Busby Fails! GOP passes litmus test!
Tester loses! Victory for “moderates”!
Siegelman beats Baxley!
All this may happen today. In fact, all of this is likely to happen today. [UPDATE: Not!!! We got at least two of these–in landslide massacres. Hearty congrats to Tester and to Baxley, who have apparently won their races HANDILY. Bravo! Now let’s pull for a Busby breakthrough…In any case, however, consider the GOP and the D.C. Dem Establishment firmly on notice!] Like all of you, I’m hoping it doesn’t. Like most of you, I’ve sent in my money and even donated some of my time to one or more of these wonderful candidates. And yes, I’m on pins and needles.
But it could certainly happen today–much to our collective chagrin, and subsequent depression.
But if all of these headlines above DO come to pass, there’s a message I want to share with all my fellows here on the left:
Chill. These are already extraordinary achievements, WIN OR LOSE.
Why? Here are a few reasons.
1) These are not exactly progressive-friendly areas. Yes, I know that true progressivism, done right, can and should appeal to even those in the most rural and ostensibly conservative areas: ideas such as conservationism, competence, self-direction, common good and privacy rights are universals. But let’s not kid ourselves.
We’re talking about Montana here. And San Diego. And Alabama. These aren’t just long-shots for progressives: they’re half-court shots.
I’m not saying we should settle for moral victories–we shouldn’t–but let’s be realistic, here. These areas are so progressive-unfriendly that moral victories and close shaves here are almost guarantees for actual victories in friendlier areas. And getting depressed about possible losses in these areas, as if they were the end all and be all (that would be November, remember…) and as if we should be expected to win here, is so counterproductive that it’s almost falling into a GOP talking point.
———————–
2) The bellwether arguments don’t wash. Never forget this. Especially about the Busby election. Pundits who call the Busby election a “bellwether” are stupid. Busby shouldn’t even be competing in this race. It’s a terribly long shot.
Calling the Busby election a “bellwether” would be like having a 14-year-old boy shoot layups, and having Michael Jordan shoot half-court shots–and then saying that the results are a “bellwether” of who would win a one-on-one matchup. That’s insane. That Busby has even made it this far is a testament to how low the GOP has sunk. Never forget that.
And as for the other two races? Calling a couple of progressive/DLC races in Montana and Alabama a bellwether for the prospects of progressives in the national Democratic Party goes so far beyond stupid that words for it don’t belong in polite company.
————————————-
3) All politics is local. And missteps abound.
If Busby loses today, it will probably have been because of her recent “gaffe.” Elections are unpredictable, and hinge largely on local issues–no matter what the general politics wave is.
In statistics, there is a rule about sampling: the smaller the sample set versus the general population, the fewer conclusions can be drawn about the general population from it, and the higher the margin for error.
To take two or three races happening today, and attempt to draw conclusions about our prospects in hundreds of of races occurring nationwide, is pointless. People make gaffes. Individual and local issues come up at the last minute. It’s an unpredictable game.
————————————-
4) These races are receiving unnatural amounts of attention.
The GOP has been spending an enormous amount of money to defeat Busby–way more than they would if this were just another November race.
Same goes for the Democratic DLC establishment trying to defeat Tester.
The glare of the intense spotlight heightens every move, and blows up little details and stupid non-stories out of proportion in ways that will never happen in November because of information overload.
———————————————–
5) Finally, This is how it’s done–win or lose. In their excellent book Off-Center, authors Hacker and Pierson lay in crisp and clear detail how the GOP machine threw four, five, and sometimes six primaries, again and again, at those they wanted to remove in their party in order to achieve the ideological transformation they desired.
They didn’t give up after the first defeat. Or the second. Or the third.
If someone had come to the “New Republicans” early in their movement, and laughed at them for being 0-30 or some similar number in elections, their response would have been simple: “Wait and see.”
And that’s what I urge Progressives today, in the face of ridicule if we lose. “Wait and see.” These things often take time–but the fact that we’re even here is a miracle.
————————————-
So take heart, my fellow progressives–no matter what happens today.
Know well that Busby’s challenge has already struck terror into the hearts of the GOP and drained their coffers–and that Tester’s challenge has done the same for the DLC establishment.
Know well that actually making these half-court shots would be a miracle in and of itself–and that missing them is no indication of how we’ll fare on a more even playing field.
Know well that we are winning–and on track to victory in November–whether we win or lose today in these races.
Take heart, my friends. And stay focused.
available in orange.
It’s funny, because I haven’t thrown my weight behind Ciro Rodriguez, Jon Tester, or Francine Busby for the specific reason that I am not into losing. We need to pick our fights carefully.
I’m not immune from a protest statement, as I came out for Chuck Pennacchio against Bob Casey. But I did so in the full knowledge that it was nothing more than a protest statement.
When you come out in a race that is winnable, you better damn well win it. Or at least, you better win a decent percentage and be able to say you made the difference.
I saw Markos taking credit for Obama’s victory on Colbert’s show. I’m sorry, but Obama won 70%-29%. Markos’s endorsement was irrelevant.
When we choose whom to support, we must take responsibility for the huge movement of people that we are supposed to be representing. Making bad choices is a disservice to everyone.
Now, Busby has a real chance, and there in no question that a victory will be attributable to the help of the netroots. The same is true for Tester. In Busby’s case, it was a no-brainer…a special election. In Tester’s case, it seemed like a bad risk to me. And now I am prepared to be proven wrong. In fact, I will be slightly surprised if Tester doesn’t pull this out.
Nevertheless, we need to be effective for more than just the virtue of winning, but so that we are feared. And losing, no matter how valiantly, does not further that goal.
maybe so. But again, “winnable” is relative. When the disadvantages are institutional, as they are in Busby’s case, I don’t think it’s so black and white.
I think that, in majorly Republican areas, sometimes coming close–and making the GOP spend boatloads of cash–is a major achievement in and of itself.
And bodes well for progressives in November.
Okay. But we came out hard for Stephanie Herseth. This is a special election. We’d come out for anyone with a (D) at the end of their name, whether they stood a chance or not.
The real issue is Tester. Was it the right fight to make? I made an early decision that it was not. I think I was wrong. This could be a giant victory that I had no part in. Personally, I don’t care about me, I care about the netroots. I thought it was a reckless choice. But, since Morrison ran into unexpected problems, it seems like it might pay off in spades. And I fervently hope it does.
But, losing a battle with the DLC should be avoided at all costs. At least, we need to win more that we lose.
Lieberman is a special case. We can lose that one. We’ve already put the fear of God into the establishment in that race. But these smaller races need to be chosen with the utmost care.
Busby has scared the Republicans into spending millions defending what should be one of their safest seats. I agree with your points, but in her case I think the net support has paid off handsomely even if she falls just short.
The big prize is still Lieberman. If he goes down, that will be the storyline and the actual winning percentage won’t matter as much.
I agree. Joementum is the big fish here.
A Siegelman victory could be seriously embarrassing for the party, since he is currently on trial for corruption and stands a decent chance of being in prison in November. If they had any sense, party leaders would have asked him to step down before the primary.
As for Lucy, I have known her for decades and I wouldn’t describe her as a progressive. She is probably as close as you’re ever going to get in an Alabama elected official though, and she is one of the rare politicians who focuses on solving real problems instead of getting bogged down with pandering. She has done better than expected in every race she has ever run, I think alot of Alabamians refuse to admit to pollsters that they’re voting for a woman.
true, she’s not terribly progressive–but, as you say, she’s about as good as we’ll get in Alabama. And she’s miles better than Siegelman.
You should have seen Siegelman 25 years ago. We had a string of almost-progressive Attorney Generals in the late ’70s/early ’80s and he may have been the best of them. He has since sold his soul to the state power-brokers in his quest to become Governor, sadly, and I wouldn’t even begin to try to defend what he has become.
Win = good, keep following Kos’ advice and send money!
Lose = also good, keep following Kos’ advice and send money!
Sounds like it’s a win-win for Kos.
Just another political consultant? No…Kos is ONLINE.
Nice sales job, “thereisnospoon”…for rubes. But some of us can remember yesterday, and even the day before yesterday, and some of us have memories that go back weeks, months…even years.
Losing is losing. Losing is never winning.
I do agree with one thing: people who give bad advice, and support bad candidates, lose their credibility. Sound like anybody you work for?
what does “Kos” have to do with it, exactly, except for the fact that he–like so many others–supported these candidates? He doesn’t get a dime of money you send to these candidates.
And there are many candidates who are deserving of your money that Kos doesn’t support. Like Marcy Winograd, for instance–who is probably a little too progressive even for Markos, but who has received my support in time, money and effort.
But feel free to register your protest vote with the Green Party if it makes you feel better, or to post online about the failures of the Democratic Party without actually contributing to candidates who are trying to fix it. If you think that will help…
how much does kos pay you?
also, it sounds to me like you’ve been watching the pep talk scene from meatballs.
but you are right in one sense. we are engaging the process, and we are making those in power have to engage us. the repubbbs are spending $$$ they’d rather be investing into dominatrix sessions for bill bennett and bareback rides with jeff gannon.
the only wasted vote is the vote not cast.
that is way out of line. “How much does kos pay you?”
I’ll ignore the personal attack on me, as well as the mockery of my username–but what offends me most is what you have, exactly, against Markos?
What does Markos possibly stand to gain from this diary? Clue me in if you please. That he stood behind these candidates? We all did–and if you didn’t, I’d really like to know what your problem was. And if you have one, you can post it.
As it stands, the netroots at large–not just the Kossacks–stood behind Tester and many of the others who won tonight. The Busby race is still up for grabs and looking pretty good at this point.
The virulence against Markos here is amazing to me. He’s just another person, with whom I myself have my disagreements. What’s the big deal?
it was irony! it was a joke! you know me, i’m skippy! i know kos doesn’t pay you, i was making fun of the guy you’re responding to, the curmudgeon guy, who said “sound like anybody you work for?”
dude, you know me, i’m your bud! hey, don’t ask me why i didn’t get “thereisnospoon,” maybe i wrote this when i didn’t have my glasses on.
no offense, it was irony, which doesn’t travel well in cyberspace.
sorry, dude, but don’t ever think i’m making a personal attack on you.
Assumption #1: None of us here know that you’re a DailyKos cop whose real purpose on Booman Tribune is to spread the Kos-approved “party line”.
Wrong. Your motives and identity are well-known.
Assumption 2: If you don’t do what I say, you’re part of the problem–because I’m the only one who has a workable solution. You’re not doing anything to help.
Wrong. Your way is not the only way–and indeed, it is not even the correct way.
Let’s get this straight, Mr. Still-Wet-Behind-the-Ears pup: I was actively involved in politics before you were born. I’ve contributed money, worked as a volunteer on campaigns, and even co-managed a friend’s successful campaign for state senate.
All as a registered Democrat.
I don’t need the likes of YOU lecturing me on my responsibilities nor advising me on tactics.
Kos and his followers, like you, are FAILURES–but that’s part of the plan, isn’t it? Whether Kos succeeds or fails, keep logging on his website, keep sending money to the candidates he endorses (so that they will buy expensive ads on his site), and don’t listen to the people who say that the “Republican lite” strategies of Kos, Jerome Armstrong, and the DLC/NDN crowd are destroying the Democrats.
Did you really think that nobody noticed that Jerome Armstrong, Kos’ co-author of “Crashing the Gates”, is a highly paid consultant to Governor Mark Warner of Virginia (a dues-paying DLC member)? And that Kos all of a sudden dropped his “holy war” against the DLC? Got to keep those advertising revenues rolling in.
Assumption #3: You are at DailyKos.
Wrong. There are no enforcers here, no Armando to swoop in with curses and threats of banishment for the apostate. People at BoomanTribune are free to express their opinions without fear of repercussions.
A word of advice? Remember where you are, and remember that we know who YOU are.
This is just ridiculous.
I asked spoon to do some front-paging here because I like his work, his writing. I have no other motive. I don’t agree with every front-pager here on everything. We’re all different people. spoon has some political opinions that differ from mine, and I don’t want him to change his views to fit mine. This isn’t an exercise in orthodoxy, or enforcing orthodoxy. Saying that spoon is here to enforce the Kos party line is absurd on its face. Was I duped into asking spoon to write here? Has someone planted a device in my brain that controls my thoughts? Am I suddenly interested in enforcing the Kos party line?
For some people little connections and coincidences add up so neatly into a big conspiracy.
I criticized Warner last week. This week they bought a month long ad on my site. And I know they noticed my criticism because a staffer followed up on it and asked me to elaborate on the problem. Am I being bought off? Are they trying to win me over to their side? Who knows? But, personally, I like the fact that their campaign pays attention to what I write, that they don’t withhold advertising just because we have a disagreement, that they contact me to get feedback.
That’s the real world. Politicians can ignore the netroots, or they can engage us. At least Warner was willing to sit down for an hour and half with me and take some tough questions and engage in an actual debate, not just try to stuff some bullshit down my throat.
Jerome set up the meeting. There was no secret about that. And Markos complained about how he gets nasty emails from Jerome whenever he is critical of Warner. Again, that’s the real world. Markos doesn’t work for Warner and he has made no indication that he plans to endorse him. Here’s Kos on the DLC from today:
Oh…and then there is poor Chris Bowers, who has the great misfortune to be friends with Jerome and to write for the site Jerome founded and to have set up Advertising Liberally. Somehow this has been construed to mean that Chris is a Mark Warner supporting, DLC-loving, NDN sockpuppet, that steers advertising to centrists and away from progressives. Spend two seconds with Chris and you’ll be disabused of that fantasy.
Every one of us has their own unique political views. Very little goes on behind the scenes in the way of collusion or even coordination. We can barely put together a meet-up or a conference call.
You’re right that Booman Tribune allows and encourages a wider range of debate than Daily Kos. But we also ask for a higher level of respect for each other. You should remember that when you make mean-spirited, paranoid, and groundless accusations.
Groundless and paranoid?
Not!
I shall refer readers to a Salon article for rebuttal:
“The Blogfather”
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/05/31/armstrong/
The article is mostly about Jerome Armstrong, but for anybody to pretend that Jerome and Kos are not joined at the hip is just nonsense.
Some excerpts (don’t want to violate copyright law), with emphasis added:
I rest my case.
Rest what case?
Markos and Jerome are friends. Jerome is trying to persuade Markos and all the other bloggers with a lot of traffic to take a good look at Warner. Is that a secret?
Is Jerome an effective advocate for his man? Yes. I’d say he is very good at his job. So what?
I’d bet you that if the primary was held today that Warner would not get the support of Duncan, or Bowers, me, or Markos. Markos may have softened a little bit on the DLC (at least when it comes to Warner), but he is bashing them today, right now, on his front-page.
You presume to know a lot of things that you don’t know. Like what people believe politically. But, most importantly, this has nothing to do with spoon. And your vicious attacks on him are completely uncalled for, inaccurate, and yes…paranoid.
Michael Scherer, the author of Salon’s article, “The Blogfather”, must also be “paranoid”.
You’ve not refuted one single point in Scherer’s article because, well, it’s true.
Markos hasn’t “taken a good look at Warner”–he’s trumpeting him as the new savior of the Democratic Party.
And criticizing the DLC on the frontpage of your blog, while simultaneously endorsing a candidate who is a DLC member, is…what’s the word? Paranoid? No…hypocritical! That’s the one! Or maybe “hypocritical” is too strong a word and the correct phrase is “smokescreen”…criticize the DLC in public but support a candidate who, if elected President, will govern with a DLC agenda. During Nixon’s time, this was called “plausible deniability”.
But I should know better by now than to argue with a blog owner, so I shall bow out. Salud y respecto, sir.
Jesus. You just act stupid. I know you are not, in fact, stupid. But you act like you are.
Here’s what I’ll grant you. Because of Markos’s friendship with Jerome, and because of Jerome’s advocacy for Warner, Markos has probably helped build up Warner’s cred as a viable candidate in 2008.
There are a lot of people that are wondering whether Warner might be able to break through the red/blue deadlock, and find him to be an attractive candidate that should be taken seriously.
Markos has made comments about Warner that tend to give him more of a chance than might be warranted when we look at the stiff competition in the Democratic field. However, he might be right about Warner’s chances.
But, to leap from that to saying he is endorsing Warner is a leap not justified by your set of facts. It ignores the fact that Markos is also critical of Warner and has to put up with harrassment about it from his friend. It ignores Markos’s continued and unrelenting criticism of the DLC. It leaps from the fact Jerome and Markos share enough of a common vision to co-author a book to the conclusion that they will be endorsing and voting for the same candidate. It even ignores the differences between Warner on the one hand and, say, Bayh and Lieberman on the other. As though all those candidates are the same.
You go beyond this faulty assumptions to accuse Markos and Jerome of being all about money and also of directing money based on anti-progressive principles. And then you launch into spoon as if he is just some operative in this big fraud.
It’s beneath your intelligence to believe this bullshit and to spread it around.
It’s not true. When I see these theories bandied about I feel obliged to shoot them down. It’s b.s.
Also, what makes you think “kos” is profiting in any way from this?
And what makes you think I “work” for Markos?
And as for me, I’ll keep donating to these candidates, thank you very much. It appears to be working.
what makes you think I “work” for Markos?
I’ve not formed any conclusions about your employment but when I see your posts here (and on the FP too… so disappointing) I’ve learned to expect a couple of things: the blog equivalent of a guy wearing a sandwich board announcing that he does not have to engage in independent thought since he started reading Daily Kos and a remarkable degree of hostility towards anyone not willing to get with your particular program.
I would prefer that you not use this blog in that manner and would also prefer to not see several of the more unpleasant aspects of the DK ‘culture’ imported here as you appeared to be doing with your disrespect and straw man arguments in the reproductive rights thread from a couple of days ago. A good general rule is: do not act like DHinMI.
Indeed, Colleen.
One must adapt to one’s environment–and the spoonster apparently has not grokked that MyLeftWing and BoomanTribune are NOT DailyKos.
Nobody here is going be troll-rated out of existence, nor banished, merely for disagreeing with someone. And there’s no gang of enforcers to back up the ole spoonster.
I do get a good laugh out of thereisnospoon pretending that he doesn’t know that Kos, for example, has frontpaged hundreds of diaries about taking Randy “Duke” Cunningham’s former congressional district in a special election (which the Democrats lost, unfortunately).
I get an even bigger laugh out of thereisnospoon pretending that he doesn’t know that Kos is getting lots of advertising revenues from candidates he just “happens” to support.
And the biggest laugh of all? Thereisnospoon pretending that WE don’t know any of this, either.
my brother doesn’t “adapt to his environment.” He writes what he believes. Your vitriolic ad hominems against him–and against Kos for being some sort of profiteering DLC shill–are astonishing.
Lay off the personal attacks, and stick to logical arguments.
not having to engage in any independent thought after reading Daily Kos? That’s an interesting idea. Your view of Daily Kos is obviously something similar to your view of the right-wing noise machine–though I don’t exactly see how.
There is no such thing as a “Daily Kos” talking point, given how many voices there are in that community.
not having to engage in any independent thought after reading Daily Kos?
That certainly was not my meaning. Clearly it’s possible to read DK and maintain independence of thought, I’ve just seen no evidence that spoon has done so.
There is no such thing as a “Daily Kos” talking point, given how many voices there are in that community.
No place as prone to mass purges and which employs people like DHinMI can be said to be without spirited attempts to both silence dissent and ‘guide’ the conversation.
So let’s see- the prelims today don’t really count!? Well, even though I usually never and I mean never find myself supporting in any way the policys of this administration but I gotta tell ya folks. Does anyone else think that it stinks that nobody (Admin and Us) remember June 6- 1944!
Sure we have alot on our plates but I gotta tell everyone, if we forget our past we are doomed. I pretty much scan the networks and not a word.6:05pm before AA bothered to insert a one sentence blurb.
Iraq- 4+ years- 2700+ dead
D-Day-1 day- over 53,000 DEAD!
How about it folks- spare a moment?
billjpa
Sorry but here is one more re my earlier post- NYT,WAPO, LAT- 8:05pm est- NOT ONE WORD on openning page!
billjpa
Does this still feel like a win?
Doesn’t matter?
AP/Yahoo
MSNBC Setup
MSNBC Result
ABC News
CBS News
Fox News
So long as all we get are “moral” victories, is there any reason why women’s rights can’t come along for the ride?
Work harder. The Democrats ALMOST won. If only they’d had another five million dollars…
Move to the right. The right-wing Republican agenda WON–the Democrats would win if they’d move further to the right!
Send money.
I’ve been this movie before. I don’t need to see it again.
Completely idiotic.
Because you apparently don’t read anything other than your own echo chamber while insulting other members of the community, Kos frontpaged Matt Stoller’s analysis with wholehearted agreeement:
Move to the right? HARDLY. Whatever your hatred of Kos and my brother is, I don’t know–but the least you could do is keep your facts straight when you’re making your ad-hominem attacks. You can’t even do that.