The Republicans in Congress will then be faced with the choice to obstruct justice themselves by refusing to impeach him even though that itself won’t hand the government to the Democrats. If they don’t, they expose themselves. If they do, it becomes even more problematic not to impeach Trump later when those charges come along.
Most likely the Republicans will still refuse to impeach, but that sequence would maximize the political price.
Can Pence be indicted? Is Trump the only one who cannot?
I thought indicting the President got kicked down the curb, during Nixon (meaning, he agreed to resign rather than “putting the nation through” that).
Remember, Nixon was never indicted because Ford pardoned him.
The implication is that he could have been indicted and sent to jail, otherwise. Pence might pardon Trump to protect himself, but I’m not sure anyone else would.
Nixon was named an “unindicted co-conspirator” which action was later determined should be used only in cases where evidence of conspiracy is extensive.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/robert_mueller_has_the_authori
ty_to_name_donald_trump_an_unindicted_co_conspirator.html
Agnew was indicted, so, yes, the Veep can be indicted.
You’re right. I now remember that.
Pence has been having fund raisers in the VP residence….he knows what kind of trouble he is in.
Your headline starts from a false premise. You’re assuming that Mike Dense had any credibility to begin with.
Even if it was Jared Kushner instead of Pence who made the directive to Flynn to contact the Russians, it will still be earth-shattering for the Trump family and administration
ABC confirmed it was Jared Kushner
FWIW, I think Jarvanka are denying that claim.
Wouldn’t be nice, though, if ABC is correct?
NBC says it’s Jared.
I will wait for the waters to clear. Right now to many news organizations are trying to get the jump on each other for all to be accurate.
I instead will watch for Booman here to sort it out for a few days. Either way it seems bad for Trump.
It is looking that way, but I am also trying to control my nascent celebratory mood. Eggs, chickens, etc.
Looking at the senate tax bill should help with that. Obamacare is dead.
The House tax bill does not have a repeal of the ACA’s individual mandate. Many House members do not want to take that issue on; that’s why it isn’t in the House version. We are in a supremely hazardous circumstance on this issue, but we have the ability to affect the outcome of the conference committee by contacting our Congressmembers and raising hell.
Let’s keep the activity up, and increase it. And the day after the outcome of this fight is determined, let’s continue our various activities and collectively think of new ways to stop the worst and bring the best.
Wasn’t it Paul Manafort who forced DT to accept Pence as his running mate? There had to have been a reason for it.
Gosh, this is a good point. It’s possible to likely that Manafort knew that Pence would support major Russian interference in our elections and collusion with the Trump campaign.
Pence would support anything if he thought it would advance his career. Hopefully this brings it to a screeching halt.
Traitor-in-chief has traitors in family and on staff.
Also, too, sexual assault and gambling in the back room at Trump’s.
BooMan, you sound kind of sympathetic toward Flynn:
“You can understand why Flynn must have expected better treatment than to be left twisting in the wind until he was facing charges for all kinds of crimes, including bribery and kidnapping.”
The way I see it, Flynn made his own bed when he participated in all those crimes, including the kidnapping plan.
“expected,” not “deserved.”
Knowing a particular misogynist jerk, I can understand why he expects to get laid on a particular first date…that doesn’t mean I sympathize when he’s rejected.
Who’s in charge here?
My prayer has always been: “Take Pence first.”
It’s really hard to choose just one from a can of worms.
So Brendan’s right, NBC is saying it was Jared but then there’s also discussion that there was a 2nd member of the Transition Team that Flynn was reporting to so you may yet be right about Pence.
Why not Jared Kushner?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/kushner-senior-transition-official-told-flynn-contact-russia
. . . and are talkin’ to your friend Bello
You don’t wanna hafta go back to jail
Now be a nice fellow
You’ll be doin’ society a favor
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin’ braver
We gonna put his ass in stir
We gonna pin this [act of trea-son] on him
He ain’t no Gentleman Jim . . . “
KT McFarland has always been a bottom feeder so CNN’s report tonight that she was aware of Flynn’s Russia work and is also in legal jeopardy is just a fine cherry on top of today’s perp cake.
There was an implication on at least one news show last night that she may have been passing along approval from Trump because she would have no authority to give her boss (Flynn) the go ahead.
No, Trump wanted to protect Flynn because Flynn knew that Trump was colluding with Putin, and had been for months before the election.
Flynn was losing his dream job because it had become clear to everyone that he was working as a foreign agent and there were recordings of him clandestinely speaking with Russian officials while attempting to undermine the U.S. government. Trump had already been caught firing Yates after she warned him that she had evidence against Flynn (a preview of what he would later do to Comey). Meanwhile, he kept Flynn in a sensitive National Security position for weeks afterwards.
The excuse of firing Flynn because “he lied to Pence” was Trump’s way of claiming there was nothing wrong with Flynn’s contact with the Russians.
Do you actually believe Trump is protecting Pence?