(cross posted from Dkos)
The news out of South Dakota about a ban on abortion, even in cases of rape, has hit a lot of women hard, ripping away the protective coating covering very painful memories. The outpouring of women’s stories at BoomanTribune, and many other sites I have visited, is up front evidence of the lifelong impact of rape and sexual abuse, as well as the other ways in which male dominated cultures tends to devalue and disempower women.
Women are over half of the population. The facts on the ground are that over half of the population of this country lives every day knowing we are not truly safe anywhere there might be a rapist: a man who uses power and control as a weapon to take what he wants.
Facts on the ground are that while most men are appalled by rape and would never commit one themselves, men have not stopped it from happening every few seconds of every day, all over America.
Men charged with making and enforcing the law have not stopped it. The good and decent men who love and respect women have not stopped it. Women clearly cannot stop it on their own. And why are so many men shocked to learn of how many women they know and respect have been raped, many more than once? How did this all go underground again? How does a culture get like this?
The last time I was raped was long ago, and I share this short version only to try to answer that question.
I was in my 40’s then, and nearly dead from end stage alcoholism, when I joined the small town sobriety support group that consisted of mostly men. It was all there was there. It was not easy for me to trust men, but I slowly came to trust these men, especially one of them, a leader of the group with 25 years of sobriety. His name was Ben.
Ben offered to be my sponsor. I was honored and I accepted. He was a damned good one too. Until the night when I fell off the wagon and was sitting two thirds smashed on a bar stool, choking on shame and wanting to kill myself. I called Ben instead.
My last lucid memory is the wonderful sense of safety I felt as I laid my head on his strong, safe shoulder when he climbed onto the stool beside me, and told me I might as well have another; get it all out of my system now that he was there to take care of me.
The next thing I knew, it was morning. I was naked in a bed in a sleazy hotel room, aching from head to foot, watching Ben walk out of the bathroom in his shorts.
But even worse was learning later that every man in that group knew how Ben was, and had been looking the other way for many years. Even worse than that was finding four other women who had also been “sponsored” by Ben, but who still could not come forward, and wondering how many more there were we couldn’t locate.
This came about as a result of a culture that had devalued and objectified women for so long that it had become a societal norm. The men in that group who knew and had remain silent all those years were as guilty of the exploitation and rape of many very vulnerable women as Ben was.
I wish I could say it’s not still like this today. It may not be, in some settings, at least not as overtly. But the plain, unarguable fact is that rape and violence against women is just as prevalent, if not more so now as it was then.
How can this be seen as anything less that substantiated proof that what needs to change at the foundations of the male dominated American culture has not changed at all? Now even more proof is all around us, in the form of headlines such as just came out of South Dakota. All of the powerful men in control at all levels of this male dominated government, have allowed religious fanatics to buy their way into enough power to take away the women’s basic civil right to control of our own bodies.
For those who just could not understand why so many of us objected to the pie ads, this is why. Not because we’re prudes with no sense of humor or are behind the times. We objected because we know that this kind of ongoing (more sophisticated now) cultural objectification of women is one of the major factors that gave the kinds of men who raped us permission and justification to do so. And we know these are the kinds of men we still have to walk amidst in today’s American culture.
What I can’t figure out is did the women of my generation, and the ones before us, who fought this war before win, or did we lose? All I know for sure is this: I have two granddaughters: one 24 years old and the other ten months old.
When I held my first granddaughter in my arms, I was so proud of the world I was going to leave her and so excited about her wide open future.
When I hold little Ivy Rose, I can only say I am so sorry to leave her this one, and I feel genuine fear for her future.
I honestly believed women could set all of this right on our own, via our own sheer power and deteminition.
I no longer believe this is possible, not within a long established, male dominated, hierarchal structure as entrenched as this one is. Not without vast numbers of men also genuinely wanting it to change. Men with the courage to make those changes happen within themselves, then within their brother, and then to demand it of the men with power at the top of this pyramid.
Women, well, we will never stop fighting this war on the front lines. If you are very still, you will hear the vibrations of the vast underground network gearing up once again, to make sure we have systems in place to take care of women who desperately need abortions and emergency birth control or protection from domestic violence as the male dominated political pyramid grinds up our access to these things.
It is impossible for many of us to believe that spending more of our vital energy fighting within the current political system, as it operates now, is the solution, when it is that very system that has led us back to this. I understand what many of you are trying to do, and applaud your intent and wish you success. But personally, I have lost all faith in the power of politics to protect women.
What energies I have left to offer need to go directly where they are needed the most: to help protect the bodies and minds of other woman.
Don’t even ask how many rewrites this one took, but it’s up at the orange place. (sorry, I’ve never learned how to do links.)
HERE is the link, Scribe.
(it’s easy: just go to the story, cut and past the URL, insert it where you want it, then put BRACKETS around it text and URL).
[ HERE URL ]
I am a technoDUNCE. Who knew it’d be THAT easy?!
wow, thanks Stark for that, I have been doing it the hard way.
Scribe, wonderful diary, as all of your diaries are.
you may have to do it the hard way within other html commands (like w/i blockquotes).
And top of the recommend list already!!
Link Here
Recommended and commented there…
A critical part of the problem from my pov is that many men do not even seem to know how bad the problem is — witness the stunned reactions to how many women have been sexually victimized — and they still do not really understand what sexism is.
Men still seem to think that an act is only sexist if they intend for it to be sexist. And that’s simply not the truth — it’s not even how the word itself is defined. Any act or behavior, regardless of intent, that fosters the attitudes that contribute to enforcing unequal gender roles and subjugating women into a lesser powered sociopolitical class than men is definitively a sexist act.
From my pov, men who want to stop rape, and men who want to stop the ongoing cultural oppression of women, need to do two things immediately: 1) they need to understand that they do not really understand what sexism is, so they need to start listening to women when we talk about how men are acting in sexist ways, and they need to stopit, regardless of their intent; and 2) men need to start talking honestly and openly amongst themselves to locate & expose all the little ways in which a sexist culture that objectifies and subjugates women is communicated to the next generation of males, so that we may all learn to communicate different messages to the boys and girls who will become tomorrow’s men and women.
Now, men also need to realize that this will be very difficult and confusing. Not all women are the same. Not all women agree on what constitutes sexist behavior — not even all feminists agree on this, we all argue quite a bit. These conversations are incredibly difficult to have, and often extremely personal, which requires a kind of emotional vulnerability that will probably be more difficult for most men than it is for most women, but anyone who gives a shit about fixing inequality must do this work.
I just can’t help but think about how your points here Indy are exactly what Stark was saying a couple of weeks ago in some comments she made about “unintended bias” towards people of color, homosexuals and people who are physically disabled. I think there is an overall message from the two of you about the importance of listening and engaging in conversation across our differences. As you say, that does get difficult – but its absolutely necessary!!
Yes, yes, yes.
imo, the two points Indy brings up are absolutely fundamental.
Accordingly, they are the most difficult to make happen. If you think of it in terms of healing a wound–it’s like these two points are the deepest wounds–
I remember once coming back from Africa with an infection in my foot. It had begun as a ‘harmless’ blister. But anyone who’s traveled in the socalled 3rd world knows: there is no such thing as a ‘harmless’ blister when you are surrounded by bacteria for which you have no immunity. Whatever wound, no matter how small: DISINFECT immediately.
I didn’t. I was too tired after a day of walking. I didn’t have the proper topical antibiotic (only neosporin, what i’d needed would have been a prescription penicillin salve–which one guy in our party had but refused to share!). for three weeks, I kept putting neosporin on it, and it looked like it had healed. like I was out of the water.
three days after my return to Western civilization, I took the bandaid off for the first time since my return–a 2 inch stream of pus came at me. Shit. Ended up in the ER: the doc grabbed my foot and without warning scraped out the now 2 inch festering wound that was about a millimeter from eating into my tendon (in which case I would have lost my foot, probably).
While the doc was doing that–I could have killed him. The pain was excruciating. But it had to be done.
he had to dig down into the wound so deeply because it had festered for so long. And there was no NON Painful way to do that. (Note: I had first gone to a homeopathic, less invasive doc; she said: sorry girl, it’s gone too deep, I can’t do anything for you–so I had indeed already sought to heal the wound by the ‘kinder, gentler’-approach, twice actually–once by applying a less than aggressive enough topical antibiotic, and the second time through organic, homeopathic means .
If you take this as a metaphor for the wound that is afflicting men and causing them to do what they do (deny, tolerate or participate, sometimes unwittingly, in sexist behavior): there is no way around it–‘kinder, gentler’ methods are not going to work–nor will topical anti-biotics (like what I call ‘nice-iness) . The wound is too deep.
And when you get to the bottom of the wound–that’s when the ‘patients’ really start to squeal, to howl, to lash out, and do everything any wounded animal or human being would do when the doc digs in to the bottom of the wound. In the case of sexism: the bottom of the wound is in precisely the two points IndyLib addresses here.
I guess the short version of this is: healing HURTS.
Healing from DEEP wounds hurts like hell. And if it doesn’t, you’ve probably got a festering wound somewhere–just about to devour your tendon.
most people try to avoid this reality–and usually duck out just about the time the healing begins (was it Indy who had a similar point about this the other day?)
Excellent points, Stark, but then you know I already agree.
most people try to avoid this reality–and usually duck out just about the time the healing begins (was it Indy who had a similar point about this the other day?)
Without checking the thread, I think it was susanw. And she’s quite right, ime; I’ve been having these arguments for years and they all stop short or blow out at around the same point. It makes sense. It hurts like hell for men to realize that things they do that they think are innocent or even good are actually contributing to rape.
Of attitudes, opinions and beliefs so deeply ingrained that people are not even aware they have them.
On that basic level, all we are talking about is another kind of anti-Otherness, even though obviously there are many unique factors, all ethnic, racial, national, religious groups contain women. π
But within each of those groups one will find subjugation of woman in some way.
Every man believes his country has the most beautiful women, and his culture has the most superior method of oppressing them.
The idea that women everywhere be appreciated and loved for their true beauty, not their physical attributes and/or reproductive capacity, but respected as standalone human beings, just like us, and protected and cherished because they are especially precious standalone human beings who may be standing alone on slightly smaller feet, and to whom many of us give our hearts, is a distant, but I do not believe an impossible dream.
It will require some painful wound cleaning, to borrow from stark’s apt metaphor, but unlike poor stark and her hurt foot, we have the courage and nobility of women like scribe, and you, and the long list of ladies who have decided recently to share that courage, as an anesthetic to inspire us and help us begin the process.
DTF, I just love your writing. It so often brings out the impish in me – something that doesn’t happen often enough.
So, my resonse to what you wrote above is to tell you that I will NOT get into a shoe size comparison with you!! Not with these boats that are at the bottom of my legs. But then, I do notice that you said “slightly smaller feet” so who knows?
that her feet are just too damn small, so I thought I had better qualify the statement with a “slightly” in order to show my respect and keep people from noticing that I was suppressing a smile ;->
And unless your bench companions in the shoe store are either being hotly pursued or have already been captured by the basketball industry, you are quite wise in your decision not to get into a shoe size comparison with this owner of two ten toed cruise ships!
of having both women and men who had either been a victim or a perpetrator of date rape talk to high school kids.
Like most really good ideas, it is probably not feasible, since it is unlikely that any school would agree to it unless the person made abstinence the main thrust of their talk, and the difficulty of finding any men brave enough.
It could be very helpful. I think it is done sometimes in some school districts but I have no idea how common it is.
A fairly recent study* (disclaimer: I haven’t vetted this yet for accuracy and good research methodology) suggests that attitudes need to be changed before real progress can be made:
Sixty-two percent of students believed that a male is not at fault if he rapes a girl who dresses “provocatively” on a date. Significantly more females (45 percent) than males (31 percent) believed that the male is totally at fault.
Twenty-five percent of surveyed students said that it would not be rape for a male to get his date drunk and have sex with her after she has said “no” to sexual intercourse.
These are some of the attitudes that need to change.
*Telljohann SK, Price JH, Summers J, et al. High school students’ perceptions of nonconsensual sexual activity. J Sch Health 1995;65:107-112.
Almost 70% of teen males believe it’s not rape if she is dressed a certain way?
And a heart-stopping close to half of the potential victims agree?
This is not just a case of attitudes need to change, Indy. This is an indication of a social fabric that has completely broken down, and needs to be re-woven from freshly spun thread.
Like I said, I didn’t vet this study so I don’t know how accurate it is, but it reads very similarly to ones that I have vetted in the past. So yeah, we’re probably still looking at 60+% of boys and girls who think some measure of short-skirt wearing and midriff baring is a justifiable excuse for rape, with that group being comprised of more boys than girls by a pretty significant margin — along with a scary number who think a girl’s “no” doesn’t matter if she’s been drinking.
This is an indication of a social fabric that has completely broken down, and needs to be re-woven from freshly spun thread.
I feel that way a lot of the time. Some days I just want to rip everything apart at the seams. It is not a very popular opinion, however, so I often wind up just yanking on threads in whichever patterns I can mess with in the existing fabric.
to leave it, and go without the fabric at all, or to channel the anger, and the sadness, and the hope into spinning that fresh thread and weaving a new, stronger one of superior material and workmanship π
I confess that I’m often at a loss when it comes to how to change this situation for the better. Often blaming this or that kind of phenomenon, even if the blame is put sqarely at the feet of the right phenomenon to blame, sadly often doesn’t achieve the results we want to achieve. It might for a time highten the awareness of the issue and as such hopefully provide a path to a better future.
I keep looking for positive things that might help change the situation though. The study you referred to might provide one answer of what to do.
Society has more and more come to the correct understanding that rape isn’t about sex, rather it’s about power. Sadly, as the study you referred to shows, even females for the most part believe that the rapist isn’t totally at fault. The pretext that the a girl ‘was dressed “provocatively”‘ is just an excuse to exercise that “inherent” power men often internalize.
How to get rid of that presumption of “inherent” power?
As I’m not a psychologist or anything, all I have is common sense. It seems to me one starting point would be to, as women are prepared for their puberty – hopefully they are told of why and how their period works, men also have to be prepared for their puberty.
For a woman to be able to heal after being raped, she has to know none of it was her fault. For a man to not grow up a rapist (or sexist) he has to learn, from young age and forward, that same thing; having sex with a woman is a wonderful thing, but only if she’s in on it.
Read and Recd.
Men must be our allies in this. We must embrace their support and channel it to enact change.
(((Scribe))) I don’t think it’s a matter of winning or losing – Why do we have to think of this a “battle of the sexes?” I prefer the French attitude “Vive la difference!?”
Life is a learning process, it’s not a battle you can win or lose. It’s so annoying to hear about someone ‘losing their battle with a disease,’ because they aren’t really battling, they’re suffering, and their death is the only guaranteed part of their life. Why is it always a war on something?
We have kindred spirits and brothers and allies with us here. Our focus must be on our unity. We can work together and learn to celebrate our kinship and our difference that doesn’t really make a difference.
It’s coming slowly….slowly. Don’t despair.
In just a little over an hour, this diary jeads the rec list and has 96 recommends on DKos.
Thanks to all for helping me want to write it.
and say: <<<<<scibe>>>>>
Busy whacking a little troll over there…
Great work – great courage!
So glad are are in my corner! Is this why theres not been a whole of of nasty stuff? You’re pickin one by oone?
and lots of people are helping send him to troll banning. We’ve always got your back!
He’s in trouble now – he trolled in mcjoan’s front page story tee hee hee
Like Sallycat said the TU’s have only had to take out that one troll.
Out of 260 comments so far that’s a darn good ratio.
I think the comments have generaly been amazing… a few guys needed a little “enlightenment” but generally I think you’ve gotten great responses.
Thank you so much for having the courage to do this.
I need to get the hell out of there before this philoguy drives me nuts. He’s trying to say that since scribe was blacked out and can’t remember – she might have given consent – and therefore she was not raped.
What an ass – this guy is a nutcase. Time to let it go I think.
I hear you. I am done with him. He is one example of why so many women never tell at all.
The guy’s a jackass. It’s the catch 22 of engaging people like that. If you don’t try you feel like you haven’t done right. But you will NEVER win. Not with him. And so the more you argue, the happier you make him by giving him the attention. You’re right that its time to disengage.
I honestly thought this would scroll off without being noticed, as fast as they were rolling down. I most certainly never expected this reaction.
You know you are partly repsonsible don’t you Duke..I have one hell of a time resisting a challenge!
I thought these URLS/Resources might come in handy for you all–I’m certainly not entering the o-zone (!), but someone may want to cannibalize these URLS and fit them in somewhere over there…Note: I have not ‘vetted’ these orgs…so caveatemptor.
Men Can Stop Rape
Men Stopping Rape, Inc.
Stop Violence: Men Working to End Battering, Rape and Sexism
Stopping Rape: What Men can Do
Update. It still going on over there, 200 plus recs, nearly 200 comments, the marjoity of of which have been civil and positive…some nastier stuff beginning to seep in now, so time for me to head ONward and leave the scene. Thanks so much again everyone, for all your wonderful support: those recs belong to you as much as to me.
I just got online and have been over there reading and rec-ing. Your diary is really moving, and I thank you for writing it, posting it, and most of all, working for change! {{{scribe}}}
Thank you OLivia. It’s been a long day and I will be glad when it runs it course and disappears.
Hey scribe, I was glad you posted and glad I could participate in the discussion “over there.” I hope you feel good about it. I was pleasantly surprised that there was fairly little of the sort of nastiness we have seen in the past. A little bit, but not as much as I worried we might see. Maybe we have done something right. Anyway congratulations. π
Thanks for the support and yep, I think it went very over overall. I checked in early this am and it was still on the rec list but gone soon after that. The last commenter was a real prize but I squashed him like a cockroach and scraped him off my shoe on the way out the door!
Thanks, Scribe. I applaud your courage and I went to the Orange Place for the first time in ages to recommend your diary.
I couldn’t force myself to read through all the comments, though. Too much defensiveness and deflection as far as I am concerned. Still it is critical that the issue be discussed. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Thanks again.
Thank you too Kahli for the lovely comment you made and for going over there. Thanks all who usually don’t go there who went over there for this..I felt you all with me.
scribe,
I got in here late and I apologize for that. This diary is brilliant. But it looks like dKos is down for maintenaince right now. Coincidence?
Who knows, but hopefully your diary will still be up in the am so I can check it out there.
Did this help the way you hoped? Getting it out and posting it there? Even though you said it wasn’t about dKos?
Great work scribe and I want you to know it’s all on my mind and whenever I encounter an a%#hole who thinks it’s cool to treat women like dirt, you can rest assured I’ll have something to say about it.
Peace
I saw Dkos was down lasgt night, no connection to meI am sure. (I did kill my mouse yesterday, though. π
Yeah I’m glad I did this. One thing I learned was that there was more anger than fear that needed to be chenneled, in order for it to be read and not just be a target. Great backup from the pond too!
Thank you for your courage in sharing your herstory with us, scribe. I especially admire your willingness to post it at the orange place.
I sympathise with your view that male-female power relations, and women’s safety, will not be changed through the political system. That system is a reflection of the wider culture – or perhaps I should say of the culture’s nastier stereotypes. It will not change until there is widespread change in the broader culture/community.
You have yourself contributed some important steps towards changing the culture. First, you have not been silent or accepted that the rape was your fault. Second, by talking to other people about the experience you discovered that you were not alone as a survivor of this particular rapist. By doing that you probably assisted some of the other survivors. Third, you have provided solidarity and vindication to other survivors who have bravely posted their herstorys here. And fourth, you have contributed to the education (and in some cases, surprise) of many men in the blogosphere. Let us all try to be worthy of your challenge to change ourselves, our brothers, and eventually the wider society.
Changing someone as entrenched as this is going to take one hell of a long time..but I do think it will happen from the bottom up..not the top down. Every time any of us says “no” the the status quo, another brick is laid in the fondation of that new structure. It also imporatant ot know hjoow far we have come, too..just look. Men and women are actually talking about this together on a public forum! Never dreamed I’d see that day..never!
Then I look at my two powerful 40 something daughters, and my law student grandaughter, and I know the disempowerment and abuse of women in my own family, stopped with me and was not passed along to them. They grew up outside the prison of fundamentalist religion, hearing every day how powerful they were.
Now, it is so sweet for me to hear so many men and women who are so aware, busily raising kids differently that I was raised. Change is happenin..it’s happening.
(Oh dear, I’m terribly sorry to be so late to the “gathering that once was” . . . sigh)
Scribe, I am so damn proud of you Lady, there are simply no words to adequately express what I’m feeling right now.
Somehow, I had missed the chapter of your life contained in this diary (among all the other atrocities in the name of religion). And to witness what you have achieved on behalf of your daughters, and your daughter’s daughters, and everyone’s daughters . . .I’m truly at a loss for words. Bless you, on behalf of all the young ladies in my life.
ONward!
Thanks so much, A. You didn’t miss it, I hadn’t shared this piece before, or several other strange chapters. It’s been an eventful life. π