“WASHINGTON — Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, likened the war in Iraq to Vietnam yesterday and said, ”The idea that the United States is going to win the war in Iraq is just plain wrong,” comments that drew immediate fire from Republicans.” [ Yahoo.news (AP)]
That short blurb points to the trap laid by many pundits & talking heads: equating Iraq with Vietnam. I am surprised and disappointed that Dr. Dean made that unfortunate – and highly inaccurate – comparison. He is by no means alone, but in his position he should damn well know better.
Better to point to this administration’s utter failure to follow the established and effective “Powell (Weinberger) Doctrine”. Citing Powell necessarily leads to a discussion of the reason behind the policy: 241 dead Marines in Lebanon, on Reagan’s watch, while attempting to insert the U.S. between competing factions in a civil war in the Middle East, with no set policy or exit strategy.
Sound familiar?
At what point does the party (and everyone else) realize that “Iraq” and “Vietnam” do not belong together in the same sentence? We need to make every effort to remove that comparison from any future policy speeches. Stop the tail from wagging the dog.
||History||
The thing that history teaches is that history should be taught.
Quotes below are excerpted from Colin Powell’s book on the Beirut Memorial site:
Not only did Weinberger want to sell his guidelines inside the administration; he wanted to go public that summer. We started considering possible speaking platforms, but White House political operatives nixed any such controversial speech until the presidential election was over. After Reagan’s reelection, Weinberger addressed the National Press Club on November 28. I went with him to hear him describe the tests he recommended “when we are weighing the use of U.S. combat forces abroad.”
(l) Commit only if our or our allies’ vital interests are at stake.
(2) If we commit, do so with all the resources necessary to win.
(3) Go in only with clear political and military objectives.
(4) Be ready to change the commitment if the objectives change, since wars rarely stand still.
(5) Only take on commitments that can gain the support of the American people and the Congress.
(6) Commit U.S. forces only as a last resort.
So the reason half the country is comparing Iraq to Vietnam rather than actually read and understand history is? Again, Colin Powell:
What I saw from my perch in the Pentagon was America sticking its hand into a thousand year-old hornet’s nest with the expectation that our mere presence might pacify the hornets. When ancient ethnic hatreds reignited in the former Yugoslavia in 1991 and well-meaning Americans thought we should “do something” in Bosnia, the shattered bodies of Marines at the Beirut airport were never far from my mind in arguing for caution. There are times when American lives must be risked and lost. Foreign policy cannot be paralyzed by the prospect of casualties. But lives must not be risked until we can face a parent or a spouse or a child with a clear answer to the question of why a member of that family had to die. To provide a “symbol” or a”presence” is not good enough.
For all those engaging in the debate over the Iraq war I would suggest going to the Memorial page to learn how our policy of engagement went from valid to vacuous under G.W. Bush. As you read the names, and watch those pictures scrolling across the screen every night, remember those unarmed and unprepared Marines in Beirut.
Another “Resolute Republican” president, in another time made exactly the same miscalculation in Lebanon in 1983. We don’t have to travel back to 1963 to find the correct analogy to Iraq.
Let’s be careful what we say out there, and stay out of the jungle.
I am so f*cking pissed over this comparison I can’t see straight. Why, why, why, do people insist on comparing the two conflicts? God save us from talking heads, pundits, and f*cking idiot savants with absolutely no sense of history.
As if time stopped in the intervening 40 years between wars. As if Weinberger never made the speech, Powell never instituted the policy, Bush I actually held to the policy, and Gulf I never happened. For or against that first dance in the desert, our people came home in far greater numbers, with far less damage.
The policy was, and is, valid. Had this administration been gifted with at least one partial brain among them, and simply “stayed the (policy) course” we may not be having this “conversation”.
A war is a war, and worse when built on lies. Below I posted what Michael Reagan said…that he should be hung for treason. How dare he say that.
I disagree with you…it is time to speak out.
Where in what I’ve written do you suppose I’m against speaking out, or for that matter, ending the debacle?
My point is simple: politicians and military planners – including of course Powell – did not develop the doctrine in a vacuum. Iraq bears far more resemblance to conflicts in Lebanon, Kosovo, and Somalia than the Vietnam war. And post 9/11, points to the abject failure of the administration to deal with global terrorism. But go ahead, get “bogged down” in the Vietnam argument.
Rove will love you.
And please don’t say to me “Rove will love you.” That is just silly, and I resent it.
Dean compared it to Vietnam in that the number of deaths will be rising if we keep saying we can win. He is right.
It was not a comparison about why we were there or why we are here or anything like that.
Please don’t talk down to me.
Dean compared it to Vietnam in that the number of deaths will be rising if we keep saying we can win. He is right.
The number of deaths will keep rising if we don’t wear seatbelts too, but we don’t compare 1963 trucks to 2005 SUVs. And the context of his interview was precisely “why we were there”, and how to resolve the conflict.
Not talking down to you, just a sarcastic bastard this morning. No offense meant.
I didn’t hear the comments being made. I just saw the exploding heads from the rightwing side of the blogosphere at http://www.memeorandum.com (a great site, btw).
The RWB (right wing blogosphere)will attack Dean, Kerry and any Clinton for any reason whatsoever. Did Dean make a direct comparison to Vietnam? I don’t know. But he doesn’t have to for the RWB to say he did.
And every time they do, people send the DNC cash.
I can live with that.
On a personal note, with public opinion going against the occupation, perhaps comparisons to Vietnam can now be made. Personally, I think contrasting the occupation to Gulf War One and the Powell Doctrine are more appropriate. People may start to ask questions about the competence of the GWOT. Also, on a snarky note, Bush hates being compared to daddy and coming up short.
Bush hates being compared to daddy and coming up short.
Yep. And as fast a cash flows with the Vietnam analogy, it would positively gush if he made the comparison to Poppa, and the failed GWOT. Having lived through the “era”, I would much rather educate and foster public understanding, than re-live 45-year-old battles and further polarize the electorate.
Vietnam is irrelevant to the debate, and invoking those memories will do nothing to bring us together. Better to ask Bush if he’s seen Bin Laden lately.
A four for that last paragraph alone. I think the question of competence needs bringing up more and more. And the question about “seen Bin Laden lately?” makes a great soundbite on the incompetency of this administration. And it forces the administration into a long involved (not made for TV) response.