On August 17, U.S. Army First Lieutenant Ehren Watada will face a pre-trial hearing for refusing to deploy to Iraq. “It is my conclusion as an officer of the armed forces that the war in Iraq is not only morally wrong but a horrible breach of American law. The war and what we’re doing over there is illegal,” explained the first military officer to publicly take such a stand.
As supporters internationally gear up for the “National Day of Education” on Aug 16 to ask the question “Is the Iraq War Illegal?,” support from Iraq combat veterans continues to mount for Lt. Ehren Watada
Below are just a few statements of support from the many that the “Friends and Family of Lt. Watada” have received.
Take from the Action Alert at Thank you Lt dot org
Snippets from Action Alert Email on how to support the men and women in uniform from having to engage in an illegal occupation via… Courage to Resist
Below are just a few statements of support from the many that the “Friends and Family of Lt. Watada” have received.
Cloy Richards, US Marine Iraq War infantry/artillery
“Lt. Watada, along with every other service member who has the courage to stand up and say no to this illegal war are MY WAR HEROES. Thank you Lt. Watada for standing up for me and every veteran. I admire your courage and patriotism. I wish I was brave enough to stand up and say no when it really counted. Instead I said OK and went along with the lies I was told.”
Clifton Hicks, US Army Iraq War tanker
“You’ve done something to be proud of man, you’re setting an excellent example for every soldier in the armed forces. History will prove that you were right.”
Chad Hetman, Captain, US Army infantry
“Hopefully this officer will set an example for other officers to follow…This is what courage and ethics looks like.”
Garett Reppenhagen, US Army Iraq War sniper
“Thank you Lt. Watada. I was a sniper in the 1st Infantry Division and spent one year at FOB Scunion in Baquaba Iraq. I went to war believing that I had an obligation to my country because I signed a contract and gave an oath that I would be the weapon of my democracy. After my experience in combat I firmly believe that, that social contract has been broken.”
Howard Zinn
Lt. Watada and anyone else who refuses to fight in this immoral and illegal war in Iraq deserves the support of all who believe in peace, justice, democracy. As a former officer in the military I know how difficult it is to break away from the mindset of viiolence, war, and obedience, so I applaud his courage.
Veterans For Peace
Veterans For Peace applauds First Lieutenant Watada’s courage to follow his convictions and refuse deployment to Iraq.
Veterans For Peace Executive Director Michael McPhearson states, “The Bush administration continues to put our nation’s service members in harms way for no good reason. Today our troops face the long shadows of Abu Ghraib and now Haditha…
“I understand that many of our troops believe the U.S. occupation to be just and must follow their conscience. Other soldiers, while they do not believe in the war, feel obligated to follow the orders of their leaders or fear the consequences of resisting. However, more and more men and women are coming to the realization that they have the right to follow their conscience to resist this immoral war and are willing to face whatever consequences lay ahead. As a leader and officer, 1LT Watada has an obligation to steward the physical, mental and moral health of his troops. I imagine it has become clear to the LT that his duty to them can not be served by leading them in an endeavor based on deceit and half truths. Veterans For Peace supports the courage of this young man and other service members like him.”
For more information about 1LT Watada, please visit www.thankyoult.org . For more information about VFP, please visit www.veteransforpeace.org .
Veterans For Peace is a national organization founded in 1985. It is structured around a national office in Saint Louis, MO and comprised of members across the country organized in chapters or as at-large members. The organization includes men and women veterans from World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, other conflicts and peacetime veterans. Our collective experience tells us wars are easy to start and hard to stop and that those hurt are often the innocent. Thus, other means of problem solving are necessary.
Read more statements of support here
Five years in prison for speech?
The Army has formally charged Lt. Watada two counts of making “contemptuous words” towards President Bush. In short, Lt. Watada has expressed his opinion that “our government led us into war based on misrepresentations and lies.” This is the first known prosecution of this “criminal violation” (Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice) since 1965. Could it be that because this opinion is so widely shared, that it is so threatening?
The Army charges that these same words also constitute “conduct unbecoming and officer and a gentleman.” As such, Lt. Watada now faces over five years in military prison for his opinions alone.
It is Lt. Watada’s outspoken stand for truth that has most angered Army brass. Even before he refused to board an Iraq-bound aircraft on June 22 with the 3rd Stryker Brigade, he was already under investigation for expressing his opinions about the war.
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Of course not everyone supports Lt. Watada…
Free Speech Threatned in New Haven, CT by Marine with a Bat
“Activists in New Haven, CT were confronted with a bat-wielding Marine as they expressed their support for war resisters in conjunction with nationwide actions in support of Lt. Ehren Watada in late June.’ AP
I’ve seen this hatred myself. They call Watada horrible names while they spit on the people trying to stop this needless killing, death and violence.
Snippet from Watada, the War and the Law
“Under military law, soldiers have the right to refuse to carry out illegal orders; in fact, they have a duty not to commit war crimes. According to Article 32 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Watada retains the right to a preliminary hearing to “present anything he may desire in his own behalf, either in defense or mitigation.” Under Article 46 defendants are allowed at trial to “compel witnesses to appear and testify and to compel the production of other evidence.”
I realize and understand that he will be going to jail. Indeed, he broke a law. However I find it important to show support to the men and women in uniform who are standing up and resisting this “war”.
In hopes that others will find the ability to do so as well.
It has always been my hope that this “war” be stopped. I feel that this is one way, one part of the solution that this can happen… if the warriors stop fighting the war. And wanting to resist an illegal war… it’s darm good start.
I will post a photo journal of what transpires. There are fliers, and support gear at the thankyoult.org as well as tons of info on the other resisters who are not officers, who need support and encouragement at couragetoresist.com
Photo of Lt. Ehren Watada taken by my daughter when we met him just prior to him being detained and charged.
Looks like I’m the only one to recommend your diary here Janet. Too bad. The other one was trashed from one end to the other. For what it’s worth, I support you and what you’re doing all the way. We need more like you, not less. I also support free thinkers and risk takers, like you.
Another officer refuses to take part in another war.
Officer refuses to take part in war
“Reservist officer Captain Amir Paster was sentenced on Sunday night to 28 days in a military prison for refusing to take part in the fighting in Lebanon. It was the first case of refusal to serve in the army since hostilities in Lebanon erupted.
Paster, 28, arrived at his base after being drafted and told his soldiers that he refused to take part in operations that harm innocent civilians.”
His conscience and his bravery outweighed his fear.
Bravo to that man.
Not any more you aren’t.
I also recommended this diary because I believe that these issues deserve to be debated (or not) on their own merits.
Here’s where I think Tracy is right. Those of us who are calling for soldiers to disobey orders should be willing, at the least, to stop paying our taxes. The taxes that fund the slaughter of innocents. And I told her that I will now make a pledge to stop paying mine. That’s shared risk and that’s a real way of saying to any soldier willing to risk his freedom that I’m willing too. But do you suppose that anyone refusing to pay their taxes will now be accused of not supporting the troops by not giving their own money to pay for their needs in the field? I say damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.
I wonder if it would be possible to only allot some of our taxes to only go for certain things.
Education, Healthcare, Environment, roads… etc etc
and then a check if you want your taxes to be spent on bombing other countries cities in a pre-emptive, unthought out occupation.
I’ve occasionally thought that I could endorse my tax check with a disclaimer something like “In endorsing this check the United States Government certifies that 100% of the taxes paid by this individual will be spent to fund alternative energy research” or some such disclaimer. My guess is that if I did it would just go through, and even if such an endorsement rider were legally binding the US Government collects so much in taxes that it really wouldn’t make much difference (except to make me feel better about how my money is being spent).
Now if everybody did it . . . well if everybody did it everybody would behind the effort to stop the war and we wouldn’t need to worry.
I love that ideam, OMIR!!! 🙂 It beats putting what we put on our tax form… I wrote Peace Activist as my “occupation” and on the envelope we but a PINK PEACE sign. The flag stamp was upside-down, too.
Heh . . . and you wonder whether they have a file on you in DC. I figure I’ve had one since I was ten, and screw ’em. If they want to take time out to analyze my utterly boring life, maybe it’ll be time they can’t spend causing trouble for you and people who are actually doing something.
I know I’ve got a file… my husband assures me I do. He’s had to have security clearance… issues with that. Anyways… I definitely have one now since I replied to a refugee friend in Iraq. Now that’s a scary thought for me actually… that my replying to Eman may have upped the ante for my family.
Because I want to contribute taxes to worthy things that affect/impact people. We have no problem paying taxes…
But it might be a way to send a message to War Presidents and Educators too.
Schools could rebuild themselves… while War Presidents had to go and have bake sales to support their wars. Because the taxpayers wouldn’t pony up.
There was a movement for tax refusal during Vietnam. Joan Baez was part of it, as I recall. People refused to pay 50% of their taxes, which correlated with the proportion that went to the “Defense” budget. They wrote letters explaining what they were doing. (And years after the Cold War and the “peace dividend,” I believe the proportion is roughly the same now as then.
The IRS took this pretty seriously. People wound up paying or facing jail, and I believe most decided that their point was made by gumming up the system for awhile, and getting publicity for their action. But this form of protest was only for people who could afford to pay lawyers, court costs and penalties.
I started writing a response on the other thread but stopped when it was getting too long. I’ll probably post it as a diary soon.
Cindy Sheehan and I believe Baez again are not paying taxes.
I’m looking forward to your diary, Captain Future.
IIRC Joan Baez, or her attorney, put the 50% that she withheld from the government into a separate bank account so that when the IRS came to seize the monies due, it was available and less problems for her financially.
The IRS is going to get the government’s share, no matter what – unless you are destitute.
For those who itemize, we can always donate to peace-promoting charities so we at least reduce some of the taxes we are paying. Unfortunately, it also reduces the taxes we pay for social services.
It still exists but it’s very hard to war tax resist in this day and age. I do it in a very roundabout way, I claim as many exemptions as I can and don’t pay what I owe each year. But it’s really just symbolic since it’s not a lot of money. You can get information here:
http://www.nwtrcc.org/
I should add, that it is time to really take all of these ideas to the next level. We HAVE to DO something. I don’t know what, but we must…
at a peace rally. People put in a penny into each tax category… guess which one received NONE… “War Budget”
Education got the most.
I’d support a defense budget, but not a war budget. To update a slogan from the early days of the Republic: “Millions for defense, not a penny for tribute. Or empire building.”
Did they have a category for ‘standing military, not THIS war’? I would be interested to know if such a category would get a penny at a peace rally. Some people will support a standing military of some sort, but not support ‘pre-emptive’ wars of agression.
I can’t remember… this was back in April. Sorry.
I believe it was labled Defense Budget though and not War budget. My mistake.
That’s OK. Just thought I’d ask. It would be interesting to me to know what the results might be. As for myself, I would put the penny in the education category, too.
I applaud your decision to support what you believe in by whatever non-violent means that are available. It seems to me that you are aware of the magnitude of the problem and the possible consequences of your response to it. Civil disobedience is not about flaunting the law, but accepting it and operating within it to make your statement.
I have officially been taking a ‘sabbatical’ from the paid workforce for two years and have paid no income taxes, so not paying income taxes is not something that I can decide to do at this time. I am fortunate to be able to take this ‘sabbatical’ time. I am trying to change careers – you know, midlife and all that. I am working hard every day to accomplish the transition, but I’m generating no income at present and probably won’t for another little while here. I am running away from the high-tech industry as fast as possible in search of something less profitable but more fulfilling. I have always paid my legally due income taxes, but I intend to drag this sabbatical out as long as possible in order to avoid incurring the legal obligation to pay any in the near future.
In your opinion, if I were to call for soldiers to disobey, would I be ‘qualified’? Do I have enough ‘skin in the game’ to be allowed an opinion?
we all have a stake in this… our planet, our children’s future…. endind this callous disregard for life.
I hope you find something fulfilling. Let me know what you find… my husband may run in the same direction 🙂
Oh yes, I am finding my attempt to change careers very fulfilling. However, it remains to be seen whether I will be monetarily rewarded for my pursuits. I am staying on top of developments in the high-tech industry and developing some new skills that could apply to further employment in that industry, just in case. 🙂
I empathize strongly with anyone who wants to get out of high-tech, it’s the quintessential rat-race. Always running to stay in the same place, skills-wise, as the technology rapidly changes underneath your feet.
He had to run back so as we could have health coverage. ACK. Already they’re laying people off and the “assurances” … etc etc
So please keep me updated on how your journey goes. 🙂
Will do, Janet.
I can understand this idea to not pay income taxes, but I actually believe in taxes. I would pay more if it meant more services for the poor and disabled, education, and insurance for all. I have a hard time with not paying taxes as a civil disobedience because I believe in taxes. It’s not like signing up for an illegal war, or facing jail time for opposing our war. Not paying taxes hurts our poor and disenfranchised. I know most money goes to the military and I would give anything for a tax system where I could chose where to spend my money. But, lets be real, if we all decided to not pay taxes, guess which funding would be cut first? The military….hehehehe, I think not.
Thank you Kamakhya… I think I’m married to you because that is almost verbatim what my husband said in the car outta here 🙂
the nonworking rich folks the tax breaks they have, including the inheritance tax crap then what do they need my little contribution to the IRS for? I want to find a way to do this. Help?
that’s the heart of it super. Before you call someone a coward for not be willing to go to jail (setting aside providing for their family) you better make the same sacrifice. When you go to jail for what you believe then you have the right to tell someone else to. Until that time, you are just employing a standard to someone else that you are not willing to live up to yourself.
And to get sanctimonius about it can be very offensive.
That’s where I am sympathetic to Tracy’s argument. Also, she is right that soldiers are not free to be critical in the same way we are. And any fair assessment will take that into account.
They are free to lay their weapons down instead of killing an innocent child, Booman. Military people DO HAVE A CHOICE! NO it’s not an easy one to make… you’ll be threatened by your own “comrades”, each day you’ll be walked through the barracks so your “own” can spit on you… that’s what they did to Watada and Patterson… and others,… and you then get to be tried and put in jail.
The alternative is to go to Iraq and hope you don’t get killed.
No one called her or hers cowards.
I’d expect that military familes would want to support the very ones who ARE standing up and taking the risk. I’d hope that the military would want to have a voice.
Janet, looks like all that craziness in your previous diary happened while I was at work and I missed it all.
But I’d like to say, in my humble opinion, that when Tracy claims that you have said things about her/her husband/the military that you have not said, she is really voicing the part of the battle that is going on inside her, but she dare not speak. And I do think she has a battle raging inside. One side wants to support her husband, and the other wants to stand with you and Lt. Watada. The latter she just can’t speak, much less embrace. So she rails at others she “hears” saying those things.
None of this excuses how she has treated you or others. I just wish she could share the battle with us, rather than project it onto everyone.
Enough of my 2 cents.
Please help me out here, BooMan. I am trying hard to get this.
Suppose I were to drive a truck around with a big sign on it that said “Stop the War now, stop paying your income taxes”. Since I am not currently earning an income, and pay no income taxes, I have no right to ask others to stop paying theirs? However, if I drove the truck with that sign through several redlights in an attempt to draw attention to the sign and I risked being arrested for reckless driving, then I would have a valid opinion?
Please deconstruct my argument, as I’m very very confused right now.
I’ve been told I shouldn’t have an opinion about the war.. because I don’t have a child in Iraq… The same argument resurfaces and changes… but is still the same.
“You don’t agree… then you shouldn’t be allowed to have a voice.”
what is complicated? Are you willing to go to jail to protest this war? If you are, then by all means go ahead and ask others to join you. If you are not, then do not ask others to do what you are not willing to do. The fact that you don’t pay income taxes isn’t the issue. The issue is whether you would pay them if you owed them.
To tell a soldier to disobey orders, lose their paycheck, be court martialed and dishonorably discharged and imprisoned, is asking for a tremendous amount more than a mere IRS evasion charge. And yet, people have the gall to get on a high horse and won’t make a similar sacrifice.
Why is this hard to grasp? This is just one more reason why I think there should be a national service requirement, so that people don’t feel so alientated from the military that they can erect double standards. Paying your taxes is the same act of war as discharging your weapon in Iraq.
If you wan’t people to go to jail rather than carry out their duty, then you should do the same. Courage is courage. And if you say that people should collectively stop paying their taxes and you take the lead, then you will have my admiration.
But to talk down to someone when you are not making the same sacrifice? We need an army. It’s not their fault that Bush won election and reelection. They are in a tight spot. As we all are.
so we have the GALL to call for peace.. but we shouldn’t since we ourselves refuse to pick up a gun??
I’m asking that they don’t go to war…
The Few, The Brave… the gagged. Not so brave now are they? Not when it’s their ass on the line. When it’s their paycheck… but they expect everyone else to support the war DESPITE how screwed up it is and despite how many war crimes are being committed.
Your argument makes no sense, Booman.
I guess the same logic would say you should have no opinion on South Dakota rapist rights laws… since your not likely to get pregnant. Rubbish.
no Janet.
There is a difference between asking for the U.S. to remove their troops from Iraq and asking invividual soldiers to go to jail.
There is no gagging of anyone. You ask them to not pick up their weapons? Okay. I ask you to not pick up your checkbook and pay the IRS.
That has nothing to do with whether you advocate for the end of the war or not. Totally unrelated. I never said you should join the military so you can refuse to carry out your orders. Tracy said that. You don’t need to do that. All you need to do is stop paying your taxes. It’s simple.
Otherwise, you can support soldiers that refuse to obey their orders, but you shouldn’t hold soldiers that do not to a higher standard than you hold yourself.
We are all complicit. Our soldiers already take almost all of the risk, they can’t be asked to take all the consequences too. It’s not right.
They are there at the mercy of our civilian leadership and our first duty is to give them decent responsible leadership.
Our votes didn’t matter. So now what?? We just sit back and wait for another election?
I pay my taxes because I feel that the schools need every penny they can get, as well as volunteer at the schools and donate supplies.
I will tell you what is not right for the military… they really should police themselves a bit better don’t you think. They in many ways are like this administration after 9-11. All the support in the world and it’s been turned to what?? Haditha, Abu Ghraib, rapes, murders, rampages… and this code of silence. All the support and… it’s no longer there. Too many dead babies, Booman, too many lies and too many body bags.
Either you’re with us or against us, right? Wrong.
There is a medium to all this. It’s not black or white.
Watada is showing that. That is why I support his standing up. He’s not anti-military, he’s not even anti-war….
Also I have never asked someone to go out and risk, to go out and protest, to march… to go out of their levels.
Janet-
You pay your taxes so kids can get an education, and Tracy’s husband goes to Iraq so that his soldiers can have decent, disciplined leadership that wont tolerate atrocities or the deliberate targetting of civilians, and that they will be led competently.
We all make our compromises. If someone refuses to serve in Iraq I will defend that decision. That’s is not the issue. I will also defend someone that thinks they can make a more positive contribution by fulfilling their duty.
I’ll even defend the position of someone that says all the soldiers should stay home and go to jail, so long as that person is in or headed for jail themselves.
The reality in Iraq is very, very complicated. Do you know how hard it is for me to call for a pull-out of our troops when I know it is a death sentence to probably hundreds of thousands of human beings? Do you ever consider that we screwed up Iraq so badly that ironically we are the only thing standing between the unspeakeable carnage we see today and total genocide on an unimaginable scale?
We have a whole regional problem now. Israel is about to do a major ground invasion of Lebanon and Syria is on high alert. It’s entirely possible that Israel will drive right on to Damascus.
The Bushes have pushed the whole region to the brink. But it is not clear at all that our soldiers in Iraq have an affirmative duty to shirk their orders. It might seem that way in some simplistic formula that there never should have been there in the first place, but it is not so clear.
Ask the Iraqis what they want. I bet most of them are terrified of us leaving and with very good reason. That is why the whole thing is so tragic. But to think we can make things better simply by promoting mutiny in the ranks? I really don’t think so. And I certainly wouldn’t get sanctimonious about it unless I were willing to share time in prison with those I ask to make that sacrifice. Funding schools doesn’t cut it in my book.
Okay fine..
I’m sanctimonious and I’m know nothing. And I’m not
willing to go to jail.
And my personal ass or husband or child or (fill in the blank) isn’t in Iraq.
At least I wasn’t a prick.
I’m out of here. I’m tired of fighting words, tired of fighting democrat politicians who do nothing and stand for even less… while CHILDREN ARE DYING!!!!!
There are no heros in an illegal war. Remember that.
One day we’ll all be arrested for having the audacity,,, the GALL to think for ourselves.
all I ask is that I’m given 24 hours to copy some of my diaries…
I have to leave and go somewhere right now and I won’t be home for a few hours …
Dear Janet:
I have been in jail. I do not pay my taxes. I have had my life threatened.
To those who say that you should be willing to go to jail, I say they have no idea what they are talking about. Most people do what they do, not because they are willing to go to jail, but because they believe that they will get away with it. Lt Wanda is a rear exception. He is a brave man indeed. But I’m sure he also knows that going to jail is a piece of cake comparing to what it must be going to Irak. And to commit all the atrocities that have been happening there. And, if all of us who are willing to stand up for him, went to jail, there would not be anyone left to fight for him.
Some time ago I wrote to you:” Now what? This is what. You are indeed a brave woman. I’m happy that you are here. Specially since you are among the few who is willing to walk the talk.
If I understood correctly that you be given 24 Hs to copy some of you diaries and then leave, I honestly hope you don’t do that. Don’t you give up so easily, don’t give up your fight. I know you are not a quiter!!
This sentence in particular deserves to be highlighted and repeated as often as is necessary.
I’ve had many write to me, email me saying not to quit… I’m going to wait.
Last night I was tired and had to see several get reamed. I had a diary get hijacked… I’ve written a diary about War Resisters and Watada before it never got this “attention”.
What hurts is the bit about being called “sanctimonious” that I should enlist, resist and then go to jail… otherwise I was asking others to something I wouldn’t do. BULL!. I wasn’t asking anyone to do anything but show support for a man who was standing up. He wasn’t going awol or claiming a false CO… I’ll stand by that.
I don’t ask others go out and protest in the street. I would like for them too… I don’t ask that they do what I do or what others do. So I see that as a HUGE slap in the face. But I can handle slaps… it’s just when they come out of the blue… is when they’re a bit harder.
I’m not a quitter but it was pretty sad to see friends go at each other’s friend’s throats. It’s the same exact abuse and verbage we see at the street level. I just didn’t want to be a part of a “flame war” that will divide a community even more.
Sanctimonious part… that was uncalled for. Just because my family isn’t in the military doesn’t mean mine or others… aren’t of opinions or solutions.
That’s the same crap that says … military families matter and NOT the Iraqi families.
That I should enlist before I dare ask others to resist is actually sickening to find on a “progressive website”.. I hear that crap from Freeper types. They same argument could be said that before we all ask that the military kill for us… that we should be willling to kill, too.
It’s a pathetic excuse to a debate.
I will take some time though. I’m here because I care and because I know alot of people were hurt last night.
All I can say is that we are lucky to have you here. As for the sanctimonious part, that is just a label. You are nothing at all like that. You are a damm corageous woman, that is puting her money were their mouth is. You are one of the very few here who is doing something else than typing. Dont you ever give up. Lt Wanda is lucky to have you fighting for him. And don’t you worry too much for him. He will be fine. Jail isn’t that bad. All it takes is getting used to it. In the mean time: give em hell girl
Janet-
I’m not sure if you have been understanding my argument. My argument is that if someone makes a moral argument that the troops need to refuse to participate in the war in Iraq or they are bad people, then the same can be said for the people that finance that war. And when someone asks a soldier to refuse to participate they are also asking them to accept jailtime, the loss of a career, and a dishonorable discharge that will make it hard to find good work in the future. And if the person making that argument is unwilling to make any similar sacrifice, and continues financing the war, that it can come off as sanctimonius.
I am not saying that you were making that argument, although it seemed that Tracy was arguing that you had made it in the past.
Insofar as that was what was bothering Tracy, I am sympathetic to her position, but not at all to the way she went about making her position known.
I have no sympathy for her argument that you should enlist, and get jailed for refusing orders.
As for conscientious objectors, there is no inconsistency in encouraging them and supporting them. But there is something wrong, IMO, with standing in judgment of those that refuse to be CO’s when the critic is not taking similar extreme steps.
I hope that is clear, in terms of what I was trying to say.
Tracy is no longer a member of the site so you don’t have to worry about eggshells anymore.
Tracy was projecting alot of her pain and hurt on stuff that actually wasn’t about her at all. Even when tried to make it apparently so…
We all know she’s in pain. I don’t think any of us changed our tone or our ways… I think the only change was that her spouse was returning to Iraq.
None of this is really clear except that now we will be unable to support someone we care and love.
The lashing out got very extreme … we all said to help her. For her to be calm and find help… Obviously I’m not in that “circle” any more so I couldn’t even call her… because I know she hates me now because.. she hates that her husband is going away. Another casualty of war. Loss of friends who were allies and support.
She had to lash out at us. As all do eventually.
Can I not ask a police officer in my city, who voluntarily signed her oath and receives a paycheck from the public funds, to resign from the force in protest against rampant police brutality among her fellow officers, if this will result in her getting blacklisted from police work? I guess I risk being called ‘sanctimonious’ if I’m not willing to withhold the fifty dollar annual business license fee that I pay to the city, huh? Where does this moral equivalency test end and where does it begin?
Although you bailed on me upthread, this is still a serious problem. It seems that no one who believes in this moral equivalency test for non-sanctimoniousness can define the limits of sanctimony for me.
Well, I’ve been called sanctimonious before, IIRC it was the reason I came here, to escape people who are so sanctimomious as to call me sanctimonious for asking someone to do something they alone can do, which I happen to believe is a morally correct thing to do. It is de facto the case that if I believe it is moral for her resign, then I may not support her if she refuses to do so.
The argument that I then consider her a ‘bad person’ is a specious one, and is indeed, an anomalous argument thrown in for effect. This is precisely the effect that those who wish to stop the calls for civil disobedience by members of the armed forces use. They label those among us who would call for such actions as ‘sanctimonious’, because we apparently don’t have enough ‘skin in the game’ to have a valid moral opinion.
sanctimonius means “Feigning piety or righteousness”.
At issue is what it means to demand righteousness from others. If your sister was working at the police department and it became clear the department was corrupt and brutal, you might demand that she resign for her job. Your argument would have even more weight if you offered to help pay her rent until she found another job.
But if she pointed out that your boss was equally corrupt and was a major ally of the police commissioner and demanded that you also resign, well..what would you say?
When you ask someone to do what you are not willing to do yourself in some similar circumstance you are engaging a form of false righteousness.
Rather than pursue this line of argument, you might focus more on the dissimilarity of the circumstances. In this case, there is a difference between eating Veal Scallapini and slaughtering a baby cow. But where that difference lies is not always so clear. I’d argue that if you want them to stop slaughtering baby cows, you should stop ordering veal.
But then you might say, well, I didn’t order the veal. My answer is that the Veal is on the house, and unless you refuse to go to that restaurant you are paying for the veal.
There is a moral equivalency.
This analogy is not perfect, but it works fairly well.
I think that the issue of going to jail is wrong from the begining. I would think it is mare accurate to ask : If we (the civilians) are asked to repect the law (and I know I’m not a good example) shouldnt the military also be expected to repect the militry code of justice, and all laws of this country? Why make an exeption for them? And as long as DJ is willing to respect the laws, she has every right to question those who dont.
OK, this seems to be getting us nowhere, because I think we are talking past one another. I just reread this diary and could not identify anywhere in it that anyone was demanding that anyone do anything. My argument has been about asking people to do things. I long ago gave up on demanding that anyone do anything, as it leads to nowhere, unless I’m supervising a small child in a potentially dangerous situation, and even then it doesn’t always work.
You are correct that if I demand that someone do something, I am probably sanctimonious. This logically follows from applying the definition of the word sanctimonious, imo. I think that demanding that someone do something, whether you would do or have done the same or not, is nearly always sanctimonious behavior.
Asking or even pleading with someone to do what you consider to be the right thing is likewise almost never sanctimonious, imo. It can lead to helping someone else understand your point of view and choosing or not choosing to do what you ask them to do. This is consistent with respecting their right to say “no, I don’t believe as you believe” and allowing them to remain unconvinced by your asking.
There is no harm in asking for people to do things that you believe are morally correct, and I believe that it is morally incorrect to impose the definition of sanctimony onto someone who merely asks someone to do the ‘right’ thing. Stifling discourse in this way stinks of bullying to me, the same way that demanding that someone else follow one’s own moral compass is bullying.
Just because someone is not in the same position that another person is in does not mean that they are engaging in morally deficient behavior by asking someone else to do something moral. For example, is it sanctimonious for a man to ask his paramour not to have an abortion, simply because he has no womb and can not possibly have a comparable sacrifice or experience like pregnancy and childbirth? If he recognizes her right to have an abortion against his wishes, I say that asking her to follow his moral code is not sanctimonious at all.
After that, you can argue about degrees of separation ’til the cows come home. Is the person who goes to your hypothetical restaurant, pays the cover charge and buys nothing, but enjoys the music the band is playing, a cow-killer, too? What about the parking attendant who works for an independent parking attendant company contracted by the restaurant to park your car? Is she a cow-killer? We are all ultimately connected to everything anyone else does or does not do.
Finally, IF I were to ask a soldier to lay down his weapon and suffer the consequences, I can’t possibly see how that could be sanctimonious, under almost any circumstances. In my opinion, asking soldiers for peace is going straight to the source – those who have NO degrees of separation from the war. It is efficient and effective if I can convince enough soldiers to do this. However, if I am personally in jail, I will be ineffective in my efforts to stop the war because I can no longer personally ask soldiers to lay down their weapons. If I were effective at personally asking soldiers to lay down their weapons and ending this war, I might consider it IMMORAL to risk going to jail, because I would not be able to work hard to stop the war which is killing lots of people while I sit in jail.
i think you are coming around to my point of view.
Perhaps you are finally agreeing with me because I have made such an excellent argument, with bold-face words, too.
A fairly decent definition and description of militarism in its various guises can be found here. There is little doubt in my mind that a militarist mentality affects debate and discussion in liberal and progressive communities, and has for quite some time. Granted, the progressive flavor has a somewhat “friendlier” tone to it – we’ll use our military largess for “good” rather than for sheer raw power, presumably – but the end result is really not much different: wars will still be started, “defense” contractors will continue to receive their welfare checks so that new and ever more destructive weapon systems can be developed, and many will suffer both at home and abroad either from the systemic violence associated with militarism (i.e., systematic prevention of access to necessary resources such as health care), organizational violence (i.e., bureaucratic decisions to start wars, etc.), and interpersonal violence (whether in the form of slaughtering, raping, or torturing civilians abroad, or at home as those who have witnessed or participated in highly stressful wartime situations try to cope largely without help & end up lashing out at family, neighbors, or strangers who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time).
For those who truly believe in the warmer and fuzzier version of liberal/progressive militarism, pointing such issues out is simply unthinkable and has to be dismissed and silenced asap – which is why the discussion might get reframed in some mindboggling fashion, or if all else fails simple name-calling can suffice (hence, the terms such as “sanctimonious”, “privileged”, and “anti-American” get a heavy workout).
what i don’t understand is why you seem to not take what I am saying seriously. I never said any of the things you just attributed to me.
I am only voicing my opinion here.
Just on one issue, the humanitarian one, there is a strong argument that ten of thousands more people will die if we pull out tomorrow than if we stay for five years. I don’t know. And I don’t know that it won’t happen anyway five years later. My fear is that it will happen anyway and that is why I think we should pull out.
But if someone else thinks we might be able to prevent that, then I am not so sure they are wrong that I am going to ask them to go to jail.
Is this so offensive to you?
Dear Janet
From a grizzled old activist vet, tO to a non grizzeld activist:
All powerful engines need to pause for refauling.
Step back a bit.
Hook up to the nerest refueling station.
Get some rest.
Eat something good.
Rebalance.
Spend some time with your nose in your childs hair.
When rejuevenated, pick up the bif sign and carry on, sister, right where you are now, online and off
Got your back. Lots of us do.
You have the right to speak for me. Thanks!!!
you can support soldiers that refuse to obey their orders, but you shouldn’t hold soldiers that do not to a higher standard than you hold yourself.
Booman, I hope you can see that Janet’s diary was clearly an attempt to do the former, and it was Tracy who came in implying and fighting the later.
And for me, I don’t think refusing to pay your federal taxes is the only way to put your ass on the line about all of this. But I do think its time for me to think about where my fat ass needs to be right now to cross a line. While I’d love to see Lamont kick Joe’s ass, that’s just not enough to get us where we need to go.
asking individual soldiers… No one asked anyone here to not go.
I asked my husband and he said that the military brainwashes you when you’re in.. but having the support of a peace activist at home.. know what he knows, knowing the list that Watada read/studied… he wouldn’t go. And it’d be hell either way.
No one asked anyone else here. I’m supporting one man who is though.
Time to stop asking and start demanding
BooMan, you are comparing apples and oranges. This argument that those of us who think the soldiers should say “Sir, No Sir” is not the same as not paying taxes and going to jail for it.
If I had a position of power and if my speaking out might end this war and boot the neocons to jail, then there is a good chance I would do it, even with a 12 year old daughter. It would be hard and it would suck, but if I thought my courage might lead to further courage and if I thought my sacrifice might mean the lives of dozens of young children, then yes, I might take that chance.
Not paying my taxes will only hurt the poor. The military gets first dibs so it is stupid protest.
Do you think Janet’s family will benefit if she is arrested? Do you think her autistic son will understand why mommy can’t come home for the week? But this is what she is asking them to do. She knows her protests are putting her family on the line and she knows that she may not come home some night. And she knows that she will have to spend countless dollars and hours should she be arrested.
Not paying her taxes will not send even a tenth of the message that she is sending every week, it will not even be noticed.
I also find the way the whole issue here is getting framed, i.e. that some of us are “asking” people to go to jail. I don’t recall ever asking anyone to do such a thing, nor do I think that was the point of this diary.
Exactly, you and Kamakhya, and Blueneck and lets add Scribe to that have been right on..imo….
I think you hit on a good point here, a discussion starts out framed one way, then someone comes in and shifts the frame 180 deg. and off magnetic north and then the discussion becomes about that. I guess you could say the topic is totally distorted and then comes the fighting and pretty soon someone says, well, I can’t be on this site anymore.
I was willing to be arrested for Lt. Watada a while back. I was going to lay on the base entrance road.
Lt. Watada did not want me to be hurt. Not only arrested, but he said doing that would surely get me hurt. I’d face arrest by the local police, the military police and the Feds.
My husband and best friend cried and pleaded for days for me not to do this one thing.
They said make it matter not martyr. And that I do risk arrest each time I do an event. Some of the events are in Federal buildings, guys. I do risk. But I want my risk to MATTER. Not just so I can wear a pin that says I was rounded up.
So many I know aren’t involved because they have kids, they have an ill family member… even if I was held for ONE NIGHT it would be a hardship on my son. But… I still go out. … with my as Booman said, my “sanctimonious self”… :*(
My diary does not ask anyone to do the same as Lt. Watada and others have… The diary was to do two things:
An action alert for those who wanted to show their support for his resistance and how they could and when.
And talk about the laws and illegality of the war.
I guess I understand your position now. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is that before I advocate soldiers standing down I must go and join the military and then refuse to report for duty and go to military jail for it so that I have will have a moral right to ask others to do the same. After all, civilian jail is not equivalent to military jail. So, actually going to civilian jail is not good enough for me to have a right to ask soldiers to stand down because I would not have the moral authority equivalence that this argument requires.
Suppose that I am a quadriplegic computer programmer who depends on others for my every need and who will not be imprisoned for tax evasion because it would cost too much to support me in jail. I already live under virtual house arrest because of my physical condition, so that won’t work as a punishment either. Therefore I must not ask soldiers to stop the war because I am helpless to go to jail myself?
When I was of drafting age, I refused to register. I risked going to jail back then. Does that qualify me now or should I have to renew my qualification in order to ask a present-day soldier to stand down? If so, how often do I have to renew my moral privilege license?
I believe that it is my right and obligation to ask people to do things that will help stop this war, regardless of the consequences to myself or the lack thereof.
you can devise a complicated moral dilemma for any situation.
The basics are the same.
Do you think it is immoral for a soldier to go to Iraq and do what he is ordered to do? If you think that, and it is a position that can be supported with sound, if inconclusive, arguments, then what do you think about a person that pays his taxes? Should they not also refuse to do their duty and make their contribution to the war effort? What excuse do they have? That they didn’t vote for Bush, that they didn’t raise a weapon? No. There is no excuse.
You have the right to ask anyone to do anything, but you can’t ask someone to go to jail when you are not willing to do the same. If they are not going to put you in jail, regardless, then I guess you get a pass. But that is just an anomolous argument.
To be serious about this, there is nothing wrong with applauding someone that has more courage than you do and assisting them. There is nothing wrong with encouraging people to be courageous. But there is definitely something wrong with dissing people that don’t see things your way and calling for them to take consequences you yourself are not willing to take.
All of this is very frustrating because we about to be overwhelmed by issues military that will dwarf the parameters of this debate. Israel is moving on the ground. Syria is mobilizing.
One can take any complicated moral dilemma and oversimplify it to the point that it has no meaning.
One can also argue that morally inequivalent actions are somehow equivalent.
I can full well imagine that if I were in the military right now I would stand down and go to jail. However, it not possible for me to experience this penalty as I am not in the military. As a moral equivalent, you propose that I not pay income taxes in order to put myself in some sort of equivalent jeopardy, when the equivalence is not clear to me at all. My income taxes, if I were obligated to pay them at this time, would go for many things, not just the Iraq war. A soldier who lays down his weapon has the one unadulterated option to stop this war that is not available to me. Nothing I could do would have the moral equivalence to or the direct effect of such an action by a soldier.
I have never dissed a soldier who follows orders. By placing that argument in your reply to me, you have implied that I have done so when I have not. And while I have come awfully close to asking soldiers to quit this war, I don’t think I have actually done that either. All I’m trying to do here is figure out how to win my moral equivalence license before I consider whether or not to do so.
This is an important issue, and it speaks directly to what you think I have a moral right to ask my military friends to do in order to stop this war before it spreads to American involvement in Syria and Iran.
This all goes to the alienation the general public feels for the military. We don’t feel like we have a part to play in the national defense. Somehow we attribute some kind of culpability to those that choose to serve that we do not share. I think that is a false consciousness. If anything, those that choose to serve voluntarily put themselves at great risk and deserve some presumption that their sacrifice confers a degree of latitude. Namely, they give up the right to criticize the President, so we shouldn’t hold them to a civilian standard for criticizing the President. They are simply not as free to do so as we are.
We ask these folks to protect us, and we pay for it. That is ALL we do. We pay for it. So, when we disagree with what they are asked to do, we have to make tough decisions. I have given up making reasonable money to work for peanuts to try to change their political leadership. But I haven’t refused to pay for this war and I haven’t demanded that the soldiers break the law and refuse to fight it. I respect people that are willing to do those things. But I am having trouble with the idea that Tracy’s husband should go to jail while I should remain free. I cannot put him in that situation. If he should go to jail, so should I. In fact, I should go before he goes, because my imprisonment will not result in the loss of an experienced officer that might provide much needed leadership for our armed forces.
When you demand that people go to jail rather than carry out what you consider to be immoral orders, then you need to understand the magnitude of what you are asking. Why does the soldier carry this burden and the civilian does not?
I cannot think of any reason. Your argument that your sacrifice will not be as effective is unconvincing. None of it would be effective unless the behavior was universalized. We are talking about personal moral decisions, political statements, and personal sacrifices.
None of it will change the course of history.
They carry this burden precisely because they have chosen it and for no other reason. It does not follow that I as a civilian can not have moral standing to ask them to make a difficult choice unless I undergo some ordeal that is magically ordained as morally equivalent.
The converse argument is that I have no right to ask our military to intervene in Darfur unless I’m willing to sign up for the military and go there myself. Or perform some action that you deem as morally equivalent.
The fact of the matter is that BECAUSE I have helped pay for this military, I have a right to ask them to do anything I please. I have paid plenty of taxes in the past, every penny that I was legally obligated to pay. I have personally probably paid for a tank and four soldiers to operate it for a dozen years. They do not have to do what I ask them, but they do owe it to me to listen to my argument if I choose to make one. Stifling dissent by imposing external moral equivalence standards is itself morally inexcusable and can’t be defended.
I have never “demanded” that anyone go to jail. I might in the future ASK some soldiers to do so, but first I have to earn my moral equivalence license. This is apparently difficult to do, so I may never be able to ask anyone to make any hard decisions in the future. I will have to check in with the moral authority equivalence licensure board prior to doing so, I suppose.
Thank you for your ability to use words in a way that I cannot. I can sometimes only do what I feel and I flub it up with words.
Words can be dangerous things. I am not at all near perfect in my abilities to use them. I have never been able to communicate all of what I think and feel in words. If I have any ability at all, as you say that I have, I owe that first to my mother, then to my father, then to at least a dozen exceptional teachers. I accept your thanks on their behalf.
I do wish to make clear, for the record, that you and I have had some civil discourse concerning certain matters in the first edition of this diary, and though you may agree with me here, it does not necessarily imply that I am in full agreement with everything that you have written in these diaries. I do have some reservations. I do respect that your interactions with me have been civil. That is all that I ask of anyone, here or anywhere else. I value everyone’s perspective, but do not often agree with everything anyone says.
Ack I meant ditto on all points in this interaction – with booman regarding the going to jail – the subject line was too long… and I didn’t add it in. I’m tired and the kids are still up.
I know we don’t always agree… and that’s okay. That’s how we grown and learn… and sometimes how we know that what we stood for was on the correct footing to begin with. Sometime we learn that we need to bend.. other times when not to give in. Hell, even my husband and I aren’t in total agreement about war protests… he thinks we should be more “combative” … liek take over a major news station… ahem. He is NOT a peace activist. 🙂
I don’t believe there’s been a time in here that I’ve been uncivil simply because someone disagreed with me. I did go toe to toe once with a politician about rape clinics though and such… In fact I’m more likely to find fault within my own self than think the other way… “well they must know what they’re talking about”… But I’m not a push over either and if there’s one things these thread hijackings have shown me is that I do have something to offer as well as to stick up for.
….
But this was supposed to be about education and learning and getting others support or perspective and I thank you for that opportunity.
Yes it’s getting late here, too! …And you do have a lot to offer. I thank you for sharing here. I also believe that Tracy has a lot to offer, and I thank her as well. I also thank her for her restraint in not commenting in this edition of your diary, though I see that she has given some positive ratings.
In the final analysis, I am still somewhat undecided about my position on the substantive opinions contained in these diaries. However, as someone else once said “I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to my death your right to say it.” Seems like a pretty strong “American” position to take, to me.
BooMan writes: “You have the right to ask anyone to do anything, but you can’t ask someone to go to jail when you are not willing to do the same.””
I understand that this in your opinion, and that you have every right to it. But you do not, IMO, have any authority to “tell” amyone else, what they can and cannot ask or say or believe, as you have in the above statement. It is your opinion, worth no more, and no less, than anyone elses opinion.
Where’s NorthDakotaDemocrat when we need him?
I do think that taking non-violent steps that risk jail is perhaps what’s called for. We need to start organizing an action like Rosa’s not-going-to-the-back-of-the-bus.
Sounds like not paying federal income taxes might be a bit complicated. But I’d like to stand with Lt. Watada in a statement that this administration’s wars on other people and the constitution are ILLEGAL.
Right now the only way I can show support that this war is wrong is to support the war resisters. To keep their names on our lips and in our memory. To do press releases for their vigils… to attend their rallies.
Along with other stuff I do, of course.
I think NDD was talking about writing a new diary on this … I’ll make sure he sees this diary.
What in the hell else can we do?
Effective Counter Attack; Consideration or Implosion?
Two off my hotlist.
Thanks for the reminders, ejmw. Two excellent diaries, for sure.
Thanks from me too for the links. I’ll save them and read them tomorrow as its late and I want to give them my full attention. I think its time!!
I seem to have an uncanny ability to miss flame wars…how I don’t know as it seems I am here almost every day yet miss them I do then wonder what the heck people are talking about or what happened to some people.
So as always late to this shindig too…very glad you reposted this diary janet, thank you.
It is friends like you Chocolate Ink that are why I make most of the action alerts and then follow up photo diaries for… you help me get there… and I show you where your support took me.
First – thank you for keeping us informed about Lt. Watada. It is important to know about and be given the opportunity to support someone who “stands up.”
Second – thank you for working to support Lt. Watada and all your efforts to stop the occupation in Iraq.
Third – thank you for sharing your thoughts and steps in becoming a pacifist. I am learning from you.
My opinion – we cannot ask others to do anything. We cannot expect others to do anything. We can only make our own choices. To judge others, to say what we would do in one circumstance or another is, to say this is the right way, imo, entering dangerous territory – nothing is to be gained by going there.
I read a bit ago someone’s comment about the “engineer” of the train taking “undesirables” to the camps. I interpreted that the train engineer was civilian. How do civilians contribute to what the U.S. government is doing?
Our, the U.S.’s, greatest export is weapons. There was a $4.6 billion dollar sale just last week – all around the middle east. Business was good – profits were made.
Now, how many people are employed by all the industries that are connected to the production and manufacturing and selling of weapons? And how many communities surround the industries, servicing those who work directly in the weapons industry? How many schools are funded?
And oil, oh my. ExxonMobile posted greater profits last week for the last quarter than expected. ExxonMobile has more money than all but 8 nations.
Would the U.S. even be involved in the Middle East if there was no oil?
And how many of us consume oil and oil products? How much of the food we eat and clothes we wear and stuff we feel we need involves oil?
“Americans” and non-Americans living in the U.S. must pay federal taxes or, eventually, go to jail.
How far will each of us go in stopping the insanity? It is a personal question – with a personal answer.
It is not easy to puzzle all of this out. And even if we decide for ourselves where we stand, we may have personal complications like spouses and children.
I am trying not to kill anything, but flies are giving me a problem. 😉
Janet, I also appreciate the info-thanks!
I do what I can to further the cause of peace (or at least the getting-along-well-enough-not-to-maim-or-kill- each-other) and as much as I can against anti-human rights policies in this country. Sometimes it’s not much but drops of water wear down the hardest rock eventually.
It’s really all that’s asked of us, to do what we are able to do ineach moment. I admire your courage in stepping out of your comfort zone to speak your truth “even when your voice shakes”.
Janet,
I’ve read much of this and the original post, and I am at a loss for words. Thanks for the information, I’m just sorry that things have gotten so, divided. I had nothing useful to contribute to the ongoing discussion and withheld commenting until now. There are many things posted here, some with which I agree, some not. I take what I find to be useful and leave the rest. If I feel the need to leave a critical comment (as to content), I do so. There is usually not any reason to go beyond those boundaries.
Be well, and don’t leave us.
Just by way of announcement: militarytracy is no longer a member here. She wasn’t banned. It is her decision and it is related to her husband, his co-workers, and their opinion of the recent threads.
She feels enough pressure to disassociate herself from this site that she has demanded that I erase all her diaries. I resisted this, but will do it as a personal favor because she feels it is necessary to protect her family and her husband’s career.
I think it’s a sad day. At some point I began to feel that she was trying to get banned on purpose in order to distance herself from a ‘left’ blog, out of fear for retaliation against her husband by the powers that be.
Chalk up the creation of angst there and here to the march toward fascist totalitarianism, where all dissent is squashed by whatever means necessary.
So, the only winner in all this is the military powers that be. Doesn’t that say something about our government? Doesn’t that tell each of us that there really is no more freedom of speech?
Yes there is still freedom of speech and I’ll tell you how I know that. Last night Diva said that she was taken on a trip to an exhibit, when asked how she liked it she said to the effect”I didn’t, I thought it was dumb and I would have rather been doing somthing worthwhile, like figuring out my immediate future, etc. ” She said that she was so happy to be able to say that,it felt so good, and the only person who objected to it was someone from Iraq.
We may not have the total freedoms we once enjoyed but we do have that much, we can speak our minds in a lot of venues, esp. this internet, and so on. Not perfect, but not lost either.
It is really interesting to hear things from Diva’s perspective and I really wish we could have dialogue with her here, but that will have to wait.
Another aside here, I was watching larry king and I mentioned that Queen Noor was being interviewed, she asked who was interviewer and I said well his name is Larry King, but you probably don’t know who he is, “Larry King” she shouted, Diane my dear friend, who in the world does not know the name Larry King.”
There is a difference between military personnel and civilians. It’s called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Once a citizen signs over their life to the military, they become second class citizens.
And, if I understand it correctly, that particular signature surrenders a person’s rights to the UCMJ for life. A person then becomes subject to emergency recall indefinitely. The UCMJ is no piece of cake, and the penalties for dissent are huge compared to a regular civilian who dissents.
This makes it more difficult for an active member to say what they think, as they are expressly prohibited by the terms of their enlistment from doing so. So, free speech amongst the military is one thing. Free speech by their relatives is supposed to be another thing. Apparently it is now the case that free speech is highly discouraged among the relatives of members of the armed forces even though they are not subject to the UCMJ.
As for the rest of us, we are being watched, and our dissent is being duly noted. How far retaliation goes is a function of how effective you become in your dissent. This is the way of the powers that be.
her husband’s co-workers??!! You mean others in his unit.
You must know of the violence that sometimes happens in homes, the lashing out, right? Before and after a deployment, right? She’s even spoken of it.
I can only imagine the “pressure” she must’ve been under now.
there hasn’t been any violence. Just angry soldiers that do not agree with the tenor of these threads.
This bothers me. I understand they are not free to speak freely themselves, according to military law. So they sit back and watch a woman, a military wife under incredible personal stressors of her own, speak on their behalf? Then, when they don’t like the outcome, they pressure her to stop?
I don’t claim to know that these are the dynamics at play here, but if they are, it would be reprehensible, in my book.
After taking much bashing as being sanctimonious. I want to defend my family from that accusation
Both my children are incredible activists in their own right and on their own issues. Danni: is anti-war and my son Wesley: animals and recycling and now… organic food.
We were without insurance for three years after a layoff. My husband was able to get a job that offered meager benefits and was 5 miles away from home so he took it but after 18 months he and our family couldn’t stomach it. I have spoken to Ask about this. It was killing our souls. And we agreed as a family to find a new way. Which meant re-entering the high-tech industry so we could afford to “get out”.
We got the house ready to sell, lived in it while we remodeled, searched for a new PROGRESSIVE area to live and he quit his defense contract job.
He has gotten’ rid of every military garment and memory box. He now wears a Veterans For Peace Lapel pin and hopes to be more involved.
I fucking walk my talk. I don’t ask others to… but I and my family do.
Janet, my sweet friend, you don’t have to defend yourself, I don’t think there are many who read you who think for one minute you are sanctiminous, in fact I would take the opposite view, those who would call you that would in fact be the sanctimonious ones.
Here’s my sense Janet, most here support you and what you are doing, don’t let yesterday and the past throw you off your track.. You don’t owe anyone an explanation. We never bought the story.
Just like I will not defend myself against being a ‘soldier abuser’ as charged, it’s nonsense and preposterous, can’t respond to nonsense or it will eat you up.
Big big hugs and oodles of love, Your friend, Diane
Okay. Thanks Diane. 🙂 I really really have to get my kids to the library to return books and get new ones as I had said I would yesterday…
Take care… and I’m really sorry this diary took such a bad turn for so many.
It was meant to find yet another way to end wars… not create another one.