On March 7, 2006, David Lindorff wrote this in an article at Counterpunch. He was totally wrong on this, and Howard Dean emailed him to please correct it. Dean’s answer below. Lindorff implies it makes him get noticed as a journalist.
“While researching our book on impeachment (The Case for Impeachment: The Legal Argument for Removing George W. Bush from Office, St. Martin’s Press, due out in late April), my co-author Barbara Olshanshky and I have found that members of Congress-even firebrands like Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Cynthia McKinney (D-GA)-have been strong-armed behind the scenes by the Democratic National Committee not to introduce an impeachment bill in the House. Rep. John Conyers, the ranking minority member of the House Judiciary Committee, where such a bill would be considered, has submitted three bills that relate to impeachment-a proposal for a special committee to investigate possible impeachable crimes by the administration and bills to censure both the president and the vice president for refusing to answer questions from Congress on impeachment-related issues–but that’s as far as the Democratic congressional leadership is willing to go.”
Then he gets a letter from Howard Dean, and he gives a snip of it in this article, also at Counterpunch. He lost me at “it’s nice to be noticed as a columnist.”
Howard Dean Tells CounterPunch: DNC No Foe of Impeachment Drive
I got an personal email from Democratic National Committee Chair Howard Dean today. On a Sunday morning, the DNC chief wrote me to take issue with what I wrote on March 7 in this space. I said that pressure from Democratic party leaders was the reason not one member of the House has filed a bill of impeachment against our president for trashing the U.S. Constitution.
The article clearly hit a nerve.
“The DNC is not in the business of telling Congress to go easy on this President,” Dean wrote. “I’d be grateful if you could correct the report.”
It’s nice to be noticed as a columnist, and I will clarify my point. I agree with Dean that the DNC as an organization is not telling Congress anything.
Good for Howard for standing up for himself. Too bad he must fight the left and the right to do his job. We have a long way to go in this battle for the party’s soul. Not everyone will get everything they want. Life is just not that way. Honesty is always the best policy. You got noticed, Mr. Lindorff, because you told an untruth, not because you did a good job on that particular article.
This argument is a little disingenuous here.
The original Lindorff article blames “party leaders” & the DNC for the storng-arm tactics
& never specifically names Dean. Dean doesn’t actually deny the accusation, only says the DNC isn’t “in the business of telling Congress to go easy on this President” and notes that that the leadership does not “speak with one voice.”
Lindorff stands by his sources, & cites more in the 2nd article. It goes on to say after the last sentence you cited, that:
Lindorff’s criticism was & is valid.
While it’s nice that Dean is standing up for ‘himself’ here, it’d be much more useful if he’d stand up loud & clear for the Constitution. it would reassure the grassroots that he sees us as more than an ATM for the DNC.
And it was not true. He also wrote a long article saying the DNC under Dean was hurting candidates like Hackett. Dean stood up for Hackett. Lindorff is not aware of the various parts of the party.
is Dean not standing up for? Could you be specific?
“While it’s nice that Dean is standing up for ‘himself’ here, it’d be much more useful if he’d stand up loud & clear for the Constitution. it would reassure the grassroots that he sees us as more than an ATM for the DNC.”
What part does he not stand up for? You know, I believe in being fair. When the sites like this don’t care about being fair, then we are going to lose a lot.
Perhaps by not calling the President out on his unConstitutional endeavors? Like Feingold is.
If Dean wants to be the leader of the ‘left’ and by extension, the Democratic party, then he should start leading and calling a spade a spade and demanding justice.
Glad he chose to correct the impression that the whole DNC was against impeachment or censure, but he didn’t articulate why then his party is continuing to allow the President to break the law.
I guess I could not post all the times he has called Bush out on his lies and outrages.
Jeez, do you ever have your blinders on, or the cult of personality going here with Dean.
He is the head of the Democratic party. He should be speaking out on a daily basis about how Bush has, is and will continue to, violate the Constitution and take away American citizens rights. He has a soapbox. He should use it.
Nothing at all wrong with pointing that out and being pissed that he isn’t standing up for your rights by supporting Feingold publicly.
Like I said, I like Dean. But I don’t worship him, nor do I worship any politician. To get all offended because people take issue with his strategy and tactics as leader of their political party is a tad undemocratic and counter-productive don’t you think?
He does it just about every day.
No, I don’t have blinders on. Sorry you are pulling the worshippy crap on me. That is beneath you.
I don’t give two hoots and a holler whether he loves Howard Dean or hates him.
He did not tell the truth. He has done it before. He does NOT understand the groups in the party. He refuses to correct misinfo when he hears from us, so Dean finally wrote him.
I am so sad you are making this about Dean worship. We have a long way to go to get this country going again…and I am doing things I best I can.
Lindorff lied, and he said he was glad he got noticed. He probably did not mean to lie, but he did.
Man oh man floridagal, this is the last time I’m going to attempt to communicate with you on this.
I said I got he lied. I explained why a blog is a dynamic relationship and that people have every right to take acception to something you write. I also attempted to explain how your immediately hostile responses to people who read your diary and tried to express themselves to you is coming across as hero worship of Dean. I apolgize for that, but that’s how it felt at the moment as you continued to ignore everything else I wrote and went on the offensive, again, about something I wrote about Dean. You seem to be the one in this thread who started making it all about him vs. the points that Arcturus raised about the article itself. I was merely answering your accusatory comments subsequently.
Post away. I got the point, the guy lied. I don’t really read Counterpunch that often anyway as they can be sloppy with the facts. Okay, story told, moving on.
He refuses to correct misinfo when he hears from us, so Dean finally wrote him.
Do you work for the DNC?
I see the way this is going here. It worries me that speaking truth means so little to our side.
No, I belong to the Democratic party as a citizen, and I support it as the best way to change things…
I also belong to DFA.
I speak what I think, though it is not popular here at Booman anymore. It was popular when I was ranting against the party. Then I made a decision that the party was the best way to go. Now what I post is not liked at all here. I never post things that are not true, and I always try to be fair.
Many of us wrote Lindorff when he said the DNC was hurting candidates like Hackett. Actually that was the DSCC under Schumer. Dean took up for Hackett, said “skullduggery” was going on in the party.
The Democratic Party has a lot of good people. Believe it or not, I am one of them. I am a good guy.
And we are too. Maybe not assuming everyone is the enemy right off the bat would help some.
The good guys are the people who refuse to back down and are trying to change the Dem party for the better… by letting the ‘leaders’ and the money men know what it means to be democratic and stand on principle against tyranny.
A lot of people on Boo get out on the street and try to get people to vote Dem. A lot of people are working for change. But the only way to get to change is to give people something to believe in. Right now the Dems on masse are not doing so, under the same old same old corpotocracy structure that McAuliffe, Clinton and Lieberman embody. Perhaps giving people something more than a kinder-gentler republican is the way to go.
And that doesn’t mean we don’t support the Dems in Nov. It just means we support the ones who support us. And it’s not like we’re not being vocal about it and letting them know what the ‘base’ wants… so riddle me this, why is that so much to ask? And what are they afraid of?
Now that’s another way good people work for the party and America. Or should I say… America and then the party.
I just posted the pics from our rally yesterday at my homepage.
I work hard on the ground, phoning, and writing.
This post was about truth, and about someone taking up for themselves.
It turned into something very ugly. It turned into something that makes it sound like the truth on the left doesn’t have to be as true as the truth on the right.
I am glad I posted it because it clearly shows that a huge effort is made to scramble and defend what should be indefensible, an untruth. We should hold our side to that as well.
I am sorry, not for posting this, but for what has happened here….and I am not sure what that is. It is not all my fault, you know. I simply demanded the truth.
No, I don’t.
I belong to the Democratic party
Good for you. I belong to no party.
The Democratic Party has a lot of good people. Believe it or not, I am one of them.
So what. The repubs, the greens, the whathaveyou also have a lot of good folks. Doesn’t mean I can’t question them does it.
I am a good guy.
That’s great. What am I supposed to take from this? I think the dems could use some “bad(ass) guys” to get elected then we can talk about what the party can do, because from my POV they ain’t done shite to help working people like me for a long, long time. In fact if they can’t help, then they should do the right thing and get out of the way.
pax
But not everyone thinks Howard Dean’s great!
That was the point ofthis post. It somehow got turned to make Dean the bad guy, and me the fall guy.
LOL. Yeh, Street Kid, I know he is not popular here. Neither am I.
Yes I do–which is the reason that I obtain all of my news off the net, as opposed to MSM. I feel that the truth is important, as demonstrated by my writings re: Medicare D(isaster).
But, I also agreed w/Artucus that the article that you linked to was written by a writer doing his job! Personally, I did not see a thing wrong with it, and, as I said downthread, that remark about being noticed was meant as a joke.
Look, you don’t have to fight Howard Dean’s battles for him, which is exactly what you have been doing lately. I’ve read a lot of your older stuff on dkos, and you have written so much better in the past. Only thing that I can come up w/is that you are too stressed out by wtf is going on w/all gwb’s shit and are taking it out on everyone else.
And, if you are thinking that is the way to get people to support the dems, you are making a BIG mistake, especially when there are others who have been going thru worse.
Just something to consider…
Why is that ok with you? Why are you saying I am fighting Dean’s battles, when I am fighting for things that were posted that were not true.
Never mind. I know what is going on.
I am glad I posted it. Maybe some will see the DNC did not do it. Maybe some will see that are many parts to tne party.
Maybe some will see what I was aiming for, but most will not. Making it personal about me, putting me down…does not change the fact that Lindorff ignored other emails until he was contacted by Dean.
I am not trying to get anyone here to support Democrats. I quit that. I know it is useless. I posted the truth, and it was turned on me.
Now that is not a good thing.
Oh my god, get over yourself and take the time to actually think.
Re-read EXACTLY what you wrote and who made this all about Dean to begin with.
First of all, no where in the original diary do you say he refused to answer others emails. Nor do you appear to have any proof of that.
Second, Arcturus actually challenged you on the facts, or potential truth, in the article which you made all about Dean being the DNC. Like I said, the DNC are many people, not just Dean. And Arcturus is right, he didn’t actually deny the charges. Although that is an arguable point and one i would be willing to conceed.
But you didn’t argue him on those points, you chose to get pissy about his last statement, which was that he didn’t agree with Dean not standing up with Feingold for the Constitution.
Then, the icing on the cake, you respond to an honest question about something you wrote about “the left” by ed dalesio, which didn’t have anything to do with Dean, but with your characterization of the Dem party with this:
Umm… so who was it who made this all about Dean again? And then have the gall to claim this is because you speak truth and we don’t like you? Please. Chill out.
as Street Kid said. Later.
I am not at all sorry I posted it. I am sorry that it was made to be about me as a person, instead of about David Lindorff and Counterpunch not being careful about researching what they print.
Did you notice he said this was research for a book? That is one reason it alarmed me so. I hope this won’t be going into the book. Research for a book which said this:
It was not true, yet it was turned into truth…turned into something that was ok because I did not have a good tone to my voice. When he says “strong-armed by the Democratic National Committee” he was referring to the organization with Dean as chairman.
I think he simply did not know about the DSCC and the DCCC. But it was wrong.
I understand I am person non grata here. I wish it were different, but so be it.
you’re not persona non grata as far as I am concerned…
.
And like I said, no one in this thread said she was.
You’re not. Thanks for a reasonable and straight forward reply. I don’t know enough about him to be able to judge if he would have associated the DSCC and the DCCC with the DNC, so I can’t really claim to be able to argue the point one way or another.
Perhaps Waters or McKinney would care to go on the record about if they felt pressured… and if so, by whom? And if it was the DCCC or the DSCC, which are a part of the DNC, can we prove he didn’t know they were and was in fact slandering Dean’s leadership of the DNC?
On a kind of related note, it’s a good sign Dean is open to reading what’s going on at Counterpunch. I assume he probably has staffers keeping track of a big chunk of the liberal blogosphere then. Not just big orange.
Look, floridagal, I said it earlier and I’ll say it again
And everyone is stressed. But, for the love of God, PLEASE stop expecting everyone to agree with everything that you post. And, stop arguing w/those who don’t. All you are doing is pissing people off by arguing, and, those that are pissed at you will not give any serious consideration to whatever point you are trying to make.
So you’re stubborn, great, so am I! I’m throwing my energies into reading and writing about Medicare D(isaster). You’re throwing all of your energies into DFA. On that note, would it be possible to get your DFA group to start cranking out some LTE’s and contacting congresscritters? Here is a link to ALL of the Medicare D(isaster) diaries that I have written.
It would be very much appreciated, as many who are caught in this nightmare have no one to advocate for them.
Thanks.
That is an ugly thing to do. If you feel better now, fine with me.
No, I am no more stressed out than any others here. I see many who are more stressed than I am.
I posted about truth. And it was turned into something very dishonest…it was turned on me.
I don’t think people actually realized they did it, either.
I am rather stunned you posted that. It was not very polite.
And here I thought that a DFA group would be interested in advocacy on behalf of those who are unable to do so! Don’t expect an apology from me for asking your social club to actually do something that would benefit others!>
Also, by this particular post you that I am responding to, you have single-handedly convinced me that DFA doesn’t give a damn about those who were unable to get their rx’s, wound up in the hospital, have to choose between food and rx’s or, those who will die on account of this!
Tells me that your DFA people are all talk and no action. And that is the truth!!!
I can not believe this is going on here.
I have found NO DFA group that is willing to advocate for changes in Medicare D–changes that are needed and specific examples from various independent news sources that are linked to in every diary. Seems to me that DFA would be very much interested in scoring a few political points to show dissatified former democratic voters (who will be voting Green) against the republicans. Guess not–the social club is more important than the results!!
Otherwise, you would have said yes and acted upon it, as opposed to whining “poor me, everyone picks on me.”
I cannot believe that someone who boasts the importantce of the truth is unwilling to help more of it come out. Your ego is more important than the fact that people are sick and dying as a result of being not able to get their rx’s. NOT!!!!
Finally, I AM very actively involved in working to get Medicare D(isaster) changed. And am shocked at the lack of response I get from DFA, when the fact that Howard Dean is also a doctor is considered!
Talk about selfish and inconsiderate–you wrote the book!
A lot of these political groups have people who are affluent enough to actually purchase the medicine for the people in their own communities who are suffering because of Medicare D(eath).
I know the other night we did not have much luck coming up with politicians who had done this, it would be a way that these groups could send them a message, and maybe give them some ideas.
The gestures are fine and understandable, they are politicians, but buying medicine for the people would be something that might be politically risky, since it would be in effect obstructing US policy, but they get called obstructionists anyway, so the net difference would be that some more people would get their medicine!
So is yours–I just wanted to get the word out, but actually purchasing rx’s for those who can’t afford them is even better!!! That is great–no pun intended, but could actually kill a couple birds w/one stone!
It’s a relief to see that I wasn’t the only person who felt that way!
That last passage in particular suggests what Dean as party chair is up against.
Dean is NOT the DNC, as Arcturus points out, and as I believe is implicit in Lindorff’s writing. So it is good that Dean is standing up for ‘himself.’
Much of the party’s leadership seems caught in some sort of strange timewarp, for lack of a better way of expressing it. The reality on the street has changed a bit, and if the party’s leadership doesn’t figure it out, they’ll keep losing elections when and where it matters most.
My main question is what’s the payoff (from the standpoint of the party’s various leaders) for remaining a minority party? What’s reinforcing behaviors by many of the party’s leaders that are otherwise counterproductive?
Too bad he must fight the left and the right to do his job.
Wait a minute! Isn’t the Dems the left? You know…out to help the little guy, the workers?
I refer to the DLC types on the right, and I refer to the ones on the left who want him to fail. I guess I found the magic word here.
I refer to the ones on the left who want him to fail.
Who on the Democratic left wants him to fail?
What magic word?
I presented the case clearly. I gave sources, quotes, and links. I should have known not to post about him here. I goofed.
I don’t think it’s Dean that anyone is taking offense to, it’s your argument and wording as you presented them that are drawing criticism.
I like Dean. But Dean is not the entirety of the DNC. He’s just the outspoken “leader”… and yes I used quotes because the DNC has been fighting against Dean since he was elected leader.
And yes, the Dems are supposed to represent the left so how they are fighting against the left, unless they don’t truly represent the left, I have no idea. Perhaps you meant “some of the Dems supporters on the left”? Or, “members of its own party”?
a reporter who doesn’t print the whole truth, has to be corrected by many people several times, then by the chairman of the party?
Why is not ok for me to have a “tone” when the left media spins almost as badly as the right.
I have been told I have a “tone” here so often, I seldom come here. I think truth is important. I think we can not have a Democracy without it.
You are very right, it is not about Dean. It is about a reporter who thinks his importance grew because he was corrected. That is not true. He got noticed because he did not tell the truth.
I do not expect the Democrats to be perfect, and I believe that many in the party are trying to bring change. I realize I have not fitted in here for a long time. If I have something to post, I post it.
I am not an idealist. My life experiences have made me a realist. However when a reporter does not tell the truth, I hold him to account, no matter what side he is on.
I agree with that. But you lose your point and people get distracted by your wording and not being precise with language and miss your point about the reporter. just human nature and since you seemed to be getting agitated about people pointing those things out I figured I’d try and help clarify a bit so perhaps we could move on from the animosity and actually have a discussion.
To tell the truth, if all you’re going to do is post a piece on a public blog and then get mad when people decide to talk about something you don’t want them to, maybe you shouldn’t post. That’s what diaries are. People take out of them what they will. And if they disagree with something you or the subject you are writing about says then they should be able to as part of the process of interacting with your piece.
Just sayin’.
And yes, the remark about being recognized was not something a journalist would write. And he was sloppy with the original piece, however, like I said, Howard Dean is only a small portion of the DNC. So to be more accurate and precise, if the reporter had the facts as he claims, he should have worded it differently.
But I also think Arcturus’ argument above is a valid one as well as to the DNC in general vs. Feingold.
I thought was I very specific. But now everytime I post here I am told I am defensive and use the wrong words, yet I tell the truth and expect it.
It’s ok, though. I did not come here for a popularity contest.
I worded it well.
I read the item at Counterpunch. So.
You said those on the left (& DLC) are some how hoping Dean fails. I asked who that might be. Now unless this one guy or even every one at Counterpunch is the left, I fail to see how the left is hoping for Dean’s failure. I also don’t see where this writer says he is hoping Dean fails. I mean he’s a journalist and he is doing what journalist are supposed to do, challenge power and get to the truth.
Now he is thinking he is more important because of it. If that is ok with you, fine. I wrote a good OP, nothing wrong with it. If you wish to defend a reporter who said something not true, that is your right.
He was not challenging power in a truthful way. Dean called him on it. If you challenge power, you do it truthfully.
Nice to meet you, hope it goes better the next time.
Chill out!!!! That nice to be noticed was a joke.
Sorry, but when I am right, I get very stubborn. Lindorff “specifically” said that the Democratic National Committee was telling the congress people not to support going after the president.
Dean corrected him because he was wrong.
And Counterpunch is being excused all the place here, and I am the bad guy.
The DNC did NOT do what Lindorff said it did. I am glad he corrected it. It is a shame he did not correct it sooner. But he did.
I am not the bad guy this time.
We’re talking apples and oranges re: quotes from the article. Chill out!!
Later.
I have done nothing wrong.
This is starting to get amusing.
I have already explained in detail why I believe you misrepresnted the point of Lindorf’s opinion article here, which has been ignored. Repeating ad naseum that he lied doesn’t add anything to a discussion. Claiming he “corrected” it is, to me, stretching the context of the article. Obviously good people of reasonable minds can differ as to the truth of the facts in this situation.
I did not respond to you as I quoted it again. Now you are again accusing me of not presenting the truth. So here it is again.
It is research for a book Lindorff is writing, and that is what alarmed me so much. Will he put that statement in his book? I believe it was an innocent mistake, but he was told about it days ago. He ignored the mails. He made it sound like Dean was doing it, and it was not true.
I don’t believe that you responded to any of the points that I, or others, brought up. Reading the reast of the thread, I gather you’re not interested in discussing it. That’s fine. I read the whole thing differently — cutting & pasting the same quote won’t alter that view.
Lindorff obviously stands by his congressional sources — you may not like what they’re saying, but it doesn’t alter the fact that people in Washington are saying it.
There’s a reason for the phrase the Conyers’ treatment has currency — it’s because of the tepid support for his resolution outside the black caucus. Read again what you keep quoting: but that’s as far as the Democratic congressional leadership is willing to go
Maxine Waters & (particularly) Cynthia McKinney have a long history of being ignored & treated like shit by the democratic leadership.
The fact remains that there is no formal impeachment bill on the floor.
Lindorff’s been calling out the media & the democratic leadership to catch up to their enraged base. If that gets Dean & the DNC off their butts, more power to him!
these politicians would take such a position? Democrats are already unfairly smeared as opposing the president, even opposing US policies, they are called leftists if they suggest so much as outsourcing the wetwork, or asserting that they can run the crusade better than Bush.
It’s also worth noting that Bush has decreed that it is a crime even to suggest that he has committed a crime. And on what grounds can Democrats call for his impeachment, if not for acts of crime?
It is an election year, and the last thing that a Democrat politician needs are suggestions that he or she does not support the war on terror. It is a very different kind of war.
That is what I am getting. I will repeat the post I made to you twice if you want me to.
What is it you want me to respond to other than that?
I don’t think you understand just what Lindorff did. I really don’t think you read my numerous responses.
I am stunned frankly, that you don’t hold the same standards of truth for all media.
Please let me know what it is I failed to respond to clearly enough. Lindorff said it was the Democratic National Committee who was strongarming.
Dean is chairman of that committee, he said he was not doing it….bottom line.
Please list what you want me to respond to without again saying I misrepresented. I try to honest and truthful.
Boy, this really upset the applecart…didn’t it? It was only the truth I was after.
with Waters and McKinney. I admire them and I doubt they would tell a lie about him. He often worked closely with the progressive caucus long before he was chairman.
I am stunned.
Thanks for posting this Floridagal.
The thread is narrowing out so much, I will post this at the end of it.
I don’t want to leave here thinking anyone thought I was lying.
Please list whatever it is you want me to answer, and I will do so.
I have never posted a lie in my time on the internet, nor do I intend to. By saying I misrepresent, you are hurting me a lot.
If I don’t see a list of what you want, I won’t have any way of knowing what I failed to answer.
I will then try a new post, I guess. If for no other reason than to clear my name about misrepresenting.
You may not realize that my husband and I have actually realized the severity of the Medicare D problem, and we have worked with people locally to help them get their medications.
I make you an offer, Street Kid. You said I was heartless and uncaring. I offer to provide some money for medication to those who need it. We have done it locally, and there must be a way.
If you give your address to Booman, he can send it to me. I will get with our local DFA group and see if anyone else can donate. I will also volunteer to present it to the proper folks at DFA.
I am not rich, but I am neither heartless nor uncaring. We almost lost our drug coverage, but the retirement group came through in time to keep it for this year.
Consider the offer, and judge not that ye be not judged.
comment. I think it would be a great project for any political group, or any group of any kind, really, to take up.
People could organize Medicine Shop-Ins, work with pharmacies in their community, I think it could be a very effective act of civil disobedience, with a very beneficial side effect for the patients who need their “rxs,” as Street Kid calls them.
I was also inspired by a diary Boston Joe did a little while ago, about people doing things in their communities, maybe small things, like listening and learning, what needs are.
It could be that some folks might not know who in their community is being hurt by this particular operation, there are a lot of elders especially, who live alone and there are people who would like to help them but don’t know about them.
Groups could help in that way, too, and getting to know those elders and others in the less affluent areas, could incite other projects, too, quite independently from what politicians do or don’t do.
Maybe they might feel like it’s best for them to stick to the gestures and speeches, but that doesn’t mean their devotees have to do that! š
I guess my point is that we should not go judging each other.
I don’t like the way this thread was turned into something against me, but if I get lemons I try to make lemonade.
It is hard to help medical wise, but some of us work to point the way to help. If a prescription is within our financial limits we help on them.
Ironically this is one of the biggest themes that Dean and DFA have railed against…this horrible plan. People just don’t take time to find out stuff about others. There is a post there tonight about it at DFA.
I stand by my OP, I will check back later to see what Arcturus wants me to respond to….and then I will most likely not bother much here. I believe in finding facts before attacking, and I did not see that tonight.
Yes, my hubby and I are quite active in helping people at least within our financial limits.
And I was not really suggesting that it would be something that any of the politicians would want to be involved in, not an ideal photo-op.
Even for those who did not vote in favor of the operation, it would be making a very public act of defiance to US domestic policy, not to mention a slap in the face to the pharmaceutical companies who spent a great deal of their own money to get the project launched, and who are known to be quite generous when campaign contribution time rolls around, there is also an element of biting the hand that feeds them.
While here, thanks to Street Kid’s diligence at keeping the issue at the forefront, we hear of some statements, some gestures, and as you indicate, this is not the only forum where the effects of the measure are criticized, however we are talking about forums, about population sectors, where more than one policy is criticized daily, there are also population sectors who support it.
As to those politicians who voted for the operation, and private citizens who support it, that is not in my opinion, something that can really be judged by human beings. That is God’s job, that is his problem.
Regarding private citizens who prefer to keep their actions low-key for whatever reason, I do not intend to pass judgment. On the contrary, there is much to be said, quite apart from political considerations, for keeping one’s good deeds on the down low. The important thing, after all, is that people get their medicine. And certainly few private citizens can afford to do that for many people. They may have family members of their own that need this help, reducing further their ability to help the neighbors of those family members.
Like the little boy throwing crabs back into the sea, one by one, each crab he throws will be an act of momentous importance to that crab and his loved ones.
And I do not intend to suggest that either Medicine Shop-Ins nor the quiet acts of private citizens acting alone would solve the problem, or come anywhere near to addressing need. They would only throw a few crabs back into the sea.
The value, and I believe, the effectiveness of such an action lies largely in the very reasons politicians would be unlikely to wish to participate openly. As an act of civil disobedience, as a blatant and unapologetic obstruction and rejection of the policy, it would have incitement potential, and could result in saving a few crabs more, at least for a month or two.
And during that month or two, maybe there would be more Medicine Shop-Ins, larger ones…
It could be that some folks might not know who in their community is being hurt by this particular operation, there are a lot of elders especially, who live alone and there are people who would like to help them but don’t know about them.
Groups could help in that way, too, and getting to know those elders and others in the less affluent areas, could incite other projects, too, quite independently from what politicians do or don’t do.
And, it is not all senior citizens. Many people with disabilities are forced to live below the povery level and are also in need of assistance. And, again, people with disabilities are often limited to their purchases.
Like you said, a medicine shop-in is not for everyone. But, in light of the increases in co-pays, some/most are made at the state level, that does create a burden on people who are directly effected. (The true stories that I could tell…)
email sent to BooMan.
I forwarded it along.
Thanks!!!
Dean is DNC Chairman, but he certainly doesn’t have the backing of the whole party.
He is a professional politician, and he covered his back from his enemies by his PROFESSIONALLY “politic” answer to the Counterpoint writer.
He can parse with the best of them.
And he did.
Here is what appears to be happening within the powers-that-be that control the Democratic Party.
There is a majority who seem to think that middle of the road stuff…step by step, right down the middle…will best get rid of BushCo and the Ratpubs in November. That any violent, aggressive movements will spook the sheeple and the Dems will lose once again.
There is also a small…but powerful…minority who have either been thoroughly and completely bought off by various interests…corporate, Israeli, CIA.,..or are flat-out Ratpub moles. They add THEIR weight to the “leave it alone and let it play out as it must” routine because they know damned well…probably better than the moderates…just how crooked the scene really is and what would happen if the seams on the bag of deceit that is holding all of this shit together started to publicly come apart due to attacks from the Dems. What a landslide victory COULD be achieved if the truth were plainly told. They are fighting a holding action, acting as a fifth column inside the Dem structure, and behind the scenes they work FOR BushCo interests. I am almost positive that’s what happened to Hackett in Ohio, for instance. Schumer has…conflicting interests. BET on it. No one who is the slightest bit critical of Israel or poses a danger in any way to the status quo in the Middle East is getting by him.
Follow the money if you doubt this.
And then there are the “radicals”. Conyers, Feingold, et al…who have been fanning up an agressive anti-Bush-by-any-means-necessary breeze since the 2004 election. I personally think that they are right in this, that this is REALLY the direction to take…in their face, and damn the torpedoes…but they are WAY outnumbered.
Outgunned, too.
Dean has to represent ALL of these factions.
Tough job.
Parsing required.
So far…he has succeeded in implementing his DNC money-to-the-grassroots plan.
BY BEING A POLITICIAN.
Politics. As in “polite”.
“P’.
For “parsing”.
Crafty.
If the Dems lose in November…if they do not take control of at least ONE house on Congress…he gone.
BET on it.
His grassroots, equal effort in every state tactic will be considered a failure by the moderates, and his truly anti-establishment stance (as far as a mainstream politician CAN be “anti-establishment”, anyway) always has the moles on edge.
If they do…new ballgame.
He’s just trying to survive until then. Surrounded by powerful hustlers who you can bet do INDEED put pressure on less powerful members of Cangress to hold their fire.
For any number< of reasons.
We shall see…
November is going to be interesting times.
Bet on it.
Stay tuned.
AG
by all the methods employed in this thread, excusing Lindorff, blaming Dean for being a politician, blaming me for having a bad tone…
All of these tactics were used here because a writer at Counterpunch was caught being untruthful.
It was turned into something that blamed those who were innocent and defended themselves.
Not a single person on this thread that I can see said it was wrong for a writer at Counterpunch to not tell the truth. No one. None.
If that is the truth of some of the progressives, I want none of it. I was even accused here of being a bad guy for belonging to DFA, I was asked I worked for the DNC, I was told I supported the Medicare D plan…where did that come from.
It was ironic that a thread was up at DFA at that moment about the Medicare D plan. But silly little things like that don’t matter. Protecting the left media from accountability matters.
The one thing I have not seen on this thread is that Counterpunch did not tell truth. The tactics were used that turned it against the victim of the lie, and then against me.
Many here can spout pretty phrases about fixing things, but you don’t demand truth from our side.
I was right to post this, I am very very glad I did. Even though it was turned into making me something bad, I think most people saw through what was going on.
It had nothing to do with my “tone”, or my “attitude”. It had to do with people thinking the left media does not have to be accountable as long as they are “pure”.
Peace, I guess.
The single most iconic line in a movie over the last 30 years has to be:
“The truth? You can’t HANDLE the truth!!!”
The real truth, floridagal, is this…
There IS no “truth” here. Only he said, she said.
And Howard Dean split the difference with William Tell-like precision.
As did David Lindorff.
Two really good “truth” parsers.
Can you handle that?
‘Cuz that’s what this whole tempest in a teapot is about.
The various truths here?
1-There are big-time Dems putting various forms of pressure on smaller Dems to stay in line. The BIG time line as defined by the bosses. Reid, Clinton, Schumer, et al. YOU know. The ones who ducked and covered when Feingold threw his bomb.
“I didn’t read it”
“No comment.”
“It’s too early to comment.”
Etc.
Parsing the news.
The same ones who took the same line about the election theft.
About the Iraq War.
About the Patriot Act.
Dems in good standing with the Permanent Government, awaiting THEIR turn at the head of the chow line if they are good boys and girls.
Lindorff was NOT “lying”. It’s just that people are not speaking for attribution. Not if they want big-time Dem monetary help to get re-elected they are not. BET on it.
Feingold took a chance. But he is free to take that chance because he does not so much depend on national Dem money to get elected. The very first part of his electoral platform in 1992, his promises to Wisconsin voters? (Wikipedia)
“#1. I will rely on the Wisconsin citizens for most of my contributions.”
One smart pol. That ONE FACT has freed him to speak his mind.
He does not HAVE to fear the Democratic policy makers and career breakers.
2-Dean is a mistrusted outsider for most of them. The PermaDems. A loose cannon. A compulsive truth teller. (Again…as far as politicians go. Remember…there IS no truth here. Only shadings.) They kicked him upstairs to the DNC and he has fooled them one more time, to a large degree. The “truth” DOES matter, even if the messenger is forced to speak in code.
PARSE code.
Now as far as “you” are concerned…
Naaaah…nevermind.
Go take a deep breath somewhere and call your grandchildren. No one’s out to get you.
We are just trying to find whatever truth remains after the non-truth code-talkers are finished parsing their way through the thickets of politic-speak.
That’s all…
AG
Lindorff said it was the DNC holding people back from supporting impeachment. Bottom line…what Lindorff said was not true.
It has been parsed once again into telling me to talk to my grandchildren, and saying no one is out to get me.
Well, I am saying that telling the truth is important for Counterpunch, just as important as for the NYT or WP.
It has been excused here by making me the issue for my tone, and making Dean the issue for being a politician.
The bottom line still remains, and will remain unless someone speaks up….the truth was not told after repeated attempts to correct the reporter. Now he is still being excused for not telling the truth on the grounds that I have a bad tone and Dean is a politician.
That is wrong. Why not say it?
Why not say it?
Because it’s not the truth, floridagal.
Not as far as I can see.
AG
And I lie, and when the DNC chairman sends the email, he lies.
Gotcha. Your message is clear. Arcturus told me I was “misrepresenting”, and I asked for clarification. I have gotten none so far.
I have never been told I lie or misrepresent. That must be a new low.
Misunderstand.
Diuferent.
AG
Just wanted to chime in here and say I ALWAYS read and enjoy your diaries, floridagal. I like your “tone”. I not only understand the point you were making in the diary, I absolutely agree with it.
I do appreciate your kind words. I don’t understand how I misrepresented, but it appears that is what is thought here. I could re-present my case, cover it all over again, but Counterpunch would still be excused, and I would still be misrepresenting.
Something’s wrong with that picture.