I’ve been skimming the analysis that’s coming out in the blogosphere, and there is a lot of interesting speculation about who exactly is in legal jeopardy.
Two things are keeping me from writing my own speculation. One, my grasp of the Plame case is rusty. I haven’t been keeping track of who testified, and I haven’t put together a timeline. Secondly, the possible legal ramifications are so wide-ranging that it’s hard to know where to start.
But the politics of this are easier to gauge. The Cooper e-mail exposes Rove as one of the sources for the Time article, and it specifies that Rove told him: “Wilson’s wife, [] apparently works at the agency on wmd…”
Rove has claimed that he didn’t know Wilson’s wife’s name. That assertion may, or may not, have legal consquences. But, from a political point of view, it doesn’t matter. We now know that Rove read the Wilson editorial in the New York Times, and then called Cooper. He told Cooper that the information he was about to give him was on “double super secret background”. Then he revealed that Wilson’s wife was a CIA officer who worked on issues related to weapons of mass destruction.
He had to tell Cooper where she worked within the agency because otherwise Cooper would not have been able to understand how she could have influenced the decision to send her husband on a hunt for yellowcake.
Rove will say that he was only trying to counterspin a story, and that he didn’t know Plame’s name, let alone that she was undercover. But, again, politically this doesn’t matter.
What matters politically are things like this:
and this:
“And again I repeat, you know, Washington is a town where there’s all kinds of allegations. You’ve heard much of the allegations. And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it. And that would be people inside the information who are the so-called anonymous sources, or people outside the information — outside the administration. And we can clarify this thing very quickly if people who have got solid evidence would come forward and speak out. And I would hope they would.
“And then we’ll get to the bottom of this and move on. But I want to tell you something — leaks of classified information are a bad thing. And we’ve had them — there’s too much leaking in Washington. That’s just the way it is. And we’ve had leaks out of the administrative branch, had leaks out of the legislative branch, and out of the executive branch and the legislative branch, and I’ve spoken out consistently against them and I want to know who the leakers are.” – George W. Bush (9/30/03)
Now, if Rove concealed that he was the leaker from Bush, then that is a breach of trust that has damaged Bush’s credibility. I would think that Bush would fire Rove for that. But no one in their right mind is going to believe that Rove concealed the truth from Bush. Bush said he would take “appropriate action” if he learned who the leakers were. But all he did with Rove, was promote him to assistant Chief-of-Staff.
There is no way to spin this. It is a disaster for the President.
…..and look as the way this WH delivers on that which they really mean things.
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~”And then we’ll get to the bottom of this and move on. But I want to tell you something — leaks of classified information are a bad thing. And we’ve had them — there’s too much leaking in Washington. That’s just the way it is. And we’ve had leaks out of the administrative branch, had leaks out of the legislative branch, and out of the executive branch and the legislative branch, and I’ve spoken out consistently against them and I want to know who the leakers are.” – George W. Bush (9/30/03)
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they not only fire ppl, or they leave due to things being rotten. IE, O’Neil, Sibyl Edmand(whats her name, of FBI), Clark, and others, they all know what is in store for them upon telling the truth..those liars get promoted to higher places. Now tell me what a way to carry on business is this???!!!
I cannot begin to hide my glee with all this information. I am truly trying hard not to get too excited. The big question for me in light of Bush’s quoted statement in your diary Booman from 2003 is How can he possibly not fire him?
and I can’t see how Rove survives past Monday.
But, there are facts that we don’t have, and this story is bigger than Karl Rove. It might be too risky for them to fire Rove for some reason I can’t wrap my head around.
But, I agree. How can they not fire him immediately? What will McClellan say at the press gaggle tomorrow? What could he possibly say?
Do you think the WH press corps will ask about Karl Rove?
they will have to ask. Even they are not THAT neutered.
Scottie will say many words that mean nothing, as he always does.
The Right-Wing noise machine is already gearing up to drown out any discussion of Rove’s culpability with endless nattering about Wilson’s credibility. Their usual MO. Wish I was as optimistic as you are.
Oh Rove will hand Scottie puppet exactly what to say. I am almost positive they are going to continue with the meme of “Did not “knowingly” out a CIA agent. I cannot wait until tomorrow. What will the dems say about all this. They have been so silent.
Silence is good at this point. I wish I had more faith in what they’ll do once the shit does hit the fan, tho.
Yeppers, having faith in the party is sometimes hard these days but right now they are all we have. It is up to the American people to quit being so apathetic and hold a flame to their reps no matter which side they are on. The TRUTH will set us free. It’s “hard work” you know.
and I’d bet if Rove is indicted Junior will defiantly pardon him immediately, with statements like “Carl’s a great public servant”, “Carl’s a great patriot”, “Carl has tirelessly worked to make America safer”… etc. etc.
I say this because….
Junior will pardon him, announce a replacement for Carl’s position w/public statement Rove is no longer cabinet level, then just continue to have him do as he’s always done w/-0- public visibility.
Whole thing will be accompanied by some sideshow diversion: raising terror levels, invading Iran, going to Mars…
What I’m wondering is how Rove thought he was going to get out of this one. He had to know that the reporters would be forced to turn over their correspondence eventually and that, even if there wasn’t enough there to convict him of treason, the lies told to protect him pre-investigation would come back to bite him and his boss in the ass. And it’s going to be hard to spin “apparently works at the agency” into “didn’t know she was CIA”. Damn hard. Especially since, to know that, he’d have to know that she was undercover. Or there’d be no apparently about it.
So why promote Rove after the election, instead of having him retire victorious and continue to manage things unofficially? Their actions make no sense. Did they really think this’d blow over or roll off?
I think the most damaging thing here wouldn’t be Rove going to jail or getting hit with formal charges. I think the most damaging thing here are the lies the WH told to protect Rove. They said he was innocent, and now information’s coming out that he very much wasn’t.
I thought you all might like to see what John at Powerline says about all of this today:
“It is hard to see how Rove could be indicted for violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, and it is very unlikely that he would have been foolish enough to testify falsely before the grand jury about his conversations with journalists. None of this will matter much, though, when it is publicly acknowledged that Rove was one of the sources of the Plame “leak.” (This isn’t, by the way, the sort of communication that is ordinarily referred to as a “leak.”) We can expect a media feeding frenzy or potentially unprecedented proportions.
Rove presumably told the President that he was one of the sources of the Plame information long ago. It is interesting that Bush didn’t take the path of least resistance and ease Rove out of the administration at the end of his first term. The President’s reputation for loyalty to has aides is certainly well-deserved.”
I’m not sure what an “ordinary leak” is or what he’s talking about. Anyone have any ideas? And doesn’t it just warm you heart that the President is loyal to his friends?
despite his weak effort at spin, he basically agrees with me. This is a big story, and it is really damaging.
When he moves from “dismissive spin” to “warning the troupes spin,” things don’t look good for the wingers. I just hope this breaks through the London bombings and the hurricane. But then even if it doesn’t hit now, it certainly will as Fitzgerald continues his work. And God knows the American public will not be able to pay attention to London and the Florida Panhandle for very long!!
Novak sniffs around because his sources tell him that Wilson’s report “was regarded by the CIA as less than definitive, and it is doubtful Tenet ever saw it.”
Novak “reports”:
“The CIA’s decision to send retired diplomat Joseph C. Wilson to Africa in February 2002 to investigate possible Iraqi purchases of uranium was made routinely at a low level without Director George Tenet’s knowledge.”
Two references to the CIA, what Tenent did not know, then he outs Plame:
“Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction.”
How does Novak know that Wilson “never worked for the CIA”, since diplomats are the usual intelligence suspects and if he had, wouldn’t this information be classified? How does Novak know Plame is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction? He’s given us the clues – the CIA told him.
Novak goes for the payback:
“Two senior administration officials told me Wilson’s wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.”
In Novak/Rove world, it’s the CIA pushing the “Plame was behind Wilson’s trip” story and the CIA uses Rove and Novak. Neither has any reason to believe the CIA would hand off classified information or out one of their own. Since Rove wasn’t told that Plame was a covert op, he couldn’t “knowingly” pass on classified information to Novak, Cooper or Miller.
So would someone in the CIA out one of its own? Because Plame used her own husband to discredit the agency on WMD intel.
Dump Rove? The puppet dumps the puppeteer? I don’t think so. He may be forced into that finally as a last ditch asscovering move, but not until the bitter end. OTOH, I think rooting for the firing of Rove by our side is misplaced. That will just give Bush some cover that the “journalists” can use to excuse him as usual, and you can bet the farm that Rove will still be lurking as the dirty trickster as usual. His government post is irrelevant.
I think we need to forget about Rove’s fate and stick to the important question: what outcome will damage Bush the most?
Rove getting “fired” doesn’t mean a damn thing. If anything it makes Bush look better. Meanwhile, the murderous Iraq adventure and the rape of our Constitution continues unabated.
> I think we need to forget about Rove’s fate and stick to the important question: what outcome will damage Bush the most?
this point can not be made often enough.
it’s too easy for this thing to unfold as a drama about personality and legal process – with potential for endless spinning and manipulation of the public’s perception.
the best thing we can do with this is recognize the fact of life that this sort of drama may be necessary for significant media attention. But the publicity may be best used as an opportunity to raise a more crucial point:
the Bush administration blew a long-term CIA operation working on WMD in order to cover-up lies used to lead us into a disastrous and unnecessary war in Iraq.
More like co-dependency on his pusher.
An apt choice of words. He keeps coming back.
In OUR eyes this will be a disaster for the administration, but how do you see that trickling down through the WH press corps and the SCLM to a public that is more concerned with “strong leadership in the war on terror” and may not be familiar with this case or even with Chairman Rove?
I may just be cynical, but I really don’t see this catching the interest of the American public. My guess few even know who Plame is and probably don’t care that her name was leaked.
We’ve slept through Darfur, torture, the Downing Street Memos. Unless Rove demanded to have sex with the journalists in exchange for information the public is likely not to care in the least — which means that Bush escapes basically unharmed.
Clinton did a bunch of really bad shit that nobody noticed, and what finally became a media frenzy?
These things are not all that predictable.
Everytime I’m thinking/reading about this story, somehow “Guckert/Gannon” keeps banging away at my tiny mind for entry. Just some kind of intuition or superstition or something, nothing rational involved. Feels like he’s a huge key to the whole puzzle.
Any way that makes some kind of sense to anyone?
I have always thought since the Plame story started growing legs that Gannon would somehow become the fall guy.
I think the same thing, and then you can tie in Hannity too, I believe as I did extensive research earlier this year and I don’t think he is innocent in this whole deal either….
that I did take written notes reg. this whole deal and tying them all together(media to the memo) a big bunch, if you like I could try to put it in a congent form and post here, but I cannot do it right now…I have to figure it all out again and refresh my mind on it…I think I have the links also on my computer…
Hannity was protege of Roger Ailes and what I found out was that Ailes met Hannity and fox News was born that day..Sept. 1996…We know the ties of Ailes to Bush 1.
I think I can piece all of my notes together if there is interest. I just have basic notes, not texts.
you mean? And Plame/Wilson? Now that would be interesting. I don’t see any connections there right now, so if you can suggest some, please do when time allows. (No rush on this one, I don’t think — it’s going to be around, or be popping up again, for a long time. Right through Nov. 06, among other important dates.)
Gannon leaked his news to Hannity, Hannity said I got a scoop coming up tomorrow from Gannon,(added some fine credentials for gannon) Hannity started as a reg. call in to a talk radio show, advertises for a radio show and gets its, meets Limbaugh, then Roger Ailes, then Fox. Didn’t finish college, was a contstruction worker when he got radio job, fired from that….then Limbaugh..(Look up Hannity and add scandal to his name.).
Then just coincidentally? gets this scoop from Gannon who has all these ties, you know where that goes…
Gannon, to Rove, to whitehouse, to a long list of names…
Some have ties through Iran/Contra, others through Liberty Lobby, New American Century, It would take a huge chart to plot this all out…It would take a mighty big net to gather them all in…And it isn’t just this story, its the swift boats, its the anti Kerry, and on and on….
Too many “ifs”, “apparentlys”, and general unknowns. Virtually everything published to date is, at best heresay. Step out of your political and into your court watcher shoes. The only people who are important are the members of the Grand Jury, and no indictments have been issued. And remember that a Grand Jury indictment is the beginning of the process. This one will be around for a long, long time.
No one will be “frog-marched”. At that level I would expect (maybe) a resignation or two (to devote full-time to a defense), but more likely the parties will stay in place once the right-wing noise machine gets geared up. No one has been indicted, much less convicted. Let the legal process run. Already beginning to smell like a lynch mob.
Here is the guy I want to hear from:
Interview with former Ambassador Joseph Wilson
July 9, 2001
Seems to me there’s still some key information missing. But if I were plotting this for a novel, I’d see the silence of J. Miller as the key.
If Rove started this whole thing off with Miller, or if in fact it was Miller who came up with the info on Plame, then Rove now knows what the prosecutor can prove, and he can play the legalisms. No, he didn’t name her (just called her Wilson’s wife.) No, he didn’t know she was covert, just a CIA analyst.
What the recent relevations indicate is how closely key members of the press listen to Rove. He felt perfectly comfortable “advising” the Time reporter.
If Miller doesn’t have anything on Rove, why wouldn’t he do for her what he did for the Time reporter, and give her permission to name him and turn over notes, so she could avoid jail?
As it is, Miller in jail is a winner for both Rove and Miller. Rove gets her silence, and she gets to be the hero and martyr of the fourth estate.
So if Rove is confident that she won’t talk, he can play it as it lays now.
Can’t wait for the next chapter.
Crossing my fingers for more headlines like this one: “Bush aide Rove was Time reporter’s source-Newsweek” The article is from Reuters.
ahem.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA!
Can we start replaying Rove’s Greatest Hits now on all the cable news channels? Let’s show the country how despicable this man is–and don’t forget to mention that he is Bush’s Most Trusted Advisor.