I judge people by little details.
To me, the details are evidence of who I wish to be associated with.
It is, of course, subjective
Let me explain a little on the flip…
This world is full of spin. Of manufactured personalities.
But in the freeform correspondence we indulge in here – over many weeks – it would be difficult to fake a personality. It would not be worth the effort.
I know Booman is young, has a dog, a girlfriend/lover/partner. And is dedicated to overthrow Republican control.
I know this because everything he says supports this. In detail.
I don’t have a handle on who Susanhu is, but the diaries speak of a dedicated journalist – too much work to fake.
I have a ‘sense’ of who other people are. Ghostdancer, Diane, Shirl or Oui I accept without question. And many others, with the clear wisdom of age.
I feel a kinship with those who expose their daily lives. You are too numerous to mention, but you know who you are.
Others I am more circumspect about. Because the details of your lives are more hazy. I don’t fully understand your motivation for writing what you do. And until I do, I am at one remove. I listen, but I am a sceptic.
To me, the facts are only relevant in relation to the auteur.
To trust the facts that someone presents to me, I need to know who that someone is.
That is why the social aspects of Booman Tribune are important.
If an unknown Paul Revere rode by my house tonight shouting in the middle of the night, I would be inclined to shout back: “WTF?”
I need to know who is on my side….
I work to feel the words that are written here. I watch for how others are treated and how responses are framed. In this internet world, one can’t see emotion, that makes the internet emotionless, so I have to reach out and find the feeling.
I used the words yesterday, talk the talk, but also walk the walk. Do my words and how I treat others even when I vehemently disagree, match how I express myself in this medium?
I can only tell you that I strive to treat everyone here, the same way I would treat them if I was talking to them face to face. I do not agree with everything that is stated here. I agree with more than I disagree, but I make every effort to agree to diagree, as that is how I was trained as a counselor and that is how I was habilitated in my recovery.
Sven, you have touched on a very important aspect of this information medium and I thank you for your wisdom and your willingness to bring it forth. I have a great deal of respect for many of the diarists whom I have had the privilege of reading. Booman has afforded me a wonderful opportunity to share what I believe is important and to express it so that others may have a chance to explore not only what I have written, but how it may impact their lives as well.
Thank you all for being a part of my life today.
May your Great Spirit guide your steps always
I used to belong to an internet community where I was actually myself. I mean, everyone knew my full, real name and I even felt secure enough to link to a photo album showing pictures of me and my first grandson. Everyone knew where I worked and what I did. It was a small, sub-cultural forum limited to about 500 participants so I felt safe exposing the facts of my life.
I don’t feel that way on a political forum. I’m sure the FBI could figure out who I am but I don’t want random freepers to be able to locate me or harrass me via email. But, despite that fear, I’ve exposed more of myself here at BooTrib than I ever did anywhere else. I like that. I maintain the illusion of being unknown while sharing exactly who I am.
And you’re right, Sven, socializing is one of the things that makes this site unique. We do all have a grasp of who each of us are. We know which of us are recovering, which of us are in pain, which of us are older, which of us smokes… It lends a depth to our opinions that would not be there otherwise.
Yep, I am not advocating that we reveal all about ourselves. But the little personal details certainly make a difference to how I read others comments.
I have not been myself, or written under my own name, birth name, for years…. While I am free to write, and where I am free to write, I do. The content of what I write is true… but I learned, or was taught, that in order to continue, under some circumstances, one must go underground. Recent circumstances make that “go subterranean.”
It reminds me of what Einstein said, “One cannot solve problems at the same level at which one created them.” Likewise with freedom of the press… it is difficult to fight for freedom of the press from the platform of political expression. Maybe those who knew better than I knew that art — literature — is the most subversive language…. Political language is problematic in that it’s purposes are to reveal as much as to conceal… it becomes propaganda for “la cause juste” but propaganda, nonetheless.
But I think your approach is dead on accurate… annecdotal evidence, eyewitness accounts, and try to strip away the “spin” the “frame” and the propaganda…. not easy. I believe that when the people are given the truth, they will do the right thing. But the people must be as passionate in their pursuit of truth, as must be those reporters who dare to tell it.
Here we go again… access and inclination…
ACCESS: not everyone has access to the truth, the facts, or to many-sided reports of the truth… i.e. Australia bloggers cannot access Geocities because Mainland China blocks that access. Chinese bloggers do not have access to any report that includes the word “democracy” as Google has acquiesced and blocked that term from their news listings…. The free people who assume that others enjoy the same level of freedom and access to information assume wrong! And people who do not question their news sources are almost always wrong….. we must always question, “What does this writer want me to think about this story and WHY?”
INCLINATION: My finding is that the majority of people have no or little or very limited inclination to find out the true report. As long as the lines are clearly drawn between left and right, right and wrong, liberal and conservative…. they are willing to follow one line and condemn another. But this is not in the spirit of inquiry… and it comes to a certain point, the breaking point, when one does not want to see what one cannot understand…. decent people cannot conceive of violence and evil… they cannot shift their moral point of view. They cannot conceive of it, so they must deny or attack it, or not look at all.
TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH & NOTHING BUT…This has happened to me… it took a long time before I could understand that there are some car bombers who intentionally targeted a crowd of children in Baghdad. It took 24 hours before I could see the story for what it was. In my effort to deny what I could not understand, I edited out of the story those facts that would lead one to the conclusion that there was a plan to kill children…. but it is true, has happened before, and will happen again. I wrote the true report as completely as I could find it.
The only redemptive effect in this effort is that we are all involved in all of humanity, and that one is not powerless to bring about change. Writing and activism is part of that effort, as is voluntary humanitarian work. And ordinary kindness is extraordinary, a liberal and open-minded kindness and generosity, expressed in small acts, does wonders in the world.
Sorry to go on for so long, Sven.
Bergson uses this figure to propound his metaphysical concept of duration, in terms of which the self is essentially temporal, always opening out into the future but incorporating its entire past. Bergson holds that we create ourselves continually; consciousness cannot go through the same state twice; we move toward a future that cannot be predicted.
Nevertheless, the self endures out of the past into the present; there is a continuity of personality like a thread on a ball or like the distinctive palette of a particular artist. Paradoxically past, present, and future–changing yet continuous–multiple yet one–the self can never be wholly grasped by intellectual concepts. But it can be “intuited.”
Intuition of the enduring self is the great subject of Proust, who knew Bergson’s work well. The Proustian memory, activated by a concrete sensation, rediscovers a concrete past that the abstract intellect has simplified and partially lost. By recapturing past time, Proust re-enters the fluid world of endurance and thereby repossesses himself.
So, re-inventing oneself continuously… not to conceal, but to reveal the new creation… as cells are rebuilt and recreated during sleep, and one’s whole blood supply is new every three months, and every cell in one’s body is new every seven years… if i am not my cells, (which I am not) if everything i perceive is filtered through my set of fears and traumas and prejudices and blind spots… if my memory is faulty… and my understanding is limited, and my knowledge is incomplete… i can only find myself in love, and only identify myself in intimacy with the beloved and lonliness before what I continue to call “God”… and this experience is of the nameless void.
I think we have to start a philosophy room here 😉
Just hope there’s enough room on the server….
I really appreciate long replies!
Thanks for sharing
It appears to me that it’s all spin and that every personality is manufactured, albeit for the most part innocently and unconsciously. But by and large, we’re at play in the fields of the bored, making up friends and enemies as the scenes, the characters, and the props shift. A person is fortunate who recognizes a script when she sees it and even more fortunate if she can lay it down. But whoa, then the improvisation is scary. Very tempting to pick up the script again and forget everything but one’s lines.
I never read the official profiles, or rarely, at least, and couldn’t care less about meeting people that way, which is part of the reason I never write them about myself. The other reason is that at my age it’s. . .nice. . to enter a room where nobody has any preconceptions about me except to suppose I am probably a left-leaning Democrat, or something close enough to look like it.
I like getting to know people in the cafe, like the earthy/fey/smart humor, the sympathy, the courtesy, the coffee. Sometimes I’m startled if one of them sounds different outside of the cafe, and then I watch for awhile to find the connective tissue between those two presentations.
I have no idea who people here think “I am,” if they even think about it at all. If anyone is ever curious, I can assure you that I would always answer a direct question, even if it’s to give an evasive answer. <smile>
Manufactured personalities are part of real life as well as virtual life.
Most of what we do, wear, say, belong to etc etc, is part of an everyday conscious/unconscious attempt to shift perceptions – in others as well as ourselves.
Sven, interesting diary. I hope that people, however, don’t feel any pressure to reveal personal facts about themselves.
I talk a lot about my life, mostly in comments, not in diaries — because that’s my diary style.
People who’ve read my comments over time — but who can read every comment here? Yikes! — would know that I have a grown-up daughter Darcy who I’m nuts about and proud of, a cat named Bear who’s a huge love and naughty, a homeless cat named Althea that came from the Wal-Mart parking lot, and that I feed a crippled raccoon that I’ve named Sen. Boxer because I admire her pluck despite her bad leg. What else … my mom is 90 years old and spunky, but often ill .. my brother is quite ill with Stage 4 metastatic melanoma … I have bad arthritis and no money. :And I smoke cigarettes, but not pot.
All of the above is on the record here somewhere.
a likely story, “susanhu.”
But I do believe you love cats and Deadwood.
Hangs head. Can’t believe I forgot “Deadwood”! ‘course the link is in my signature 🙂
Susan – it is the anecdotal evidence – ‘a cat named Bear’ eg – that for me adds a great deal of colour to what people comment on. I guess it is artificial, but even so – ‘feeding a crippled racoon’ is a hologram for a whole lot of social attitude!!!
I certainly don’t want to be identified, though a dedicated nut could probably track me down in Finland if they wanted.
I don’t think anyone else should identify themselves either.
Usually when I read the diaries and comments here I think to myself that I would like to meet that person in real life. Of course I do, because in this medium it is common to put forth only your best foot and keep hidden that which someone might find unsavory.
I don’t know what you all think of me (or if you do)and I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about it like I might in my real life. Truth is that in my real life I am terribly limited by my desire to please others and to not make enemies. I am also limited by something that appears to be shyness but is better described as being “standoffish”. I am not comfortable in crowds and yet I am really uncomfortable meeting someone one on one. It’s a delicate balance, as you can imagine. 🙂
I am most genuine in my writing….and most comfortable that way. I like the anonymity this provides, yet often long to make a personal connection. That is definitely a delicate balance.
I too take refuge sometimes in words. Words – without any other information – can be honed to give exactly the impression you require.
Information can be distinguished from disinformation only by the most subtle patterns. The ones that you can perceive but not describe are probably the best. Unless, of course, they have already been focus-grouped, in which case you are in just so much trouble!
The internet is a paranoid’s paradise, not least because several majors powers–including the US–are now conducting psy-ops against their own citizens. But also because, as the cartoon has it, no one can tell if you are really a dog. Ironically, in this environment, stating the truth simply becomes a viable strategy. You get one nesting, automatically, for free!
It would not be worth the effort
It may not be worth my effort, but you should be aware how it is done. Invent a personality for yourself. Imagine yourself as the personality, with the tastes, attitudes, preferences, style and beliefs of that personality. Then write! Voila!
Anyone can do this.
Does it matter?
Maybe. Soltzinitzin (sp; yeah, I know) writes about the old Soviet Union and the necessity of learning how to layer every conversation so that when the secret police make inquiries, there is an innocent meaning (innocent to their minds) readily available on the surface. This is the basic idea of nesting. No conversation is safe unless it has at least one nesting, and the time is coming when you will need more. Americans and Brits are going to have to learn how to do this (or end up in Guantanamo, or with five bullets in the head like that Brazillian guy) and I don’t think they have really understood this yet. The internet may be as good a place as any to start learning.
Like Kansas, bios don’t interest me: I don’t think I have read any of them.
And, I regret to say, I still have no idea what to put in mine . . .
I’ve always been amazed how peoples’ behaviour changes when they put on fancy dress.
There are bios on this site??? Where??
:^)
http://www.boomantribune.com/user/Sven%20Triloqvist
for instance :^)
I’ve never put anything in my bio..I don’t think my writing about myself would encapsulate me as well as all my posting here will do..at least that is my hope.
simply because some of who we are changes from day to day and role to role. Some of us have magic enough so that there are myriad roles we play. Others have had the same magic but it is in the past tense. Magic can be anything creative – children, work, arts, whatever.
For some reason the sharp folks, the ones who want to dot every i and cross every t are not as present on Booman, thank goodness. I like a bit of chaos and I will make mistakes and go on. The people on this board seem to be willing to accept comments at face value and not worry about making game points.
But we are hardwired to find patterns and structure even out of chaos
and we love connecting the dots!
I thought it was fascinating reading about how the universe manages, for the most part to stay its course. There is some little thing keeping planets and stars from flying all over the place even as we keep on moving on a course set millions of years ago. Some very important little thing.
I don’t often have time to write here but when I do it’s all real. Life is truly too absurd to waste time faking stories or personalities and there are plenty of other ways to hide. Let me tell you a quick story:
I was on a bike/barge trip through the Netherlands last fall and on one leg (fin?) of the trip were two women from my part of the world; in fact, I shared a common acquaintance with one. They were relatively friendly, a little older than me and from the academic world. Somewhere past the halfway point of the trip I realized from the way they would look at each other when I was telling some story that they thought I was making things up. Almost rolling their eyes. There was nothing I could do to convince them that it’s all been real AND weird.
So when I tell you that I was almost attacked by a llama at work Friday it’s the truth and when I say I was out riding bikes last night with young anarchists and we went to someone’s house for homemade berry pie and ginger ale/wine spritzers at midnight, it’s also true. It’s all too strange and normal not to be.
Write me if you want more assurance.
As long as it wasn’t the Dalai Llama, who, as I understand, is the epitome of non-violence 😉
I would definitely have believed the bit about the llama if you had also said you worked with Londonbear. (Check his e-mail address.)
In the process I develop a sense about different posters, and I think I see some personality revealed sometimes. I responded to one of the “introduce yourself” diaries here and enjoyed reading some others.
But there is so much going on right now, I’d rather spend my time reading widely. I’m so tickled that bushco is, uh, “disassembling,” I’m enjoying every minute of it.
I’m pretty busy, so it took me a couple of days to read a wonderful diary you wrote about systems. Despite my keen interest in the fall of bushco, I do enjoy abstractions. Those you put forward brought forth thoughtful comments. There are a lot of brilliant people here, and I enjoy that.
As far as trusting what people say, I’m usually skeptical unless I’ve read it somewhere else or there’s a link. Unusual for an INFP, I think, but I’ve been around good science with appropriate references.
Thank you for another thoughtful, interesting diary. The comments show equal thoughtfulness.
I guess I owe you two days!
It is a great reward when people appreciate a diary – thanks…
work with conservatives.
You know, when all you have is the printed word, it would seem impossible to communicate nuance of personality, but nuance is there if you are willing and able to perceive it. I love it here on BooTrib because of the atmosphere of comraderie… and the lack of flame wars. Most of us agree to disagree which is the same as saying there exists a respect for each other that could easily be lacking in this type of medium. I enjoy learning little tidbits about people here. Cabin girl lives in an older log home, Roseewriter is small but fiesty and can drive a huge bulldozer type machine, and Ask has worked on some gargantuan oil platforms. Tiny as those details are, it makes me feel just a tad more understanding when I read their diaries or comments.
OK, as for me, I’m a retired teacher in my 50’s, was a raging hippie in the early 70’s, and love animals more than some people I’ve met. I could never truely trust a person who hates animals. I distrust those who lack empathy for their fellow creatures, human or otherwise. …and I hate confrontation, you won’t see me involved in flame wars. I truely appreciate this diary, Sven… it’s part of what makes BooTrib so special. I respect you folks… I trust you folks. I’m glad to be a part of this amazing community.
I salute you!
Perceptions are funny. Of all the people on here, I feel I “know” Susanhu the best… probably because I read most of her stuff… and even if she doesn’t write of herself I assume she pretty consistently writes from herself. So one gets a sense of the person from the stories chosen. And comments, of course.
I like personal interactions and bios and such… they are fun to read, but I’m afraid that once I read them I tend to forget which one belongs to which person, and so they are useless for me in determining who is who… I figure that will come along as time goes by. I’ve never been especially anonymous online, but nor do I tend to give out many personal details, mostly because I can’t imagine anyone would be interested. When I do tend to write stuff, it’s mostly a bunch of introspective (but obscure 😉 blah blah, so am not sure what one takes away from that.
I tend to accept people at face value. Or at font value, I guess. Sometimes who people are in a venue such as this only slightly resembles who they are otherwise, but it is a better reflection of who they are really. Someone living in some small “red state” town may not have the freedom of expression that they do on here… so meeting them face to face, you might never know that they are a lion fighting for equal rights, or human rights or against political corruption and so on.
must remember that one = steal it!
or then again how about ‘Typeface value’ ?
Sorry, I don’t seem to be able to give you all 4’s – been playing with my user settings. (back to the drawing board). You have all written great stuff.
I am also very happy to have heard from those with whom I don’t normally interact. It’s clear generally that there are a lot of people reading diaries and comments, even if not commenting themselves much. That is as it should be. BT is all things – a newspaper, an activist group, a community, a billboard, and so on. People use it how it suits them.
What is it you want to know about me? Just ask I might reply.
I think Neal Stephenson described it best — this gleaning of a personality just from text on a page — in “Snow Crash.” Juanita, a computer programmer who focused solely on making realistic faces for immersive-reality avatars, explains to another programmer why realistic facial expressions are important: Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance.
That said, I also don’t say much about myself because 1) it’s not sanguine for my professional life to do so and 2) I’m not sure that having the information will actually tell you much about me. As another poster mentioned, interfacial personality is as much an interactive element as a state element. I have a core personality, sure, but I apply it differently under changing circumstances.
I mean, is it going to help y’all understand me, personally, if you knew that I continually score in the 90th percentile on every single Nerd or Geek quiz (even the really thorough ones) posted online? Hmm. Perhaps it may. Ha.
“I mean, is it going to help y’all understand me, personally, if you knew that I continually score in the 90th percentile on every single Nerd or Geek quiz…”
I now understand that I will pay extra attention whenever you express an opinion on nerdy or geeky topics.
Just wait until I get all fired up about Role-Playing Games, SF books and RenFaire! 😉
ARG’s? You’re not a complete nerd/geek if you haven’t played at least one of those.
ha ha ha!! Actually, we’re (that would be another editor at the mag and I) planning on trying some out soon. I’ve been lax of late on my nerdism (that’s what happens when you get engaged to someone who’s not quite as nerdy as yourself — but that’s OK, he’s very cool and geeky in his own “I love Linux” way).
Which ones are you down with?
If you are thinking about becoming involved in an ARG, you should start by reading “This Is Not A Game” by Dave Szulborski, the all-time King of Grassroots Puppetmasters.
http://www.immersivegaming.com/about.html
It’s been a couple of years since I was involved but I’ve been on both sides of “the curtain” in Dave’s games and they are extremely addictive, entertaining and down-right educational. My last immersion, wherein I was a Puppetmaster, was so exhilarating it burned me out on future involvement. My old heart just can’t take that much excitement.
Next, go check out this Unfiction forum
http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=140
and watch for the beginning of the next hot game. By all means, create an on-line gaming persona for yourself, log on and join in the fun. But, be prepared; this site is brutal to newbies and does not suffer fools. I know it is possible to play these games in isolation but being in a Smart Mob trying to defeat the manipulations of the Puppetmasters is more than half the fun.
Interesting. To what do we owe this latest pleasure?
It’s funny you should present such a diary. I say this because I’ve sometimes wondered if you are a composite fictional character. (If so, you’ve done a superb job in developing your story line, and I hope your research is going well. . . ;^).
In reference to bios. . .what I’ve found of most interest relates to the unique styles and the widely diverse information that members choose to share. Some have shared highly personal details, while others have shared philosophies. I think I learned more about each individual from the types of things they share versus the details of what they shared.
On the other hand, awhile back I was somewhat perplexed by a series of comments, so I looked for the member’s bio to seek a better understanding of their perspective. And. . .while I don’t necessarily seek personal information about someone, I truly enjoy the small comments – or full blown diaries – about personal challenges and experiences. Through outlets such as that, we become more than two dimensional beings (whether factual or fictional)
We would be very boring if we were not.
In the normal day we all have to be, perhaps, spouses, parents, commuters, workers, colleagues, socialites, decision makers, neighours, bloggers etc etc. Each situation may need a different or modified behaviour as a subset of our ‘overall’ personality.
Negotiating thru these attitude changes is really what life is all about 😉
In my case, I am involved in so many different things that my days rarely repeat themselves. For that I am grateful. But it probably means I have to deal with a lot more layers than many.
To a certain extent we are all fictional – but a discussion of THAT would take up rather a lot of space and philosophy
Well. . .yes. . .
The operative word in my post was intended to be “fictional” rather than “composite”. But I suppose each reader is entitled to select their own operative word from any given post. . .
That’s what I find strange about blog land. When I read some people’s diaries I often can feel close to that person as I share many of their views or concerns, but sometimes it turns out in conversation that the person doesn’t like me at all. Other times I’ll get along great with someone with totally different views.
I think an IRC channel would be a great way of socializing. Having all our comments “on the record” may inhibit some people from being completely free. I mentioned this a few days ago, but not sure if we resolved how we are to start it up (if people are interested in it).
In terms of my personality, I share a few things, there is a lot I don’t and often times its humorous to me how people presume certain things about me, not much here though, people are great here.
Comments in IRC channels are not off the record. They remain on the host’s server and can be accessed. Also, anyone “in the room” can archive a log of any given discussion for future use. In most IRC channels, your IP address is prominantly available to the host so you actually have less privacy than you do on a blog like this one. This is the way many sexual predators and hackers are caught, you know; it’s not their blogs, it’s their chat room participation that leds authorities to their doorsteps.
Good points. I was aware of the ip address, if we did start one, we could point out a bunch of pros and cons.
Let’s find out more and get it working!
I have been thinking about this all day, beginning with a look in the dictionary.
Personality: The totality of qualities and traits, as of character or behavior, that are peculiar to a specific person
“Persona” came to mind. The dictionary definition is: The role that one assumes or displays in public or society; one’s public image or personality, as distinguished from the inner self.
I believe the “qualities and traits” that make up our personality have many shadings which we can choose to emphasize or mute. I do not know how far one can go in manufacturing a personality. A chameleon can change colors, but it cannot become a dog.
I also believe that when our “persona” gets too far from our “inner self” we get lost. And we sicken.
This internet medium and this site connects us with a wide range of people. Yet we all have some things in common. We have access to a computer and the internet. We have access to electricity. We can read and write, so more than likely we have had some schooling. And we have the time and interest in doing this.
For dialogue to take place there are agreed upon “rules of engagement,” e.g., “Don’t be a prick.” (This further narrows the group we are in.) We can question a person’s intent. And we can ask for clarification when we don’t understand.
Having a sense of who someone is increases or decreases the willingness to engage and helps in choosing how to respond. Personal references and examples can be valuable in finding common ground.
Thank you for a most interesting diary Sven Triloqvist.
Details are easy to fake. Harder: Persistence in an uncertain battle. Hardest: Declining an easy, separate peace.
On the noble side of human nature, at our best we are ventriloquists all, projecting our public personalities into the better selves we become. Characters traversing Shakespearean arcs. Sometimes we merely stumble in bewilderment at how we could be so wrong, or hesitate to think the world wrong, when it is easier to accuse ourselves of hubris, or we try out fads just for the sake of having something fresh in common with everyone else. There is no accurate snapshot of character.
On the darker side, the Assassins. Agents dispatched by a foreign cause, instructed to fit in, to adopt the enemy culture, to advance to important position, and to wait for a call. The assassin occupies the easiest moral universe, never hindered by any mixed emotions about the world where he fakes his legitimacy. This comfort with the status quo of an enemy country frees up enormous energy for advancing to high ranks of power.
Trusting in little touches is what makes the Republicans able to purchase sovereignty for trinkets. It is better to trust those whom one has followed through a crisis, and measured their commitment to truth and justice by the price they were willing to pay for it.
Details? They matter most to advertisers. Details fit into a portfolio with the orders handed off at an airport.
I am not talking about details that are relevant to targetted advertising, purchase patterns or positioning – I am talking about the anecdotal evidence about peoples’ lives that is not quantifiable, but serves to elucidate or, better still, flesh out the slim semiotic pickings of someone’s nick and sig.
Whether we want to or not, we make immediate and often lasting assumptions about people on the slightest of information about them – their clothes for instance, or a book they are reading.
So I am only raising the question of whether ‘poetic’ detail helps us to understand, interact with, trust better, each other. Or not. But I think there are some very interesting replies above which have made me think.