From the NYT’s Week in Review, a good question.
…the public appears evenly split on what to do about it. Half say the United States should keep its troops in Iraq and the other half want the soldiers brought home. Half support a firm timetable for withdrawal; the other half think that’s a bad idea.
So what’s a Democratic candidate for Congress to say about Iraq, beyond articulating a broad antiwar message? Should he or she present a detailed plan for extricating the country from the increasingly unpopular war? Offer support for a firm timetable for withdrawal but leave the start and end dates vague? Say that such decisions are best left to the generals on the ground? Or just keep pounding President Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and the Republicans in Congress for starting a misbegotten war with no way out?
What’s your answer?
and talk withdrawal with a timetable.The Dems weakest point by far is that they do not take stands. If it is done on this issue, then the Dems will look strong. If it is just left to, say nothing or be vague we are just left with the same old ineffective Dems. This will be interesting.
Just keep pounding on the incompetence of Condi, Rummy, Dick and the Dummy. Look, our generals on the ground know that they cannot “win” this war now. They know it, but they cannot admit it without seeing their careers go up in smoke. The Democrats must realize that they need to give cover to the generals as much as the generals need to give cover to the Democrats speaking out on their behalf. Until the ‘Publican meme is softened up enough for the military commanders on the ground facing this nightmare every day to push honest responses to questions about necessry force levels and prospects, the commanders will defer to the decision (not necessarily the judgement) of their current ‘Publican overlords. Taking a firm stance offers the only prospect to reaching at least an honest conclusion on what to do about this war. Once the public realizes that “success” of any sort in this war will require at least a half million troops on the ground and the expenditure of a trillion dollars a year for something like a half decade, Dubya’s position on the war will get blown away in the blink of an eye.
I think you summed up the solution to the Dem`s position. It`s imperative that the generals know they have firm support back home.
I believe that any plan the Dems come up with, will be poorly supported & intentionally caused to fail by the fools who perpetuated this fraud on the American people. This will eventually put the entire blame for this fiasco, of enormous proportion, on the Dems. VizierVic, if there`s any way the generals can be sure the Dems had their back, & were “softening up the Publican`s meme, your suggestion would possibly come earlier than you think. With the “Tantrum Monkey”`s demands last Friday, which puts troops in harms way more so than they already are, I think the generals are seeing that speaking up sooner than later would be sure to strengthen their carreer oportunities rather than ruin them.
This seems the best course. The biggest thing is to establish a storyline. The Repugs screwed up and screwed up bad. Until this is established over and over and over (and the right wing will never stop fighting it, even long after the question seems settled), then the Dems can’t take any action without being painted as the ones who lost the war.
What they said.
The Dem’s biggest weakness is they see those poll numbers and then are afraid to say ANYTHING, lest they alienate the half of the population whose votes they need. (Notice how that’s never stopped the Republicans.)
They need to take a stand. Withdrawal on a reasonable timetable (ie, Murtha’s plan, with consultation with the generals on the ground, etc.), because our presence there is just making things WORSE. We cannot stop what’s happening there now with the forces we have now. But if we did declare a timetable for withdrawal, and appeared to be sticking to it, it would give an added incentive to the Iraqi leadership to work things out, and it would hopefully take some of the determination out of the insurgency… if they beleived we were really going to d it. As long as we’re there “for the duration” then things will continue going from bad to worse. We’re a big part of the problem, we can’t solve it by staying.
The Democrats need to separate the whole “war on terrorism” concept from the ongoing conflicts in Iraq. Our being there does nothing to make Americans safer — and it certainly doesn’t make any Iraqis safer, either.
Yes, hammer on the Republicans’ lack of planning and their incompetence. Hammer on the fact that the vase is broken and nothing we do now will put the pieces back together… the only way any change in the situation is possible, that is under OUR control, is to remove our presence entirely — with sufficient notice to the Iraqi leadership so that they can do what they can to start forging whatever negotiations are possible with ALL the factions.
But above all, the Dems have to stop VASCILATING. Take a principled stand that is not a weak echo of the Republican one, be very clear as to what the principles are, and STICK TO IT. Nothing less will have a chance in hell of getting past the Republican bully pulpit — or gain the respect of voters.
The Dem’s biggest weakness is they see those poll numbers and then are afraid to say ANYTHING, lest they alienate the half of the population whose votes they need. (Notice how that’s never stopped the Republicans.)
Well, that’s because the R’s know they can count on the malleable 20% that will be swayed by their propaganda department, aka 2/3 of the media establishment.
The Dems of course have exactly the opposite situation. They know they will get slammed no matter what they do, and so, like a child telling a parent something upsetting, they mumble.
The bigger question is what should the American people do when their choices are limited to Dems and Repugs. REAL DEMOCRACIES have multiple parties which present a wide range of views – we have two parties which essentially are the same, and which conspire together by drawing voting district lines to limit the choices available to voters. Read Walter Karp’s “Indispensable Enemies: The Politics of Misrule in America”
Just lead! That’s all, lead! The way public opinioned is divided clearly reflects a rudderless ship of state. Make a decision, whether immediate withdrawal or timetable. It doesn’t matter at this point. When a leader stands up and says “this is what I am going to do, this is my plan” people will follow, even a lot of those who oppose it, why? Because it is a reasonable plan and decisive action that will lead us out of the status quo. People will rally behind that. Everyone here who has served in the military, and probably a lot of business folks too, will tell you how important decisiveness is. Make a decision because even a bad decision has some chance of success rather than no decision at all. Case in point: Rumsfeld and post-combat Iraq (non)planning.
Dems, just lead! Don’t worry if the majority supports a particular plan or not, make one and run with it. If it is reasonable, well thought out, then people will follow. Polls are like this now because no one has any idea what to do.
Remember to pack it into a powerpoint slide with 5 bullets for those who are nuanced-challenged.
So, just do it, lead!
That is exactly what leaders do. Take a group of folks who are wavering, and show them the way to go (sometimes right, sometimes wrong) and then get them to do it. Leadership does not mean figuring out what works best for you and then working for that. That is called management.
One of the worst things about the war is that there are no good solutions — only less lousy ones.
I agree the Dems should take a stand and make their case. No solution is going to solve all the problems. No solutions is going to satisfy all the voters. Since this is the case, it seems like a no-brainer that each Dem should speak from his or her own conscience and heart.
What should Dems do?
Oh what an amazing question.
How about another question, BooMan…
What Should Dems NOT DO?
😉
When you’ve got your circular firing squad water gun put back in your tin foil holster then I think you can start asking questions like this.
ALSO AVAILABLE IN “Call for Kossacks to Commit Suicide” ORANGE
It’s the economy, stupid.
Jobs, Health Care, A Living Wage.
Hammer away at Bush’s incompetence.
I totally agree with the above posters who are pushing for a withdrawl and reasonable timetable. I would add that Bush chooses to portray the threat of terrorism as a military solution… endless war. Even if you buy into that Bush fear message, at the same time, he has allowed Rumsfeld to mismanage the greatest army in the world to the breaking point. Now Bush wants to shove that broken army in Iran’s face. It seems as if many millions of people would respond to the need to get out of Iraq and rebuild our army for REAL military threats. Bush and his clowns, in their arrogant incompetence, have led the US into this most untenable position. There’s where the incompetence comes in.
Here’s yet another angle: Bush presents himself as ‘the war president’… protecting the homeland. Yet he can’t protect my rights as a US citizen, your rights as a member of the world’s largest democracy. Now he wants the power to imprison anyone, maybe me, maybe you, try them without presenting evidence and then execute them. How is that protecting any of us? You wanna be afraid? Be very afraid of Bush. Twist the fear factor back on the Moron in Chief.
Bush has given us so much ammunition I think a 12 year old should be able to piece together a message that will resonate with millions. I worry whether the Democrats will be able to do that.
Take off the gloves.
my wish…
each dem would give serious thought to what THEY think is good (and think long term here) for americans, iraqis and the world.
then they should honestly make the case – with argument supported by evidence as well as sound bites.
i am sick to death of policies being determined on what they think people what to hear. that gets the national conversation NOWHERE.
#1, stop listening to Republican stooges squawking about “What’s YOUR plan, huh?” The Dems need only be different, and plans are for when they get elected, and are in the majority.
#2, Hammer the daylights out of the Cheney/Bush administration on corruption, and the depravity of Bush’s Iraq war, and the undermining of the nation’s standing in the world.
#3, Let the lightning rods like Senator Clinton, Senator Schumer and Congressman Frank steer the pubbie noise machine into a blind alley where all the chatter amounts to a hill of beans.
#4, Openly embrace the displaced workers from Ford and other companies as their own!!! These Americans are victims of ruinous trade policies that threaten the nation’s financial independence, and even our defense! It is time to really think pro-
American here, ruthlessly, viciously pro-American! This runs counter to 25 years of economic theory, but if this theory is not rejected, and that damn quickly, we will lose our country.
#5 Disengage from Iraq in a series of progressive steps, starting in outer provincial SUNNI areas first. If the British want to stay, let them. It’s their troops that will suffer. The military, especially the Army and Marines needs to be rebuilt from the ground up just as we did in 1976. Redeployment to Afghanistan may be required in order to secure this area. Iraq, Iran, and Syria will require extensive diplomatic repair work which could require years of diligent persevering. The sooner we get started, the sooner it gets “better.”
#6 Talk to the public, and do not be afraid to tell the exact deadly truth. The public is resilient. Circumvent to L,SCLM and it’s lack-of-common-sense bloviators like Broder, Brooks, and Fields, and just pound home the cold truth irregardless of how terrible the state of the nation really is or isn’t.
#7 Attack domestic extremism with a deadly vehemence. Domestic terrorism is many times greater the threat than al Qa’ida. The extremists are already well known. They [domestic extremists] have been emboldened by the Cheney administration’s tolerance and political use of the religious and political arms of several well known extremist organizations. A signal of this crack down might be to give Morris Dees the Medal of Freedom for his years spent fighting hate and prejudice.
#8, Return to a policy of openly cultivating the best and brightest for administration and congressional staffing and secretarial slots. Return to a true Clinton-esque meritocracy. Completely rework the Department of Homeland security into a professional organization with civil service support, and stick to a police work/intelligence community clearinghouse approach.
#9 Tone down the fear in the public. Hysteria should become anti-American!-Simply Un-American and unacceptable. Next, assure the rights of Americans by passing at the Federal level civil union legislation for both unmarried heterosexual couples and homosexual couples, and codifying that life is considered to begin at the moment of quickening as per British common law, and that American women do have the right to abortion, and reproductive rights including birth control, or desired lack of it.
#10, Hire General Wesley Clark to run FEMA, and get it back up to speed. Next, rebuild both New Orleans and a new World Trade Center. Next, provide heavy government investment in Ford, GM, and GE locomotive for electric cars and hybrids. Canada can take care of Electro-Motive. don’t say it can’t be done. Yes it can and the Japanese are star examples of how to interlock the banks, Government, and industry into a powerful machine!
#11, “Drown” Grover Norquist and his grubby gang in a bathtub.
In my view, Dems should do what they feel in their heart and gut. If, by some miracle, they have an answer to the dilemma BushCo. has put us in regarding Iraq, Iran and the rest of the Middle East then they should lay it out there. If like most Americans, they do not have a rabbit up their sleeve, they should say what feels right. If they see no good coming from our 3.5 years of involvement in Iraq, and see no likelihood of good coming from more of the same, they should say that. It should however be framed as a enormous problem the bumbling folks at BushCo. cooked up for us, and still serve as the main bill of fair on a daily basis. I gave up eating at the trough a long time ago. I think a withdrawal after giving a time line to the Iraqi’s is the way to go.