Another disgusted cry from Liberal Street Fighter
What a depressing, long week has passed. The event which will spread the greatest ripples across our lives in the decades to come is the confirmation of Justice Alito. Many words have been written on how this dangerous radical was lifted to the Supreme Court, on why the Democrat’s opposition to him was so unfocused and feckless. There is a simple answer to that, and his predictable opposition to Roe v. Wade is at the heart of it. He progressed vitually untouched because so many men in this country seem to need to punish women for their choices in life, for the divisions that tear at this country. From both sides, the political parties echo with the scolding voices of men aimed at “irresponsible” women.
warning: brutally truthful photo after the jump
Pregnancy is the required punishment, it seems, and getting out of it increasingly requires interogation and “permission” from fathers, lovers, politicians, church leaders and husbands. If the situation is too dire, women will take matters into their hands, as Marisacat heartbreakenly discribes, quoting the surviving sister of Gerri Santoro:
Leona Gordon, 74, of Westmoreland, N.H., said she remembers when all abortions were illegal. She recalls what she went through in 1964, with five kids and a bad marriage, to get one. And she recalls what it was like, a few weeks later, to claim the body of her sister, Gerri Santoro, who died after one.
For all of you men out there who think that women have to “live” with the consequences of their sexual behavior, I’d like you to meet Gerri Santoro:
She bled out alone, her panicked lover leaving her to die, in those days pre-Roe, pre-Griswold. She’d fled an abusive marriage, had found some measure of happiness for her and her children, yet here is where this “moral” nation led this this life to its end. “That’s the past,” some might say, yet already, thanks to the spreading Jane Crow laws in this nation, illegal and unsafe abortions are on the rise:
Jen (not her real name) is administrator of a women’s health clinic in the South that provides abortions. She has noted with alarm the recent rise in illegal abortion in her community. For some of the women she sees—after their initial attempts at abortion fail—whether Roe v. Wade is technically still the law of the land is beside the point. The combination of the procedure’s cost, the numerous regulations that her state imposes and the stigma surrounding abortion is leading a growing number of women to choose self-abortion or an untrained practitioner over legal abortion. Finding accurate data about the number of cases is almost impossible. However, Jen’s abortion-providing colleagues in other parts of the country, who communicate their experiences through a listserv, share her observation of a recent perceptible rise in illegal abortion in their clinics as well.
The Roberts/Scalia/Alito/Thomas court will most likely expand those restrictions further, destroying what’s left of Roe the way desperation destroyed Gerri Santoro. After Roe, Griswold and Loving will be next.
Whether couched in the language of religion, or some faux-libertarian talk of “living with the consequences of her decisions”, men often speak as though women are wholly responsible when she becomes pregnant. How many of you guys have thought “I wonder if it’s mine” when she said the test was positive? How many of you scold HER for not being more “careful”? How many of you are filled with thoughts of escape when she’s late? How willing are YOU to go under the knife and have YOUR tubes tied if you don’t want children?
There are good men out there, but why do so few of us speak up? Is the subject too unpleasant? Many of the political blogs ostensibly of the left do everything they can to squeltch debate over reproductive rights, and increasingly women’s voices are being pushed out at dailyKos or pushing religious propaganda about abortion at myDD. The Democratic Party moves closer and closer to Democrats for Life as it increasingly uses anti-woman terms to describe the debate.
Shame on you men who act this way, a hectoring, scolding, self-righteous series of lectures like those from William Saleton:
They’re right. It is bad. I know many women who decided, in the face of unintended pregnancy, that abortion was less bad than the alternatives. But I’ve never met a woman who wouldn’t rather have avoided the pregnancy in the first place.
This is why the issue hasn’t gone away. Abortion, like race-conscious hiring, generates moral friction. Most people will tolerate it as a lesser evil or a temporary measure, but they’ll never fully accept it. They want a world in which it’s less necessary. If you grow complacent or try to institutionalize it, they’ll run out of patience. That’s what happened to affirmative action. And it’ll happen to abortion, if you stay hunkered down behind Roe.
Abortion is bad, see? We all MUST agree on that, right? If only women would grow up, see the political realities, and work to get rid of this shameful choice, then we could have a nicer sort of politics. What a load of crap. There have been very strong and well-thought-out responses to this load of tripe. I’m rather fond of Dadahead’s formulation on how to talk about abortion, and how to do so without the indirect slams on women who claim sovereignty over their bodies:
All right, once and for all:
Abortion is a good thing.
Being in a position where you need/want to have an abortion is not.
(Sarah Silverman: “I want to get an abortion. But my boyfriend and I are having trouble conceiving.”)
Why is this such a brain teaser for some people? Think of it as analogous to open heart surgery. Heart disease sucks; the fact that you can have surgery to help with heart disease is good. Unwanted pregnancy sucks; the fact that you can choose not to be pregnant any longer is good. Ideally, there would be no heart surgeries/abortions, because there would be no heart disease/unwanted pregnancy. Given that there is heart disease/unwanted pregnancy, we want people to be able to have heart surgery/abortions.
The question, “wouldn’t you rather there be fewer abortions?” doesn’t have an unqualified answer. Yes, if a decrease in abortions were the result of a decrease in unwanted pregnancies. If it were the result of something else, like increasing expense, criminalization of the procedure, etc., then the answer is no.
To look at it any other way is to continue this culture’s unhealthy attitude toward sex and toward women. Abortion is a medical procedure, a procedure that can improve a patient’s quality of life, or even save her life. That’s all it is. For women to be truly free, they must have this choice. It really is that simple. All of the hot air and indignation that pours out of too many men’s mouths is merely wailing over this last vestige of male privilege. You can couch it in piety over a “culture of life” or over male property rights over a bundle of cells, but EITHER of those points of view lead to enforced pregnancy. Enslavement based on how men “feel”.
What a tragic destructive society we live in.
My personal opinion of abortion is irrelevant but I adamantly support the right for any woman to have that freedom of choice.
a uterus has the right to have. π
I saw a great bumper sticker a few years ago:
“If you believe abortion is wrong, then don’t have one.”
When Madman refers to “male ownership rights of a clump of cells,” I know he is referring to a fertilized egg, but in my view it is about men who wish to claim ownership of a larger clump of cells – the lady herself.
Subjugation of women is the oldest and most effective method of controlling a society known to humankind.
It is also the most effective method of retarding and degrading a society.
You just have a way of cutting thru bullshit and getting straight to the point–takes me awhile to figure it out! But, eventually, I do!
Yeah, it takes me a few reads to get it too.
π
I think there might be a discussion on shared decisions with respect and equality in responsibility, but not here. Ultimately, this uterine-lacking human being can only support the right to freedom of choice and equality.
Without diverging, I come from a family that has great women in it…strong, independent, loving, supportive. My first marriage ended when my 2 kids were both under 5 yrs old. My ex wanted/needed something I couldn’t give her…a uterine type body-person-love. Cool enough, be happy, kids stayed with me by mutual choice. That was 1992 and society had trouble with all of that but we didn’t. Son’s graduating from college soon and a beautiful daughter is gettting to live with mom more, again by choice, now that everyone is a little older and more settled.
Anyway, I shared that to explain that in quiet ways, stereotypes are shattered by respect, equality, free choice with responsibility, compassion and understanding. I can catch hell for misunderstandings on issues by people who would never know how much I support their goals but I’ll never stop supporting them.
Not this man.
The democrat’s capitulation is just the latest in a series of continuing moral outrages.
Liberal Men Rock!
I was just thinking… what if men had babies?
When the mister goes to get snipped (I can’t deal with looking up how to spell vasectomy(SP),,, I will NOT sign any “permission slip”
It’s his dick.
It’s my body.
Period.
Freedom for men AND women.
I chose the ‘snip’ after the second child because it was the best solution for both of us in the marriage. A woman shouldn’t be on the pill long term and this was cheap, quick, easy, safe and sensible. I can’t remember if she had to sign or not. I chose to do it for the family but if I had wanted it done without her knowledge I should’ve been able to do that, I think.
I can’t believe our society would choose to subject women to that low standard of health care option by outlawing a medical procedure.
Yep, Rumi and hooray for you π
Even as adults, big govt wants to treat us little children. “Now go home and tell your wife”…
It’s some slip that states you’ve informed or have consulted with your spouse… UH HELLO… that’s between us and not some nurse. If he wanted to discuss it with me he would have if not – not. He did, we have, we don’t need no steeenking piece of paper making sure we spoke of it.
Not all women agree:
Here all along I thought by being pro-choice I was supporting equality for women. Now, thanks to the author, I know that what we have really been after is cheap, meaningless, consequence-free sex, as usual.
I’d never seen that before.
It’s such a repetition of a right-wing POV. I know how much such attitudes have permiated some parts of our culture, but it still pisses me off when I see it.
I’ve convinced otherwise Republican women to change their votes, one simply after explaining Bush’s references to Dred Scott.
I’m “vociferously” pro-choice b/c I’m a humanist. Not being able to make their own health choices makes women less free than men. If women are less free, we’re ALL less free. It distorts everything: the way children are raised, the attitudes that boys develop as they become men, the way couples interact and discuss lifes most momentous decisions.
I just watched “Kinsey” last night for the first time, and it was stunning to be reminded how repressed this country was, only a short time before I was born. Within my lifetime married couples had their rights to contraception affirmed and interracial couples had the obstacles come down, yet we’ve still so far to go.
Now we go backward, and I find out that I’m “creepy” for demanding that ALL of my fellow citizens be equally free.
I decided a long time ago that a sense of justice REQUIRED me to be pro-autonomy. Not because I want to be able to discard women or a child, should we be confronted by an unwanted pregancy, but because if I’m not then I’m not truly accepting a woman as a full equal. This is partly selfish: if I do have that attitude toward women, then there is a wall between us, we’re not on equal footing. My life has been so enriched by the women I know and have known, and I know that their opportunities flowered BECAUSE they’ve had this freedom upheld by law.
Now I know that some just think I’m creepy for it.
I had never seen that either but the GOP makes monsters of us all.
Which is creepier?
A man wanting to have casual sex with you or a man wanting to have a casual parenthood with you?
keep rocking Madman!
Also from that link…
Any opinions on the accuracy of this? Beyond that, this is another example of why we need organized coalitions or alliances to speak with one, louder voice, especially on issues that are more important to others.
This reminds me of the same kind of “convential wisdom” we get out of so much of the establishment media in this country.
Reproductive autonomy is TIED to workplace issues. Healthcare is tied to workplace issues. IT’S ALL OF A PIECE. This belief that we have to pick and choose between issues of who’s freedom and opportunities matters more IS TO ABSORB WINGER POINTS OF VIEW.
A progressive party would knit these concerns into a seamless whole, because they are all connected to one another. Only the wealthy and privileged are able to compartmentalize, because money and access buys people that ability. Unwanted pregancies become a separate issue, BECAUSE people in the upper reaches of our gov’t, media and corporations have more choices, because of their money and positions.
For most of us, it’s all tied together. Labor needs to work with feminists who need to work with gays who need to make common cause with blacks and native americans who should champion illegal immigrant and so on.
These are all questions of justice and personal autonomy. They are all about access to life or to liberty or the ability to pursue one’s own happiness.
To insist on this kind of compartimentalization is to help the Republicans go about their dismantlements of everything gained over the last century.
Absolutely. That’s the one…if I understand correctly. I’m not sure about anything anymore.
They are all tied together; the culture of violence, homophobia, and sexism. As long as we accept the myth that men are sexual subjects and women are sexual objects, that sex is something men do to women, or get from women, we are doomed to monstrously distorted roles for both. Our culture forces men to define themselves as “not women”. All the traits traditionally associated with the feminine are debased and denigrated. Gays are targeted as gender traitors because they “demean” themselves by rejecting the boilerplate male role. We live in a society that inculcates from birth the bedrock, emotional belief that the “fucker” is a powerful, aggressive, superior winner, and the “fuckee” is a weak, passive, inferior loser. We will never be free of this sick, destructive mythology until we can redefine sexuality from the predator/prey, intercourse with trimmings model to a broader sensuality that embodies the mutuality of a duet or a pas de deux.
In conclusion (A-hem), it is obvious that Progressives are better lovers, and that Enlightened Liberal Men are the only ones who are going to get laid after the Revolution.
It’s obvious that you are absolutely brilliant.
π
Your comment summed up many misconceptions/stereotypes we all need to overcome.
<Blush>
Well, I DO have impeccable taste in men.
That’s what drew me to the Pond.
hey, we match with blushing color. It goes well with the froggy green, though. Thanks.
π
I still remember when I was a kid–at church (am a non=practicing Catholic) there was a sermon or something anti-abortion (this was after Roe v. Wade was decided). Anyway, my dad had a fit–after church he went on and on and on about how abortion was between a woman and her doctor and it was “none of the Catholic churches damn business.”
I still feel that way–between a woman and her doctor.
you have a very wise dad.
Had–he died in 1997. No apology necessary–you didn’t know.
And I know he thanks you too and is watching over you.
Also, thanks for bringing back some really good memories of him!
ROE v. WADE, 410 U.S. 113 (1973).
Great diary Madman … you hit on many of the essential points that many of us (well, at least me) feel so conflicted about and have yet to resolve successfully. I agree that once the wingnuts have managed to criminalize abortion again, they will not stop there, and they’ll be even more invasive into our bedrooms. I fear that overturning overturned sodomy laws will be next, then who knows where else they’ll choose to take away our eroded freedoms?
It’s bad enough I can’t legally marry my wonderful “husband” of 8+ years, and they want to enshrine that discrimination into the Constitution … next we’ll all be forced to wear identifying symbols to marginalize us even more. Then the camps (see Damnit Janet’s comments in “Culture Wars” thread with an excellent link to an article about Halliburton/KBR’s contracts to set up detainment centers.
When will we see the public book burnings begin? Or the “firemen” from Fahrenheit 450 start torching our neighborhoods? Oh well, those wingnuts in Jesuslandia don’t read books (just fantasy mythology) anyway, so why should they care?
Yikes, better end this rant. Thanks for another great diary Madman.
last year since Bush imposed an abortion gag
according to diary at the orange place:
Britain Defies America
…how this issue will play out when the next handful of abortion cases reaches the Supreme Court. Could still be 5-4 in favor of Roe. I suspect the first round of decisions will be nibbles that give the states more and more say. As we all know, the states have been doing their own nibbling for decades now, refusing to pay for poor women’s abortions, restricting clinics and other providers in any way they can get away with and generally pushing the envelope regarding those restrictions, finding new legislative wording when old wording is struck down.
Since the first laws liberalizing abortion in Colorado were passed in 1967, my own view as a man has been that it’s up to a woman what to do about her pregnancy and I’ll do whatever I can to assist her in making whatever choice she wishes – whether that’s going to term or seeking an abortion. That’s why I joined 14 other men and women in establishing the nation’s first not-for-profit abortion clinic in 1975. That’s why I’ve stood in front of clinics in Denver and Los Angeles in solidarity with women of choice being harassed by the “culture of lifers.” That’s why I’ve contributed thousands of dollars to NARAL and Planned Parenthood over the past decades. That’s why I’ve never voted for a candidate for high office or low who was anti-choice.
As the options continue to shrink, it’s up to us – women and men – to figure a practical way – if a Supreme Court decision does fully overturn Roe (which I think unlikely unless Bush gets another anti-choice justice on the high bench) – for women to continue to have access to safe abortions.
That may mean a state-by-state fight, it might mean setting up an underground railway to clinics in Canada, it might mean smuggling in RU 486, or other illegal methods. Naturally, any guerrilla techniques would not put an end to the need to do our part in dragging the Congress and the Court back toward the pro-choice side of things, which we have to be doing anyway. But that will take a long time, and obviously there will be hundreds of thousands of women who simply can’t wait for that political process – with its uncertain outcome – to play out. They will need practical solutions to their predicaments. It’s up to all of us who are adamantly pro-choice to come up with such solutions.
is that procedural barriers will be put in place, such as an appeals process for a denial. The reason that I think that is that there has been so much emphasis placed on “the process” of social programs as opposed to the end result of such program–I deal w/it almost every day as a tbi survivor. Have filed so many appeals re: social programs and the time delay in getting an answer is ridiculous.
link
And, it is already happening w/Medicare D.
Thank you.
Thank you for all you’ve done and all you are willing to do. Thank you for the not-for-profit clinic. Thank you for putting your body on the line, your money where your mouth is, and your vote in the ballot box. Thank you making this our fight.
I am so grateful to have found the Frog Pond at a time when I was desperately despondent, convinced that the work of thirty years was unknown or irrelevant to so many young men who claim to identify with the left.
Booman Tribune has restored my faith in the continuing alliance of all men and women who will not be satisfied until “justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream.”