Update [2006-1-20 5:30AM PST by Oui]:
I’m blushing now!
Thank you for all kind words and expressions of confidence.
The criticism added by some will be taken at heart.
It’s when a community reaches out and shows a close knit that warmth spreads.
(((hugs))) to all!
I don’t accept a smear of my integrity, it’s become very personal and I repeat: “I take great offense to this bullshit on BooMan Tribune and European Tribune”. If you have no judgement of character after some 200 written diaries and thousands of comments, there is no place for someone attacking my character and sticking by it.
Accusation by MarekNYC: Oui is
“Completely unreliable as a source on anything dealing with Israel, Jews, Zionism, or antisemitism.”
Over on Booman Tribune Oui posted a diary attacking Pat Lang’s piece on Iran and the Holocaust conference. He then added a comment with multiple links attacking Israel from a site entitled Revisionist History with the question added on ‘Is this antisemitism.’ Well gee, if the name of the site didn’t clue him in then perhaps a glance at some of the stuff there would have –
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudic.html
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wwtwo.html
Just two weeks ago Oui linked to this crap and when I objected said that some people might object to the anti-Zionism [sic] and said that he saw it as just another ‘Jewish point of view.’
Eventually he apologized but now he’s done it again. At the very least Oui is clearly incapable of distinguishing between honest criticism of Israel and that motivated by racism. Or he doesn’t have any problem with racism, or he is a racist himself. I don’t know which it is.
What I do know is that I find it highly objectionable to have white supremacist sites linked to as reliable sources and that even if he is simply unable to recognize the difference between racism and criticism, he is completely unreliable as a source on anything dealing with Israel, Jews, Zionism, or antisemitism. It also happens to make him a perfect poster child for the canard that criticism of Israel equals antisemitism or that those who criticize it are either indifferent to antisemitism or racists themselves.
by MarekNYC on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 04:20:11 PM PDT
Just a bit below the fold …
Manipulation of the facts to smear me because:
- The diary I wrote was a rebuttal to a diary by Pat Lang on Iran. I made an objection to the generalizations for the Islamic World and Arab nations, which leads to a demonization of a large population. The holocaust discussion was a diversion by MarekNYC’s comments. A nice hijack of the discussion intended for my diary.
- MarekNYC’s objection was for links I used in a comment. The intent of the comment was clear and I did not need the support of linked articles to make a statement. It’s a normal practise of mine to add a number of links to articles I find through google or yahoo.
- The pages MarekNYC has astutely presented ARE NOT the pages of my links. I was unaware of the extended pages on the site and through the first hit combined several articles on assassinations led by the Israeli government and the Mossad agency, the topic of my comment. See the version of the same content but with the links prepared from other sources in diary published a day later at European Tribune, the content was my focus.
- The “this crap” link was removed from a diary a few weeks ago, I apologized and the apology was accepted. The vengeance apparently was not settled. So I get a renewed punishment.
- The fact that I am not aware of a Hoffman or ever heard of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion should be to my credit, as I have never bothered in the past with any anti-semite propaganda.
See the original links in my comment where MarekNYC searched the site for complete different pages.
Result of this bullshit is a smear of my character, which will last for months within a small community we’re blogging. I do understand the hesitation of Soj to even speak out on the topic relating to Israel in Pat Lang’s diary.
As I don’t intend to be chased away from BooMan’s Place by some nitwit, I do find it more than annoying that such a smear is left without a sanction or warning. Persons have been reprimanded for less!
I sincerely appreciate the support of many here at BooMan”s Place and the specific comment from BooMan personally.
Previous diary of mine on the same topic ::
● NYT & Patrick Lang Beating the War Drums ¶ Exacerbates Fear of Iran
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There you have another example of Oui, the racist and anti-semite!
I regret any part I may have inadvertantly played in any of the hijacking. My intent was to bring into the discussion the forces behind the negativity and inherent prejudice. I think that’s the only way to work through the arguments that further exploit and injure the Jewish people by misapplying those ugly names.
If at any time, in any diary here, that I happen to stray too far just bring it to my attention for correction.
I think the false accusations as were thrown at you are damaging to all of us.
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It’s difficult to stop and it is an unfortunate virus as I recall, when I was posting @dKos in the past.
I needed to escape from the hijacked discussion to set the record straight, and to enforce my – our – disgust of such an easy accusation from a passer-by. I’m always open for fair criticism, but don’t touch my integrity here @BooMan’s Place — it’s my home where I eat, sleep … and dream!
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion.”
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Did you see I’ve now ben red-baited on your diary here?
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I did spread some 4‘s after reading through the comments.
Groupthink as excuse for the Iraqi Shock and Awe invasion and occupation. Rewarded with the Freedom Medal.
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion.”
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Thanks, & yea, it was in Lang’s diary where I was accused of sounding “like the Daily Worker writing about Stalin in the 1930s.”
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I usually link a reply to one of his recent comments without disturbing someone’s diary,
or if it’s personal, drop an email — admin at boomantribune dot com
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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Oui, you are being quite unfair.
You posted not one, but several diaries which were borderline antisemitic, as was detailed to you in the comments, and you did not apologize for providing links to obviously hateful sites.
You claim that ignorance is a good excuse to discuss the Protocols of the Elders of Sion candidly. After being informed in very explicit terms the history of these protocols, you did not post a comment or an update to correct your diary in any way. You thus move from (possibly excusable) ignorance to willful hatemongering.
It is possible to criticize Israel’s policies while acknowledging that the protocols are an antisemitic hoax and that the reality of the shoah should not even be disucssed, but that’s not what you are doing.
So I supported MarekNYC’s comments and I will keep on doing so. I value your contributions on many topics, but on this one you are absolutely wrong.
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Here is the link — A Sophisticated Approach
Bullshit Jerome – get your facts straight before coming here to add to the insult of MarekNYC. That’s the reason of this diary to stop the creeping slander. I have great respect for you and your writing, I always will, but you are way off base on this one. Please don’t make things worse.
You claim that ignorance is a good excuse to discuss the Protocols of the Elders of Sion candidly. After being informed in very explicit terms the history of these protocols, you did not post a comment or an update to correct your diary in any way. You thus move from (possibly excusable) ignorance to willful hatemongering.
I appreciate the unequivocal support from the BooTribbers here, where we have shared sorrow and joy. My personality does not allow for any hidden agenda, so stop these accusations NOW Jerome!
You are welcome to read the views of my BooMates who have read many, many diaries and comments.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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Oui, I don’t think you are antisemitic – you do have a history here and on ET, which I certainly know and appreciate, but I am telling you that your recent diaries on the topic can easily be misconstrued and they detract attention from what are the more important issues of Israel’s policies, which MUST be criticised.
I said your comments were borderline (not way out of line), and I still think you are wrong to defend your “candid” approach to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. There are things you simply should not create ambiguity about.
I am commenting on this openly, and will keep on doing so. I don’t think it’s slander, but I’ll open myself to the judgement of the community.
When you say There are things you simply should not create ambiguity about. apparently in regard to a reference the protocols do you mean instead that one should not attempt to discuss their role in history?
The Holcaust
is the name applied to the systematic state-sponsored persecution and genocide of various ethnic, religious and political groups during World War II by Nazi Germany and collaborators.
In his arguement Merek insits that
Now this to me seems complete ignorance of what the Holocaust was, or plain racism.
To just say that the holocaust involved ONLY Jews and that the number of exterminated were ONLY six millons instead fo the 12 million that perished there is beyond me. Either way, Mereck is guilty of what he blamed Oui: he is not reliable.
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BBC News – July 25, 2000
Roma facts
source: Patrin
… an International Romany Union (IRU) spokesman said that the congress would discuss payments to the Roma from a $5bn fund recently set up by the German government to compensate those forced into slave labour by the Nazis.
Analysts say that previous efforts to strengthen the gypsies’ position have failed because of a lack of organised leadership. The International Roma Union tries to redress that problem by speaking on the gypsies’ behalf, but many of the delegates themselves are unelected.
Those attending the congress include prominent gypsy activists, singers and actors as well as the self-styled King of the Romanies, Florian Cioba, who is from Romania.
A Romanian school troupe
revives traditional gypsy culture
The BBC’s Ray Furlong says that another issue at the conference will be the standardisation of the Roma language, which is related to the ancient Sanskrit tongue of India, from where the gypsies migrated 1,000 years ago.
Now, most live in eastern Europe, mainly Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and Turkey.
Croatia? No Roma survived!
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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You rock Oui!
And if anybody even attempts to call you a racist, you can always call this Jew to put them in thier place.
As far as I am concerned you dont have a bit of racism n you.
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I’m starting to have fun again and find joy in blogging.
Exceptional background information supplied by BBC World radio every day ::
Hamdija Seferović belongs to Roma ethnic minority
BBC did background to this story today, as the Roma are a minority of less than 1% of the Croatian population. A breakthrough for the Roma!
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion.”
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Yeah! You can enjoy it until the World Cup starts. Then I will make you misserable. When Argentina and Holland start playing you better not even show up here. :-))
If Cameroon can beat Brazil, then Holland can beat Argentina. 😛
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Lionel Messi
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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Agueros the new kid. 17 years old, and he kicks ass
He was in the sub 20 there. Both him and Messi should be there.
Can’t wait!!!!
I’m guessing you all will have hosting duties at World Cup open threads, yes? Ish talking already–I love it!
:<)
It disturbs me when anyone uses comments to hijack any diary for their own purposes. It has happened unfortunately before here and on other blogs…usually it passes.
I am no longer reading EuroTrib because of comments by one of their principals. It is regrettable that some feel the need to to make news or political issue differences personal. It is also regrettable that such personal comments directly impact the readership and participation of any blog.
I have never found your diaries to be anything except very informative. You have my support here at BT and at DailyKos…just say the word.
Feel free to respond by email, but I am surprised by this message and would like to know more. What comment by what principal of ET? Either it’s me, in which case I’s like to know about it to actually resolve the issue, or it’s someone else and I’d like to know about it – and try to do something about it.
It was your extensive comments and an exchange we had in a diary a few months ago on this site regarding Welshman and Soj.
I do not read several of diarists here or on DailyKos as result, do not comment or rate their comments, etc. including yours. I do not and will not read EuroTrib as a result of that dialogue. And this is not the diary or comment thread for this but is indicative.
This is the same comment that I made at that time and reiterate here. “I choose not to engage in dialogue regarding the matter.”
Thanks for responding.
My support and friendship. What can I do to help you out?
Sorry this happened. Your diaries are always chock full of information and reading them has made me more informed.
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Is plentiful … thank you.
I needed to get rid of some anger, and meet up with my BooMates.
Just Need A Smile!
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion.”
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Smiles you want?? Go check out my worst hair cut mugshot ever… in the closed cafe/social. Sure to be a gutbuster LOL
ACCCCK
i can’t email you – you have no addy posted.
: (
do you have aim?
Oui, I’m sorry that happened, but we all know you well enough that we would never believe such a statement.
(You should go see Janet’s hair picture, but it’s really the expression on her face that makes me laugh…)
If a duck shits in Zanzibar, Oui, I can count on you to tell me on whose petunia it shat and what curses were hurled at it from the kitchen window, and all before the odor rises to the rose bush.
who can judge each poster’s credibility and worth by reading what he or she writes over time. You do quite well by that measure, Oui, and I’m glad you’re here.
Chin up!
I’m so sorry to see you hurt by this ‘nitwits’ attack. It’s hard to ignore this sort of thing. Best to just walk away and let them spew. Nobody here takes a personal attack like this seriously. The attacker is always the one with a problem. Unfortunately, an interest in politics arouses an emotional response.
Now get some peace for yourself.
Oui, in a legitimate effort to clear your name you have called your critic a ‘nitwit’. This is not fair. Your critic’s point was valid. If he had had a longer acquaintance with you he would not have drawn such harsh conclusions, but you did link to truly vile sources.
It would be best to concede your error, rather than call him a nitwit.
All of that said, he was wrong to assume the worst of you, as all of us know.
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Nitwit as opposed to being called a racist and anti-semite.
Like I said and have explained sufficiently, the diary was hijacked and the pages MarekNYC illustrated in his accusation were NOT the pages I linked. Furthermore, MarekNYC used another blog, European Tribune, to continue his personal attack on me, that’s totally unacceptable.
The Israeli Terrorist State and its Mossad Assassins, same article could have been sourced elsewhere, it’s an opinion of a Nazi camp survivor. Author of article is Dr. Israel Shahak.
As I meant no malice, I will not be forced to defend myself against such false accusation. My diary was not about the holocaust, but on the media propaganda on Iran. I am fortunate many BooTribbers understood that perfectly.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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Heck I thought your handling of that person’s smear effort was remarkably restrained. I wouldn’t have been as nice.
All the while the war drums continue to beat:

Vidcap courtesy of Lenin’s Tomb. Cernig of Newshog has an interesting series on the propaganda regarding Iran: Nuclear Iran – Part One, The Back Story, Nuclear Iran. Part Two – Sanctions or What?, Nuclear Iran Part Three – Exploring the Military Option.
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Et tu Brutus
I appreciate your remarks here and @ET – thanks.
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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But that comment is beyond comprehension.
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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It is a shame that it is so difficult to criticize Israel without being acused of being anti-semitic. it sometimes seems that there are some kind of bloggo police just waiting for anyone to say a bad word about the place.
Criticism of Israel and its policies is not anti-semitic. I have even been accused of being anti-semitic for making statements supporting Palestinians and Arabs, who themselves are semites!
I have no patience with the self-appointed anti-semitism cops. In a class debate over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I was accused to my face of “equating bulldozing houses with blowing up children” when, of course, I had said no such thing.
That type of shit was really common at my school unfortunately. If you were anti-Zionist, that made you anti-Jewish.
We’ve all known you long enough, and seen enough of your work, to know that you would never link to bad sources on purpose. If there’s one thing I associate with you, dear Oui, it’s good intentions.
Not only good intentions – the best kind of integrity I can think of, always mindful of this community. Calling Oui a racist is pure bull..
Oui, you are a valued and highly respected member of this community, and your contributions are extremely valuable.
I seldom comment, much to my embarrassment, in your diaries, primarily because I am so busy reading through the sources that you provide. You have greatly heightened my awareness of the world with your tireless work.
Have a glass of Absinthe on me and know that I am honored to know you.
Peace my friend
That is the problem with Oui’s diaries, actually, with his comments, too. There is always so much damn information in them, and all those links, that by the time you get through reading all that, an hour has passed, and you discover that you are just too informed to comment.
But I will try to do better.
And again.
My only complaint – information overload 😉
photo or two of a cute kitten somewhere in all those links. 😉
You are irreplacable
I’ll start with a partial apology. First of all for my tone – not in the Eurotrib comment quoted above, but for the original ones in Oui’s diary. Secondly, there is no evidence that Oui is a racist himself. But I stand by the rest of the substance of my statements – that is that Oui is either incapable of recognizing even extreme antisemitism, or he is indifferent to it and that therefore he is not a reliable source on issues relating to Jews.
The sources that Oui linked to were on a disgusting hate site, an obvious one. My anger was indeed partially the result of the fact that this was not the first such action by Oui. The idea that that antisemites can constitute legitimate sources for diatribes against Jews, even if they are addressing real issues, simply baffles me. We are talking about the equivalent of linking to your local KKK site and picking out an article about drugs or gangs among blacks.
I wonder how many of you would be indignant at a commenter’s anger at someone who prefaced links to a KKK site with the question ‘is this racist’, how many would find it blatantly unfair for someone to be upset by a diarist’s describing KKK racist diatribes made up of a series of out of context quotes from blacks as ‘another black point of view’. If a poster you generally admired had done such things would you all be so eager to uncritically defend him? Ask yourselves that, and ask yourselves just what exactly such an uncritical defense says about you.
And that is that, I have no intention of continuing this debate, I doubt it would be productive and I see no point in flame wars.
I would be interested in continuing a discussion on the subject in a new diary at any time you choose. I think all sides of this subject need examined in an objective manner.
You are very well known here at booman, Oui. I’ve never doubted your good intentions on any diary or comment, so it’s certainly not likely I’d change my opinion of you or your work based on one blogger’s diary, and especially one I’m not familiar with.
I’ve basically quit dKos months ago (other than to recommend friend’s diaries) due to my low tolerance of intrablogger bickering and thread hijacking. There’s already too much to keep track of as it is without getting involved in this BS.
I hope you are able to avoid getting sucked any further into the intrablogger quicksand!!
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Thank you my friend, you are so right, I never get involved in any such fight. I appreciate and commend the BooTribbers, that the hijack did not lead to a rating war! At dKos it became difficult to keep each diary from being hijacked, as many jerks start off with an unhealthy dose of criticism.
This is my home and it was devastating to see it happen in my very own diary. Recently at European Tribune there was a clash that needed some introspective repairs. My single comment ::
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I learned my early lessons from the school playground. A spat is between two persons, don’t butt in to interfere, let it be a fair fight. Problems arise when others start bullying, or join the fight in defense of one side.
It happens at dKos with troll rating wars. Sometimes I see it happen here in diaries with high quantity of comments and with low content contribution to the original diary. Want to fight? Write your own diary and open the discussion …
I don’t see a group process at ET, very similar to troubles of cohesion in the EU. Each writer has his/her own bigotry, the bloggers at ET will keep the extremes within check and everyone will have a lot of freedom in expression of ideas and be able to contribute to a great site.
Attack Jérôme and other frontpagers? Sure, they are human like us aren’t they.
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
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Chile Moves to the Left Michelle Bachelet 1st Female President! Updated
by Oui on Tue Jan 10th, 2006 at 04:52:16 PM PDT
Off topic comments to a diary happens at EuroTrib more often, that’s the reason I contribute there less.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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I have always admired your writing, Oui – it is a thick soup of information that never fails to satisfy my need to know more.
This particular episode reminds me of what I like least about the political blogs: the widespread leakage of “oil of conflict (and hostility, suspicion, or hate, as it will)”. The defenses against that, I think, are difficult in the absence of a community. There is one here, and you are part of it, a very salient part.
As in days of old, before the written word, and since, the storytellers would have at least one who doubted most times.
I think it was not doubt, but envy, of the one who was listened to ; )
I comment little these days, but I always read your work sir.
As always, it is a great pleasure.
Peace friend.
Oui, Your reputation here stands unchanged. If occasional links to unsavory sites are the measure of accuracy, I’m afraid that most, if not all, would be deemed “inaccurate”. Now, if I could only find the time to digest all the information in your posts.
At least you take the trouble to make links – some of us won’t work that hard. It’s usually jealousy that motivates this kind of thing. Hope you’re feeling better this morning.
You will always have my utmost and deepest respect here Oui. Just keep doing what you are doing.
Oh Oui, I can not say how terribly sorry I am for this time for you and for all of us. I for one think I know your heart. I do believe you had no thoughts as to be malicious. I want those who are very sensitive to their own mind-set to become open-minded.
I never want you to be put down for your articles. I learn so much and that is why I am here after all…to learn. I am an adult. I am quite able to detect between bull shit and farce and the truth. I think some have their feelings on their sleeve and dare anyone to help them disburse them for that is not the place to wear them.
I love all ppl here in this site. I do not look at their faith, race or beliefs as to who they are in person. This to me is the problem with some today, anyhow. I, myself, sometime ago, almost crossed over the line I drew in the sand for my own behavior, not boomans. I apologized to all for those words, for I could not take them back and to explain them would dig my hole deeper than I wanted.
I can only hold you and all of us to the higher standards that most adults demand. If I can be blunt enough to say, it is adolescent to demand a fight. We are adults here and I think we all want and demand that from us all.
So let it be known, I enjoy your research and deem it necessary to know the rest of the story. If what I have said in any way has hurt anyone feelings, please accept my sincere apology. Hugs, Oui, and to all.
Anyone who knows your work knows that you ARE NOT a racist. Oui, we who know you know how talented you are at gleaning nuggets of truth from a variety of sources. That is your style and your strength. We love you for it. You are also a prolific writer and must expect the occasional baseless attack, I suppose. That being said, please know that there are many here who appreciate your work and appreciate you.
I have no doubts about the quality of your character and mind and always enjoy your posts.
That being said, I think there is a valuable lesson to be taken from this unfortunate event. All of us who read your posts count on you to supply us good information from good sources. This puts a burden on you to assure that your sources are in fact good ones. This is perhaps unfair but it is a necessary component of the trust we place in you.
Well, what’s the source in this instance?
The Israeli human rights activist/writer? or the hate site where the article Oui linked to appeared?
Obviously, the same article could have been linked to on a less controversial site & this particular charge wouldn’t have been made.
That is exactly my point. Good content can be undermined by a bad source.
If one were to link, for example, to an article about immigration on VDare and I knew nothing about the author of the article, that link is going to affect my attitude toward the article. I have no way to know whether the article is at the site because the author is in sympathy with them or whether there is some totally unrelated reason why the article is there.
I think we’re getting at the same thing from different approaches.
When the source is the same — author, article, content — & available in two different places (thus possibly contextualized differently), then criticism of the source by its contextual associations rather than the actual content itself — is intellectually lazy & dishonest. We see this type of smear coming from all sides of the partisan camps.
It doesn’t matter where it is located. Taking an article by Hoffmann on Israel or Jews is like taking one by David Duke on blacks or Fred Phelps on gays. All the location does is make it blindingly obvious that what you are dealing with is a vicious racist. Would it be intellectually lazy to point out that there is something very wrong with linking to David Duke’s opinions about blacks? Would it be a smear to say so? Shahak is in a different category – that’s more like linking to Pat Buchanan on gays unless you are lining to a pre-nineties article by Shahak – i.e. back when he was a sane hard left critic of Israel, before he went off the deep end.
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I have written a new diary titled: “The H-word ¶ A Personal Story”, just need some time to make the finishing touches. In the Netherlands, I have personally never met anti-semitism and I have some friends who are orthodox Jews. Yearly a Dutch organization CIDI publishes a report on the incidents, seldom of a major nature. Since 911 attacks, the muslim population have been discriminated and abused on the streets, jobs and in the media. So OBL has succeeded, with the help of the neocon policy, to spread the seed of hatred for the next generations.
de dokwerker
Reviewing the historical development of the H-word, my conclusion is, from now on I will avoid the term and return to the Dutch description in WWII: de Jodenvervolging or persecution of the Jews. The abuse by parties with another agenda makes its use a liability for smears and labeling. The mob rules, I have no stomach for such fights.
I have recovered from the brutal accusation, and I don’t understand the audacity of the individual to show up in this thread, and joyfully entertain the BooTribbers by participating in a discussion of community spirit. Another likely attempt to hijack my diary, and take the discussion a few diaries back.
The Nation March 9, 2005 — Cathy Young distorted my [Eric Alterman – Oui] argument to accuse me of anti-semitism and self-hatred, using an ellipsis to make it appear as if I were describing the founding of the Jewish state as a “catastrophe” rather than attributing that view to Palestinians and their Arab supporters. She went even further, insisting that by acknowledging that Palestinians and their supporters perhaps had reason to be less than thrilled with the creation of Israel, I was actually–I kid you not–blaming “long-dead Holocaust victims” and arguing that “every Muslim is justified in viewing every Jew as the enemy.”
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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and put your big girl panties on or your big boy briefs..
There’s a lot of mean spirited people out there roaming the blogs- I’ve met my share of them . One needs a thick skin and don’t take anything personal.
Hey Oui. Wife and children are Jewish. Based on everything I’ve ever read by you (a lot) I’d never suspect you of being an anti-semite. Take no offense to your writings.
Personally, I rarely ever address the Israel-Palestinian issue on line, or anthing even tangentially related to it, because I find that many on each side of the debate are willing to resort to character assassination without reason. It is just one of those things. So I don’t find it productive to read or write about.
But don’t feel bad. Keep doing what you are doing.
Oui,
Just wanted to add my support even though I admit I didn’t read the original diary or comments. I always find your comments and diaries helpful and I’m sorry that this happened to you.
The first rule of online discussions in never to explain and never to apologize (except for factual errors).
You can never win an argument with those who have an ax to grind. And once things have gotten into personal attacks there isn’t even a factual basis for discourse. Opponents are free to impute any sort of motives to their targets. Sort of like “when did you stop beating your wife”.
Just move on.
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In the diary @ET I agreed the link was ill-founded and removed it from diary content, replaced it with another source. I apologized and apology was accepted … or maybe it wasn’t after all?
His comment yesterday was way over the top, farfetched and misinterpreted. No need for an apology or further defense after such a smear on my integrity. I know the Internet is a minefield, whenever you search for Israeli or Mossad sources, there is more desinformation and propaganda than true historical facts.
But my message in the latest diaries was on Iran and media warmongering, I really had no discussion about the holocaust. Pat Lang’s diary discussed the holocaust and the Iranian president.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence. Everywhere I look I see women being mistreated and their oppression justified in the name of religion."
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I was offline for a few days ago and this is the first chance I could really find out what I missed in a sustained way.
What the hell happened?!?!
That’s a rhetorical question, but I’m just shocked at the accusation. You’re such a valued and respected member of this community. Your diaries and comments are a wealth of information.
I don’t want you to re-live this any more than you have, but I just hope this was one big misunderstanding. I admire your rather restrained response; I don’t think I could be so magnanimous.
I’m so sorry. Hugs.
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Et tu Brutus
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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Uhm, What everyone else said! 🙂
(Hope you won’t dissapear from ET, but won’t blame you if you do. I know where to find you!)
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Thank you for kind words.
I definitely will take a time-out, I can’t blog in a hostile atmosphere or where distrust is just ’round the corner. What am I to do? Avoid issues because of a mindset about Oui at ET?
The remarks by Jerome confirms my apprehension, and he is the best of the bunch. I’m not going to battle prejudice.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
Please, Oui, do not ever leave from this place. I can only speak for myself here, but I want you here. Just know this! hugs back to ya, Kiddo. Like I said, I think, I know your heart, and you would not hurt anyone intentionally ever. Keep giving us the information we all need to make our lives better informed.
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You know I enjoy BooMan’s Place and the fine contributions across spectrum of book review, FBC diaries, gardening, personal support & comfort and the political activism.
This is the spot where amongst friends, you can discuss and evaluate criticism, be informative and push forward the community goals. No matter how varied in breadth the goals may be, there is always a sense of working together and not opposing one another.
This has more than abundantly, once again, been demonstrated by all kind comments. Like I said above in diary:
“I don’t intend to be chased away from BooMan’s Place.”
It will take more than one big fella to carry me off the blog! That’s serious.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
Oui,
You have blessed Booman with your presence, your spirit and soul showing in all that you do… Your actions speak volumes of your character. There are times when one must take a deep breath, and realize the faults of the human race, are not fixable. Your passion to help the human race top notch, but some things are beyond your control. I appreciate you standing up for yourself, appreciate what you do for Booman; most importantly I appreciate you. Wander off into the beauty of mother nature, and recharge yourself. Then do what makes you happy….
Ricky Nelson said it best in GARDEN PARTY:
“But it’s all right now
I learned my lesson well
You see, ya can’t please everyone
So ya got to please yourself”
Peace be with you my friend, may plenty of hugs and kisses come your way as well. :>) EtJ
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Beautiful words bestowed, needed to edit diary with special note.
Mental recovery has been quick, thanks to a hell of a community here @BooMan’s. I am very pleased to be part of a group of friends, and as I have said, this feels like home. I’m glad an outsider, too quick with a judgment, couldn’t split the community, instead brought people together as it should.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
I seem to have missed the intense stuff that went on in the comments section of Oui’s perevious diary despite the fact that I read the diary myself, followed some, but not all of the links, and found myself (uncharacteristically) disagreeing with a fair amount of Oui’s perspective on Pat Lang’s take, while simultaneously agreeing with some of Oui’s points about Iran. I thought about comenting but it was late in the day for me when I read the thing, any commentary I would have made would have wound up hopelessly complicated, and in the end promised myself I’d revisit the thread the following day to see how the various discussions evolved.
Now, after this diary where the full brouhaha that I misssed is brought to the fore, I feel a duty to speak out.
First and foremost, I found nothing in Oui’s commentary that I would define as either anti-semetic or racist. My off the cuff thought about MarekNYC after reading a few of his comments was that he/she seemed a bit thin-skinned and perhaps too eager to jump to conclusions based on emotionalized impression rather than on simple factual analysis of what was being said.
Secondly, I find the argument that if someone links to an article that appears on a website that might be known as a racist or anti-semetic or anti-anyone else type site that this automatically implies the linker is a racist as patently absurd, an illegitimate argument that is often used by those who do in fact discriminate against others to blolster their own accusatory rhetoric. Real racists and homophobes like, oh, say, Pat buchanan or Terry Jeffries or numerous others might attack their critics by accusing those critics of reading gay or black/asian/whatever websites and characterize this as proof of their opponents baseness.
And yet, at the same time, as despicable as a racist, anti-semetic, and homophobic creature like Buchanan is, every so often he does speak the truth about something, and I, personally, see no reason to discredit truth, even when spoken by an odious shitbird like Buchanan, just because he is who he is. Truth survives the personality and pathology of the person who conveys it, and it is a further form of racism to deny this simple fact. Racists themselves almost always denigrate anything said by people of the race or religion or ethnicity they despise based on that race or ethnicity, etc, and such behavior is at the core of how entire groups of people are so esily demonized by the small minded creepswho’ve come to hate them. I don’t think MarekNYC fully understands this dynamic.
In the matter of the Nazi perpetrated holocaust, I certainly recognize the depravity, the eliminationist ideology, and the mass murder as fully deserving of the descriptor “holocaust). I would only add that I think it would serve humanity better if we thought of it as “A holocaust” rather than “The holocaust”, since there have been holocausts without end since the dawn of (supposedly) civilized man.
Lastly, in thematter of Israel, or more accurately, the Israeli government, I do regard this government as inflicting a brutal, repressive and destructive occupation against it’s immediate Arab neighbors. but such a view has nothing to do with the Jewishness of Israel or some imagine anti-Jewish sentiment on my part, nor does it reflect any sort of stupid notion that Israel has no right to exist. No, it reflects exactly the same sort of antipathy I have for my own government here in the US in regars it’s aggresions in various parts of the world, it reflects the same opinions I have for the brutal transgresions of various religious crusades and jihads and aggressions throughout history, and it reflects how I feel abnout any tyranny that seeks to impose it’s will on others by suppression or force of arms. Semitism is not a factor on any level in my perspective there and I certainly see no such shallow and craven thinking reflected anywhere in Oui’s writing either. I do, however, see a bit of what might be termed as “reverse racism” or “reverse anti semitism” reflected in some ofthe commentary of those impugning Oui for things imagined but not demonstrated.
IMHO
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Worthy of a diary entry by itself.
Put a label on the guy and the mob rules.
In medieval times, an example comes to mind how in small communities the psychology of strangers and fear were needed to ward off spooks, masters of sciences and matters unknown to ordinary citizens.
I suppose with George Bush we have returned to medieval beliefs, torture, injustice and physical aggression to suppress the weak.
Amnesty International
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
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It is always the weak of mind and weak of spirit who resort to aggression and force to suppress the strong.
Bush is the perfect example of this axiom.
Glad you liked my commentary, Oui.
where have all the hearts in your posts, gone, oui?
must have oui hearts…
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These hearts?
creve coeur and new creve coeur … that’s been a while!
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
no… your posts used to always have little hearts in them. now i only see triangles.
but as the other diary is past, i will ask this here:
how many palestinians and other natives of the region have been killed since israel was founded? does anybody know?
Palestinian deaths are consistently under-reported by mainstream media. This site has charts and stats showing actual deaths (israeli and palestinian) against reported deaths: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/net-report.html
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At least in any of my diaries.
World’s concern on Human Rights and peace potential :: the clash spots of civilization —
Chechnya – Eretz Israel – Kashmir
It’s tenticles are far-reaching into society and promotes hatred throughout large parts of the Western and SE Asian World.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
Oui, I love your writing. Always read it, don’t always comment. I really enjoy your opinions/diaries and consider them a valuable souce of info. Thought the diary/comments re: Pat Lang’s piece re: Iran and the Holocaust gave me a perspective that I hadn’t had before. Anyway, just wanted to say that.
The fact that this drivel is front paged speaks volumes for the editorial decisions of the owners of this website.
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by Patrick Lang
Fri Jan 6th, 2006 at 08:26:05 AM PST
My friend Paul Petty wrote last night to tell us that his son, Captain Christopher Petty was killed in action yesterday in Iraq.
“Greater love hath no man than this, that he give up his life for his friends.”
Early this morning In Iraq, Chris and four of his soldiers were killed by a so-called “improvised explosive devise” implanted along the route they were taking between Baghdad and Najaf, to the South. Details, at this point, are sketchy but we know that the explosion was powerful enough to kill all five occupants of the armored HUMVEE in which they were traveling. He had been in Iraq only a few weeks.
I definitely have problems with his political analysis and his writing on foreign policy. However, Lang is an intelligence man, that’s where his knowledge and experience lies. I will judge his contribution on what he writes in his stories, I have no problem with Lang as a frontpager with such qualities. Sometimes we need opposition to sharpen the quills!
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
I’m coming in late here, but I wanted to add my support. It’s hard to communicate face-to-face — online even more so. Things can be interpreted in ways other than intended for instance.
I hope that those of us who post regularly would not assume maliciousness, that we know some — enough — about each other to not immediately assume the worst if we post or we link to something that upsets.
Anyway, I do hope that you continue on with your diaries, Oui. {{{Oui}}}
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I know you have been busy, most important to be politically active.
These diaries are a distraction for more useful tasks, however I had to set the record straight. Otherwise if left unanswered, it would be hard to rely on freedom of speech to jot down my thoughts without fear of harassment.
Days of dKos returned at night during sleep. LOL
I know you are always close, thank you and plenty of (((hugs))).
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY ▼
…I think it’s a big distraction (personally and for the community) when something like this happens, so don’t dismiss the need to get it out. I appreciate that Oui. And you too. 🙂
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Main topic covered with Sven :: Power Management
Diary open for questions and discussion.
“But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.”
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Holy shit !! I had no idea this type of thing was going on…. have been absent for a while.
An open mind is a great thing.
An open questioning mind is a great thing, too.
A mind willing to consider a point of view that is contrary to one’s own must be the greatest thing, as it will stop all the aggravation, and start the co-operation…. there’s got to be a comman meeting ground.
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
I’ll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.”
Rumi
Rumi was a sufi poet of the 13th Century. Sufi is the mystic branch of Islam.
Therefore: