I just got through picking my jaw up off the floor. I was chowing down on some dinner and watching MSNBC’S Hardball with Tweety Mathews. There was banter back and forth about Rove and how the president should or should not fire Rove. Biden’s answers were the worst case of sidestepping other than the administration I have seen any Dem spew. Biden said things like “I respect the president” blah blah blah. This in my estimation was bad enough.
Now, here is the show stopper folks. Ending the interview Tweety asks “Do the Dems wish they had somebody like Karl Rove?” Joe looks a little befuddled, smiles his veneers and says “Well, yeah”. WTF!!! Buzzer here….wrong answer Joe. What should have been said was “No F’ing way would the dems want someone on their team that lies to the American public and endangers its citizens National Security by outing an covert Cia agent that works undercover on WMD detail. Again I say WTF?
With representatives like Joe Biden who needs enemies? He said at one time when asked about Dean’s comments about republicans Joe’s reply was “He doesn’t speak for me”. Well Senator Biden, you certainly do not speak for me and I am sure I could count about 54 millions others that feel the same way. What a disgrace to our Party and country.
Saw it, yep, Biden is an idiot. And if you noticed, he paused before he gave that answer. So he had a few seconds to think and he still couldn’t just say “no”. So much for thinking on your feet. Apparently he was thinking with his feet.
I don’t think so folks, think about it, do we want the attention to switch to what Biden said, that was a loaded question and Biden was right not to take the bait, imho,,,,How he said it was quite telling, and I think may have gotten the message across, if he would have added a but, well there would be something to pounce on…
See I am torn about this, on the one hand I want them (Dems) to just shout out to the high heavens, this bunch are crooks, but on the other hand, they (reps) are looking for the slightest thing they can find to blow all out of proportion. So everything the Dems do has to be carefully crafted, we don’t want a gang war, we want the Reps. to get the message.
What he does is another matter, behind the scenes.
But the focus should remain on Rove and Bush too, for as long as we can keep it there.
Well those are my thoughts, I could of course be wrong.
BTW Aloha, what’s your beef with Biden, I think he has done quite well in the judiciary committee with the Bolton nomination and other times I have seen him in action. There is a delicate rope to be walked in the halls of congress, the behind the scenes happenings are far more important.
We need Reps. in congress to even get an inquiry into Bush co and dealings, we need them for an impeachment. I don’t think it is a good time to back down on our own side just because they have a slip of the tongue or don’t say what you wish they would or their vote is not to your liking.
Well those are some more of my thoughts on this…
I missed the Hardball interview because I just got home from work; but regarding Biden and the way he attracts the ire of progressives there are two words: Bankruptcy Bill. He sold out the best interest of his constituents by pandering to MBNA who is housed in Wilmington.
Biden can be a fiery speaker. I have been proud of him many times on the floor of the Senate, but he is also doing a lot more pandering since he announced his 2008 aspirations. Those are just some thoughts.
(Look at you aloha! ‘lil miss diary-maker you!)
a long-time admirer of Biden, and even purued a job on his staff for a while.
But I was disgusted by the bankruptcy bill. He has always sought to be a player with the big boys, and the corporate masters. But that is not his whole record.
If it comes down to Biden vs. Hillary, I will be on Biden’s side. At the same time, we need to build a power base that can allow Democrats to ignore their traditional money base.
agree with your last sentence. Biden needs to do alot of penance though or he will forever be known as (D-MBNA). Regarding 2008, I will support a box of rocks, refusing to sleep while I canvass, as long as we end the Republican control of our government, a.k.a. my worst nightmare.
My feeling is if I was in office, not even all my friends here would like everything I said or voted on or did. But still I would be trying to do my job, in the best way I could.
Still say, we cannot lose even one Dem. and keep in mind when we get back into power the rhetoric will change as will the way things are done.
Oh and FYI, the question was dropped in at the very end of the interview, no time for a lengthy answer in any case.
I would venture a guess that privately his answer would be much different.
Also I think Biden was surely answering that question out of the context of “a political strategest’, and not as a (spin here) a ‘leaker of classified info’, which is still “unproven”(according to the reps). Reps are all over the smear thing, ‘the dems are smearing a fine man just cause they lost to him‘…so that would be the crux of my point.
Who do you think gives the republicans their talking points and spin? The spinmaster himself Rove for one. Looks like karl may be out of a job soon. Maybe Biden is looking to hire him for his run at the Presidency…lol.
Even if Rove is out of a job, will he ever really be “out of a job”, I wonder, he probably still could run things, even in jail.
And I do know who the “talking points master” is. We all know that all too well, methinks.
BTW Booman, excellent point about the Bingo comment, that was a real zinger he did there…and he can throw them ‘good’ when he wants to…
First of all my beef was with what Biden said tonight. I think he screwed up. This is why the republicans win. Allow me to pose the same question to you that was asked of Biden. Would you want someone like Rove working for the dems? I have backed Biden when he has stood up like the Bolton hearings and I was impressed with him at the time. I was also very disgusted with him when he voted in favor of the bankruptcy bill due to the fact that he is highly backed by the banks and credit card companies that call his state home. No, I do not expect any politician to always vote the way I think they should, that would just be silly. But given what ROVE has put us through during the last two elections, the deception, the smearing of good people, the manipulation of facts, the coverups and the lies, anyone that says he should be working for our side has just lost my confidence. Guess we are just going to have to differ on this one my friend.
I understand why you are pissed. But Biden is an artist. I missed the very end of the interview where the incident occurred.
However, his too clever by half discussion of Supreme Court philosophy was brilliantly faux-moderate.
And his earlier slam of Rove was a masterstroke.
He set Matthews up by pretending Rove was acting on his own: “Who made him God?”
Then Matthews suggested he was just carrying out the President’s wishes:
Biden: (Big Smile) Bingo! That’s even worse. Then we have a BIG problem!
It was a triumph.
So, with Joey, you have to take the great with the lousy.
I love that.
you have to take the great with the lousy.
true of another natural, a certain Bubba.
This is an example of the political climate in action. Any yielding on behalf of the Dems to the “middle” is actually a loss for us because the Repubs have spent so much energy keeping their critters in line. Bowers did an amazing analysis on vote defections and it surprised me how loyal the Rs remained. The middle ground is a loss for us though as long as they continue their rigid hold. I guess that’s why it gets so frustrating to see defections on our side–we yearn for that same discipline and hope that it will give us victory.
I agree with you on that part of the interview. The end question and answer because of my disgust for a scumbucket like Rove, just really pissed me off. I needed to vent it and knew this was the safe place for me to do so. I thank all who took the time to read and comment here. Input and other points of view are the only way we can look at things with an open, objective mind.
I liked your rant.
I probably would have been annoyed by that too, but it is a part of schtick.
Joey always tries to appear reasonable:
“I have a lot of respect for the President”
“I’d like to have a guy like Karl Rove working for us”
But he only does it to add weight to the criticisms.
He’s very Clintonian and calculating. That is both good and bad. As was his interview tonight.
My real beef with Biden is really a beef with the Democratic Party. And we are working to change that everyday. Biden will eventually come calling to us, instead of caving to his corporate constituents in Delaware.
The problem, though, is that it doesn’t add weight to his criticisms. Progressives look at it and go “What a sellout”. Neo-cons and theocrats look at it and go “He’s lying and pretending to be like us. We won’t be fooled!” And moderates look at it and go “Hey, maybe this Rove guy’s okay… Biden approves of what he did!”
He’s so sharp, he’s gone and stabbed himself in the guts.
Interesting, I missed earlier parts of the interview (see comment at top). Apparently he had both good and bad tonight.
I thought ‘beef with Biden’ was cute and that’s why I used it, hope you didn’t take that wrong. I was thinking you had some long standing disputes with him and I see that you do, and that’s what I was asking.
Gee and I forgot all about the Bankruptcy bill, but I just can’t keep all of that info straight, about all of them, there is just so much to remember.
I agree with many of the points you have made above, and I have further clarified mine above…
I am not disagreeing with you Aloha, on the point of what I would have liked him to say, I am just presenting another point of view that may or may not be viable. I wanted him to say the same thing as you did, hell no.!
In any case Aloha, very nice diary, it allows for a discussion of the pros and cons. I am happy to see you doing so well with diaries… <<hugs>>
Nah, no problemo Diane. As I said…I needed a place to rant and its safe to do so here. It also brought up great points of the interview that I dismissed because I was seeing red. I turn into a bull when I see red…lol.
And you are not even a Taurus, which I am and have been called a ‘bull’ many a times, but I think I have mellowed a little in some regards, <<<she says quietly so her kids will not hear>>>>>>…
Anyway I was much more angry at Mellman today on CNN, and Monica Crowley MSNBC whom I cannot abide. I was seeing red then for sure….lol
I usually try to reserve anger for the “red” side..I got ‘plenty’ for that….
Monica is just another Ann Coulter albeit a tad more refined…haha. I am beat. Time to turn down the lights and turn off the news and on to some mindless tv or a book. You all have a great night.
Enjoy a night of rest, see you around tomorrow.
–slightly plagiarized from your most excellent rant:
Chris Matthews: “Do the Dems wish they had somebody like Karl Rove?” You look a little befuddled, smile and say “Well, yeah”. Wrong answer, Senator. Here’s what you should have said: “We want someone with integrity–not someone who lies to the American public and endangers its citizens by outing an covert CIA agent that works undercover on WMD.” With friends like you, the Democratic Party doesn’t need enemies. Until you can get with the program, you don’t speak for me.
How can Biden ask for someone with integrity when he, and many others serving in Washington, don’t really understand the meaning of integrity?
His answer was proof of the pudding.
What can I say? Of course you’re right.
Well, I saw the interview. Ironically enough, I got more miffed at a completely different part of his segment.
Why can’t the Democrats talk about faith issues without getting nervous? He seemed figety and uncomfortable talking about the fact that he’s a Catholic. He seems plagued by the same problem that Kerry has–they may be faithful people put they appear to simply be acting the part. We need to hear some real passion guys!
I guess we all caught different parts of it. I just caught the tail end of that part manny. I can understand your being miffed. It is like dem christains are afraid of being linked with the extremists somehow.
He screws up too often.
Agreed.