Okay. I’m looking for a raw transcript of Cheney’s interview with Brit Hume and I can’t find it. But this section from the Fox News website gives the gist of what concerns me.
“I turned and shot at the bird, and at that second, saw Harry standing there. Didn’t know he was there,” Cheney said. “I saw him fall, basically. It had happened so fast.”
The vice president added that Whittington was standing in a gully so only his upper body was visible, and that the sun was facing Cheney, which “affected the vision, too, I’m sure.”
I’d appreciate it if any bird hunters can help me out with this testimony.
1. Cheney claims that he was tracking a bird that had been flushed out of the brush. This bird was therefore flying.
2. Cheney claims Whittington was approximately thirty yards away.
3. Cheney claims that Whittington was standing in a depression and was only visible from the torso up.
4. Cheney shot his gun and hit Whittington from the torso up.
Assuming that Cheney’s gun was at least slightly raised to hit a bird flying out of the brush, it would be impossible to hit Whittington from 30 yards.
Is it normal to have your gun lowered to hit a bird just as it comes out of the brush? Do quail tend to fly low to the ground?
I know that I may be displaying my ignorance of bird hunting but this just doesn’t make sense to me.
And the trajectory of the shot is just one aspect of this that isn’t adding up.
The victim was presumably wearing warm clothing and a orange safety vest. He was struck on the right side, the angle the offered the maximum distance to the heart. How did birdshot penetrate that deeply into his chest and not go right through his unprotected neck or through his cranium and into his brain?
And, furthermore:
Why did the President and Vice-President wait 36 hours to discuss this incident?
Did Cheney authorize Ms. Armstrong to talk to the local reporter as he claims, or did she do it on her own initiative as she told Byron York of the National Review and reporters from the Washington Post?
Why did Cheney’s staff call the Situation Room and withhold the key information that Cheney was the shooter?
Why did Karl Rove have to call Armstrong to get the information that Cheney was the shooter? And did he give her her talking points that completely mischaracterized Whittington’s wounds and placed the blame for the shooting on Whittington?
And I have more questions. But most of all, I want to know how a man can hit a target below him when aiming at a bird that is flying.
You can play a quail shooting game here.
Every time I drive down the dirt road to the animal shelter — and if it’s spring or summer or early fall — the quail fly up, but very low to the ground, yet quickly — to get away.
However they also will walk rapidly across the road. They’er sharp birds … they know if they have time to walk across before the car comes close.
(OH, and the single-file row of their babies behind them is the cutest damn thing in the world.)
Of course, underreported in all of this is that a lot of those in those “canned hunts” are captive quail kept in tiny cages who never get to walk or run around much at all. Probably — if the hunter is a decent shot — a fast death from being shot is a mercy killing to relieve the agony of being stuck in a cage endlesslyl.
they must fly very low for Cheney to have his gun aimed down or level. If he was shooting downhill maybe that can explain it.
Another ?: What about all the rx’s he takes for his heart? Before my late father’s bypass surgery, he did not drink per dr’s orders. (Not even after.) I never saw my dad drink any alcholic beverage my entire life!
There’s a terrific spread to the shot as it travels — why on earth would you aim down? You could wind up with birdshot up your nose!
I saw a guest on one of the news shows take issue with the thirty yard deal also. He said Cheney was using a .28 gauge shotgun and its not powerful enough to do any real damage to a person at that distance.
I think that was the gist of it.
Ya know with all the crap we have to decipher every day from these creeps I know we all could use a good laugh. Take a listen to this and have yourself a giggle.
http://www.mix941.fm/markmercedes/audio/021506_cheneysgotagun.mp3
Leezy thats a crackup!
I thought so! Glad you enjoyed it! Have a great night!
Wouldn’t that be great? Every time a wingnut says something stupid, it plays. I got up this morning with the tune running through my head.
with losing vision, not as a hunter but as a photographer:
When a person begins to lose their vision, they rely more and more on movement just as many animals do. Most animals rely more on movement than colour or detail.
(Not that I sympathize with the old coot. If he is losing his vision, he should not be driving or hunting.)
at me because I know when to ask for the binoculars. The tree itself may be just a blur, but I can tell when something moves in it.
But let’s assume that it is true also of Cheney. That still does not explain why Whittington would watch him raise his gun and aim, and not provide any movement or sound. He just stood there motionless?
This is why I have been asking about Whittington’s vision. Do we have a case of two old nearly blind men wandering around where people have firearms?
It is odd that the security staff would allow this. It is also dangerous to Cheney.
This is why I am firmly in the tipsy Cheney close range camp, but I do not think that Whittington, if he lives, will ever tell this.
So is Al Franken I just saw him on of all places scarborough country. He says drinking is the reason for the 14 delay and the fact cheney did not go to the hospital with whittington.
14 hour delay that is.
Whittington must be climbing the walls in that hospital right now if he’s living this lie by covering for a drunken cheney. The press would be well advised that whittington is the weak link here.
I heard he wants to go home. No doubt I would too.
omg that totaly makes sense. I mean.. he’s tracking thebird.. waiting for the right moment.. and fires when his weapon reaches the horizon and he cannot notice a man standingnot 30 yards from him? Now.. it’s possible he could just simply have been a dunderhead… bt if it were me there would have been NO 14 hour delays i would have been in a tizzy trying to figure out how the man was doing.
At any rate, If we find out what happened in the 14 hours we’ll find out quite a bit about who Cheny is. My suspicious mind wonders if THAT was what the delay was about.
here
my high score 1650, and I only shot one fellow hunter in any of my attempts. And, yes, I was drunk on daquiris.
2700. No hunters. Shoot for the bird in the middle when drunk.
I can’t touch you Joe. I did break 2000 though. The music is great for drunken quail hunting though.
I found that movie hilarious. I figured I would find it completely degrading to women only, but I have to say, the combination of Wilson-Vaughn is comedy genius. They took a really crappy script and made it funny.
second time 2100…
I figured the quail was in the middle the ‘drunker’ I got. Didn’t hit another hunter either, but kept quaffing.
Which is why I don’t buy the one-beer theory.
None of the stories by any of the Bush Gang on any subject ever add up!
They lie automatically, even on those extremely rare occasions when they have no reason to.
don’t add up, votes don’t add up, unemployment figures don’t add up, Medicare plans don’t add up, military recruitment adds up until it instantly over night stops adding up, the number of years a person can walk around without a functioning heart doesn’t add up. Yer right…nothing with these guys adds up. It is a very strange anomaly huh?
When people view honesty as a weakness, truth as an obstacle, and respect for others as a meaningless restrainton their power, this is what happens; they become a band of criminal psychopaths in love with themselves and intent on blowing up the earth.
I’m not a hunter, bird or otherwise, but quail are common where I grew up. Quail are little balls of muscle with short, powerful wings. They’re little drag racers, built for the quick getaway from a pouncing predator. When danger approaches they freeze in whatever cover they have. They will hold their cover until a coyote or fox is literally inches away. When they finally do bolt, they literally explode out of their cover, but they seldom fly very high or very far. There is so much about this story that doesn’t pass the smell test, but that little bit at least, is plausible.
It’s definitely been my experience — both on hunting trips & just as a matter of living in the woods — that wild birds generally don’t flush at 30 yards! You’ve got to be much closer.
The question remains, of course, as to if these are ‘wild’ birds or not, & would therefore exhibit the same behavior. I’d bet not.
Imho, the entire story stinks to high heaven. However: when it’s no problem to lie shamelessly with regard to others’ lives, who can expect honesty when it’s a bit more personal?
One possibility is that Cheney was a little buzzed and thought Whittington was a quail. Doesn´t make sense that Whittington would be in the exact spot the quail were, if in fact he was there to retrieve one he had already shot.
I’d say that at that point they were still trying to come up with a version whereby somebody else in the party took the blame. Perhaps they couldn’t ’cause old Harry was in no shape to remember the “story”.
Someone on Kos suggested that Cheney was hunting with the safety off and his finger on the trigger–in violation of all hunting protocol–and that he may have stumbled and the gun went off in Whittington’s direction. The distance (they would have been 15 to 20 yards apart) and the angle is consistent with that speculation. If Whittington dies, that would be negligent homicide.
I lived down there for five years, south of Corpus. Much of south Texas, including Kenedy County, is technically desert because of its low rainfall. When it rains, the water can’t run off because the land is so flat. The nearest hills are at least a hundred miles away, so I take the whole gully thing with a grain of salt.
Though I’ve never been on the Armstrong Ranch, I did go with a hunting party on the King Ranch once. (That was the only time I ever shot a gun. “Oh, my God! What if I hit something?” I thought.) There were many cases of beer for about a dozen people, and we stayed in a lovely, sprawling adobe house. I only went so I could be on the King Ranch and say I’d been there. So I’m saying it. But I expect my trip wasn’t atypical.
Just my .02.
It’s Daquiri time!!
I think something just added up
This is solely my own opinion on Dicky boy. I think he is so impotent that he has to go on these fake hunging trips to give him just a little thrill and bang. I think he needs this every once in a while to make his own self think he is worth anything at all. I do not think he is any good at shooting anyhow. All of this hunting shit is all brag and no fact. After all they have to keep any animal caged for him to shoot at anyhow. Otherwise, he couldn’t aim intellegent and do hunting like a normal man that hunts. He has to be known at the “KIller”….:o) He has to feel superior to anyone and anything. This man needs to be hospitalized in the place they call “section 8″….
Boo, I am not a hunter and could be wrong, so I hesitate to answer here, but for what it is worth. Seems to me I remember watching some outdoor show on Sat Am on ESPN a few years back that dealt with quail hunting. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that I remember scenes of quail being flushed and that they do tend to fly low as they try to escape. Like I said, I could be very wrong. Certainly there is a Democratic Bird Hunter out there somewhere to set the record straight?!
As for the rest of it, 30yds=90feet, 28 gage shotgun??? I really wonder about that. Someone with knowledge of shotguns and effective ranges should be able to clear up that question.
I’ll try to help here.
Quail, like all upland game birds are difficult to flush. They will run, literally, unless they are in an area, such as dense brush, where they feel secure. A very big ? here, in my mind, is whether or not they were using dogs, as the circumstances that you would expect are different than if you were walking them out.
If you are hunting with well trained dogs, they will flush them generally 5 to 10 yds out from the hunting line. If you imagine a line of hunters moving forward together as a unit 10 to 15 yds apart, with the dogs coursing left to right 5 to 10 yds ahead of you, you will have a mental image of the field. The field of fire, cone if you will,for the individual hunter is approx 150° to the front, with the hunters on the end of the line having a much wider field to their empty side. When a covey is flushed they come up very fast and tend to stay low to the ground and will generally fly away from the dog(s) without gaining a great deal of altitude. The rule of don’t shoot until there’s sky under the bird is inappropriate for quail as they rarely will get above the horizon. In this circumstance you must be very careful not to hit the dogs.
If you’re walking them out it is not uncommon for them to flush right at your feet. Very sudden, noisy and always unexpected, even with experience. When that happens, the birds are as likely as not to go in many directions, sometimes as much as 360° so knowing where your companions are and picking your shot…ie: don’t just blast away…are critical to safety. In other words, the field of fire is dictated by the circumstance and one must possess the experience, awareness and judgment to react in an appropriate manner.
As to the penetration power of a 28 Ga. 7 1/2 shot load at 30 yds I can only say it depends on a lot of things. The “killing power” of a std. 2 3/4 shell falls off dramatically at 30 to 35 yds. Since 3″ magnum loads are not available in 28 Ga. one would assume that, unless “Dick” uses custom hand loads that this would be at the outer limit of the guns effective lethal range. Given it’s February, the parties involved were most probably wearing several layers of clothing…long sleeved undershirt, flannel shirt and hunting jacket (canvas like, think Carhart) as well as a vest. IMo, the 30 yd distance is extremely unlikely given the extent of the wounds. I would imagine it was significantly closer, perhaps 20 yds +-. Anything less than that, given that Harry took pretty much the full pattern, would, in all likelihood have been fatal and we would be having a very different discussion.
There are many other factors that could influence the outcome of such an accident, but this is to long already. Hope this helps.
Suffice it to say, Dick fucked up Big Time.
Peace
Okay, that was very helpful.
Now, I believe there were dogs involved. But, regardless, he still shot a man that was below him. So should we assume that he was shooting downhill? I mean, what else can we assume? Right?
Even flying low, any altitude at all would mean that Cheney misses a friend at any distance that is lower than he is.
I don’t think that’s a valid assumption Boo. If Harry was indeed below him, elevation wise, it is not unlikely he was standing, or walking in a “bar ditch”…the drainage channel that parallels nearly every section road in those parts. Since they were hunting from vehicles, a sin in and of itself, this is very likely.
As previously noted, quail do not fly high subsequently it is not hard to imagine that the shot was fired below horizontal and that the trajectory of the shot was such that it struck him at, lets say, shoulder level. Very few shots at quail are above the horizon, in my experience. They fly very close to the deck, and I mean very close. less than 4 – 5 ft.
And in reality, uphill or down, Cheney never should have pulled the trigger. There are a lot of hunters in this country, and every one of them knows this is BS.
Peace
The WaPo has full text of the Brit Hume-Cheney spinathon.
Really, you have to love this:
Maybe if you weren’t so goddamn trigger-happy, Dick, it would’ve happened slower.
This is neither conscious remorse or contrition — it’s a man saying he simply couldn’t control himself.
I’ll tell you what. If it was Cheney that got shot and they handled it like this it would make the JFK assassination look pale in comparison when it came to speculation.
“You shot the VP and then went and had a catered dinner?”
I did a little bird hunting in my youth. Didn’t really enjoy it much and stopped having enough time once high school/college hit.
that said:
Quail move very fast and fly low, up, down and all around. They are not that easy to hit. It’s not that surprising to me that an old man wearing glasses (hurts peripheral vision) could track 60-75 degrees on a bird flushing perhaps 5-10 yds out (sometimes you walk right up on them before they flush – scared the shit out of me every time) and fail to notice he’d just tracked onto someone obscured by brush 30 yds out. (All this is speculation just like everyone else). Cheney’s still at fault as he pulled the trigger, but walking back into a group close enough to get hit that badly without making your presence known is pretty stupid.
Also consider the rest of the physical situation. It’s late in the day, (5:30-6:00) so shadows are long and light density poor. These old geezers should have been back at the ranch by then enjoying their “companionship”. The whole scenario sounds unsafe to me. I wonder if they have flame orange walkers or just shoot from a rocker in the back of the pickup when they get a little more aged???
As for birdshot not penetrating the skull vs digging through clothes/flesh, I’d guess #8 shot could easily penetrate clothing and an inch of flesh to lodge near the heart. The skull is hard as a rock. Hard to penetrate. I’ve never hunted with the new no-lead shot, but the old stuff flattened out pretty fast. You could blast a piece of plywood and make it fly all over without penetrating all the way through.
Warm clothing is relative. Today’s high was 78. They may have only been wearing shirts and the orange vest. Those vests can be paper thin nylon.
Why did Cheney fail to come clean for many, many hours? Force of habit for lying MFs????
There is no eyewitness account. Armstrong was in the car. There were other “hunters.” What do they say? How about the ambassador?
Many years ago, when I was still living in southern California, I would encounter coveys of quail when hiking in the hills behind my house. From what I remember, these birds live in the tall grass, using it as camouflage; and when they fly, they fly very close to the ground. They are never in the air for very long. This part of the story does add up, in my opinion.
On the other hand, having fired a shotgun or two (though I’m certainly no expert), I’m of the opinion that there is no way Whittington was thirty yards away, it had to have been more like thirty feet for it to do that kind of damage.
I’m sure there are ballistics experts out there who will weigh in on this in the days to come.
I happened to find myself out drinking “conservatively” last night when Cheney emerged from his foxhole. That is, I was in a largely rethug bar at the time, having a Bushmills Black Bush–for irony’s sake.
Based on the reactions of my newfound “drinking buddies”, I’d suggest that focusing on all these details surrounding the actual incident is not as effective as pointing out something I mentioned in a comment yesterday:
The rethugs have no answer to that. They went ballistic. Seriously. Ultimately, me bringing up that point finally caused one of them to reveal his true self by saying, “Oh let them eat cake!”
Course we all know that’s what they’re thinking, but they certainly can’t admit it–not if we’re to take “compassionate” conservatives at their word.
If my “test audience” is any index, there is hardly any rebuttal to counter this aspect of the incident–certainly not for anyone who takes the notion of “hard work” seriously.
I’m a hunter and I hate Dick Cheney. That said, I have only contempt for assholes who “hunt” on a game farm where the birds are raised for the purpose of rich old fucks to shoot them. That’s sport all right. That an excuse for a miserable human being to exorcise some kind of demon that demands that he kill something. When you go someplace to kill things that you don’t have to first enter their world and “track” then you’re not a hunter, you’re a killer. Dick Cheney should be tied naked to a chair at a PETA convention.
My speculation is that the only way this happens is for one drunk to shoot another drunk. Using a small shotgun like Cheney’s .28 very likely shooting a 7 1/2 load would not do so much damage to a well clothed human being at 30 yards.
I know Cheney’s lying for two reasons: first, he is a liar; second he’s a drunk liar. Oh wait a minute, it’s the President who’s a drunk. It’s so hard to keep the dissipations of the family values crowd straight.
I posted this comment somewhere else, and I have to admit I love the image.
Re: They lie when they talk about sanctity of life (none / 0)
Imagine, if you will, a farm. A farm where the owners stock Republican Vice Presidents who are assholes. (a data set of one). Imagine further that the owners of this farm are quail, pheasants and assorted birds (kind of a George Orwell type farm). And finally imagine with unrestrained joy that the purpose of this farm is to let the Vice President run through a shoot, above which are many bird perches with many bird asses taking many bird shits on this shithead’s head.
Now, dammit, admit that life is good.
“The unexamined life is not worth living.” Socrates “Huh?” Dubya
I bet they don´t even eat the goddamn birds. He´s always picking on someone or something that can´t defend itself.
Parts of the story makes sense, but the most important parts do not.
see http://www.rfgc.org/reload/pattern_density_calc.htm
Given this and other info I’ve seen it fits that the wound pattern and severity could happen at 30 yds. Quail fly low and I haven’t seen anything that said the quail was 30 yds out, just Whittington. So, the simplest explanation is that Cheney fired on a bird just as he said so.
But he screwed up big time. Rule #1 of hunting birds is to make sure you see sky behind the target. Clearly he did not.
Second screw up is waiting 14 hours to talk to the sheriff. No matter what actually happened that has created a stink he will never get off him.
SS worked that deal, that is known. But what was the reason? To protect him because he had a belly full of beer? To protect themselves because they let him hunt with a bunch of drunks? Maybe no one was drunk but they wanted to make sure everyone’s story was right.
Of course one part of the explanation surely includes the fact that Cheney hates the press and feels no need to talk to them about anything. But he knows that as soon as he talked to the press things would get out. And he knew that he needed to talk to the sheriff before he talked to the press. If he felt no urgency to do the latter, he felt no urgency to do the former.
Hey drew-
I’ve seen a few experts on TV and none of them have been willing to back up the 30 yard thing. They have no problem with the density of the shot, but they do have problems with the penetration.
And I have to confess that I don’t get it. If all the pellets have the same basic velocity and similar mass, then a pellet that can go through several layers of clothing and eight inches of dense tissue would also go right through the throat, and probably have a good chance of penetrating the skull.
Of course, this issue remains true no matter the range. But it confuses me.
In any case, none of the experts had an explanation for how a pellet made it to the heart through winter clothing.
And Ms. Armstrong’s early statements that he had been merely bruised, peppered a little bit, broke the skin and a little bleeding, but he was fine…
As Carnacki points out, his injuries to his face and neck must have been much more severe and they probably didn’t know initially whether he would live.
Cheney’s first call was probably to his lawyer, who told him to dummy up until they knew whether he would live. Once they were comfortable that would live, but still not certain, he used Armstrong because she had no official ties to the OVP, and he couldn’t be held liable for any mistatements she might make.
He clearly didn’t trust the WH to make a comment that didn’t place him in legal jeopardy.
Great points.
The disconnect from reality in Armstrong’s initial comments almost sounds like she didn’t see Whittington after he was hit.
welcome andy…I know who you are!!!!!:o) Glad to have you here…hugs and stay with us please…we need more boomans around here…:o)
Howdy- That calculator doesn’t state what kind of gun is being used for the stated loads, and the shot densities at any range seem high for a 28, are you sure the calculator isn’t for the more standard 12 or 20 gauge guns?
I haven’t done much quail hunting (woodcock are much tastier) but from observation those birds do flush low enough that you could do “collateral damage” just a couple of feet off the ground.
But I just don’t find the range credible at al- at 30 yards 7 and a half shot just doesn’t have the velocity to do that kind of penetration- the spread is so variable depending on the type of choke used that the spread doesn’t give that much information. From the penetration I’d guess that Cheney’s buddy was 10 to 15 yards away. If the victim was coming out of a gully, an irresponsible hunter with a case of quail fever could well have shot at movement rather than an actual seen bird.
The only other suggestion I’ve heard is that Cheney used massively overcharged shells- which would make sense only if he had no intention of taking his kills. (suggested by a friend who likes to hunt rats at the dump with a 20 gauge and overpowered shells) A load big enough to damage Whittington in that manner at 30 yards would vaporize quail at normal shooting ranges (5-15 maybe 20 yards). And that isn’t hunting, that’s just killing. Which does fit with Cheney’s personality.
My guess? Cheney didn’t see a freaking bird. He heard Whittington walking through the brush, assumed it was a freaking bird, and wheeled and fired in that direction. Which, of course, would be an utterly irresponsible thing for Cheney to do, and therefore entirely plausible.
I used to hunt when I was a young man (with my father and cousins) and took a required hunting safety course. I am also quite proficient with a number of firearms, especially a rifle, even though I don’t much care for guns.
I was taught there are only two angles at which one should discharge a firearm–pointing down at the ground at a50-65 angle out from the body, or pointing up at a 25-30 degree angle from the body.
When the quail are on the fly, your rifle should be in the “down” position for safety. You then bring the rifle to its “up” position and (hopefully) catch the birds in your sight as they fly more or less in a line along the horizon. This is very difficult to do even if one is a good shot, which is why so many hunters use shotguns–the dispersal of the pellets greatly increases your odds of killing a bird.
Cheney either is a piss-poor hunter and should stop doing it altogether, or else his reflexes and judgment were impaired by alcohol consumption. I’m guessing it’s the latter.
I diaried this: “When Dick Shot Harry”, at http://www2.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/2/16/132735/429
First, My understanding is the pellet “migrated” to the heart. It did not penetrate there initially. Remember these are very tiny beebees.
Second, why is penetration important? Where is the harm or perceived evil in saying he was 30 yds away when he really was 20? If it is a lie or they just got it wrong what does that imply for the rest of the story? I don’t think anyone wants to say Cheney got in a fight with him and tried to kill him.
Armstrong’s comment to me clearly say she was just trying to downplay the whole thing for her embarrased friends and perhaps be in keeping with the notion that Texans are so tough they can take a face full of buckshot and bounce back.
The two greatest harms (if that’s what you want to call it) to come from this for Cheney is
the evil is in this:
I think this man is much more badly injured than we are being told…even now.
I base that judgment on the fact that he has hit from the side, and that pellets were able to penetrate his clothing, his skin, and probably about eight inches of tough tissue and lodge up against his heart. BB’s do not have wings, and they do not migrate. At most, the BB might have move slightly due to the motion of the lungs or the beating of the heart. He basically got shot in the heart.
And since no expert seems to believe that a .28 guage shotgun using 7 1/2 birdshot could accomplish that task at 30 yards, I have to assume that he was shot from a closer range.
Secondly, if a pellet can penetrate that far into his chest then another one can do that to his exposed head and neck.
So, in my opinion, the mystery of Cheney’s actions can be solved if we assume this man was nearly mortally wounded and that it was obvious to anyone that took at the swiss cheese of his head and neck.
Cheney lawyered up and withheld information from the WH. Then he concocted a cover story that implied that the man was not very badly injured.
And then he lost control of the story.
Nobody has suggested Cheney got in a fight and shot Mr. Whittington.
What happened is that Mr. Cheney made himself look guilty by the way he handled this incident.
Mr. Cheney, a secretive, almost reclusive, man by nature has fueled accusations he was drinking or that he was present at the ranch with his mistress because he wasn’t forthcoming about this accident.
I believe that Mr. Cheney shot Mr. Whittington by accident. I also believe that Mr. Cheney really thought that if he just stayed quiet about the whole thing, it would blow over.
Mr. Whittington’s injuries are serious. He is 78 years old and nearly died from being shot. Mr. Cheney is the first sitting vice-president since Aaron Burr (204 years ago) to have shot a man.
And Mr. Cheney didn’t think that he deserved to give an explanation to the American people? His “undisclosed location” must be on Mars.
This is why the law doesn’t matter anymore and if our leaders don’t respect it, nobody will.
There are plenty of reasons for Cheney haters to be dancing a jig at the moment. This is one serious comeupance (sp?).
I just don’t see the political or legal gain to be made by covering up the fact that a guy was more hurt than he really was. I mean the VP SHOT someone. That by itself is pretty bad. Unless he shot bin Laden its not good.
And the guy is in a public hospital with regular nurses and doctors. Leaks are going to happen. And if they lives (or is said to be doing fine) he is going to have to talk to reporters sooner rather than later. It would seem the VP would know instantly that he couldn’t downplay it too much for too long if whittington was really badly hurt.
That said, anyone getting shot is a serious thing, especially if you are 78 years old.
as for all the stuff about getting through a winter coat and such, maybe I missed it, but has anyone actually seen the coat. How thick was it? was it zipped at the time? How damaged is it now? Until you can see the actual damage and wounds, there is no way you can do anything except speculate.
My speculation? They knew immediately this accident was a disaster and the only part of it they could make better was to not let him talk to the cops with alcohol in his system (either a lot or a little).
So they circled the wagons and dummied up. It removed the certainty of creating a documented fact that the VP shot a man while under the influence, but replaced it with speculation that he did any number of awful things. Tough call, but as usual, not taking immediate responsibility always gets these guys screwed.
There are plenty of reasons for Cheney haters to be dancing a jig at the moment. This is one serious comeupance (sp?).
I just don’t see the political or legal gain to be made by covering up the fact that a guy was more hurt than he really was. I mean the VP SHOT someone. That by itself is pretty bad. Unless he shot bin Laden its not good.
And the guy is in a public hospital with regular nurses and doctors. Leaks are going to happen. And if he lives (or is said to be doing fine) he is going to have to talk to reporters sooner rather than later. It would seem the VP would know instantly that he couldn’t downplay it too much for too long if whittington was really badly hurt.
That said, anyone getting shot is a serious thing, especially if you are 78 years old.
as for all the stuff about getting through a winter coat and such, maybe I missed it, but has anyone actually seen the coat. How thick was it? was it zipped at the time? How damaged is it now? Until you can see the actual damage and wounds, there is no way you can do anything except speculate.
My speculation? They knew immediately this accident was a disaster and the only part of it they could make better was to not let him talk to the cops with alcohol in his system (either a lot or a little).
So they circled the wagons and dummied up. It removed the certainty of creating a documented fact that the VP shot a man while under the influence, but replaced it with speculation that he did any number of awful things. Tough call, but as usual, not taking immediate responsibility always gets these guys screwed.
Remember a guy named Menezes over in England? The guy shot when he was ‘chased’ into the underground? Can you remember what he was wearing and if it was important?
If I recall correctly he definitely wasn’t wearing what the police claimed he was wearing.
I still think there’s another body out there somewhere.
You just never know…