I like Booman very much but obviously I don’t like every diary. Is it possible to add an “unrecommend” button. Like, no only do I not recommend this I recommend that no one else read it?
So, as irony goes, if you really don’t think this diary should exist you would want an “unrecommend” button. Because people respond to diaries that are not trolls but are sometimes to me completely incoherent or so random or just something that I would read and then wish I had not – not out of offense but because my time was wasted. Yet I am not going to rate some comment down just because I felt my time was woefully wasted reading a dairy. But I would like a way to say, “Now, really, I know three people have loved this but I thought it was a waste.” without having to call something a troll.
A more effective opinion system has negative as well as positive ratings. I would like a way to send a rating that is just my negative opinion without being like a troll rating.
Thanks for considering this.
redwagon
Why would you feel the need to deride the effort of someone who put forth the effort to actually post a diary.
There have been diaries that I have read that I felt, well I am sure there was a point there somewhere, but I seemed to have missed it along the way.
I did not feel the need to tell them that they just wasted my time. I don’t need to try and put someone down to help my own ego achieve a measure of boosting because someone wrote something that I found to be less than enthralling.
Surely you could find it within yourself to just walk away and go, hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm now that is someone I may have to rethink about if I want to continue reading their diaries.
Just my opinion and we all know about opinions.
I don’t want to “deride” people who put forward diaries. I would just like a little more guidance and what to read. There are those that a few people love, and probably more people read but didn’t like.
If I wanted to deride people I would downrate comments of people who love diaries I don’t like. I explicitly am not interested in abuse, but in filtering. There is a difference.
But you are wanting others to filter for you. Get a grip. What may not be “worthy” of a read to me may be of vital importance to you. We all have our own thought process, likes and dislikes. Also the rating system isn’t there to agree or diagree necessarily. IMHO.
There is also the filtering of the front pagers. Susan and BooMan do an excellent job of taking the very best or most pertinent diaries and putting them on the frontpage.
understanding of wanting the ability to unrecommend a diary. To me it appears to be a divisive tool and could be used for derision.
If you took this personally I do apologize, as I did not mean for it to point at you as being derisive. I should select my language a little more carefully in the future.
Anyway, my point is I have found little reason to have what you have suggested.
Thanks for participating here.
.
Da¥N … where is my button when I need it?
~~~
Probably your thoughtful comment would be sufficient without adding such a feature. Recognize that one does not even see the “recommends” without clicking on the “who recommended this” tab. My own diaries, upon which I spend some effort and time, often fade away with little notice, either by comment or recommendations. I’m not sure that I would like to see an unrecommend option added. It’s hard enough to marshall the confidence to post diaries as it is.
So what you would like us to do is waste our time for you? I am not trying to be a smartass. What I do is skim read, then make up my OWN mind if it is worth reading through a second time and/or a recommend.
I believe I am explicit in not requesting that you waste your time.
I want you not to waste time because you can see
-highly recommended diaries
-hotly contested diaries
and you might like one or the other. While I like the first category, you want to see what is the subject of much disagreement. I would ignore it.
btw, I intended no disrespect to any diaries on which I have commented. If I comment, I think it is interesting even if I am in disagreement.
You are not making sense: you want to negatively recommend, yet you feel that even diaries you disagree with are interesting.
What, then, is your basis for a negative recommend? That the piece bores you? That seems pointless.
This idea is definitely not in keeping with the general atmosphere of this blog. If you don’t like a diary or don’t care one way or the other, say nothing and move on. If you like it, give it a four and maybe recommend it, too. This is the BooTrib way, imho.
re:
If you leave an abrupt dissenting comment in someone’s diary, the least you could do would be reply to the diarist’s comment back to you. This site is special because most of us actually engage in CIVIL discourse. Civil discourse happens between two or more people with differing or similar opinions when they respect each other enough not to do a hit-and-run.
Sometimes I wonder if you are a troll….
Once in a concert parking lot a fundie came out with a big sign about what Jesus is. Basically, GOD TOLD ME TO HATE YOU. One hipster yelled at him, “I have love in my heart, asshole.” Do you see why your post makes me think of this?
I someone who has an understanding of the design of reputation systems, and also collaborative filtering. These are useful search terms if you want to understand my motivation.
On the other hand, if you are interested in calling names on the basis of your moral superiority and compassionate nature I can only assume you are attempting to be entertaining.
Where did the commenter call you names?
What sign of “moral superiority” do you see that commenter flaunting?
Take a deep breath: no one here is attacking you. At most, people are trying to engage you.
I’m simply pointing out that this “reputation system” known as BoomanTribune works fine for everyone who has commented so far, including me. It also seems to me that most of us are here because we like the positive, supportive atmosphere.
And no, I’m not “calling names.” I’m calling you out specifically for what I see as your past unsportsmanlike conduct. As you can see, I am still here trying to have some civil discourse with you. I do feel that civil discourse is superior to hit-and-run — sorry if that offends you, but its just how I feel about it.
“I do feel that civil discourse is superior to hit-and-run — sorry if that offends you, but its just how I feel about it.”
What offends me? Well offends is too strong a word. Let’s go with annoy.
I was annoyed by being called a troll. Calling me a troll was not civil discourse.
I was also annoyed by the part where my suggestion for a three value, as opposed to a two value, reputation system was called “stirring up dissent”.
Of course collaborative filtering can function with almost only positive feedback — look at Amazon’s “People who Liked X…”. That just requires much larger numbers to be really effective. If we have low number of diaries relative to the high numbers of recommends then a little more information might be useful.
Blueneck didn’t call you a troll, but merely indicating wondering about it. And you have certainly been as insulting yourself (not here, necessarily, but in your comments elsewhere).
One of the points about civil discourse that you don’t seem to get is that it is important to read what the other is saying in an attempt to understand, not simply so you can rebut them. Civil discourse is based on the strange idea that we can actually learn from each other.
Instead of being so immediately dismissive of what others write, how about trying to imagine things from their point of view. Then write, still disagreeing, but in such a way that they can understand what you are trying to say.
In other words, stir up dissent somewhere else, please. Here, stir up real discussion instead.
I think some of the hard language in this discussion may have been headed off at the pass if you would have expounded on some of these points in your original diary. I know you’re not a troll from having read your posts, but I admit I wasn’t quite sure on your rationale for wanting an unrec button other than I don’t want to waste my time before I read this comment that you’ve written. And that is a pretty insensitive reason, in and of itself.
I did not say “You are a troll”. As a matter of fact, I would never say that, I would just use my trusted user status to troll-rate you into oblivion. I did not do that. I have never done that, and probably, hopefully, I never will – to anyone.
I have also never wondered “out loud” if someone here was a troll, but it seems to me that you do not understand a key difference between this blog and all the others. The ratings etiquette here is an integral part of what makes this such a great place. To introduce any kind of commonly used negative rating system is antithetical to what this site is about, imho.
Thus, I perceive your suggestion as an attack. I own that perception and I own up to it. I would fight for this last best positive blog-site until I got troll-rated into oblivion myself. Then I would weep.
“Sometimes I wonder if you are a troll…. “
by blueneck
“I have also never wondered “out loud” if someone here was a troll….”
by blueneck
“I would never say that, I would just use my trusted user status to troll-rate you into oblivion.”
by blueneck
Of course, this is a threat. I acknowledge it as one, while being unable to understand why this falls under your definition of civil discourse. Why is advocating for three levels instead of two something that will cause you to threaten me and weep? Why is that not civil? You hate my idea – OK. Got that. Lived. Will post again.
Look, the borg take it too far but advocating for a more efficient collaborative filtering system is not to advocate for pure evil. Ok, so I am part economist. I admit it….. but you know that from the books I recommend already. Efficiency is not always bad.
I will grant you the last word, because while discourse is happening I do not find it fruitful.
redwagon
You will admit, I hope, that you are being a tad bit unfair to Blueneck, taking words out of context (hmmm… isn’t that something the Right likes to do and we should stay away from?).
Blueneck makes it quite clear you are not being threatened.
Also, you are changing the terms of your debate, stating now that all you are looking for is a “more efficient collaborative filtering system.” That’s not quite what your diary is saying. Recommending “that no one else read it” is not a move towards efficiency in many eyes, but is clearly punitive. That’s what’s bothering people.
Finally, when you deign to grant the last word to someone else, you make yourself sound rather arrogant, especially when you follow by saying that you are not finding the discourse, which you started, fruitful.
Thanks for hanging in here with me Aaron. I still don’t think redwagon gets it. I tried, and you did, too.
Redwagon won’t talk directly to me (or hasn’t, recently). I suspect Redwagon was, by speaking directly to you, actually trying to speak to us both.
But you are right: Redwagon doesn’t get it.
You are paranoid, and you read things into what I say without responding to my real attempt at explanation. So no discourse is possible. You refuse to respond to the meat of my commentary. You still haven’t responded to any of the comments others have also made in this thread about your past commenting tactics. This is clearly a pattern.
If you want to play the victim here, go ahead, I can’t stop you. I tried, but you read the worst possible motives into everything I said.
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about this. I think the site is at a place where people write diaries after a thoughtful process; I don’t get the sense that some post a diary just for the hell of it or to be the first to give BREAKING news.
We are lucky, I think, that everyone here respects other people’s writing and research abilities or deficiencies. If you don’t care for a diary, whether it’s recommended or not, just check out the Recent Diaries list, there aren’t that many flying through here like other comparable sites; which I think is a good thing.
Just my 3.5 cents
Hmmmmmmmmm…now where did Booman put that unrecommend button? LOL
the rules on diaries are the same here as at Daily Kos. Two diaries allowed in any 24 hour period. No contentless diaries like just a link. Try not to diary on a breaking news item that has already been diaried unless you have new material or a much different take.
You know, obvious rules.
But we also have other rules. And one of them is to respect other people as people, and keep the passion for the exchange of ideas. Not everyone is as smart, well-informed, or as good of a writer as you are. They should be respected and encouraged, not down-rated or derided.
For that reason, I don’t want to have a negative voting mechanism for diaries. It takes courage to write a diary, and I don’t want people to vote
‘no’ to someone’s efforts and discourage them from participating.
Thank you for your response. I was honestly trying to suggest an additional mechanism for improving the collaborative filtering here. There is such a spread on the recommended diaries and while the lack of trolls here is great, the overall positive rating system is hard for me to evaluate at times. But the responses make clear that you know your readership, and indeed people would be hurt, and take disinterest personally.
I will say, as my last note, that boran2 has really cool diaries are exactly the kind of thing I look for here, and I have been a bit frustrated at my search time. (Particularly check his/her diaries on global warming.)
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, and the grace of your reply.
-redwagon
If you want a filtering system, here is some advice (some of it is obvious, don’t be insulted).
1)If a diary is on the recommended list that is a good indication that people here value it for some reason.
2)If a diary has been around for a long time but has no comments, you can use that as an indication that people are not that interested in it. However, this is not foolproof by any means. We’ve had recommended diaries with zero comments.
3)Get to know the diarists. Some of them you will always be eager to read
4)Read the title: is it about a topic that interests you?
More than this:
1)if you notice a diary by a new diarist, try to give them some encouragement (if possible) by making a comment.
2)encourage newcomers to visist the Froggy Bottom Cafe/Lounge and get to know people.
3)if you have a strong disagreement with a diary or a comment, (but the author is not a troll) marshall your best arguments and make your case, and do it with respect.
I wish I could read and comment on everything on the site, but I can’t. But I don’t feel like the filtering system is failing me. I get by just fine by using the above guidelines.
Maybe the problem is that you know what you are looking for and that, as you say, makes you “a bit frustrated at my search time.”
One of the things I like best about BoomanTribune (though, I admit, I don’t take as much advantage of it as I should) is that I often run across things that surprise me–that I wasn’t looking for, but (maybe) should have been.
Like you, there are particular diarists whose work I always check; unlike you, however, I don’t go to them because they are “cool,” but because they may teach me something. I go to them because they may lead me in directions I hadn’t even considered–even directions distinctly “uncool.” That they rarely do isn’t important: it does happen–and will, as long as I keep myself open to the possibility.
If I wanted to keep my use of BoomanTribune narrow to my own prior interests and beliefs, I could simply go only to those diarists whom I find sympatico–checking out others only when they’ve made comments I like. Maybe I would even give a glance at the Front Page. That would be fine, too.
In neither case would a Booman “unrecommend” help.
Ultimately, I think what’s bothering people about your suggestion is that it moves the burden of decision from each of us as individual commentators and readers to the previous ones. We want to make our own discoveries–for good or bad–and not have someone trample over grass that we might find green.
I wouldn’t like to see something like this. For thing, it seems fairly pointless… if you don’t like a diary, you should be able to figure that out after the first few sentences and then move on. If you feel an overwhelming need to express your dissatisfaction with the diary, you can leave a comment to that effect, I imagine.
I am not sure where the troll part comes in. Why would you have to call anyone anything at all in order to say “Now, really, I know three people have loved this but I thought it was a waste.”?
Anyway, I pretty much think people put thought into their diaries (even some of the one line ones are brilliant) and I would not be in favor of any sort of downrating diaries type button, even if the diaries themselves are not to my taste.
“Don’t be a prick.”
Read what you will, comment however you see fit, form/hold whatever opinion turns your crank…but follow the rule…I already have a mother, thank you.
G’day.
(jk) 🙂
I fundamentally disagree with this notion. That said, I would unrecommend this diary, if I could. It’s just mean.
I am wondering if we could all look at this diary as an ‘exploratory question’ Red Wagon asked, we have given him our answers, all of them good answers and now lets go on from here, with no hard feelings..
After all that is also part of what we are!!!
Hugs to all, all around!!!!!
Now off to the jazz fest!!!!
Gee I wonder if I could have used some more explanation points.!!!!!Yes!!!!!
This idea to me seems a pointless waste of time and purposely negative to ‘want’ to single out a diary for an ‘unrecommend’. As others have said if you don’t like it, simply respond with appropriate comments and leave it at that or ignore it and move on. People will engage you or not based on their reaction to your comment.
Just like a boycott, the first thing people probably would do would go immediately to the ‘unrecommended’ to see what could be so awful, boring or whatever thus in turn making it more widely read and defeating the purpose of your idea.
I can also see how this could lead to some bad consequences with people taking sides etc ….again I just don’t see the point of promoting a negative.
There are so many incredibly good diarists here that I don’t imagine you have come across more than a few you may have found boring …in other words you’ve only lost a few minutes of your day which I would say is no big deal.
(besides the posters themselves), is the welcoming structure BooMan has set up. I like it that people write diaries here, who may be too scared to at other sites. I like that posters will give them comments, to encourage them. (I remember the first time SusanHu commented in one of mine, lemmetellya! ::swoon::) I love that there is no negativity here – no need to down-rate or troll-rate. I like that a 4 is a 4 is a 4. No 3s, no 2s. Just 4s. This site really is nurturing, and dialogue is fundamental. It is truly different from other ‘comment rating’ / scoop type sites.
A pretty good way to get noticed, when you are feeling you and or your writing of diaries is not getting the notice you want. . .write something controversial. . .such as a diary that suggests people aren’t smart enough to decide which diaries to read on their own and need someone to wield the power of the “unrecommend Button” to show them what they should ignore.
Not saying this is true of Mr redwagon, but people needing ego build ups would very likely use this type of strategy. Those type of controversial topic diaries can feel like a “PLEASE, please, please, notice me” ploy from someone not feeling they are appreciated for their obvious brilliance and abilities.
Again, I am not saying this is true of Mr redwagon, I am just musing through some thoughts on the idea that this happens a lot on some sites where people think their good work is ignored while someone elses less good work is recommended and commented on far more than his or hers. At the site across the street, and others, the type of thing I am musing about often results in a GBCW diary. . . (goodbye cruel world). . .much to the amusement of the unimpressed.
But here, apparently well intended comments by redwagon have been greeted with consideration and explanations as to why it is not felt to be appropriate or necessary. A lengthy discussion has insued. Mr redwagon apparently disagrees with how most of us like this site to operate. Okay. It all works for me.
So Now I have further caused you all to waste more time by reading through this lengthy and not very productive musing of mine.
I think we can move on from here, still friends and still able to decide what we will or will not read and recommend on the basis of our personal choices.
The FBC is jumpin tonight. . .head on over for some good times. . .
If you don’t like a diary, don’t recommend it; there’s no need to “unrecommend”. “Unrecommend” is for a diary that you’ve recommended, but that’s outlived its time, like Christmas cookies past New Year’s. 🙂 But what you find boring and pointless, others might find informative.
If the diarist has seriously broken BooMan’s First Rule (Don’t Be A Prick), a note to Boo or Susan alerting them to the situation might be advisable; they can review the diary and see if any action needs to be taken.
I might be interested to see examples of diaries that you would “unrecommend”, telling the person who wrote it that just skimming it was a waste of your precious time…