I went to a Giants game and missed the brouhaha…oi vey! (and yes, the Giants lost)
Forgive me booman, but I’m NOT going to crosspost this anywhere else for obvious reasons…dKos needs no Meta from me tonight, lol.
But I would like to share a couple thoughts / questions.
What defines the Booman community?
I have some ideas about that, and, speaking for myself, I am glad this website exists, and that this community exists in the evolving form it does….and that has nothing to do with dKos, just intrinsically…BMT as BMT. (susanhu first of all, internationalism, human rights, jerome, booman, environmentalism, and, I think…a freedom to talk about feminism, gay rights and environmentalism in community…ie. collaboratively..specifically, with women’s and gay voices, and voices of color included as an intrinsic start point ie. without having to entertain challenges to those stand points every time we have a discussion.)
I would guess, irrespective of one’s own answer(s) to the above question, one simple answer is Booman himself. The choices he’s made in building this website, how that’s affected community. And what drove him to do this in the first place….making something that at first looked like dkos with a different color scheme into something distinct.
When he realized that he needed to innovate revenue, the community responded. That’s healthy, and a sign that people cared. And while I would warn him with the same warnings I’ve given Markos, that the line between blog “owner” and “community facilitator” is very fine…I get the impression that when folks give Booman feedback…he listens. And that he’s not asking any of us to let him speak for us, or assuming that he can. In fact, just the opposite.
The most important question in my mind is what drives us, the readers, diarists and comment makers…to work here, and share our opinions here, and build community here. The answer to that question certainly is something that can stand on its own, and it should, and it is in the process of being ever more honed as time passes and community builds.
In my view, the proper response to this dustup, and that’s what it is…is to make this site a destination in and of itself…for those intrinsic qualities you find essential here, and to innovate around the idea that BMT has something distinct to offer…to nurture that.
As a solo blogger now, I KNOW how hard so many writers work and toil in obscurity….I’ve tried to make my blog a network that points to some of these folks..someplace where you can always find a fresh voice….someplace decentered…
I would argue, that working on a new model of “decentering”..an independent definition of what makes BMT distinct and unique would serve to make the various points about dKos I’ve read today far more eloquently than simply building a culture of strict and ritualistic clannish opposition.
Perhaps, in defining itself simply for what it is…BMT will be free to become something new and, perhaps, win an even broader audience?
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Freedom of Expression
Encouragement and appreciation – develop one’s talent.
Thanks for great diary contribution!
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Is there an echo in here?
Is there an echo in here?
Freedom of Expression
Encouragement and appreciation – develop one’s talent.
Thanks for great diary contribution!
Freedom of Expression
Encouragement and appreciation – develop one’s talent.
Thanks for great diary contribution!
Hello, KO!
As always, we appreciate your insight.
What I’ve found unique here is the desire to foster community while addressing the problems of the day. People here care about and respect one another (and the host and hostess) enough that we rarely if ever flame one another. If an opinion is seen as grossly in error or rude, it typically is ignored until it scrolls down the diary list and disappears, or maybe it attracts only one or two comments along the lines of “I really don’t think you’ve thought this all the way through, dear.”
The community is self-policing in that regard, so there is very rarely any need for Boo or Susan to step in and take action.
Boo and Susan are very much aware of their role in facilitating discussion, and when they express their opinion, it is typically expressed in an open-ended way that invites others to express their opinions as well.
This community also takes the longer, broader view – we’re more interested in the “Why” of winning than the “How.” In the issues than the specific candidates. Candidates come, candidates go – hell, parties may come and go, to speak some heresy – but the causes and principles one believes in are the things around which people organize their lives and their political activities. There is a recognition and a celebration of that here.
This site celebrates diversity of all types, which, in the long run, makes it not only a stronger “mental ecosystem” but a deeper one as well – where one can find passionate but rational discussion on any range of topics. And then there’s Bood Abides, and even me sometimes – we don’t take ourselves too seriously here, which helps prevent anyone from getting self-righteous.
Which may circle back around to the key trait that describes the community here – when someone posts something here, whether it’s a serious discussion of energy policy by Jerome or Catnip taking the time to give us the play-by-play of some hearings or the postings of “Political Animals” – it’s never in a sense of self-aggrandizement, “aren’t I clever in my comments.” The folks here are adults, not teenagers, in that regard. And they take seriously the adult task of living together in community and working for a better future – and enjoying life along the way.
When I take brief forays to other sites these days, I invariably come back here and say to myself, “Why did I even bother?”
And spellcheck is a gift from the gods! ;-D
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It’s the challenge of course, meet a different group of people, tiptoe in … whoa, it’s cold.
But you are absolutely right, it’s pretty much BooMan’s Place here, and most likely a matter of scale.
Size is my worry in any organization – education, schools, church community, it’s the participation of all individuals which determines its strength. Followers normally do not add to creative thinking, criticism and advancement. When ideas stall, the organization or group turns to conservatism. Followers often become thugs in history: brown-shirts and fascism, to protect their leader.
The greatest problems I experienced at dKos from March this year, were the newbies with their negative comments as soon as a new diary was launched. Readers who visit a diary where flames have started, usually move on. Flames destroy, although energy is never lost in nature, on a blog such discussion leads nowhere, but to self-destruction.
On a small site like BooMan’s, you have better communication, more patience and encouragement, because you get to know the other person participating in the community.
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I actually have found that I often don’t even bother with the comments over there, just read the diary instead because there is so much negatvity and trying to out-snark everybody else instead of talking about whatever issue the diary was focused on.
I’ve seen the same attacks happen over and over enough times, why spend my time reading it again? It would have been interesting to hear someone explain yesterday how the NDN is different from the DLC, given Rosenberg’s involvement. But apparently no one has an answer for that, other than “You’re a stupid idiot”. Too bad.
Yes, I wanted to know more about NDN too. I looked at their website but just saw bla, bal, bla. I wonder if those “comments” over there yesterday were a new low. Content and discussion completely smothered. It’s too bad because there are a lot of smart and thoughtful people there. The comments can be very enlightening.
I wonder if those “comments” over there yesterday were a new low.
Not even close in that particular contest.
is such an easily overlooked danger. Fascism is the commitment to deny that danger by denying the value of individuals.
I appreciate your question and suggestion KO.
As I read the comments on Boo’s diary over at kos last night, I had a reaction based on my own experience, but didn’t say anything because the diary was already gone by then.
I have said this before here, but I “lurked” over at kos for almost a year and never said a thing. Now, no one who knows me would ever accuse me of being shy! So when I came to booman and posted a diary in the first week and started commenting away, I had to reflect on why. It was not a pretty answer for me. I have to deal with the fact that for the first time in a long time, I had been silent. I worked very hard for years to find my “voice” and had vowed to never loose it again.
So now I have learned a lesson: there are forces that are still very alive in this culture that affect me by shutting down my voice. Thats primarily my responsibility to deal with. But yes Armondo, TONE is important if we want to hear from the silent voices in our community. And that is what I have found at BMT. And thanks to ALL of you for helping me learn that!
I never really “left” Dkos but chose to spend the majority of my time here right after Booman opened up because I was already looking for a place with a different temperament. I was increasingly dismayed by the threads and comments, the level of maturity. I too had a hard time finding my voice at Dkos for fear of being told basically you are stupid(my issue).
When I started commenting over here I was encouraged almost immediatly by Susan to write diaries. Who me? I thought. No way. That encouragement never stopped. I still don’t write many diaries but when I do it is because something truly disturbs me or moves me to write about it. The real truth though is I do not write to make sure I get on the recommended list or get 4s for comments. I write because I feel I have something that the community might benefit knowing about or write to try and help sooth my dismay or hurt or disappointment. That has never been discouraged here. People help each other here, not just in writing but in supporting each other in life too.
I am proud to be a part of a community that isn’t just about “me” but about “we”. Thank you KO for your thoughtful questions and I do so love your writings.
is that it’s a Democratic site, not a liberal site. And he has admitted as much. So at least he’s upfront.
But because of this, for example, Kerry “bashing” (i.e. pointing out weaknesses in his candidacy) is verbotten.
Also, far left libs like myself often feel left out.
Not everyone on a site has to be a tree-hugging, atheist, vegan, who is interested in gay rights (even though I’m not gay) and women’s rights (even though I’m not a woman)…just receptive to those opinions.
What has turned me off from KOS is that it’s a Democratic site, not a liberal site.
Well, he has admitted it a bit late for many people. I am someone who has posted there since pre-scoop days. The exact same people he is earning money bashing now are the people who were dedicated to helping him make his site successful. Kos used to post things like, ‘This is a site by a liberal and for liberals.’ I and a great many other people, many of whom have been banned by his crop of poorly socialized thugs, took him at his word then and put a great deal of effort into doing just that.
This same method worked quite well at the run-up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq when the only people standing with him were the ‘hippy-dippy’ types he’s now taken to openly disparaging on his FP.
This is classic DLC and NDN Trojan horse strategy. Present the appearance of sharing the same values and concerns of the dem base while creating your career and then use these same people and values to gain acceptability amongst their enemies.
Because the truth of the matter is that centrist blogs, like centrist policies and priorities and politicians don’t inspire anyone and if one looks too closely they are pretty disgusting.
I don’t know if this was a planned strategy but I do know that it is what has happened and I know the results of it.
This is what is so digusting about Rosenbergs interview in Newsweek… he says just enough to be construed to give hime street cred with newbie bloggers but in fact he is spewing the same DLC bullshit he has been spewing for tens years. This farce and conciet is dispicable…
FUCKING GAG ME…
Then he had to tiptoe around the fact that he is one of the biggest Beltway money-grubbing corporate lobbist hack…
Booman and Susan exude respect for others with differing viewpoints. That sensitivity, that appreciation of diversity is an attractive quality. I have the utmost respect for both of them.
I beleive the blogs, and the evolution of them are what led to this one. Another segment of the people coming full circle.
Awarness is the crucial factor for change, this is the vehicle for that fruition.
Peace is what we all want, regaurdless of how we go about it, it is the bottom line, and the deciding factor for mankinds survival.
Hey K/O
My analogy…
DKos is an abusive relationship. Some people keep going back because they think he’s changed, when he never will. When they find out he hasn’t changed they get upset. Others say screw that I’m out of here and never look back.
BT is in some ways a shelter from the abuser, which provides the abused to learn skills and express themselves as never before. It helps break the co-dependent relationship and lets the abused start a new life away from the abuser.
For me, tone is everything. I hardly ever read anything that Armando writes because his tone grates on my nerves. Boo and Susan and Metero Blades and you are the types of writing I grativate to. Interesting, thought provoking, open to new ideas and ways of thinking… Not bombast and bluster.
Yeah I still read and post at dKos, but mostly for the other really good diarists who are still there. Wish they’d come here.
The other thing about BT that is different from dKos is that we haven’t put Booman up on some sort of pedestal. As someone said about Markos yesterday, he’s “the great online hope of this party”. What?? We don’t treat Booman like that. He has our respect and admiration, but we don’t put silly expectations on him to be our lord and savior. To expect more from him or Markos is neither fair to them or to us as we will inevitably be disappointed when they cannot live up to our expectations.
Stop telling Booman he’s the great online hope of the Democratic Party.
LMAO
If you only knew him as well as I do….
You’d keep telling him that.
Here at BooTrib there is a sense of community that I never felt at dkos. I don’t know if it is the sheer size of dkos, but sometimes it seems as if the vast majority of users are young and snarky and are looking to either outsnark everyone else or pounce on any comment they don’t agree with. It makes it difficult to have real exchanges with real people… I got tired of searching for those threads with serious people who respect other opinions.
Word for word, I think our Booman is a much better writer than Kos and I truely enjoy his work. Plus, even though I don’t get involved in flames, I no longer feel as if I truely belong at dkos… if I ever did. I am progressive. Liberal. Treehugger. Aging Hippie. Kos doesn’t want or need diversity, he needs followers, and that I ‘aint.
Oh, I check over there once a day or so to see what’s percolating, but rarely post and almost never post my diaries there any more. I’m interested in what Kos has to say, interested in what he will do with his newfound ‘clout’, but I’m not a fan or a breathless admirer.
BooMan has an incredible talent for writing. He also has an incredible respect for people, and out of respect comes admiration. Here, it’s a mutual thing between Boo and the rest of us… at dkos it only seems to go one way… Kos has a little less respect for members.
Susan is my absolute hero. She snifs out the most incredible news and stories day after day. She’s an excellent reporter and is so open and compassionate and caring… she wears her heart on her sleeve and I admire the hell out of that. When Boo says we need more clicks… damn it, I click… and click. This is home.
Hi, I even got my ear pierced in 1962……
I enjoy it here also even if I don’t have much to say. I said my piece in Portland, Oregon at the Celebration for the Ancient Forest,the day before Clinton’s forest conference convened. That was the first time that I faced a crowd of 50,000 Neil Young fans, I haven’t been the same since.
But, my wife got his autograph.<g>
What interests me are in no particular order;
I love to hear different views, experiences, perspectives… to be challenged and inspired. Diversity is key and I hope Boo will always be a place for different voices with different views. Rock on.
Hello right back atcha! I’ve been a long time but fairly silent fan of your writing, but I love that you’ve started your own place AND that you continue to post other places (has anyone accused you of “trolling for new readers” yet? yeesh. some people…)
Anyway, BMT was born on my birthday, so I feel an intimate connection to this place… but I didn’t really make my tranistion until the pie wars…the whole thing was just too inane…
What really had me shaking my head yesterday, aside from the ‘great online hope’ thing was Addison’s snarky remarks about the “mojo fest” we were having in Parker’s diary…oh, yes, Addison, THAT’S what we’re all about!! This basic misunderstanding of the differences in how this community operates is one of the great dividers between here and “there”. People here are interested in making connections and taking ACTION, both individually and collectively — NOT because we are all about self-aggrandizement but because it is what we do.
I have met FTF and talked with on the phone, so many people in the 3 months I have been actively posting here, I have made friends, allies: CONNECTIONS, even with people I only know from online. This is what matters most to me and keeps me checking in. It is a community in all the ways that I define it.
Thanks for being here k/o — love your voice!
is not about DKos to me. I can <gasp> do without DKos.
It’s about the direction of the allegedly liberal party. Our country can’t do without one . . . or, maybe, more.
Hiya, Kid —
What everyone else has said, plus: I can comment on something, knowing it’s perhaps a bit half-baked and admitting same, and get a thoughtful reading and sometimes response.
I can read posts from others that are thoughtful, considered, complex, and singularly lacking in snark. Usually. š
I am reluctant to post, and certainly not to write diaries, in a place where the responses are likely to be nasty-minded and indicate non-reading or non-comprehension of the original comment.
Plus, there’s Spellcheck . . .
Some time back there was a diary that asked “What is Booman Trib about?” and that was my answer. Everybody wants to grow up and reach his potential. That usually takes a family and community that treats you with love and respect. Most of us share a curiosity about life and our world that intersects with an interest in politics.
We are not cultists looking for a Great Leader, I think of it as a community of friends sharing our lives. I feel at home here because I have a family that loves and accepts me despite my goofy ideas; and friends that share some of those ideas. It helps me understand what’s really important beyond my own ego. Boo has just taken us another step in our evolution from squabbling children and strutting adolescents. We are learning how to share power and to live together in peace.
Boo is my angel, he manages to teach me something with just a comment, as does everybody here. I can’t help feeling that I am being nurtured by a caring parent here, though I am probably way older than the Booman and many others here.
I love you Kid, so often I’ll stop by your place and see what’s on your mind. It’s always a pleasure to find you out here in the public square.
Spot on–it’s about love.
Hello KO,
What defines this site is the enencumbered give-and-take, a willingness to discus and consider. And this is done without having the diary police ready to pounce. There has been some fairly heated discussion but it hasn’t degenerated into the type of encounters seen elsewhere. It remains a usually friendly place, a forum for discussion or sometimes just a place to post a favorite photo.
Hello to you, too!
It’s funny, but what you have written about the desirability of the Trib developing its own clear voice is exactly what most of us here are also wishing the Democratic Party would do.
Take this paragraph of yours, for instance:
make this site a destination in and of itself…for those intrinsic qualities you find essential here, and to innovate around the idea that BMT has something distinct to offer…to nurture that.
Rewrite it to substitute “party” for “site” and “the Democratic Party” for “BMT” and you have our longing in a nutshell.
And therein lies the struggle. Here, we want a party, any party for god’s sake, to be a destination in and of itself, to stand for the things we hold dear and to do so visibly and strongly so that it cannot be mistaken for anything else. So that it cannot be mistaken for the Republican Party, for instance.
So we just have to do that, stand up for the principles we believe in. It’ll make a stronger political force and, by the by, a strong and stable political blog community.
Yesterday in Parker’s diary, Boo said something that “clicked” for me. He told Addison that the diff here is that while we may get pretty nasty at times about outsiders, we almost never attack each other. Man, is that ever the key element! He also said that if Kos, for instance, ever came over here and engaged in discussion, that’s what it would be: discussion. The attacks would drop away and conversation would begin. This is a crowd that feels “face to face,” and it’s a lot harder to look people in the eye and insult them. The rare times I’ve seen it happen here the perceived insulter got handed his hat.
I’ve gone on too long, but it’s your diary’s fault! š
I noticed something interesting yesterday when Addison was having his exchange with Booman, and that was the ratings he received. My impression at least is that the common practice around here is that folks generally rate something a 4 or don’t rate it if they disagree. Addison made some pretty personal comments about Booman in one of his comments, and he was rated something like a 1.5. I rated it a 2, and that’s the first time I’ve done that since I’ve been here.
Before I pushed the button, I caught myself and said, “Do you really want to do this?” and went back and read his comment again. I decided yes, I did, not because I disagreed with him (although I did), but because he was violating the tone of this place and attacking our host. He was being really rude.
Maybe I’ve been in the South too long (7 years now) and I’m starting to absorb the social mores of folks down here: You may lie, cheat, or steal, that may or may not be any of my business – but you better never, ever be rude. LOL
Maybe in the ratings scheme we could institute a “rude barbarian” number, keyed specifically for those who show gratuitous disrespect.
Obviously such a rating component would get a lot more action on numerous other blogs than it would here, but we could use it to register displeasure at such pathetic behavior.
I’m sure I could come up with something so you could use that rating.
Me too! But I’d exercise as much discretion as I could, probably winding up doing it on a wingnut site.
Knowing when and where to employ one’s “barbaric rudeness” appropriately; now that’s an art unto itself.
Boy Howdy, Kansas… you are so right!!! If we begin to see our party as a community, perspective changes. All the wonderful qualities of our BMT community that we have listed on this thread could be applied to building a better Democratic Party. Think of a large Democratic community, made up of a myriad of smaller communities, not chaotic, rather all dynamically interacting towards our all encompassing common goal:
Take back our country
After that, we can work it out.
Anybody who says “boy howdy” gets an automatic 4 from me. Goldarn it.
Good points all around. One thing I think that is troublesome, though, is that the internet is not conducive to de-centering. This is counter-intuitive since the internet is inherently un-centered and untameable, but most people are creatures of habit. It’s hard to get them to check out 5 new blogs every day (or whatever) and they like the sense of community provided at dKos, DU, here or elsewhere. But bringing new voices into peoples’ views is a great idea as hard as it is in practice.
Hey k/o, thanks for the diary. I agree with you 100% that the site should develop it’s own niche in the blogosphere; i’ve written a few navel-gazing diaries here, because I genuinely consider this my blogging home. I did a cursory search for some past diaries that have asked similar questions, the comment sections speak volumes to the community that is building here:
I’m drawn here because the site has a unique mix of news items, commentary, internationalism, and snark. There’s good stuff to be found at every click, even coffee and food.
Paz
will that finally get you into the cafe? š
is the end of the diary, as well as other referents within it, in the future tense.
The “dustup” (although that diminishes the central importance of our differences) is about the direction of the Dem party, of liberals — not about personality.
Many, many of us said that in Parker’s diary and are saying it in this one . . . while some still say it’s about the person or persons who want to take the party and the left in another direction.
Many, many of us are saying that this site IS (not will be) a destination in itself, that the owner here has shown no signs of making it about himself (so is in no need of warnings), etc.
So what I don’t understand is why some see Parker’s diary and most posts as a discussion of personality, not party/left direction. It’s. Just. Not.
Hey Kid O,
What everybody else said.
I noted the tone of mutual respect, communication, and support when I first came here. If I had to pick one thing that differentiates this website, it would be the rule Booman enunciated early on: “Don’t be a prick.”
(an aside — “a culture of strict and ritualistic clannish opposition”??? I don’t see that encouraged here. Maybe I’m misunderstanding.)
I also think there is something to the notion that what we’re seeing at Kos is part of the typical life-cycle of online communities. My experience with several professional discussion lists is that they work best when the moderator sets an explicit civil tone and is tolerant of differing views. But when the moderator allows or even takes part in flaming, the list is less productive. Good people withdraw, new people come in, and the cycle starts over again.
Daily Kos is so darn big. It’s like a hydra. It would be impossible to cut off all the hissing heads without having many more grow back. The trick is not to let the first one grow.
I agree with almos all that has been said in this diary and comments. The BMT is like a love-fest compared to dKos dysfunctional family dinner dynamic. This place is pleasant to be around, and that place, while it is great because of volume, is frankly, not a real safe place to discuss ideas for anyone with a sensitive soul.
I missed the controversy though. I think I read Booman’s diary over there. Can anyone give me a link to the controversial baloney? I’d just like to catch up.
Thanks Booman. Susanhu. KO for the diary. Community in general. This place is too cool.
Joe, we’re talking about the comments on Booman’s diary yesterday. Warning: it’s not pretty.
I don’t have time to read it right now, but I will in a bit. Appreciate it.
Hey Kid. It is always good to see and hear from you.
There is nothing left for me to say that has already been said here.
Everything that has been said is definately the honest to God’s truth about the matter in question.
Enough said and now can we get on to the bigger things of the day? We have so much to do yet and such little time to do it in.
I hopefully wish that we can leave the OTHER sight off the radar and get on with our daily business.
I love you and all the rest here. I R E S P E C T you and all the others. Why?, cuz you earned it IMHO!
I sure hope that you all feel the same way about me.
We are such a diverse community here. It simply amazes me, on a daily basis, that we do get along as well as we do…well, the reason I see in this, is we have a common goal…we share the same standards for the most part. We all strive to keep this in mind and to improve on a daily basis.
I will never get tired of saying “thank you” to booman and I sincerely mean this. He has allowed me my voice and that is important to me and more importantly, I learn so very much on this site…I learn more about ideas, ideals, views, facts, personality, anger, love, frustration, commonality….the list can go on forever, if need be; consequently, I just plain love it here. It takes us all to get this job done and to make this site the best we can make it. Boo is just the owner of this site, we inhabit it for the betterment of it.
Again, always good to see you here and read your words of wisdom….Hugs.
of the frenetic rough-and-tumble “downtown” atmosphere at DailyKos, I enjoy heading out to the Booman ‘burbs for a relaxing evening in a friendly pub where nearly everyone knows my name.
Okay bring up the “Cheers” theme music and fade to black.
Everything that everyone has said about the Trib. The respect, caring, and tolerance for each others views and quirks. It is very much about our desire to know and understand each other as best we can so that we are not just one more strange screen name whose comments we enjoy.
Those who find a home here truly care about the other members.
Those of you who have been around here for any length of time know the type of posts I generally put up. Very few of them, if any, have any overriding political commentary. I leave that to those of you who are so much better at it and more informed than I. I look to Susan and Boo and the members here to keep me informed. And I cannot praise Susan and Boo enough for their “on top of everything” abilities to bring us great reporting and great writing.
The respect and tolerance I have been shown here for the “not in the mainstream” type of posts I make is just incredible. I am a selfish writer. The things I write are of importance to me or of personal interest to me and you all allow me to share them here. Like most every one here, I do not post for ratings or recommends, although I appreciate both when they come. So it is a special treat to see some of my oddities up on the recommended list, and always a surprise. And you know I look to see which of you “weirdo’s” actually took the time to read and recommend my offering. I am always further surprised at the diversity of you as readers that felt it worthy of your time. Not what I would expect. . .
I am very grateful to the BooMan for providing this forum, and I am absolutely thrilled at the numbers of you I count as new friends and family.
Yes, BMT is a very unique place on the Internet, and one I am very proud to be a member of.
Love you all. . .and appreciate you more than you can know.
Hugs
Shirl
thanks for the kind mention.
I have not been around here so much, and have provided little original material recently (i.e. not crossposted either on dKos or ET), so i don’t know if you refer to the European whiff from the ET links, or the occasional text, but thanks anyway!
Maybe i’ll add a few words about how i see dKos, as both an “insider” (i.e. a regular with lots of visibility) and an outsider (a foreigner, and French to boot):
First, dKos is really several sites.
But dKos now is more than about Kos, it is an aggregator. That’s where you go because that’s where everybody is, and everybody is there because that’s where you go. It’s become a big meeting place. and that’s invaluable if you want to get lots of different opinions, if you want to really test your arguments, or if you are looking for depth of information. the counterpart is that it’s become quite rough, very crowded, and somewhat anonymous. And you diary, even if it goes down the chute after half an hour, will have had more readers than you can dream of anywhere else.
But you cannot get both the audience and the coziness, that’s simply not possible. So Booman’s has a part of its success because it is familiar, but less stressful than dkos. it has managed to build on that initial reservoir to become something different enough, and that must be credited to Susan and Boo. And it gets to be big enough that you get some good feedback, enough information and interaction to keep yourself busy. But like I wrote, Kos is THE meeting place of the left, and it will be impossible to cut the link altogether, and to avoid such meta diaries. We should not let us get annoyed by them. I suspect it’s healthy to discuss these things once in a while, as long as it’s not obsessive.
Don’t get annoyed about the dKos “community”, it’s just too big, it’s a crowd, a loose network of communities, some of which find other places to meet on their own and come once in a while to the big market place to know what the others are doing and reading.
As to dKos being centrist, let me say this: I am a centrist economically speaking, and a lot more liberal on social issues. Kos is probably the other way round. As BT cares a lot about social values and probably a bit less about the economic stuff (at least it does not generate the same passions), it’s kos’s more conservative pov on some social issues that pisses people here off. Within the community, you get every kind of opinion, including those that are offensive to you if you have deeply held views on one or several topics, and one of these will inevitably come up and write something that you cannot tolerate. That’s a fact of life in such a big crowd, and it has little to do with kos beyond the obvious fact that he does not restrain such abrasiveness.
This ended being a lot longer than I expected (maybe I’ll do a diary with it), but kudos again to k/o, susan and boo, and everybody else on the site, for their fine writing and good spirits.
I have posted a slightly extended version of this comment as a diary
hello back to you too!
For me, it is all about respect.
For me, everything is about respect.
My main guiding principle is that all beings deserve to be treated with respect; I attempt to live my life that way and generally find that respect breeds respect. I stopped posting at Dk, not because I am thin-skinned, or prudish, or sanctimonious, nor any of the other things I was called, but because of the casual disrespect that is commonplace. I don’t accept disrespect like that in my everyday life, I see no reason to online. For me, such disrespect is both a symptom of societal disfunction and the thin end of the wedge of societal breakdown.
Here at Bootrib, and at Eurotrib, there is respect for individuals – whatever their beliefs or opinions.
The sheer number of brilliant and perceptive comments on this thread alone is proof positive of the excellence of Booman Tribune and cause for great celebration.
It never occurred to me to think of BT as an “alternative” to DKos, and I consider myself fortunate to have experienced BT for itself right from the start, rather than as a counterpoint to something else.
Rathe than echoing so many other insights and praises delivered here in this thread, I just want to say that I’m very glad to be here, and I’m very glad virtually everyone here seems more intent on expanding awareness and sharing information with an eye towards evolving our understanding rather than seeeing to pontificate in order to exalt one’s own views in that shabby way only the self-possessed display. No one here is his/her own biggest fan; no one here needs to “attack” others as a means of making a point.
This is humanity at it’s best and I’m delighted to be a part of it.
I posted this over on Jerome’s diary, but it seems to apply here too. Minor edits have been made…
kos, booman, Jerome, Lenin, etc., etc…
I actually started blogging at Howard Dean’s website, Blog for America, and while I do read Kos, I mostly show up for the one-stop headlines shopping. You know how it is; there for a while, I would actually get excited about knowing the inside scoop a week before my parents read it in the NYT… I am hardpressed to pass up a heated political debate or snarkfestorama, but the scene at Kos and a similar phenomenon over at BFA eventually lead me … uhm, not to Booman exactly, but to European Tribune. I don’t know. I guess I needed to hear new voices and try to see a bigger picture. Remind myself that sanity does exist in the world…
I have always thought the brilliance of blogs, the reason we NEED them, is twofold: for a period in this country most liberal/progressive/free thinking folks were ghettoized. The mainstream media did not acknowledge them. And person-to-person, many people who were longtime liberals were suddenly hesitant to express their views, to rock the boat. Between 9-11 and the war in Iraq, something odd happened where most progressive types in the US actually wondered if THEY were insane… So the internet provided a safe, anonymous forum for people to gather to criticize our country’s policies.
Frankly, I don’t personally feel as indebted to Markos Moulitsas as I do to Howard Dean & staff. And I continue to admire what they did more than I do Kos. The gave us a megaphone, not a rule book.
The more prescient purpose of the blogs we frequent, IMO, is to provide, no, to create an alternative to the mass media in America. What Kos CAN do, and does well, is compete with the Networks and CNN for the watercooler. Important stories can no longer be ignored. We are no longer at the mercy of CNN for our information. We no longer have to take ABC’s word for what America “is thinking”. There can be no more cover-ups. The State propaganda has viable competition. Truth has a home.
I am not as concerned with who is running the website as I am with what views are being expressed.
I mean, if I can get online anytime day or night and discuss alternative energy sources with a Frenchman, well, then, that is that much LESS power George W. Bush has over me.
Kos… Well, now he’s going after freaking Garrison Keilor! I mean, really… There are a lot of bad fucking people in this country. There are dangerous agendas, and my friends, Prairie Home Companion is NOT one of them. I think he is cracking up. It’s the hate. Hate will be the undoing of the wingnuts and if we let it it will be the undoing of us too. I mean, I watched the coverage of Katrina. There is enough negativity in our psyches. If Kos really wants to be part of the solution, he needs to stop going after the very people and ideas the Christian Right is out to crucify. His priorities are all messed up. And now the site is not about creating a viable alternative to the Powers That Be, but it is about Markos …
Thing is, I have always felt that had I been there and then, I would have supported Lenin whole-heartedly. Power corrupts… We are all human. We should help, not worship & marginalize, each other…
My hat is off to you. Mega 4. You write so well I think you are misnamed.
Well Merci Beaucoup!
Hey, I work at the lib. too! (UofC, The Reg…)
I know I write well. It is my only saving grace. Thank god for the blogosphere, eh?
U of C the Reg? What is the Reg? or rather which campus of UC?
I agree with librarylil. But will add that this is not just great writing – its great analysis as well. Thanks for the insight!
I posted a similar diary back in July, asking what BT was all about, and received an overwhelming response.
Here’s my answer to your question: quality.
Ideally, a church is a community of people who gather for a common purpose. In the religious sense, the purpose is to reach greater understanding and communion with the Divine, however He/She/It is perceived. A church educates its members, there is a chance for members to teach one another, and there is time to come together in fellowship.
In a sense, we have that here. We’ve come together in a common goal, that is the redemption of our country from the mess the Repubs and Religious Reich have made of it. In the front page, we have Boo and Susan and others educating us, and in the diaries we are able to educate each other. And of course, in the Froggy Bottom Cafe and other diaries, we have the opportunity for fellowship, to share each other’s joys and sorrows.
And if we need a saint or two, I nominate St. Keith Olbermann of Secaucus…
Benitez sucks…(the spouse and I were listening to the game last night…)
There is something familiar to me about this rare mixture of family warmth and the everyday presence of experience in intelligence matters.
Not that I actually feel at home here. Never that, anywhere.