… now please bend over and do as I say.
Listening to ‘the Voice’
Ogborn was told to empty her pockets and surrender her car keys and cell phone, which she did. Then the caller demanded that Summers have Ogborn remove her clothes — even her underwear — leaving her with just a small, dirty apron to cover her naked body.Summers says she never second-guessed what she was being asked to do, as she firmly believed the person she was talking to was a police officer. Ogborn says she trusted her manager to do what was right.
From: Alas a blog
The segment was about an incident that occurred at a McDonalds in KY. A caller phoned the shift manager, telling her that he was a police officer who needed her help in conducting an investigation of a teen employee, then on-duty, believed to have stolen a purse from a customer. The caller then made a series of instructions over about a three hour period, that led to the girl being strip searched, spanked, and humiliated. Finally, the supervisor is asked to bring her fiancé in to watch the girl, while the supervisor returns to work at the counter. The “police officer” then instructs the fiancé to have a girl perform a sex act on him, which he complies with. The girl is crying throughout this ordeal. At no point does anyone question the authenticity of the call, except for one teen worker who leaves in disgust, saying it’s all BS. The security camera in the office, captured the entire assault.
It’s the most troubling thing I seen, and frankly it kept me awake last night. The individual who made the call had been made hundreds of such calls to fast food restaurants all over the country. In 70 cases, the person answering the phone, complied with his requests, resulting in strip searches of employees and customers, and in some instances, cavity searches.
This case should spark a needed debate on our willingness to blindly respect “authority” figures, and our accountability when we participate in immoral acts.
Reading this sheds some light on the 35% of wingnuts who are willing to follow this adminstration into the bowels of evil…without questioning…
Is this the purpose of destroying the educational system and trying to replace it with religisosity…?
MSNBC’s print report on this had quotes from a psychologist that the perp was targetting fast food, for a reason: they are trained to the manual. oUtside the manual, too many get lost. And I suspect small towns were picked off pretty easily.
And now, more intensely than ever under NCLB (thanks Teddy and thanks George Miller (D-CA), they both know better than their YES votes for Bush) we are ‘training to the test”.
Think about it.
Americans, sadly, make themselves into fodder.
I read that too… but Google has erased it for it memorybanks… that is the one I wanted to post… but I can not find it.
Parker, I remembered wrong…. the one I had sent to people was ABC, and it is still up:
I remember the uproar when McDonald changed their cash registers for idiot registers with the names of the burgers instead of numbers… folks were horrified that the employees could not be trusted to give correct change…
did the TV program say if there was even one instance of a caller like this being told by the employee who answered the phone to take a flying leap, or even saying, OK, thanks for that information. I’m sure you will understand that as part of our security procedure, I will now terminate this call with you and call our local police precint and ask for you by name so that we can get this cleared up?
He kept the manager on the line by saying that he was with the “manager’s manager”… it an authority thing… finally she called her manager at home who was asleep…
This is the stanford experiment all over again (in a truly disgustnig and perverted form), that revealed not only that “it’s an authority thing“, but that it’s also a sadism thing – ie this is not just a comment on the caller’s ability to engender an automatic response to authority, it’s also a comment on the average human being, who is more than capable of becoming a (sexual in this case) sadist if given half the chance.
It’s very ugly and confronting – we all want to think we wouldn’t comply. More than anything it speaks to the desparate need for progressives to stay unshaken in their resolve, and once back in power, to ensure that the education and cultural values of our societies are comprehensively overhauled.
I would have to reread the ABC article again but IIRC there were instances of staff calling BS.
the teen worker who left the facility without authorization?
The teen employee who “Left” only left the managers office (to go back out to the store to wait on customers) after he was asked to “guard” the girl while the manager went out into the customer area to do some of her business. This young teen male did not go along with what the “Officer on the phone” was instructing him to do. He was the only one who did not participate in the bizarre ordeal. However he did nothing to stop it. They didn’t go into his part of the story. The female manager was so brainwashed she would have done anything that the caller had asked. While watching the show all I kept thinking was these are the morons that put GW Bush into office.
according to a comment on Alas a Blog. When the girl was told to perform a sexual act on him, he refused, and called popo.
I did not see the program, but I suppose we can hope that the janitor was unaware of the crimes until he was instructed to line up.
Thanks for clarifying the part about the other employee.
But this is also interesting that the “lower” staff had enough common sense to see that it was bullshit.
The kid and the cleaner refused but the “Manager” keep this up for three fucking hours….
Read it..You should have seen it on TV the other night. It was shocking. One of the more powerful stories I have seen on 20/20 or Dateline or whatever the show was. The poor girl..The entire thing was video taped as there was a camera recording the entire 3+ hours that the child(Employee) was being “Tortured” inside the small managers office. Seems a lot of these people are brainwashed and would never question authority. btw/Great diary title
It is so surreal on so many levels… but an accurate depiction of the US right now. Had this been in the Soviet Union in the 70’s and 80’s no one would have blinked an eye…
I once worked at Burger King for a whole day… many many years ago…. first of all I could not stop laughing at my image in the mirror… but I remember distinctly that once I donned that ridiculous uniform… I ceased to exist.
It was the summer and I was hired with a guy who just graduated from college… he was so proud that the manager let him carry her clipboard… I was outta there faster than a Dem can roll over and play dead…
Do you have any pictures of you in that uniform? That I would pay money to see.
Oh … THE HORROR…
Sorry no pics… ONE DAY was my limit…I could not bring myself to work there any longer….
Boo or Suebohu or Catnip to Front page that Picture..The idea of YOU in that outfit really makes my day. Just to funny.
Yes, it is clearly the aim of the current administation to have a nation of sheep. Sheep paid low wages working at Walmart, where as a result, they must shop, in a vicious cycle. Sheep kept in line by evangelical religious zealots when they stray. But why oh why would anyone submit to this treatment pursuant to a telephone call. Even the most inocent yokel has seen cop shows, with their current fascination with police procedure, and would at the very least, have doubts about such a caller.
The caller(perp) kept the manager on the phone for over 3 HOURS. The manager called her boyfriend (soon to be husband) to come to the store and guard to girl..the button on the TV version of this story was that the police station was only blocks away from the McD’s where the poor teen girl was being tortured. The manager was lying through her teeth during the interview on TV. So much that her lawyer stopped and told her not to answer certain questions. Her Boyfriend can receive up to 30 years in prison. The Perp (Caller) up to 15 years..and the manager, I believe they said up to 3 years. It’s all happening in TN and FL..so I am sure they will get the MAX. The female manager(who looked about 50) is no longer marrying the dirtbag boyfriend. The innocent girl who worked at McD’s is suing McE’D’s and the Manager. These are the people we are dealing with in order to bring down the brainwashing Repub party.
You missed one. Sheep trapped in loveless marriages with lots and lots of children. So that the husbands are encouraged to go off to war (what better way to ensure adherence to authority than military discipline?) and the women and teenaged children are encouraged to work long hours for low pay in the nation’s “service centers”.
Friends, friends, friends. I find this sick. I find this sad. But I don’t find it particularly surprising.
The vast majority of people will almost always obey the Voice of Authority(tm). They may gripe, but in the end they comply. That is the horrific truth of the Milgram Experiment, of which this incident is basically just a variation.
The only way to avoid overconcentration of authority and loss of freedom is to decentralize power into as many hands as possible and in as many ways as possible – economic, political, religious, educational, media, etc.
Bushco is a symptom of a deeper disease in the body politic, and we will not be safe from another Bush-like junta until the root causes that allowed this situation to occur are addressed. Call it “The Zen of Zinn.”
And if Milgram’s work didn’t convince you, check out the Ashe Conformity Experiment. It’s no wonder a free society has been a difficult to maintain condition throughout human history.
Dostoevsky was more correct than we knew.
The last five years… the message has been you are UNPATRIOTIC if you question authority… people believe that they can do hideous things as long as they are obey orders… this is Nazi Germany and these McAmericans are Hitler Youths…
or the kids from the Cambodian “Killing Fields”… who followed orders and killed their parents…
Manson..Jim Jones…the freak in San Diego(DOE) …David Koresh…the list goes on.
is “9/11 changed everything”.
Bingo…
just the mention of being a cop on the phone turned this idiot into a McAmerican. The militarization and policing of the country is being indoctrinated as we speak…
I swear this is what the Florida case was about handcuffing and arresting the 5 year old girl… they are purposely imposing the police into civil society.
the photo of the 5 year old being arrested and then the “If you don’t give me a free ticket to Great Adventure along with tickets to the next Britney concert and a $50 certificate to Blockbuster, I am not going to tell you who is carrying a machine gun or who is hiding an Oozie under their jackets or in their lockers. For $100 dollars I will tell you which teacher is molesting me.”
Yup… that is the face of McAmerica
Interestingly, decentralized power like you describe is probably the most efficient and scalable organizational system to boot…
Ashe Conformity Experiment… haven’t you noticed that in politics… how many times are they going to repeat that “electing anti-abortion Dems… will protect reproduction rights”… then they raise their voice when you refuse to be a parrot…
This experiment is in full force in Orange Square…
can you point me to a dairy as to what your suggestion or action would be? Are there any Dems that you like? Who would you vote for if an election were held today?
What does your question have to do with her comment and/or the focus of this particular thread? (esp. the comment of KP’s that she was responding to about the Ashe experiment??)
Confused.
I believe my question to Parker comes naturally out of the comment she posted. Go back and read it. Just asking a simple question. If the Repubs have it wrong and the Dems aren’t any better..just wondering who Parker would elect into office. Seems pretty clear to me. Not into a fight or flame war. I loved this dairy and the comments it inspired. He opened the door to my question. Perhaps I can learn a thing or two. I am guessing there is a Green contender out there somewhere.
First of all I would listen to the locals and not impose and coronate a Beltway candidate as they have with Salazar, Casey, Brown and now the lastest is Tammy Duckworth.
What would you do… just accept this bullshit?
I do my research…read up all I can, debate and then pick the person who I feel would most represent my opinion on the way many issues should be voted on and handled. If there is no clear choice, I vote for the person who comes closest. If no one does I would vote for the Democrat. I live in California, so unless it’s for the President..I am ok with the majority of my people, however I do have my eye on DiFi and the minute she crosses over to Lieberman territory I will stalk her. I call Boxers office at least a couple times a month. I call and write Arnolds office and tell him what I think of him very often. I worked here to bring his latest fiasco measures down and that worked. So I try and do my part. I am also keeping an eye on our new Mayor. What state/city are you in? Sorry if this is not the right place to be discussing this. I just find you quite interesting.
If no one does I would vote for the Democrat.
Well here is where we differ. That is exactly why the Democratic elected officials are moving further and further away from the base… because we keep electing them KNOWING that they will not represent us.
I am not sure I understand that. So if it came down to a freakshow rightwing Dobsonite on the final ballot(R) and a lackluster (D) that says I have my own personal beliefs, but will vote straight down the line with the Democrats including any appointments to the SCOTUS, I may vote against a couple of times against the Dems but the majority of issues I will stay on party line. YES this lackluster Dem compared to the Rightwing Repub Dobsonite freakshow would of course get my vote. I agree the problem lies with the fact the Dem party hasn’t been developing a local farm team that will work their way up through the ranks and support all the beliefs of the Dem base. So if the final ballot was Santorium and Casey would you just stay away from voting? or write in a name? What would you do in that case? just wondering?
So if it came down to a freakshow rightwing Dobsonite on the final ballot(R) and a lackluster (D) that says I have my own personal beliefs
Democracy and Freedom are not my personal beliefs tehy are universal. In PA it is coming down to *freakshow rightwing Dobsonite on the final ballot(R) and a reakshow rightwing Dobsonite(D)
I agree the problem lies with the fact the Dem party hasn’t been developing a local farm team that will work their way up through the ranks and support all the beliefs of the Dem base.
I did not say that. I specifically explained that the Belt way Dems are coronating and forcing their own choices over the local farm team.
and so does that mean you won’t vote? btw/ I didn’t mean to put words into your mouth..but they do kind of say the same thing. They don’t support the local farm team/they aren’t developing a local farm team. How do you feel about Hackett and Brown in Ohio? One seems local home grown, one Beltway estab?
they do kind of say the same thing…
No they don’t…
After watching Americans die unneccessarily away in Iraq and at home in Katrina I have decided that not only is it my duty but my personal responsibility to ensure a government that works for the people and not against them.
We are at the point where MORE people are going to die due to the idiotic behavior of politicians. I have no control or say who the GOP elects but I do have a say in who the Dems elect… Therefore, if this is still a democracy then I will continue to excerise my Democratic rights…
PARTICULARLY when we have witness OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again that electing non responsive Democrats will IN NO WAY FURTHER THE VALUES AND PRINCIPLES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY… IN FACT THEY JUST DESTROY WHAT LITTLE INFLUENCE WE COULD USE.
This political math is bullshit… when we just witnessed last week five Democrats OUTLAWED THE RULE OF LAW… I don’t give a flying fuck what letter they have behind their names… they are all shit to me.
yes..and then we’ve got ProTorture Lieberman and ProWar Hillary..So do we just let the Repubs win elections, if we are stuck with people like the 5 that voted with them last week against them on state ballots. I agree we need better Dems on the ballots, but if we don’t have them..do you not vote or vote for a Republican? I’m not sure we will ever get a Dem Senator from a Deep Red State (Alabama/Georgia/La./da Dakota’s to vote perfectly in line with the Dem party and base. I’ve been reading about a lot of local cities in very Red States that are perfectly happy with their Local Dem leaders and they re-elect them..maybe they are dixiecrats..but they either turn out to be Zel Miller or never make it out of local politics. It is very confusing..I think we may be fucked for several generations if something doesn’t happen soon.
but if we don’t have them.
That is the point WE DO!!!
But the Beltway Dems keep forcing their shitty candidates on the party
Have you seen the results from DFA I am sorry but is is just a lie that we have to run the Devil to win in these places… people want a choice and we keep propping up the GOP agenda.
So if the final ballot was Santorium and Casey would you just stay away from voting? or write in a name? What would you do in that case? just wondering?
There really isn’t a viable choice between Casey and Santorum and, really, not much of a difference between the two men. One of the reasons I’m involved in politics is to defeat men (and women) like Casey and limit their power. Furthermore the early and aggressive promotion of Casey has signaled to millions of us that the Democratic party has decided on a new direction and the manner in which Casey’s promotion has been conducted has signaled to those of us who pay close attention and take the pulse of the Democrats frequently that very basic values and representation of a large swathe of the democratic base is something disposible and, to be frank, an underlying contempt and genuine dislike for this portion of the electorate.
The strategy which has culminated in the promotion of men like Casey and Langevin is unfortunate for many reasons, both personal and political but, being pragmatic, we must understand and adapt. What we understand now is that Democrats aren’t to be trusted, that our basic civil rights are disposible for their, not our, gain. And that the folks defending and spinning this strategy either fail to recognise that we’re fully aware of all it’s implications and aren’t nearly as stupid as the spinmeisters believe us to be.
If confronted with that ballot choice I would certainly not vote for either candidate but I fail to see why this is of interest to the pro-Casey spinmeisters. It’s pretty obvious that he will win the election if he continues to refuse to speak honestly about his positions on social issues and it’s not like Santorum will be able to run to his left on those. What you should be concerned about is what will happen when a majority of the electorate realises that the Democrats have sold out to the religious right enough to change our culture in a manner which exacerbates poverty, codifies the second class status of over half the population and neuters the protections of the establishment clause for short term political gain.
Why is it that every diary you write Parker inevitabley turns into a dem bashing/Kos bashing thread for you. Can you not stay on topic here? I am sick of it!
Then don’t read it if makes you sick…
You know what Parker, I read it because I thought the topic was of interest to me. Then your comments in the thread were just the usual crap. Believe me, I won’t bother reading anything by you again. No problem.
I am not going to be bullied into writing what you want me to write… you notice I don’t write in your diaries… I like the same respect.
I think it is a legitimate question. Why do all your diaries attack Democrats and/or MyDD and Daily Kos?
When was the last time you wrote a diary that attacked a Republican?
You say that you don’t care what the Republicans do, because you are not a Republican. But that makes no sense to me.
For example, I have yet to see you make a comment about the fact that Arlen Specter campaigned on a pro-choice platform, and so we should expect him to reject Alito.
Instead, you insist on attacking anyone who suggests that Pat Leahy would be a more effective protector of women’s rights than Specter. And you call then liars for saying it.
When was the last time you wrote a diary that attacked a Republican?
Welcome to McAmerica.
you insist on attacking anyone who suggests that Pat Leahy would be a more effective protector of women’s rights than Specter
You freaking liar
Oh you are so out of line. Shame on you.
You just hijacked this diary and now you have the nerve to “shame” me after Boo just made the most outrageous LIE.
I didn’t hijack this diary…you did that yourself in your own diary by once again changing the subject to your bashing dems and kos.
YEAH SO…
it puts their shitty actions in context
Grow up.
hmmmmm….
you called me a liar last week when I made the exact point that Pat Leahy would protect women’s rights better than Specter. When I asked you to put up or shut up, you shut up.
Now you call me a liar again. So, I renew my request for you to demonstrate to me how a Republican led Senate is better for women’s rights than a Democratic one.
Also, I just wrote a diary that would qualify as attacking Republicans.
I answered you … you did not answer back…
AND IT WAS NOT ABOUT ABOUT LEAHY
replacing Santorum with Casey will be a move in the correct direction because it puts us one vote closer to adding two pro-choice votes to the judiciary committee
are you willfully stupid?
replacing Santorum with Casey will be a move in the correct direction because it puts us one vote closer to adding two pro-choice votes to the judiciary committee
That is synonymous with saying that Leahy is better than Specter.
Okay you have just slipped into the Twilight Zone…
There is not even a way to answer you… you changed Leahy for Casey and change the ENTIRE debate…
only in your mind.
As you know, I favor Pennacchio over Casey. That is not the dispute between us.
The dispute is over whether it would be better for Casey to win or Santorum to win. The dispute is over whether electing Casey will hurt or harm women’s rights.
Kos argued that Specter and Chafee are useless since they vote for Frist and they don’t block judges that are pro-life. Well Specter has a chance to prove Kos wrong. Do you think he will? I don’t.
Leahy chairmanship is what electing Casey is all about. That is Kos’s argument that you so rabidly oppose.
I differ from Kos in that I don’t think we should pick statewide anti-choice candidates in pro-choice states (and about 46 states are pro-choice). But I don’t disagree that Casey is better than Specter (or Santorum) on protecting women’s rights, no matter what his personal positions are.
If you want to rehash this debate then go back to the answers I made before on the original thread.
I want to know why you don’t ever write about things like Arlen Specter campaigning as a pro-choice candidate, and then giving the go-ahead to a candidate like Scalito.
After all, if the Leahy headed the committee he would not let Scalito out of the committee. Specter will. So, it seems obvious that it doesn’t matter what Specter says, only what he does.
Why are you obsessed only with Democratic sell-outs and not the much more significant Republican sell-outs?
That’s my question.
Like I said before Circle of Influence
Basically it is a waste of time and energy to bitch about Specter, although he is in my Cirle of Concern he is not in my Circle of Influence…whereas Democrats are squarely in my circle of influence.
I realise the question wasn’t addressed to me, Booman, but I find I must interject at this point and ask if you are now submitting commentators on Booman Tribune to Democratic Party loyalty tests.
That appears to be what you are doing to Parker. If that is so, then Parker will probably fail and I certainly will.
Why should we attack Republicans when we know what they’re all about? The Democrats–supposedly on “our side”–often betray progressive principles and cast votes and enact policies indistinguishable from those of the Republicans.
We have no influence on the Republican Party.
We have, or hope we have, some influence on the Democratic Party.
The Republicans are going to be the instruments of evil in the US. I’ve accepted that.
The Democrats are supposed to be the vehicle of progressive politics, and I, for one, am going to call them to task any time they don’t live up to that.
I find the tag-teaming between you and Alohaleezy, each of issuing shrill demands for Parker to post what you want her to post, to be heavy-handed, bizarre, and a bit sickening to read. Other than that, I’ve no problem with it.
…is why all the talk is about Casey vs. Santorum, when the real issue is who the Dems push for in the Democratic nomination process. Schumer pushed out the pro-choice candidate, as you noted in a diary, and yet whenever it comes up the false dichotomy of Casey vs. Santorum is always trotted out. Casey doesn’t officially have the nomination yet.
And expecting liberals and progressives to be happy that a Republican-at-heart is running as a Democrat just strikes me as unrealistic.
I’m not in PA, so it’s not my issue. But I will not vote for anyone who is socially conservative to the point of advocating government controls on people’s bodies, bedrooms or hearts. Period.
I got fooled once last year. That won’t happen again. Me, I’ll simply leave that space blank. And if we ever had the chance to say “none of the above,” I’d do it explicitly.
I’ll butt out now.
in leaving spaces blank. I believe in voting for the best choice available. That’s my call, and you have every right to make a different one.
In the end, I’ll be casting a vote for Pennacchio in the primary and a vote against Santorum in the general. And I’ll enjoy both votes.
Are you going to work for Pennacchio to get your state to wake up and see that the best guy is the guy nobody knows even exists? With the people PA elects it seems that the people of PA are very confused in what they want in their leaders.
I met Chuck last Tuesday and did a piece on his campaign last Wednesday. I’ll help out however I can.
Happy…Seems you and Parker really do want the same thing. When I saw Eugene post on your Diary over at Dkos that Casey believes a Pharmacist has the RIGHT to decide to not give a customer a perscription that has been perscribed by their doctor it really made me crazy. Then to add on it that Casey believes that the Fed Govt has the right to tell a woman what she can and can’t do with her body and that they should be in charge of a womans health decisions..I see no difference between Casey and Republicans. I am with other here that say I would leave it blank. That is fucking crazy..supporting and voting for a Man who believes these things in the long run will distroy our party. I couldn’t live with myself knowing I had voted to support an crazy person who thinks a Pharmacist has more rights than a customer and doctor.
When neither choice is even good, then there is no “best” choice. Just no choice, except participation in validating one non-choice over another.
If the choice is McDonald’s or Burger King, I choose to skip the meal.
That’s just me.
Some spaces need to be left blank… Imagine if the Democrats had left blank there vote on Iraq… Bush would not have had the MAN-DATE
I too have little problem leaving some spaces blank. I simply have no room for any sort of good will towards candidates who seem at best lukewarm and at worst openly hostile to Roe v Wade. I think it’s also safe to say that any political party wanting so much of a dime from me in campaign contributions should be advised that I’ll tell them where to get off. I have damned good reason to consider the GOP as close to pure evil as is humanly possible. I just don’t have all that much trust for the Dems, as their track record has been, shall we say, iffy.
I have two daughters to think of, after all.
While searching out the links for my comment above I ran across this, by the playwright Tony Kushner.
You.Must.Go.Read.It.Now.
(That was the Voice of Author-ity. You really do need to go read it. NOW!)
Thanks for linking to the piece. I’d read in the Nation when it was published. Powerful.
I worked for a private security firm for a few years, at a large client site — one of things I did was write the manual for the guard force. Those guys (well, there were some women, but they were mostly guys) lived and breathed by that manual. Especially in that line of work, they did not want to be in the position of having to make decisions (probably because they didn’t want to take the risk of being held responsible for making the wrong decision). A lot of instructions carried the disclaimer, when in doubt, ask your supervisor. Then of course we had to hope the supervisor was able to handle it — and their instructions included whom they could call if they needed authorization or guidance on something that had come up during their shift. I had one guy who would call me for every damned little thing; I had some I could rely on to call me only when there was a real emergency.
So there’s a reason for a manual; it lays down necessary procedures for the business, compliance with regulations as necessary, depending on what the business is. It provides structure and security for employees who are most comfortable in a clearly defined job role, who like knowing exactly what they are expected to do and when, and don’t want to be held responsible for stepping outside those roles. Most of them were reliable, hard-working folks, but they wanted clear rules and guidelines for what we wanted them to do.
That being said, however, this incident is an abomination. The combination of the fear/respect for authority, whether that meant the police or a supervisor (or a parent), and the genunine worry of losing a job if one doesn’t cooperate (as places like fast food restaurants can and do fire people, even shift managers, for all kinds of reasons, on the spot). And also the lack of a strong sense of self: self-confidence, self-worth, a sense that one is not only allowed to protest and defend oneself against abuse and harassment, but that one has the RIGHT to do so, no matter who the person abusing you is… and that one also has the right to stand up to authority if that authority is in the wrong.
And yet this is the response that Dobson’s brute-force, imposing authority from above, parenting techniques (slavishly adhered to by thousands of families, particularly religious ones) produce. Obey the authority figure, no matter what. Questioning authority, even abusive authority is a sin. You have no right to protest or stand up for yourself….
Abominable.
The more I think about this the more I am beginning to believe that this is EXACTLY what is attracting the wingnuts to this adminstration.
They are given carte blanche to HATE and to DESTROY anyone that does not agree with their tiny minds. Look at the hatefilled venom from the freepers…in one week Roberts cursed the entire city of Dover and O’Lielly asked that the entire city of SF be bombed.
The Schaivo debacle showed just how bloodthirsty these people all… then they have the nerve to mascarade their violence as MORALITY.