In the past weeks, I have posted twice on pie-ings and responses to them (here and here). One comment, by BooMan, puzzled me for a bit. BooMan said that, for him, pie-ing is OK, but he draws the line at shoes.
Eventually, I got it.
No matter what David Horowitz and Ann Coulter may claim, a pie-ing is not an act of violence. It is a sign of disrespect, sure, but it is also a challenge. The pie-er isn’t trying to hurt the “victim,” but to make him or her look like a fool–and is banking on a foolish reaction. (The same cannot be said of a shoe-er).
The person pie-ed has two choices: anger or laughter. The one who reacts angrily, with pie all over his or her face, looks stupid. The one who can smile, maybe wipe the meringue off and taste it, then continue with what he or she was doing–that one will win applause. The pie-er is betting that the “victim’s” ego is too big for a reaction with humor.
At SusanHu’s “request,” here’s a poll:
The claim by the recent “victims” of pies on the right that pie-ing is the first step towards terrorism is, in light of this understanding, even more preposterous.
And, consider this: over the past quarter century (correct me if I am wrong–but I know I am not far wrong), all of the acts of domestic terrorism in the US have arisen from the right. Perhaps the left learned its lesson through the stupid and self-defeating violence a few of its adherents perpetuated in the sixties and seventies–I don’t know. But the fact remains: our home-grown terrorists come from the right. And trying to equate people who throw pies with these killers is ludicrous.
And, by the way, those 19 on the planes 9/11? They weren’t leftists.
And none of them had ever even dreamed of hitting anyone else with a pie.
At SusanHu’s “request,” here’s a poll:
I don’t know what to call the eco-terrorists that damage SUV’s and the like.
They do go to great lengths to avoid harming human beings. And that certainly distiguishes them from church-burners, abortion clinic bombers, and Tim McVeigh.
The 19 hijackers were certainly conservatives, in the sense that they opposed modernization, women’s rights, secularization…
Still, I think the left still has a few terrorists. They are just not much of the threat to life…only property.
Thanks. The eco-terrorists, I forgot them.
Though they don’t attack people, you are right: they are still violent.
I personally don’t feel that destroying property is “violence” at least in the terrorism sense. Sure it is violent to the SUVs, but aren’t they violent to our ecosystem. Are they then terrorists? Or at least the people that manufacture them and use them? (Hint: I think the argument can be made)
Hmmmph. No pie poll.
.
A dangerous path, when pies are part of a larger campagne to vilify a politician
viva – 13.05.2002 01:28
Eurodusnie collective is utterly surprised and also worried about the ANP (Dutch national press agency) report which claims that there is a direct link between the Eurodusnie collective and the Biological Baking Brigade (BBB), responsable for pieing the right-wing populist Pim Fortuyn who was murdered one week ago. Eurodusnie completely reject this claim. There is no organisational link between Eurodusnie and the BBB.
May 6, 2002 – 18:05 Hilversum Media Park – Pim Fortuyn was gunned down by Folkert van de Graaf. Fortuyn was shot 5 to 6 times to the head and chest from close range. He died within minutes, the gunman was picked up by local police within ten minutes as he tried to escape by foot to his parked car nearby. Folkert vd Graaf was an animal activist, in his daily job trying to block expansion of agriculture, farms by legal means in appeal procedures.
The double pie throwing incident was part of a vilification proces during the election campaign, especially blamed on the ruling PvdA Labor party of PM Wim Kok and candidate Ad Melkert and the Green Leftist party of Paul Rosenberg. The pie wasn’t filled with meringue, cream or shaving cream, but with a mixture of a filthy substance. Mr. Fortuyn was denied special security protection and body-guards, because he didn’t quite meet the standard requirements.
The government instituted a commission to investigate the decision taken by the leadership not to offer Mr. Fortuyn adaquate protection. Haak Commission: Fortuyn Should Have Received Protection.
A similarity I saw was the assassination of Israeli PM Yitzchak Rabin, also in an election campaign, where he was vilified by the right-wing Likud party under leadership of Binyamin Netanyahu.
WIKIPEDIA INFO —
PS In the Netherlands, there is a lot of violence from the leftist animal-rights activists. In the past there had been a bombing of the home of an under-secretary of a cabinet minister [PvdA]. Apparently, the violence originates in Great Britain with the groups like Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC). The Dutch government has taken measures to start prosecuting offenders and make harsh punishment possible.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
I think a pie filled with other than food is not a pie. A pie filled with exrement, for example, cannot serve the same function as a pie filled with lemon meringue. The former does not challenge the “victim” the way the latter does, never allowing for the “victim” to come out of it… smelling good.
As someone who has worked with the USSS, all I can say here is that throwing a pie violates the same security procedures which prevent a shooting or a bomb or a rock being thrown…
I certainly agree that a pie of cream is not violent and does not hurt anyone. But at the same time I can’t help but feel there are other ways to express disagreement than throwing food… it seems so medieval in nature, like what people used to do before witches were hanged or people were executed.
Pax
Actually, I agree. Which is why I will never throw a pie.
Just be sure that it’s technically edible. But don’t waste REAL meringue on anyone. Best to fill a tin with spray-out-of-the-can whipped goo.
Then let sh*t happen!
When I saw Bill Gates’ face covered with whipped cream I laughed. It was new. It was Bill Gates.
Now . . . not so funny.
Copy-cat anything shows a lack of creativity. I think it has reached the point where it only serves as ammunition against us. Time to move on.
I do not believe pie throwing is a type of violence that will ever go any further. These people have deliberately chosen an item that will not harm the “victim” – so they thought about it. The pie throwing is to make the victim look as foolish on the outside as we see them on the inside. A claim of terrorism is a ridiculous claim for the right to make. How many people, really, are “terrified” they will be hit by a pie.
On the other hand – I’ve never heard about a doctor being hit with a bagel as they leave an abortion clinic. These are very different types of actions.
Hell – if you need to be a copy-cat – bring back streaking . . . now that was funny! It always disturbed the event, no one could claim violence, and you don’t have to sneak anything into an area.