I’m almost at a loss for words to describe how I feel about this story. I can’t give it the justice that Boo or Susan would, but it’s something you need to know about:
“We’ve gone back to the detainee who allegedly made the allegation and he has said it didn’t happen. So the underlying allegation, the detainee himself, within the last two weeks, said that didn’t happen,” chief Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita told a briefing.
Gone back to the detainee have they? I wonder what was the line of questioning used to extract that retraction.
How much sleep deprivation did the Gitmo guards employ? What stress positions did they utilize? Did any of the press gaggle at DeRita’s news conference inquire about the “environmental manipulations” that resulted in the retraction, the disavowal of knowledge? How can we be expected to believe anything that the Pentagon or the boy-who-cried-wolf Bush administration puts forth as fact?
These people are disgusting.
Post something so I can give you a 4! Great work.
(And that poor detainee… wish we could do something for him.)
And it will be believed by those who wish to ignore the torture and abuse even though no one will be allowed to confirm this with the detainee in question in any setting not rife with coercion.
Democracy Now this afternoon (morning for you, Susan) had a section on how the FBI has detailed records of Koran, or Quran, abuse since 2002.
I believe this Pentagon story about as much as I believe Bush is actually running the government, or that there were WMDs in Iraq, or that Jenna and Not Jenna will find gainful employment before they die of cirrhosis of the liver.
Ok, ok. This article is a better description:
They started with 13 allegations, and have so far only confirmed five. Long way from being over.
Okay, so they found one detainee that would recant (likely under duress). Does this mean anything when we consider that this person is hardly the only one to make such allegations?
You are assuming the detainee recanted. This is all a game. Only an imbecile would believe the Koran was never “disrespected” during interrogation.
…why is that any different than an unnamed source in … uh… Newsweek? Because it’s the Pentagon saying it instead of the SCLM. Sorry, this reeks. It’s so easy for them to lie about what is going on at Gitmo, and given that they lie about stuff on which we can dig out the truth, it’s hard for me to believe that they aren’t lying about stuff for which the truth is so difficult to come by.
Got a Gitmo story? Let me get my salt shaker.
I feel overwhelming sadness about this story. We have multiple reports of abuse and, suddenly, there’s some poor guy being presented to wash the slate. I don’t want to think too much about how they got this retraction… Or how it is going to be served up on FauxNews.
Now I’m going to check out what happened with Bolton today and probably get really depressed.
It’s so great that the Pentagon and Mafia are now indistuingishable…
Link
Keep your eyes on the birdie
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through your Yahoo link, links to excellent related stories!
Appreciated.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
The Bolton vote has been deferred pending more info. Well, I’m not so depressed but still unhappy about the retraction guy.
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-874057.php
By Deborah Funk
Times staff writer
A bi-partisan group of legal scholars and former high-ranking government and military officials is calling for an independent commission to probe the abuse of prisoners under U.S. jurisdiction.
At a May 25 news conference in Washington, the Georgetown University-based Constitution Project’s Liberty and Security Initiative said it wants President Bush and Congress to appoint a commission much like the one that investigated the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, to dig into the abuse and torture of suspected terrorists.
Reports of such mistreatment have surfaced regularly since the invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001 and Iraq in 2003, at facilities such as Abu Ghraib near Baghdad as well as prisons in Afghanistan and the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay Naval Station, Cuba.
“We’re not here as Republicans, we’re not here as Democrats, we’re not here as conservatives, we’re not here as progressives,” said group member John Podesta, former White House chief of staff under President Clinton. “We’re here as Americans and we all want to win this war on terrorism.”
Several investigations have been conducted, but none have been government-wide, nor have any been designed to recommend to the president and Congress specific changes that could prevent future abuse, said David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union and co-chairman of the Liberty and Security Initiative.
“One of the principal accomplishments of the 9/11 commission was the comprehensive and detailed list of recommendations it provided,” said Keene. “We believe a similar approach is warranted in the context of prisoner abuse allegations.”
Creating the commission would demonstrate that all humans have “great worth and dignity,” said John Whitehead, president of the nonprofit Rutherford Institute, a conservative legal group.
The commission, if established, would have subpoena powers and could review classified material, under the plan.
panelists were disturbed by the mention of “guidelines” regarding handling the Koran and interrogations, why all this fuss over showing respect for a book held sacred by people who kill Americans.
I remembered last night, on CNN, Lou Dobbs and Ann Coulter sharing approving chuckles over a bumper sticker that says “Newsweek stories don’t kill people, Muslims do.”
This is one reason I have cancelled all cable channels (just the basic broadcast ones left, so I can do cable Internet eventually.)
While I respect those who feel they need to keep up with what these jerks are saying, I hope that others also decide to stop contibuting to paying these folks salaries.
You don’t know when he will stop growling and charge, so you don’t dare take your eyes off him even as you inch your way toward what you hope is a door.
There won’t be a lot of warning, and there won’t be any paramedics to rush up in an ambulance and treat you once you’re down.
They’re not with you, they’re with the rabid dog.
have perfectly created a binary view of the MSM that frames the only two natural human reactions to it.
It’s a pretty good movie. The US media is still a couple of notches above the Rwanda radio station on the subtlety scale, but dropping fast.
I have found the following to be true:
Many Americans, even religious Christians, really could care less if someone pisses on a Bible or uses it to line their birdcage.
And they think that Muslims should consider the Koran no more sacred than Bible. They are two books, basically the same, with some cultural differences, and some different theology, but not metaphysically different.
In short, they don’t think we should mistreat the Koran, but they have trouble why Muslims care so much. Their attitude is that it would be easier for Muslims to grow up and join the 21st century, than it would be to get the Pentagon to behave.
If that is true, that most Christian do not care about descecrating the bible. I think the reverse is true, that Christians would be screaming to high heaven if a bible was descecreated by anyone, let alone a ‘terrorist’. Similar to the flag burning of the 60’s and 70’s. Very big deal and hue and cry over that one. I would also mention art work in the past that was denigrating Jesus, etc. and the uproar over that.
I said “many people”, not “most Christians”.
Big difference.
I’m talking about people that are left-wing, hate Bush, don’t approve of torture at all.
But the Koran thing doesn’t bother them much.
they don’t accept the significance of what the Muslims themselves say it means to them and the effect it has on them and the reaction. That certainly is strange.
ARe you also saying that these same folks are ambivilant about the Bible used in the same manner as well.
Do you find in general, the people you are referring to are not formally religious or not religious at all.
Very interesting.
from the people I talk to is this:
The Bible is a book like Huckleberry Finn, Ben Hur, The Koran, and The Complete Works of Shakepeare.
Whatever is valuable about faith in God, or faith in Jesus is not contained in that book any more than in the latest issue of Christianity Today.
If you mistreat the Bible you are an ass for needlessly upsetting people, but you haven’t actually done anything that has any effect. God could care less.
Therefore, the same holds true for the Koran. It’s obnoxious behavior, but only because it upsets people with a medieval mindset.
Telling them that Muslims feel differently about the Koran than even your wingnutiest Christian neighbor has little effect on them.
Their reaction is: well they are even crazier than my crazy neighbor.
But what they are failing to take into account, beyond a sensitivity to people’s feelings, is that this is disastrous public relations. And there is no good reason to do it.
I am curious, Would these same people IYO feel the same way if the subject was flag burning, or descecreation of same by any one, our citizens, terrorists or Muslims.
The statement”It is just a piece of material and the true meaning/spirit of American cannot be found in that material object”, could be extended to that subject and make a similar case.
You didn’t answer if the people you are referring to are formally religious.
and I’m talking about people raised in the Christian tradition. They might go to church once a year, or every week.
As for flag burning, that is going to offend a different subset of the population. A lot of people are upset by flag burning. I don’t understand it and think they should study eastern religions for a long weekend and get over it.
But, I would never burn anyone’s flag. It’s stupid. It’s obnoxious. It needlessly upsets people. And it never makes the point you are hoping to make.
Sometime in the next five years we might destroy all life in Persia. And it will be because we all watched Persians burn flags 26 years ago. We didn’t learn anything but blind hatred from the Iranian’s outbursts.
It’s all stupid. Americans and Iranians have no monopoly on stupid.
The dumbest thing of all is to get angry at someone whose only purpose is to make you angry.
some others in the west comprehend the significance of desecrating the Koran:
Torahs are hand-written, and are valuable objects of art entirely aside from religious significance, in fact the Nazis stole quite a lot of them, but the reverence and status as a sacred object is not because of their value as historical artifacts or art.
Those who are having a hard time understanding why it is such a “big deal” might ask a Jewish friend how big a deal it would be if gunmen seized a Jew, put him in a cage and threw a Torah scroll into the toilet.
(please forgive repost)
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Sometimes text can show humor or make a very pointed statement.
But recent Church sign and related text, just shows ignorance and bigotry of MS ordinary Americans.
“FOX NEWS – I don’t believe it, why should you?”
“Bush.gov don’t kill people, US Marines do.”
“Pilot Bush lands on carrier – Mission Accomplished – 30 years late!”
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Isn’t it time to put faces on these people? Who is this “detainee?” What is he being detained for? Why is he apparently still there three years after the reported abuse?
Is anybody reporting this? These are people, as Bob Herbert’s column today reminds us.
How do we know that he really retracted? Do we just have their word for it? If so, why should we believe it, given the fact that this administration is so prone to lying?
The whole story from top to bottom makes me sick.. and Muslims kill people??? How would that bumpersticker look if it said “Newsweek doesn’t kill people, Jews do” or “Newsweek doesn’t kill people, blacks do” or etc etc.. sheesh.
I understand “tough talk” out of Americans, I really do, even though its not well perceived outside of her borders. But this rampant racism and collective hatred is simply too much.. there are millions of Muslim Americans, just as American as anyone else.. where are they?
We need to start to write about Muslim Americans who are respected and well-liked in America. They’re just too invisible to too many people. I think starting with sport stars would be effective. Since I’m not a fan of sports I wouldn’t know where to begin. Boo you know any Muslim baseball players? Famous ones?
Singers, actors and sports stars, Muslim ones, need to start standing up for their religion. This whole case of disrespecting religion makes me puke.
Pax
Have you checked your email for any emails from one Jerome, known to reside in Paris?
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I still receive from contacts in previous job, Aramco World sometimes includes illustrations or photo’s based on the Qur’an or its text.
Always a note is added to be respectful to these pages, as they should not be thrown away in the trash banister!
It’s a wonderful and informative source over the great Arabic Culture and Science.
Hirsi Ali with bodyguard
This is also why the film produced in the Netherlands “Submission” by Theo van Gogh and its script written by politica Hirsi Ali, was so offensive and led to a Dutch Muslim fanatic killing van Gogh in revenge. The Dutch have called the murder an act of terror, but no Islamic scholar or believer mourns.
PS Murder investigation is still going on, a terror cell called “Hofstad Group” has been dismantled. Recent days two additional arrests were made, one in France, of a Muslim from Chechen descent.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité