That was a quote from the Hindu scripture that J.Robert Oppenheimer recalled at the first ever explosion of an atomic weapon at Alomogordo.That could also describe what we, as a nation, have become since that fateful day.Far from being seen as the liberators of humanity from the scourge of Nazism, we are now universally hated, reviled and feared.The rest of humanity fears that, in our quest for domination, we will end up destroying the world.
The War on Terror, that Bush has unleashed, is seen by many as part of an Imperial Crusade to keep the poor and powerless peoples of the world perpetually under American domination.That aspect of this so called war is completely missed by what passes for our Press these days. That the people we are supposed to be fighting are, to a man, literally destitute, powerless and subject to the arbitrary power of tyrants who always happen to be our so called friends,i.e people like the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, Mubarak, Musharraf, Sharon and the late unlamented Shah of Iran, Somoza,Pinochet and others too numerous to mention.We can proudly add our own home grown tyrant, Bush, to the parade of the ignoble.True to our characteristic thoroughness in such matters and the inevitable cries of we are number one, he has done these monsters one better.He has set aside the Geneva Conventions,instituted an illegal regime called Extraordinary Rendition and violated even our own Constitution which he has sworn to uphold.
The shame he has brought upon this nation with his War on Iraq pales in comparison to what he has done and failed to do when confronted with the havoc unleashed by Katrina and Rita. As usual he was not merely asleep at the wheel,he was busy strumming his guitar and eating cake on a political swing through the Midwest even as the people of New Orleans were drowning in the muck created by his negligence.The world has clearly seen what Frank Zappa has called the brick wall behind the facade of the smiling face of American Imperialism.
In the short span of his miserable regime, Bush has done something no one has been able to accomplish before.He has forever laid to rest the lie that America means well by other peoples, that it is a force for good at home and abroad and its transgressions need to be tolerated by others precisely for those reasons.That image has been shattered for good.No one at home or abroad buys that anymore.
I would sit here and click this one every few minutes for the rest of the day.
Clicking on the same button again and again would at least be useful activity on your part. Might make a nice change from the “semi-vintage Bollywood” movies and bad pizza.
I’m gonna ask this of you.
Please chill with the movies and pizza stuff. I understand that Ductape has offended you, and I understand why. His form of rhetoric can be disrespecful. I told him he was being a prick in one his comments myself. But I don’t want this low level discourse where people are savaged personally.
It’s bad for the site. Both you and Ductape post very good comments all the time. Sometimes, not so much. The main thing is that we can’t have this kind of hostility without it poisoning the atmosphere of the site.
I think a good discussion was had in the thread to my story, where people waged a battle of ideas and found some common ground. I think Ductape made a much more coherent defense of his argument in that thread than ‘cease aggression and disarm’. I think you made several very good posts in that thread. That is what we are striving for. Not this type of thing here.
Booman:
I hear you. I did go overboard with the movies/pizza
thing. In fact, I shouldn’t have done it at all (one mention of it would have been too many, except as a jest). No more personal hostility–I shall confine my future discussions to the issues (see my response to Yaright above).
anything to continue perpetuating that the entire US population is evil and contemptous.
Why don’t you bring some solutions to the table, instead of this false rhetoric of the american people are evil.
Cease aggression and disarm.
life. Like every nation in the world, we shall have some form of military and my hope is that one day, peace shall reign upon the earth and no country will ever have to have a military.
It displeases me greatly that my country spends more than 400billion dollars on defense that is used offensively. But in your estimation we who have fought against the military/industrial megacorporations are no better than they are in the oh so great insights of ductape fatwa the great.
So lets see if the US disarms the peace shall indeed reign upon the earth. The US is the only nation in the world that is causing all the issues around the globe, the US is a rogue nation who despises every other nation in the world and has never in its 200 plus year existence one done anything that could be construed to have been a postive thing to help other people who habitat this planet with Americans.
Thank you oh great and wise ductape fatwa for showing me the error of my ways. I promise penance to work to make sure that me and my nation will never again bother the world with our insidious evil.
Where the fuck are you solutions, you use rhetoric like a weapon.
Ghostdancer:
Notice that the Ductaper is a bit short on specifics. “Cease aggression”. Well, that’s a noble goal, which is to be achieved how, exactly?
Notice he never has anything specific to say, either about what he’s doing nor about what other people should do to achieve his lofty goals–and when you try to engage the Ductaper, he falls back on his “talking points” and tired mantras about the positively Manichean evilness of Americans and anyone who disagrees with him.
Ductaper is, in short, a very silly person, some chap who sits at his keyboard and has no involvement in the real world, and is unable to think of one practical, workable solution.
And what we need right now are solutions. People who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work.
He’s not that person. Never has, is not now, never will be.
seems to be all that comes out of Mehlman and ductape fatwa.
I am a solution orientated person, when I see a problem I start asking for help in finding a solution that is viable and will bring in others to help encapsulate the problem and solve it.
talking points evil america fatwa would be a better descripter.
if you are not part of the solution then for the most part you are part of the problem.
America is fucked up right now and has done its share of damage, but we are not the sole provider of the shitstorm that has permeated the world over the last 200 years.
If evil america fatwa is to be believed, the fascists in Europe were attacked by the Imperialistic americans trying to take over the world.
Enough.
I know you and Shadowthief are pissed at Ductape. Got that message somewhere in the course of the last three diaries.
But you both went out of your way to drag that fight into this one. Take it to email, take it to Boo, but take it the heck out of the other diaries.
Okay?
Peace.
I am disgusted with the continuous painting of all Americans as war criminals, vile contemptuous dominionists, who should be eliminated from the world because we have infected it.
I read this garbage and know that my country is and has been fouled up off and on over its history. I also know that many of us are working our asses off to facilitate change within our country using legal methods to bring about that change.
I am sick of hearing just how despicable my country and I am because some asshats figured out a way to take control of our government.
If I offend you then troll rate me and you won’t be bothered by me any longer. Until such time, I will continue to address these long winded accusatory and despicable attacks against those of us in the US that are working to change our nations policies.
we’ll beat these bastards in the WH. Have faith. I know you do.
Booman, this site is my home on the net and I thank you for giving me this place to not only find solace with other progressives, but to be a part of a solutions orientated community.
Again thank you for creating the frog pond.
Yes, I get that.
But klatoo’s post is entirely on George W Bush, not on you and I. Not on the good people who are trying to restore our nation’s standing in the world — not to gain praise from others, but simply to restore our nation to the ideals we all agree it should live by.
You’re telling Klatoo to STFU, by lumping him in with your characterization of Ductape. Is that your point? Do you wish all diaries exposing the failings of the US as a nation or calling into question how we may be seen by other nations to simply not exist?
Were all “white men” ressponsible for the atrocities committed by the US Govt on “behalf of the people” against the Natives of these lands? Would you take seriously any who made such claims? Would you attack them? Would you deny the truth of what they say, as you attack the conclusion they draw from the facts?
Is your role now that of anti-US-sentiment diary police? Will you be blasting all such diaries, or only those Ductape approves of?
Can you understand that attacking fellow concerned Tribber’s does absolutely nothing to defend the reputation of our military, past or present?
Can you seek consensus, instead of drawing lines of black and white and pushing fellow tribber’s across those lines?
You aren’t responsible for Ductape’s comments, and no one is holding you responsible. You are responsible for your reactions.
told one single person to stfu. I have asked for solutions and received only rhetoric and continued, america and americans are bad.
I have openly discussed the shortcomings of my country and have never denied that our military and its leaders have done criminal acts.
I rarely offer criticism of someone’s that is anti american in its viewpoint, when based upon fact and have not told anyone to stfu because of its content.
I don’t know where you are getting your information but I highly recommend that you reread my comments.
As far as ductape goes, he finally offered something that offers a suggestion toward a solution and I acknowledged it.
I am sorry that you see me as some kind of fascist who can not accept anti americanism when in fact I am no such thing.
There is no stfu anywhere in my discourse and I have strived to maintain some semblance of civility when responding to broad generalizations of my country and its citizens.
Here’s my answer to Yaright:
I shall post wherever I like, whenever I like, on BooTrib so long as I have posting privileges here. I do not need you to tell me what I am and am not permitted to do.
I’m sorry to be so abrupt with you, but it does get a bit tiresome when others are trying to steer the discussion away from this or that simply for some ephemeral “harmony” or because controversy upsets them. This is what democracy is–it’s debate and dissent and people speaking freely without fear of being told to quiet down because they are upsetting others.
Please remember: I didn’t post this diary. I responded to what was written, and more specifically, what was not written, pointing out the damnable vagueness (a blanket condemnation about America being “the destroyer of worlds” without one single practical solution or step offered is nothing but handwringing, and I object to it). I didn’t drag a fight in from another diary, as you seem to think–I objected to the sentiment behind this diary.
Sometimes for a split second I wonder if certain comments are made to make me reactionarily more “pro-American”. Certain diaries in these past few days, not just here, have made me think: Ok this diary sounds like a stereotype of the left made by the right.
Blueneck’s photo fair diary has a shot of the ground zero building at Hiroshima.
Thanks for your link to Blueneck’s picture of ground zero at Hiroshima.I had an opportunity to visit Japan about ten years ago and stopped at Hiroshima.It is a very moving experience to see that spot and recall what Wordsworth said about man’s inhumanity to man.
Death. Destruction. Tyranny. Torture. EVIL.
You have said it more eloquently than I am able. Thanks for your vigilance and for your many contributions here at Booman Tribune.
The world is seeing the drawbacks to capitalism. The same reason capitalism has been so successful is that it lays open the true spirit of man. Which can be boiled down to survival. All powerful nations will have blood on their hands as they have to kill to reach the top of the heap. We are no different here in the U.S. There is a trail of tears in our history. Bush’s War in Iraq has unleashed the worst in our culture’s christian religion as the brutally self-righteous. We expect other cultures to strive to be like us or be controlled, ruled or exterminated. Then we wonder why the very cultures that we have controlled, ruled or nearly exterminated are pissed. Its an arrogance that sickens all powerful nations. We have to look to the words of the founding fathers, and realize the Rights of Man apply to all cultures and all countries.
we are now universally hated, reviled and feared.The rest of humanity fears that, in our quest for domination, we will end up destroying the world.
What colossal arrogance. I’d suggest standing a little farther back from the trees to get a much better view of the forest. Of the countries in the world that do not fear us, we could start with Russia, China (in fact ALL of Asia), India, Iran, all in the European Union, and the entire continents of Africa and South America (and I’m sure I’ve left a few out).
On the list of those who “hate” and “revile” us, the list would include (at this point) most of the Arab-speaking world, and a few small-ish nations on those same African and South American continents.
Far from “quest for domination”, we are militarily engaged in two countries ostensibly to fight “global terrorism”. Neither engagement has been successful, and both have exacerbated rather than diminished the threat.
Ah, but this diary is a “Bush Rant”, not an informed discourse on a true world view, nor a discussion of how to change the current regime. I note that you do actually acknowledge the rest of the three hundred million souls in this country in your last line.
It might have been better to start there.
You ask too much, rba.
Come up with a solution? This lot? Not a bit of it! Their sole trade is in hysterical complaints and doomsaying. It must be great fun for them, because it certainly helps no one else.
What’s more, the statement that “no one” in the US believes in the Bush/Cheney neocon agenda is demonstrably false–at least one-third of the American people fervently believe in Bush personally, and at least that many agree with the agenda. In a country where half of the citizens do not bother to vote, perhaps all that’s required to seize control of the government is a plurality of the faithful who actually organise and do vote–as opposed to just bitching about the state of the world on blogs.
I agree with Howard Dean’s prediction, made during the 2004 primary campaign season, that if the United States could not restrain its own behaviour, eventually other nations would combine to check its power. I think we will begin to see some real rapprochement between China and Russia, for example, in an attempt to counterbalance America’s waywardness in foreign policy.
I do agree with you that invading and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan is scarcely a scheme for world domination. It is an attempt to influence the global petroleum markets, as well as dominate internal American politics by dint of a permanent wartime footing, but “destroyer of worlds”? That’s over the top, but what did you expect from the “shadowy conspiracy” crowd here on BooTrib?
As Bush’s “engagement” as you would call it in Iraq comes acropper, many who supported him are distancing themselves.The recent Gallup poll indicates nearly 70% are against the continuation of the war.
What is worse is that in his Tursday “major” speech, Bush was talking about bringing the benefits of his freedom and democracy to a larger number of countries, presumbaly Iran, Syria and who knows what other.That, I am assuming, would not include Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
I suppose when I talk about destroyer of the worlds I will find a better audience from the people of Fallujah than in Dallas.But then those brown skinned never amounted to much anyway.So who cares what they think?
You keep referring to the third of our population that are fervent believers in Bush’s agenda. By an even greater percentage Hitler commanded the loyalty of the Germans even as the Red Army was approaching the chancellery in Berlin. That shows the that the extent to which the propaganda has worked in his favor even as every single thing he has touched has crumbled and continues to crumble around him.And what does he propose to remedy the situation? Why, an increased war on terror, of course taking it to Iran, Syria and who knows where else.
You claim that that the wars he has unleashed are to secure petroleum when a glance at the PNAC document that is a favorite of every single official of his administration shows that this administration intends not merely to secure petroleum for our own needs but to deny it to potential rivals ( read China) in order to maintain our dominance.
As for solutions,it must come at the ballot box next time if our electoral process is not tainted again.I guess you would call me a conspiracy monger if I doubt Bush was not elected at all but usurped power with the connivance of the SC and his well placed surrogates in Florida and Ohio.
I think what we are doing at the blogs is quite important contrary to what you may believe.This effort denies the administration and its shills in the MSM the monopoly that they seek in our political discourse.That alone ensures that their views will not prevail.
Well, so many charges I can scarcely answer them all.
I’ll be brief, as I don’t think your posts deserve a detailed response.
Your response,or what passes for it, has not even begun to address the issues I have raised.I will be very brief because of that very reason.
1. I am glad you accept the idea that our electoral process has been tainted so that the real workable solution to citizens in a democracy has been denied in 2000 and very likely in 2004.
2.On issue after issue,Iraq,Economy Bush’s support is a lot less than it was just a few months ago and contnues to erode in the wake of Katrina.As I have stated even Hitler commanded the loyalty of a lrger percentage as the Red Army was at the Chancellery in Berlin.Historically, people are known to stand behind a beleagured leader in times of war or extreme stress.
3.You call Bush’s strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan as maintaining “disproportionate influence” in that strategi region.What is “disproportionate influence”/ Some naive souls like me might construe that to mean dominance which indeed it happens to be.
The PNAC document is a comprehensive blueprint that was vetted by Lewis Libby and Paul Wofowitz with the blessing of Cheney and Rumsfeld.Under an essay titled
“Rebuilding America’s Defenses” that nefarious document not merely calls for monoploizations of oil resources so that American dominance can be assured well into the twety first century, it also advocates the development of space based weapons and the development of viruse attacking specific genotypes.To belittle that document’s impact is to show profound ignorance of who wrote it, who has blessed it and why.
4.Once agin you are belittling the impact of the blogs by claiming the viewership of CBS far exceeds that of all the blogs on the left.I say that so long as the blogs exist,the worldview espoused by the paid shills of mega media will be denied total dominance and that is enough for our purpose at this time.As the blogs’ influence grows as it has shown capable of doing during Howard Dean’s run, we will see more and more people seeking that kind of multifaceted views instead of the totalitarian, one dimensional views expressed on all the networks.
Somebody up above wrote: “I say that so long as the blogs exist,the worldview espoused by the paid shills of mega media will be denied total dominance and that is enough for our purpose at this time.”
BooTrib gets 13,000 visits a day. Not all of those visits represents a separate, unique person–the readership here is probably a few thousand on a good day.
8-10 million people watch the CBS Evening News every night.
You’re right, the mainstream media don’t have total dominance. They only have 99.99% of the audience.
Again, you and I differ on the way we measure our impact.I say that so long as we deny total dominance of the world view we are doing something that denies them control and that is adequate.You cite numbers of their audience.Are they all tuned into specific items like we are discussing here? Do they even have such discussions over at CBS? And how many interruptions does CBS have on any program?
When you factor in all of these considerations and the subject matters we deal with, I will choose Boo Trib over CBS any day.
If a foreign army invaded the United States and seized all of its territory except a small town in North Dakota, population 11, would you say that you had denied them “total victory”?
From a literal standpoint, you would be correct, because 11 Americans would not be under foreign domination (leaving 285 million Americans in occupied territory).
However, that is not really a victory–11 people out of 285 million. And that is the scale we are talking about here.
Blogs are but a small part of the media. The left needs its own non-corporate, independent radio/television/print media outlets, else it will never promulgate its message.
A better comparison would be the lone voice of Senator Byrd against the Iraq War Resolution against the cowardly 99 who gave Bush his carte blanche for the war.His sane and courageous voice stands out in this shameful episode.
I believe that the blogs which are unearthing many such misdeeds including that of Judith Miller, Libby and others along with Bush’s own malfeasance in New Orleans are performing a valuable service in educating the rest of us , a task the MSM have miserably failed at.
I plan to write about Senator Byrd soon.He is the type of American hero we need in these dark ages.
I do not know where you get the idea that Russia, China and India do not fear/hate us and your inclusion of Iran on this list is laughable to say the least.FYI, Russia, China, India, Brazil ( one of the smallish! nations in Latin America that you allude to) have formed an alliance that seems to be the precautionary effort in case our mania for dominance becomes too much.Even in the European Union, the majority of the people in country after country have expressed their distrust and dislike of this administration many times. That said, they have been careful to distinguish between this country and its people from the administration.Hugo Chavez has clearly noted the difference, going so far as to provide aid in the form of fuel to the people of New Orleans when Bush’s surrogate Robertson openly calls for Chavez’s assassination.
. . . distrust and dislike of this administration . . .distinguish between this country and its people from the administration.
Thank you for taking my point.
As to China: she owns our debt, and knows the power she holds over our economy. Her government is also fully aware that this nation will not interfere in any action other than a “hot war” Taiwan (those with longer memories remember Chiang as a warlord – not a savior). In Iran, as here, there are enough people to counterbalance the insanity of their radical right. Polemic rhetoric is one thing, action another.
My objection to this, and many other diaries in this vein is the blatant attack on one single nation without placing actions in context of the wider community of nations. Further, to simply curse the darkness in no way contributes to the dialogue needed to find solutions.
I will simply note that the Iraqi people never invaded us, did not have the capability to harm us and did not even contemplate manyfacturing WMD’s.Even after these facts were established, Bush invaded that country and devastated the city of Fallujah killing 100,000 or more of its citizens.Now you tell me who I should blame?
Blame for Fallujah can be laid at the feet of both sides in the battle. Those that suffer are ALWAYS the innocents caught in the crossfire.
What is blame on both sides? The citizens of Fallujah are living in their own country when an invader arrives from far away and under specious pretexts with no approval from the UN, launches a war against an impoverished country with no weapons of any kind let alone WMD’s and you want to assign blame on both sides?
He has forever laid to rest the lie that America means well by other peoples
This is one of the consequences of the propaganda, voter suppression, and meida manipulation of the 2004 election. People no longer cut the US people slack. They think that a good majority agree with Bush.
“America” is not a monolith. Democrats did not lose the election because of media manipulation, they lost because they did not have a viable candidate. Even so the margin of those voting was less than 3%. Down the line the decisions in the MSM to promote/suppress “news” was made in the vacuum created by the lack of a “loyal opposition”.
America is indeed a monolith in terms of who controls the levers of power.The best expression of that totalitarian reality comes from Gore Vidal who has characterized our political system as being dominated by one party, the Money Party, with two wings, the Democratic and the Republican.Why else would the Democratic Party adopt the same views toward Iraq that the Republicans have put forth?
and it seemed fairly calm except for Miers. I think they are incensed that she might be FOR affirmative action. In their eyes if somebody else gets a piece of the pie it is less for them. In truth, the smaller we imagine this pie the smaller we become.
Funny, just this morning I was reading the Wikipedia entry on the Trinity test.
“I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.“
Variants on this quote exist, both by Oppenheimer and by others. A more common translation of the passage, from Arthur Ryder (from whom Oppenheimer studied Sanskrit at UC Berkeley in the 1930s), is:
Death am I, and my present task
Destruction. (11:32)
Since the Gita’s first translation into English in 1785, most experts have translated not “Death” but instead “Time”. A further elaboration of the supposed Oppenheimer quote often cited is taken from Robert Jungk’s 1958 Brighter than a Thousand Suns:
If the radiance of a thousand suns
were to burst into the sky,
that would be like
the splendor of the Mighty One—
I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.
Test director Kenneth Bainbridge, in an attempt to be less poetic, or perhaps more so, was said to have replied, “Now we are all sons of bitches.” According to Oppenheimer’s brother, Frank, at the time of the test he simply said, “It worked.“
In my post I was trying to convey some of the awe that inspired Oppenheimer to make that comment from the Bhagavad Gita.I was also trying to relate that to our own descent into Iraq as stated by none other than Rumsfeld in his “Shock and Awe” phrase before the launch of the war.While Rumsfeld and Oppenheimer were miles apart in their outlook, the outcome of their work remains the same.