What is ethnic cleansing?
[E]thnic cleansing is a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory on the basis of religious, ethnic or national origin. Such a policy involves violence and is very often connected with military operations. It is to be achieved by all possible means, from discrimination to extermination, and entails violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.”
What is this?
The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit. Some — those who cannot leave on their own — should be counted among the innocent victims.- Alan Dershowitz
Now let’s look at these two comments.
Hezbollah and Hamas militants, on the other hand, are difficult to distinguish from those “civilians” who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks.- Alan Dershowitz
“It seems like we will go to the end now. We will not go part way and be held hostage again. We’ll have to go for the kill — Hezbollah neutralization.” -Israeli Ambassador Daniel Ayalon.
Now consider this:
Along with the Amal movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon’s largest religious bloc.
Israel’s job, then, is to ‘neutralize’ Hezbollah. But they presumably do not mean that they intend to ‘go for the kill(ing)’ of the main political party of Lebanon’s largest religious bloc. They need to distinguish between Hezbollah’s civilian and military branches. They also need to distinguish between civilians that merely support the political party and civilians that are actively aiding the militants. And they need to do this from an airplane thousands of feet in the air, or a missile launcher hundreds of miles away.
Since this is impossible, they are taking a different approach (now). They are dropping leaflets telling people to flee. If they fail to flee they are presumed to be guilty and deserving of death. Israel will claim this is not ethnic cleansing because they will eventually allow these civilians to return to their homes. That may be true, but ‘eventually’ can be a long time. And it is not clear what they will have accomplished if they just allow the population to come back home and resume their activities.
Israel’s policy makes no sense. What they are doing is not going to work. On the one hand, this is a bit like the United States reinvading Vietnam. On the other hand, there is no endgame for this. They are just going to turn themselves into even worse pariahs of the international community. They have now accepted in principle the need for an international peacekeeping force but that would require peace. There can be no peace unless Hezbollah agrees to it and Israel allows people to return to their homes.
Israel has started something they cannot finish and that they cannot fix. This is what happens when you listen to neo-conservatives. Just look at Iraq.
It is tragic that Israel’s leaders learned so perfectly from their Nazi oppressors. Their strategy now is a mirror image of the Nazi occupation’s policy of killing 10 civilians in a town for every German killed by the resistance. I guess “Never Again” only applies to them other folks, not the Zionist neocons with God on their side.
Of course as a citizen of a nation that killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in revenge for doing absolutely nothing to us, I’m in no position to lecture the Israelis. The ideology of might makes right has run through the world virtually unchallenged for at least half a century now. The time is long past to get over the Holocaust sentimentality that gives Israel’s most brutish elements a free pass to escalate every tension in its region. It seems obvious to me that the resources spent on Israel and the rest of the ME, including Iraq, could have bought the kind of self-interest that in turn buys peace. Israel’s fear and desperation are understandable given its circumstances. That does not make its actions acceptable.
Israel has effectively lost the West Bank by this misguided intervention. The United States needs the support of ‘moderate’ Arab states to get anything accomplished, and with the US army obviously bogged down and unable to bail any of them out in the event their own citizens rise up against them, the obvious play for them is to do give Israel nothing unless it commits to a swift dismantling of ALL West Bank settlements. This will go down very hard in Israel and the United States, as ‘giving in to terrorists’. But when you’re beat, you’re beat. Best to make whatever you can of it. The West Bank no longer defends Israel from outside attack. A peace settlement will.
They said land for peace, but they gave no land, and got no peace.
I honestly can’t figure out what they think they are going to accomplish. The only way this works is if we keep going into Syria and destroy it too. And then there will still be Iran to contend with. No wonder Newt is going around calling this World War Three.
What does Hezbollah gain by continuing their attacks even though the Israelis are reacting with overwhelming force? The only explanation I can think of is a macho ego thing, neither side wants to be the one to show “weakness” (i.e. common sense) first.
There is nothing Israel can do in Lebanon, Hezbollah is indistinguishable from the local population and there is no way to neutralize them without committing mass genocide. I don’t get the impression that Israel is ready to go that far so they aren’t accomplishing anything by bluffing. And Hezbollah isn’t accomplishing anything in continuing their attacks either except getting more of their countrymen killed in retaliation. The whole thing is pointless.
Hezbollah is proving that Israel cannot protect themselves short of a full invasion. The answer when you are screwed is to negotiate, not blow up innocent civilians. The Palestinians should have learned that a long time ago. Now it’s Israel’s turn not to learn.
BooMan:
It does all make sense . . . if you accept the underling notion of a “Jewish” state (and a Jewish-governed United States), and the underlying justifications of a “chosen people”. This is the inevitable result of the “exceptionalism” and accompanying sense of entitlement that many of us have been commenting about here.
Every time you hear an IDF “spokesman” express faux “regret” at the loss of “innocent life” (why is that never followed by offers of “compensation” or change in tactics?) but fail to understand the implied-but-never-stated “but it’s really OK, because they weren’t “chosen”, and anyway, they gave us no choice” . . . well . . . you’ve missed what’s really being said. It’s peculiar that it all goes practically unquestioned in the US . . . you can be sure that everyone in Palestine and Lebanon, and pretty much the whole “rest of the world” understands . . .
And of course it does not end with Palestine and Lebanon. It is not just a “bad tactic” in pursuit of a good cause . . .
That didn’t even require a scratch.
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Not all terrorists are … immoral!
In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.
"Warning phone calls had been made" does not meet facts in British report of a second diversionary explosion in the road, within minutes followed by the King David Hotel explosion.… The controversy over the plaque and the two-day celebration of the bombing, sponsored by Irgun veterans and the right-wing Menachem Begin Heritage Centre, goes to the heart of the debate over the use of political violence in the Middle East.
With the arguments put forth by Dershowitz on morality of killing innocent civilians, not much has changed in sixty years, or perhaps 2,000 years in the Promised Land.
≈ Cross-posted from my diary —
Israelis Celebrating on Graves of 92 Victims of Terror ≈
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I’ve done a Eurotrib story on that, with some added info on the Irgun gang and Begin: Israel: a walk on the dark side. There is a vigorous debate there at the moment.
My landlady’s husband was killed by the Irgun while serving in Palestine after the war. It always stuck in my mind.
The only real promise in the so-called “promised land” is the promise of the spilling of more blood of innocents in the name of one god or another.
Calling this the “Holy Land” is the ultimate hypocrisy, the most egregious sacriledge.
The United States is actively and openly rearming the Israelis in the midst of the conflict and actively and openly encouraging the Israelis to continue.
Therefore, we can add “ethnic cleansing” to the list of Bush accomplishments.
I keep thinking my outrage can’t go deeper, and I keep being proved wrong.
Why exactly is it that it’s wrong for Iran to arm Hezbollah but okay for the United States to arm Israel?
My local newspaper has been publishing nothing but simpleminded propaganda about how all of this is the fault of Iran and Syria. I’m really depressed that so few Americans seem to have even a shred of critical thinking abilities, even a shred of skepticism about the official line, even a shred of decency. Many new lines have been crossed here, because Lebanon is a traditionally Christian nation, still about one-third Christian, and we’ve always been friendly with Lebanon, and here American bombs are falling on fellow U.S. citizens, on Christians, on allies–and nobody gives a shit. I gotta get out of this damned country.
No one gives a shit is a little bit of an overstatement:
It’s not the people, it’s our representatives:
Just for the record, I looked up who voted “Nay”:
Fortney Stark (D-CA)
Neil Ambercombie (D-HI)
John Conyers (D-MI)
John Dingall (D-MI)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI)
Ron Paul (R-TX)
Jim McDermott (D-WA)
Nick Rahall (D-WV)
These 4 abstained:
Barbara Lee (D-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Marcy Kaptur (D-OH)
Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
There were only 10 not present. So, if you don’t see your reps name above, they voted to kill more children. You might consider sending them a note to that effect.
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Nick Rahall (D-WV) said he has been thinking a lot about the homeland of his paternal and maternal grandfathers, having been there in 1982 when Israel was “bombing the smithereens out of Beirut to get the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization).”
Rahall said Israeli destruction of roads, bridges, government buildings and some military is undermining a fragile pro-United States government and could become a rallying cry for insurgents in U.S.-occupied Iraq.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I think we need to wake up to the fact that we are a people without a party on this. We have almost zero hope of effecting political change in the current environemnt.
My worst fears about the Democratic party are being fully realized today. When it comes to military empire, there is no opposition. America is an imperial power, through and through, and the Democratic party as constituted is part of the problem.
I think we need to wake up to the fact that we are a people without a party on this. We have almost zero hope of effecting political change in the current environemnt.
My worst fears about the Democratic party are being fully realized today. When it comes to military empire, there is no opposition. America is an imperial power, through and through, and the Democratic party as constituted is part of the problem.
The pollsters and the media should be asking the question; Do you think this Israeli invasion and occupation has the ability to destroy Hizbollah?
But of course they won’t pose that question publicly, prefering to ask poll questions that are irrelevant.
I appreciate the response. That poll shows 31 percent think Israel has gone “too far.” I need to force myself to keep realizing that a third of the American population, or more, basically agrees with me.
“The secret of happiness is to face the fact that the world is horrible, horrible, horrible.”–Bertrand Russell (1957)
Booman with all due respect you are full of it trying to act like this is ethnic cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing was the holocaust. Jews lost their lives and property during the holocaust. Do you see Jews going into Europe and suicide bombing demanding their land back?
Jews were thrown out of every country in the middle east. I don’t see them suicide bombing Iran, Iraq etc to reclaim their lost land.
When I see the civilian casualties in Lebannon it makes me sick too.
I have a novel idea. Why don’t other countries just leave Israel the f*k alone? They have 99.9% of the middle east–why don’t they just let Israel have their .1%? No because having any Jews in the ME is a total thorn in their side and they don’t give a shit how many of their own they lose to destroy Israel.
Don’t you dare call me a neocon. I’m a lifelong democrat and total free thinker. Buschco attack Iraq a country that never did and probably never ever would be any kind of a threat to us–that is imperialism. Israel is repeatedly attack by its neighbors and that is a HUGE difference. Israel does not want to occupy Lebannon they just really want to be left the H
*L alone.
Before anyone in this country goes too far down the path of criticising Israel for trying to just exist, they should be ready to give up their homes back to the native AMERICANS WHO WERE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED BY THE US FROM MILLIONS OF MILLIONS OF ACRES! Where should we then go, BTW?? Are we ready to do this?
I know two wrongs don’t make a right, but in the case of America versus the Indians, we were looking to expand on lands we already really stole from the natives. Israel is just looking to survive against and enemy with sworn statements to destroy them. Most post here on this subject are over the top on the unrealistic side, IMO!
Before anyone in this country goes too far down the path of criticising Israel for trying to just exist …
No comment or diary here at BooMan doubts the right for the statehood of Israel. Personally, thoughout my lifetime I have evolved from a staunch supporter and admirer of Israel’s courage to battle Arab states for its existence. The breaking point, or a new expression I learned yesterday Israel ‘jumped the shark’, in a period after the peace settlement with Egypt brokered by Jimmy Carter in the Camp David accords.
I began to doubt the honesty of Israel to complete the peace deal for a settlement with the Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank. The best illustration is Ariel Sharon’s tactics of building new settlements deep into Palestinian land and the harassment of the Palestinian people by IDF forces stationed on occupied land to provide ‘security’ for the Israeli settlers.
The Iranian Islamic Revolution in 1979, with its leader Khomeiny, added a dangerous element in the region of world’s greatest oil reserves.
The invasion and occupation of Sourthern Lebanon in 1982 was a grave error of Ariel Sharon and the Israeli government. Into existence came Hezbollah in the Palestinian camps of Lebanon and in 1987 Hamas was created by Israel to counteract the PLO ‘terror’ organization of Yasser Arafat. The Likud under Benjamin Netanyahu had a policy to wreck the Oslo peace accords. The enlargement of settlements into the West Bank territory got priority under every coalition government in Israel. The final solution of East Jerusalem has become a mandated fact under the ‘leadership’ op Likud mayor Ehud Olmert during his tenure as mayor of the holy city. The next step was to contain the small enclaves of Palestinians by building the illegal ‘security’ wall or fence throughout the occupied territories. The assurance of the Israelis is to increase illegal Jewish settlements throughout the Jordan Valley, thereby cutting the Palestinian people off from the Jordanian border.
The only single-minded policy of the Israeli government is to totally wreck the Palestinian infrastructure in the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank and now also in Southern Lebanon. The killing of innocent civilians under the Palestinians is of no concern – see the eloquent criminal lawyer Dershowitz. During the reign of George Bush, there has been no serious effort to continue the peace process that ended so dramatically in January of 2001.
The only aspect in the War on Lebanon that goes over the top, is the unwarrented killing of hundreds of innocent Lebanese citizens by the IDF, on orders from the Olmert/Peretz government.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
We all suffer from the Bin Ladin effect. When Bin Ladin releases a message, Bush gains in popularity even though Bush has done more to help Bin Ladin than anyone in the history of the world. When the “friends of the Palestinians” produce their thinly veiled jew-hatred (a few scratches is all it takes to release bizzare theories about Mossad conspiracies, the control of the US by Doug Feith (who seems to me to be not smart enough to control his shoelaces without some help) and etc.) or the suicide bombers act, the right wing clowns who control Israel gain popularity. It’s no coincidence that every movement towards peace somehow runs into “unauthorized” acts from the IDF, from settlers, or from their counterparts on the other side. Criminals hate peace and live on fear and anger.
Israel’s right to exist is not at issue here. Israel is not likely to exist as a Jewish state for many more decades unless Israel evacuates the West Bank. Until that happens, the range of the missiles dropping on her cities will simply grow. It’s tough, but we are a reality-based community, and the reality is that the strategic position of Israel has changed for the worse. Some will mourn, others will jump for joy. The rest of us will simply say to ourselves, ‘if they had only negotiated while there was still time’.
Supporters of Israel must sooner or later come to terms with the fact that eventually the American people will wake up to the fact that Israel is not their friend, and that the primary supporters of Israel in the United States are a very tiny minority of the whole population. As a rule, tails don’t wag dogs. At some point, the dog will start wagging the tail.
It’s tough, but we are a reality-based community, and the reality is that the strategic position of Israel has changed for the worse.
Reality based community hah? Psst, I have a little secret for you. ISRAEL IS A NUCLEAR POWER! Don’t tell anyone.
Just how do you think the demise of Israel will occur with Israel in possession of significant nuclear options. Do you really friggin believe the Jewish people will let another holocaust happen to them without taking their enemies with them!!! Never again has some real meaning when dealing with this subject that most of you are totally forgetting, I guess. This is serious stuff to Israel, and they are not playing liberal mind games here.
I truly hope Israel does not choose to use these weapons.
It won’t do them any good.
It won’t do you any good either.
If you want a message of hope, look to South Africa. The Afrikaaners gave up their Master Race status and cut a deal. Nobody had to die.
That was smart. What Israel is doing is stupid.
You cannot cut a deal with people whose STATED INTENT is your destruction! Will you people wake up and cut the BS!
You forget: Jews were living in peace in the Middle East for centuries before the creation of Israel.
It was the creation of Israel that changed that.
When Jews came from Europe they acted as thought they were the wronged party. But it was not Arabs, not Palestinians, who had wronged them. So why did they act, why do they act, as though it were?
You say you cannot cut a deal, but you do not try. The people of Israel came as invaders, so it is all very embarrassing. Yet so did the Afrikaaners, when they came to Africa. They changed. Why can’t you?
As you say, the STATED INTENT of Israel’s opponents is to destroy the invaders. Well, what else would it be?
But what they will do is another matter.
Perhaps I should just cut to the point:
Israel is now in its end game.
At this point, all you can do is buy time. But the method of buying time . . . what it requires of you is the willingness to commit open genocide. Is that what you want to become? Do you understand how very temporary it makes all your victories?
Where was the turning point? I am sure I don’t know. But when Rabin was assassinated and peace initiatives were repudiated by his assassins’ new government, I knew that Israel hasd chosen its course and sealed its fate.
Do you conflate the fortune of Israel with the fate of Jews? This is a mistake: Israel–through its own choice–is doomed.
I’ll wager you on that one. Israel is no more doomed than the US is doomed because of the genocide and land stealing that it did on the native Americans! Israel as a Jewish state and the Jews have learned much from their past 70 years of history. They have learned that might and a big stick will prevent another holocaust. They may not really have to use that big stick, but they sure as hell are going to display it periodically so their enemies know they have it!!
More obviously because of current policies than the genocides of the 19th century, but perhaps a line really can be drawn connecting past stupid brutality and present brutal stupidity.
Israel depends heavily on the US and will not outlast the US. Both have oil dependent civilizations that will not survive the pending oil crises. Both have chosen to fight conventional wars of domination against guerrillas, without learning the requirements of guerrilla war. This is a formula for failure.
Comparisons of US and Israeli genocides does not favor Israel: Their opponents have better communication and a broader base of support than the natives of North America did. Also, in the ensuing century and a half, colonial peoples have learned much about fighting their invaders, and since the mid 20th century have shown a tendency to win.
the Jews have learned much from their past 70 years of history. They have learned that might and a big stick will prevent another holocaust.
This is a disturbing note in your post–an implication that force by itself can win. When force is divorced from human qualities–a morale or an idea of the human–it always descends into pointless brutality and then loses. Sometimes it takes a while, but never as long as the “realists” think. It is the brutality itself that results in the destruction, as it generates opposition within and without.
The lesson you take from the holocaust is a strange one. Might makes right was the foremost Nazi dictum.
On the contrary, Israel was created and gained its acceptance as a refuge from the genocides of the mid 20th century. By engaging in genocide it negates its own moral basis. Its internal meaning has already evaporated. Now there is just violence and clinging. This is futile.
You should consider that Jews are inevitably tied to Israel, to some degree, and Israel’s behavior has impacts on the well-being of Jews world wide. Frankly, at this point Israel is a real liability, and if you are thinking about Jewish well-being, you should be concerned about this.
The lesson you take from the holocaust is a strange one. Might makes right was the foremost Nazi dictum.
The Jews sat idly by just hoping the Nazis would be humane. 6 million died like sheep to slaughter. Fighting and inflicting casualties on your enemy at least makes your enemy feel pain for his plans, and if you are good and strong enough, he may leave you alone. He sure as hell will not by turning the other cheek.
I can see you are one of those living in feel-good land where talk is cheap and consequences are non-existent. Maybe if your family was wiped out or threatened to be by a brutal enemy set on destroying you, then you might feel or see things a little more realistically in the real world of mankind!
Israel does not want to occupy Lebannon they just really want to be left the H*L alone
Most people want to be just left alone. Those poor people getting machine gunned or bombed by Israel, most of them want to be left alone too.
Hizbolla is an evil organization. But Hizbolla is in South Lebanon because Begin invaded Lebanon to get rid of PLO. Obviously that was a horrible mistake as even Begin admitted. The people who run Israel now are far stupider than Begin (they are Bush compared to Johnson) and may even be carrying out this invasion at the behest of their partners in corruption in the US government.
I don’t have any faith in the good will of the IDF or the Israeli government this
or this
To me the most difficult thing about this discussion is that many of the “oh its horrible” critics of Israel are operating in bad faith – their hostility to Israel has nothing to do with any humanitarian principles. But having ill-intentioned critics is not absolution.
At least some of us object to Zionist racism and the expulsion of 3/4 million Palestinians to create a “Jewish” state. At least some of us regard the “Middle East problem” as beginning with that.
Do you include that as “ill-intentioned criticism”?
I do. The implications are that millions of Israelis, most of them born in Israel, a near majoriy of them born of parents who were refugees from the Arab nations should die. No?
Israel is far from the only nation living on land stolen from others, but it seems to attract a lot of attention from people living on other piles of bones.
The death of Israel as a state is not the same as the death of its people. No one on the arab side, to my knowledge, has advocated exterminating the Jews; at most, they advocate exterminating their state. The two are not synonymous. As I noted above, the state of Israel is no longer capable of protecting its people against ballistic missiles. This will be true from now til kingdom come. Negotiated withdrawal from the West Bank and reparations to the expropriated Arabs is the only solution now, whatever might have been the case a few years ago.
So I’m confused. If you advocate the end of Israel as a state, what is this bit about withdrawal from the West Bank? One of the most powerful arguments of the Israeli-hard liners is that negotiation is prelude to extinction – that the intention is the extinction of the state anyways so giving up land is just naive. I happen to find that argument to have a false conclusion, but are you not confirming its premise? In any case, in practice, the end of the state of Israel would only happen after the death of millions, so isn’t that what you, in practice, are advocating?
Do you also support Yemenite reparations for the destruction of the Himyarite Jewish Kingdom? I suggest a quick look at the history of Lebanon for some perspective on what that unravelling of historical injustices, bloodshed, massacres, and sheer vileness might uncover.
Past injustices seem not interesting. The lives of living people and their children to come is the important issue – otherwise we follow a chain of horror and brutality back to monkeys without gaining much. I’m sure that most living humans descend from mass murderers – that’s our forte as a species.
In a previous post you refer to “Jewish refugees” from Arab countries (neglecting to mention that many left voluntarily to take up the offer of free land in Palestine, and such expulsions as occurred happened only after the expulsion of the Palestinians and the creation of the State of Israel on Palestinian land). And you refer frequently to other historic colonizations and/or expulsions, including displacement of Native Americans. Now, when the question is the deliberate (and continued) expulsion of the Palestinians the line is “Past injustices seem not interesting”.
You’re position seems clear . . . “past injustices”, if done to Jews, can be referenced repeatedly and excuse anything Israel might want to do . . . while injustices done by Jews are above reproach (they’re not really even injustices, just the “unfortunate” price of achieving Jewish destiny) and anyone who even mentions them is an anti-semite.
Exceptionalism, and entitlement. Fooled a lot of people for a long time. Fooling fewer now . . .
I rather like the “Golden Rule” as a guiding concept . . . Israel has shown us for 60 years (in its treatment of the Palestinians) how it wants to be treated . . . I think it’s time. A little landlocked State of Israel in Northern Judea, with food, water and “amenities” provided at a level comparable to “refugee” camps in Lebanon and the West Bank, that should be good enough . . . there’s ample recent history should there be any need for guidance. No need to kill anyone . . . (unless, of course, they are so foolish as to resist the “Golden Reward”, and then only the “terrorists”, their families, and anyone standing nearby).
Those are some unpleasant fantasies. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting. The fact that people with disabilities were among those “cleansed” during Nazi Germany is rarely, if ever mentioned. Wonder why? Is it possible that I could actually be right (gasp) and people with disabilities HAVE been discriminated against throughout history? I know, wait until 2008! Winning elections is more important!
what has now been exposed as a campaign of punishing civilians? As the pictures beam around the world the Europeans have changed to calling for a ceasefire. Sunni Arab leaderships are hardening their stances. The UN has described what Israel has done as a crime against humanity.
Israel has gotten itself into a position where virtually the whole world is disgusted at what it is doing, and the news reports (well at least those outside the US and Israel) are exposing more and more pictures of dead, injured, maimed, and grieving displaced children. This leaves the US saying no ceasefire is needed and publically giving cover to a murderous assault on civilians that is being seen worldwide.
The implications of all this for the US image and credibilty abroad are plain for all to see. As for Israel, well initially they had a good reason to strike Hezbollah, but they have manged to turn it into a total disaster for their own interests as they are exposed as a genocidal regime.
All this over a minor border incident that was probably due to soldierly sloppiness. Everything I see about Israel’s reaction is consistent with its characterization, as an immature, adolescent nation.