The New York Times, in “G.O.P. Tries to Split Democrats With Vote on Iraq War, “says that the vote is not expected “before 8 p.m.” (I’ll be flipping back and forth between the House (C-Span) and Keith Olbermann on MSNBC.) Meanwhile:
You can view video of Rep. John Murtha’s remarks on MSNBC.
You can make yourself sick by reading, via Crooks & Liars (quoting from Roll Call) that GOP lawmakers are floating an ethics probe of Murtha. “Republican lawmakers say that ties between Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and his brother’s lobbying firm, KSA Consulting, may warrant investigation by the House ethics committee.”
You can laugh over Jane Hamsher’s send-up of Rep. Jean Schmidt.
And you can read Christopher Dickey, in “The Terrorist Temptation,” who writes for Newsweek that:
[t]he Bush administration is so accustomed to torturing the truth, it can’t face the facts. Murtha’s outburst on Iraq has shown it is time to stop deluding ourselves. …
Dickey talked with Wolfowitz, who told him that the mistake was not training the Iraqis immediately to take over. Dickey retorts, “So the big mistake in Mesopotamia, it would seem, was not following the grand plans of the best and the brightest who took us to war there in 2003. Others failed, not they …”
But there’s no reason the rest of us should delude ourselves, which is one reason, I suspect, that Democratic Congressman John Murtha, a retired Marine colonel and long-time friend of the U.S. military on the Hill, spoke yesterday with such unfettered outrage. In some of the sound bites heard on the news, he seemed to be out of control. He was not and is not. His full statement, which I’ve posted on The Shadowland Journal is as well reasoned as it is passionate. The war in Iraq, he said, “is a flawed policy wrapped in an illusion.” Unlike Wolfowitz, who once went before Congress without even bothering to check how many Americans had died at his instigation, Murtha makes frequent visits to Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals to talk to the maimed survivors of this conflict. Says the congressman: “What demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support.”
Murtha makes a point that ought to be obvious, but that this administration constantly struggles to obscure: “Our military captured Saddam Hussein, and captured or killed his closest associates. But the war continues to intensify. Deaths and injuries are growing, with over 2,079 confirmed American deaths. Over 15,500 have been seriously injured and it is estimated that over 50,000 will suffer from battle fatigue. There have been reports of at least 30,000 Iraqi civilian deaths.” Meanwhile “our reconstruction efforts have been crippled by the security situation. Only $9 billion of the $18 billion appropriated for reconstruction has been spent. Unemployment remains at about 60 percent. Clean water is scarce. Only $500 million of the $2.2 billion appropriated for water projects have been spent. And most importantly, insurgent incidents have increased from about 150 per week to over 700 in the last year.” …. Read all (It’s very good.)
Did someone post this yet about the House debate?
Yes, that Jean Schmidt, the one who narrowly defeated Paul Hackett.
Glad you posted all that so it’s clear. That Jean’s the talk of the town! 🙂
Don’t miss Jane’s mocking of her.
I saw that on CSPAN. It was just amazing. Thought I was watching the House of Commons on the BBC there for a while. It looked like the next step would be fisticuffs.I think the Democrats have finally had their fill of abuse.
About time!!!!
you simply must watch the video.
omg
classic
http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/schmidtrepublicanstuntnov1805.wmv
Thanks for that Cedwyn. That was must see TV.
I saw this on “Hardball.” I could not believe my f&*king ears. This woman is offensive. She has no respect for our armed services. None. There are a lot of things you can call Murtha, but “coward” is not one of them — 37 years and two wars. Where’s her military record? Chicken-hawk biatch!
Ramen!
What, what what has this country come to? I do not recognise it anymore.
It had a special moment when the Vice President told an esteemed colleague on the floor of the Senate to pursue solo procreation.
This…Rep. Harold Ford (news, bio, voting record), D-Tenn., charged across the chamber’s center aisle screaming that it was an uncalled for personal attack. and Paul Hackett tell me it will be right, eventually.
Re: Harold Ford
First thought: About time you started acting like a Democrat.
Second thought: Maybe I’ll start to warm up to your senate campaign after all.
Third thought: Hmmm – Maybe Mr. Ford is concerned about his Senate primary challenger on his left after all…
(((((Third thought: Hmmm – Maybe Mr. Ford is concerned about his Senate primary challenger on his left after all… ))))))
I think you just hit the nail on the head there my young friend!
Wow, the House hasn’t seen anything like this in years. The naked ploy attack for personal smear, the actual personal attack, the whole bottle of acid thrown. The Republicans are fighting to retaqin control of the House. This almost looks like what the House of Reps was said to be like in the run-up to the Civil War in the 1850s.
Zell Miller will come rushing in challenging all comers to pistols at 10 paces.
Great diary.
Right. What just happened?
The dems. asked for 5 minutes a piece, then the speaker gave Rep. Gingrey an hour…..
Oh, wait!! Louise is up!
Gingrey and Slaughter are the debate managers on this part. Gingrey (since the Repubs brought the resolution) gets “awarded” the whole amount of debate time and then splits it with the other side (Slaughter).
Hey – sure – let’s have that Ethics probe.
I bet there’s nothing there – and if there is – well fine
while we’re AT it…. let’s probe ALL of the connections to lobbyist, consulting firms.
this ain’t partisan – we was ALL the corruption gone. Care to play GOP?
GOP Whack a Mole aint’ gonna work anymore.
Watching the debate before the vote. It is pretty clear there will be no Iraqi interruptus.
What he actually said:
Those distinctions are lost in the media, which prefers the “chain-saw-through-butter” approach to reporting. After all, parsing his statement for the money quotes is preferable to actually reading the whole thing. His call for bringing the troops home comes at the end of that statement:
He is absolutely not asking the U.S. to simply fly in our entire fleet of C-5’s, and load up anything with wheels to take our people out. He is providing a rational, clear alternative to the administration’s criminally negligent policies that serve only to sow further death and destruction for both our people, and the people of Iraq.
Both deserve better.
that’s been clear from the get-go (shoddy roll call reporting notwithstanding).
I just happen to be on the side that says this is an opportunity to withdraw now — which clearly isn’t going to happen.
(sorry for double-post)
some wingnut on house floor
“let’s not talk about an exit strategy, let’s talk about freedom.”
boy, that about perfectly sums their idiocy up in a nice wingnutshell.
Oh he was an ass — if I heard him say “18 and 19 and 20 year old heros” one more time, I was about to bash my TV.
I forget which one it was but one of the wingnuts was going on about our “boys” and “girls”.
I’d say there are no “boys” and “girls” in Iraq, other than amongst the Iraq citizens.
We have women, men, fathers, mothers, grandmothers, and grandfathers who are our soldiers, calling them “boys” and “girls” demeans them in my mind.
just told america to wake up!
called the R resolution a fraud, else why would its sponsor encourage its defeat?
he’s hoppin’ mad!
go kucinich, go!
“we’re going to expose the fakery when we see it”
Yeah — I wish Louise had given him more than 90 seconds — I want to hear every single dem. getting fired up like that, and telling it like it is.
Candice Miller is a cow and she is a sucky speaker.
Our old Secretary of State. Ugh! Fucking Christian Right in this state. Horrible.
How ludicrous that they would launch personal attacks against Muthra, it is their MO to smear people in relation to their media-mandated big picture issues, but not surprisingly they have lost touch with the REAL big picture: Jo average American whose patriotism, security, (and cheap gas) was sold down the river by an immoral war based on lies. It’s a Brave New World where the big oil executives are called on the carpet in front of a legislative body that is dominated by corrupt politicians who smack down attempts to require them to testify under oath. I guess you can’t fool some of the people all of the time.
and it is, why can’t the Democrats simply abstain?
H.R. Have you stopped beating your wife?
I was absolutely disgusted by Republican Rep. Jean Schmidt’s hateful remarks towards Democratic Rep. John Murtha. Ms. Schmidt in essence called Murtha a “coward!” John Murtha is a decorated Vietnam Veteran and yet Jean Schmidt, who hasn’t been in the military, is insulting his courage! This reminds me of the cowardly Republican attack on Vietnam Vet John Kerry, whose purple hearts, bronze star and silver star speak for themselves regarding his courage and leadership. And it reminds me of the attacks the Republicans made on the patriotism of Vietnam Vet Max Cleland of Georgia, who have his limbs for America.
Why do the Republicans hate Vietnam Vets so much? When so few of the current Republican leadership have served, how do they DARE to question the loyalty of people like Kerry, Cleland and Murtha, all of whom served their country bravely and have been decorated for their service. The Republican attacks on Vietnam Vets MUST stop! America should be proud of our Vets, not insult them the way the Republicans have been doing. I demand that Bush and the entire Republican party apologize for their disgusting attacks on Vietnam Vets. Their partisanship is inexcusible. Honor our vets regardless of party! Stop attacking American vets!
that’s been clear from the get-go (shoddy roll call reporting notwithstanding).
I just happen to be on the side that says this is an opportunity to withdraw now — which clearly isn’t going to happen.
Is anyone else watching this house debate,…I am going nutso here, shouting at the dems…vote will be coming soon..
Well it was voted down as expected by unaminous vote….now they are taking a roll call…
The Howard Resolution
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.
Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.
The Murtha Resolution
Whereas Congress and the American People have not been shown clear, measurable progress toward establishment of stable and improving security in Iraq or of a stable and improving economy in Iraq, both of which are essential to “promote the emergence of a democratic government”;
Whereas additional stabilization in Iraq by U, S. military forces cannot be achieved without the deployment of hundreds of thousands of additional U S. troops, which in turn cannot be achieved without a military draft;
Whereas more than $277 billion has been appropriated by the United States Congress to prosecute U.S. military action in Iraq and Afghanistan;
Whereas, as of the drafting of this resolution, 2,079 U.S. troops have been killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom;
Whereas U.S. forces have become the target of the insurgency,
Whereas, according to recent polls, over 80% of the Iraqi people want U.S. forces out of Iraq;
Whereas polls also indicate that 45% of the Iraqi people feel that the attacks on U.S. forces are justified;
Whereas, due to the foregoing, Congress finds it evident that continuing U.S. military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the people of Iraq, or the Persian Gulf Region, which were cited in Public Law 107-243 as justification for undertaking such action;
Therefore be it
1) Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in
2) Congress assembled,
3) That:
4) Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is
5) hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable
6) date.
7) Section 2. A quick-reaction U.S. force and an over-the-horizon presence of U.S Marines
8) shall be deployed in the region.
9) Section 3 The United States of America shall pursue security and stability in Iraq
10) through diplomacy.
Those lying sacks of shit corrupt flunkies posing as “journalist” NEED TO LEARN TO READ!
funny the chair called the vote on 57*2*. They’re really messed up. Enjoyed the byplay between the vets. Mutual respect, real disagreement, unlike those who just show up and collect their paycheck.
Murtha made a good call, and they all know it.
Hayword (R – AZ) not Howard.
Damn it all.
Great Posts here thanks for clarifying the resolutions, some of the reps had a hard time keeping track of what was going on. So hang in there.
This has been the most exciting CSPAN report from the house I’ve ever seen.
He’s the one who looks the like used-car salesman on the very late-night TV ads, “Have I got a deal for you!”
Am I safe in assuming that is his modus operandi as well?
Quickly scanning the internet it appears this is the Honorable (sic) Rep. Hayworth’s normal operating pattern.
HMMMM?
I wonder what Schmidt and her heroic Marine think of the General?
It was almost as good as my favorite TV show the Prime Ministers Question and Answer hour.
The Republicans looked like bullies and idiots for putting a resolution on the floor that they themselves called a bad bill and asked that people vote against their own bill.
Idiots. They looked like idiots. They looked like bullies… let let Jean Schmidt open her mouth… and they allowed the Democrats a platform to hammer them on for hours.
Idiots.
last night, I became infuriated! Tell me if what I think I saw is the way it went:
The vote was given 15 minutes and the C-Span clock starts ticking forward. The “scorecard” pretty quickly shows 9 Repubs voting with the Dems and 29 Repubs and 6 Dems “NV,” non-voting, I assume, as in not on the floor.
At exactly the 15 minute mark the Dem votes were 202 and the Repub votes 198. Then it just kept going… Slowly the number of Repub Nay votes switches… 9… 7… 5. Hey, is that arm-twisting going on?
The number of Repubs not on the floor goes down…29…26…on down to 22. Is someone yelling on the phone, “Get your ass up here and vote!”
After what seemed like 45 minutes, the Repubs get 2 or 4 votes ahead and ta-da, the vote is final — in their favor. So, calling a 15 minute Roll Call vote actually means the voting will go on until the Repubs win?
Looking at the language of the resolution, “… that US troops should be withdrawn immediately…,” Hubby said that at the last possible minute, all the Dems should have switched their votes to make it unanomous. I mean, can’t some Repub go home this Thanksgiving and say, “I voted to bring your son/father/brother home immediately but the Dems were opposed…”?
The twists and turns of these proceedings can get mightly confusing. So please correct me where I’m wrong about this.
I have no idea what the Republicans thought they were doing with this.
I’ll bet there will be a number of polls conducted over the weekend as both sides try to get a feel for how this played.