She has pledged that as Speaker she would give the Republicans rights they’ve denied the Democrats, like allowing them to introduce amendments to bills. But she may have trouble reining in the Democrats’ appetite for revenge. There’s already talk of multiple investigations and impeachment of the president.
“No, impeachment is off the table,” she says.
“And that’s a pledge?” Stahl asks.
“Well, it’s a pledge in the – yes, I mean, it’s a pledge. Of course it is. It is a waste of time,” she replies.
“Wouldn’t they just love it, if we came in and our record as Democrats coming forth in 12 years, is to talk about George Bush and Dick Cheney? This election is about them. This is a referendum on them,” Pelosi says. “Making them lame ducks is good enough for me.”
It would have been better if she said something like:
Well, there hasn’t been sufficient investigation to even push for impeachment yet, but as Speaker, I will make sure that the House of Representatives fulfills it’s constitutional duty to provide oversight, to follow necessary investigations where they lead. We WILL return the voice of the people, disgusted with the waste and lack of accountability, to the Capitol.
If you need some help with your speeches Ms. Pelosi, drop a comment below, would you please?
Sadly, though, she didn’t do that. She won’t do that. Democrats running all over this country, when asked about the possibility of Pelosi rising to speaker, spew Republican talking points, reinforcing the right’s defining of the national debate. With her statement on 60 Minutes, Pelosi just rewarded that kind of behavior, and has herself REINFORCED THE REPUBLICAN DEFINITION of what is important in this country. Many argue that this is smart tactics, but all it does is reinforce the very thing that has moved this country steadily to the right for over thirty years … Democrats are weak and stand for nothing. Charles Pierce chimes in:
Impeachment should never be the first club out of the bag, god knows, and it shouldn’t be swung around for political purposes. (Ann Coulter, you’ll be amazed to learn, is wrong about that.) However, if a new Democratic majority doesn’t vigorously revive the oversight function of the Congress, and if it doesn’t do so regardless of where the investigations may lead, then it will not deserve to survive the next election cycle. (My choice? Extended televised hearings into war-profiteering.) If it were up to me, I’d put an armed guard around every paper-shredder in the West Wing about 30 seconds after the polls closed on Nov. 7. I don’t think impeachment hearings are remotely close to a good idea right now — but there is absolutely no way anyone can say that in perpetuity, given what we know about this administration’s penchant for secrecy and chicanery. And, let us face facts. The president has admitted violating FISA, hanging his reasons on a very dubious interpretation of his constitutional functions.
The template, if there is one, is the way Speaker Tip O’Neill handled his fractious caucus as Watergate gathered steam. (You can read about it either in Jimmy Breslin’s How The Good Guys Finally Won, or in Jack Farrell’s definitive biography of O’Neill.) He hedged. He temporized. He cut premature resolutions — like Robert Drinan’s attempt to impeach Richard Nixon over the bombing of Cambodia — off at the pass. He chewed his cud and told people he really didn’t know how impeachment should be undertaken. But he never, ever, took any option off the table.
What they DID do back then is let the attack dogs on the left run, do their thing, building the case, gaining momentum. This will not happen with Pelosi as Speaker, IF she becomes Speaker. The chances of a run from the right to prevent her from becoming third in line to the Presidency are high, and even if it fails she has made it clear she will capitulate to the center-right in the party, a number which may increase thanks to the zeal that Rep. Emmanuel has for recruiting former Republicans and warhawks.
The Democratic leadership, which Pelosi may, or may not, head come January, reinforces the rightwing, pro-corporate, pro-war Republican narrative at every turn, a problem that is reinforced by their subsidiary blogs:
Smith doesn’t come right out and say it, but there’s a name for a political ideology based on a projected, utopian past that can only be reacquired through political acts whereby the cultural radicals are ousted and an imaginary old order restored: conservative.
Kos and his followers imagine themselves bolsheviks of Democratic liberalism, but their political ideology, such as it is, is deeply conservative. It serves up a unidentifiable, unspecified time of general well-being and social harmony, a status quo in which the only change that occured was “progress” in an exceedingly vague sense of a general improvement to the social and economic wellbeing of the society as a whole. It locates the rupture with that vision in certain political triumphs of its opponents, whom it accuses of revolutionarism. It dedicates its political actions to the recapture of such a past, which was taken away, and which must now be taken back. Things were better before, and once we go back, they’ll be better in the future again.
In that confusion of verb tenses you find the abject failure of the dreaming insurgents of the Democratic party.
Pelosi has made it clear that she is part of the problem. She has made it clear that she will hamstring any true liberal who becomes a committee chairperson. She winces and ducks before the right even throws a punch, keeping her left hand carefully tied behind her back. Given the current state of politics in this country, one should be under no illusions that lefties will roar to power and bring about utopia, but with the center-right party completely freezing them out, the Donks are left with no way to fight. Hell, as anybody who’s boxed knows, or even anybody who’s played Rock’em Sock’em Robots knows, you have to jab with the left to set up the undercut or overhand from the right. A healthy political party that actually fought for something, believed in something, wanted to be more than a rubber stamp, would realize and use this simple fact of conflict. It’s not enough to float like a butterfly, not if you’re not willing to sting like a bee, and it’s only outraged lefties like Conyers and Waxman who have the stingers and are willing to use them. Ms. Pelosi has made it clear that she will keep them locked away and unable to fight.
Lefties, leftists, labor activists, GBLT fighters, feminists, humanists, peace activists … the Democratic Party is not on your side. They take you for granted. We hear over and over again that Pelosi is one of the most liberal members of Congress, but she abandons the left, denigrates the left, betrays the left. It’s time, PAST time, to walk away. Be willing to vote for a third party if you can, or leave the Dem line blank, if you’re confronted in the voting booth with a former Republican, a crypto-Republican or a wimpy status-quo worshipping centrist, then WALK AWAY. It’s time to face facts … the center-right of the party is driving because they did did just that, the Reagan Republicans, the Dixiecrats … you know, the Blue Dog Dempublicans. They stayed home or abandoned the Party and McGovern and backed George Wallace. They backed Ronald Reagan. They backed George HW Bush. They hooted with delight when Clinton betrayed the party’s constituents and helped to expand the police state and wage war. They did the very thing they scream at you that you shouldn’t do. When their racism, their jingoism, their bloodlust, their greed and selfishness and worship of the growing power of the Corporation wasn’t kowtowed to, they bolted.
FAR past time to return the favor, to work locally and build from the bottom. Yes, support the few left in the party who share your values, but quit enabling the descendents of Scoop Jackson and their psuedo-liberal lapdogs like Pelosi. NEITHER party is willing to do what may be one of the most important functions of Congress:
Article I, Section 8, US Constitution
The Powers of Congress include:
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
No, neither party, especially when it is US practicing piracies and felonies, US committing offenses against the law of nations. They enabled Bush, they enabled Clinton, they enabled Bush 41, they enabled Reagan and Nixon and Johnson. Decades of bloody imperial wars, and nearly our entire political establishment feast on the blood and carnage, cheering through their blood-encrusted mouths. Fear, greed and envy are the tools of our politicians. The brief victories in our history where we did actually expand justice for humanity are flickering glimmers spread out widely between broad periods of darkness, and the current leadership of the Democratic Party is part of the problem. Don’t capitulate lefties if your opposition starts to sting. Simple creatures like Vichy Dems only learn when they get burned … to back off right when the heat becomes uncomfortable only gives them quarter to wave you off after they’ve won. BE WILLING TO LET THEM LOSE. Better to build local movements, foster community-tied leaders who can offer real alternatives when the top-heavy indebted mess in Washington comes crashing down. Quit compromising yourselves, quit accepting their cash and access in return for shutting your mouths.
Ms. Pelosi has made it clear that she’s not a fighter, that she’s a coward who cares nothing for her constituents’ beliefs … no, she cares about what REPUBLICAN constituents, and the chattering class in DC, want. More of the same, only done “better” somehow. The endless fight for the “center” continues, while more and more Americans sink beneath the waves of a storm of rising corporate profits, as the bloodshed continues and the narrow constituency of comfortable suburbia and the rich are coddled.
Walk away … she’s just going to hit the canvas anyway. Walk away, and start working to build real fighters, new fighters, PEOPLE’S fighters.
More of the same for the leaders afraid to lead.
Yep, lie about an oval office blowjob and get impeached. Lie about WMDs to further an illegal war for oil where thousands die, don’t get impeached.
One would have hoped that she would have been better prepared for such a question, even if she had to lie.
she diffuses the Republican talking point for the next two weeks: “Elect Democrats and they’ll polarize the country with impeachment hearings, weakening us at a time of war.”
And nothing stopping her from coming out next year when Conyers is chairing the House Judiciary investigations and saying, “Last October, I said that impeachment was off the table…but the evidence has now shown that it must be placed back on.” Sure, she’ll get lambasted by the ultra-right as a flip-flopper, but she’ll have the American people on her side once they see the depth of this misAdministration’s criminality…
She might have said that impeachment of the President is off the table, but she did not take the impeachment of anyone else off the table.
Being a fighter for impeachment only makes sense prior to an election only if that 51% who say they are for impeaching the Bush are distributed so as to guarantee that that issue will result in House seat pickups. That of course is not the case. There are lots of folks who will support Democrats to change direction but they don’t want those changes hamstrung by lengthy impeachment proceedings. This is a public concession to that reality.
And she is right about Bush as a lame duck. Bush probably will not seek any other public service job in his life. Presidential retirement benefits are too cushy. If impeachment could strip him of those benefits, it might make sense to be fixated on Bush himself.
But my sense is that we should be focusing on the junior members of this administration who participated in the abuses of power and who might come back in a future administration. Gonzales, for example. Yoo briefly held an appointment, so Yoo as well. Feith, and company, Perle, Wolfowitz, Chertoff. Brownie has resigned but he can still be impeached. Scott McClellan, Ari Fleischer, Elizabeth Cheney, John Bolton…Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, Justice Kennedy for Bush v. Gore. The list goes on.
And before there are impeachments, there are investigations. Say what she wants, Pelosi is not going to shut down John Conyers or Henry Waxman.
Actually, when you think about it, investigations may be more useful than impeachment in the long run. Investigations can last well into the 2008 election run, exposing the corruption of far more than just the folks currently in the White House. How many of the rumored Republican “front-runners” can come out with completely clean hands?
And by (perhaps temporarily) taking impeachment off the table, she also shuts up the right-wingers who would say, “Oh, she just wants to be the President — do you want a President Pelosi?”
I’d prefer to see Brown as a witness, rather than an impeachment defendant; he’s pissed enough that he could probably spill some real good dirt in exchange for some immunity. Most of the rest of your list is great — I’d put Rummy on top, followed by Wolfie. And lets not forget Condi…her actions before 9/11 have got to be some sort of criminal negligence…
Could give some of the canaries immunity from criminal prosecution without giving immunity (actually is only House decision not to impeach) from impeachment.
Or vice versa for that matter.
What is the point of trying to impeach Bush. He’s only going to be around for two more years and who would replace him, Cheney? It would far more productive to focus on their own agenda and having a new Truman Committee to investigate the massive fraud and corruption involved with this war.
I think it would be far better to have him standing in front of a podium every so often having to comment on another crony of his getting frog-marched off to prison. Impeaching him would only cause another giant partisan war that would waste a ton of time and political capital.
Nixon was about to be impeached when he had only two years left. (He resigned to prevent his own impeachment.)
The point of this shouldn’t EVER be political. The point of impeachment is the message that even the President is accountable – that no one is above the law. I can’t think of anything more important to this country that to have impeachment proceedings because they should be a strong disincentive to anyone doing anything like that again.
If you don’t punish someone for committing a crime, you’re legalizing the crime. All in favor of legalizing Bush’s behavior raise their hands.
<looking left and right>
Yeah. Didn’t think so.
exactly …
of course, the ruling class in this country, ESPECIALLY the politicians, isn’t the least bit interested in someone being held accountable, unless they’re poor or brown or outspoken. After all, hold this criminal accountable, and you might rouse the people … and then they might think they should turn their ire on the corporate criminals who write the party their big juicy contribution checks.
It doesn’t look like Bill Clinton’s impeachment sent much of a message to Mr. Bush though, did it? Ultimately, Bush or his successor will “legalize” his behaviour by granting him a pardon on the way out the door. Justice isn’t particularly going to be served by impeaching him because he’d just go back to Crawford and sit on his millions. If anything, impeaching him would make him a martyr to his wingnut base.
I would love to see Bush punished, but he won’t be sent to prison or put on trial in the Hague, so what difference is impeachment going to make? Wouldn’t it be better to spend the next couple of years trying to advance progressive causes instead of tied up in an intense partisan battle? The Democrats won’t have the numbers to get it done anyways, so what a waste of time.
wow, then why have gov’t at all? Why have hearings? Why drag rich, connected men before grand juries? After all, they will probably get off. You’re saying that the rule of law means nothing, that it’s okay for the political elite in this country to ignore it, destroy it, pretend it doesn’t matter.
We’re in this mess because the Dem leadership let go on Iran/Contra. So many of the criminals destroying this country now were up to their eyeballs in that Constitutional crisis, and they paid NOTHING for their crimes. “What good would it do … we need the Republicans to work with us to destroy welfare “as we know it”, expand the police state and destroy civil liberties,” thought the Clintonistas and their buddies in the Congressional leadership, and they looked away from a major subversion of the rule of law. Now, you think it utilitarian to do it again …
… open your eyes.
In my first post, I said
I just think that exposing the corruption of the whole Republican machine is far more important than impaching Bush personally. I would think that a Bush impeachment would probably turn into a giant gong show and not accomplish as much as a commission investigating, as one example, war profiteering and corruption in the military-industrial complex.
I totally agree that people need to pay for what this administration has done. But I think that we both know that there is a better chance of Iraqi’s showering US troops in flowers and chocolate than there is of George W. Bush being punished in a meaningful way. By meaningful, I mean serving a life sentence in federal prison and wearing an orange jumpsuit every day. As it stands, there is no chance of him successfully being impeached. Like I said earlier, I’d LOVE to him really be punished, but the reality of the situation is that the only jury that will be able to pass judgement on him will be generations of American historians.
but my whole point is that you DON’T PROMISE NOT TO DO IT. It says at the outset that you don’t think “high crimes” have been committed.
Man, this isn’t FOOTBALL. This is people’s lives, the continuation of our system of gov’t, and the parsing of big questions into ‘oh well, we can’t WIN’ is just pathetic.
Why bother having the investigations if you announce at the outset that the guy ultimately responsible can’t be, won’t be punished?
I guess we interpreted her meaning differently. I took it more as an admission that it was going to be a political non-starter. I had thought her thinking was more along the lines that she can say “we won’t impeach the President” and make it seem like she’s being conciliatory when she’s really just expressing the reality of the situation.
And I’m glad this isn’t football, I hate football.
Yeah, so much can be done for progressive causes at the state level when all of the funding from the feds has been cut!
Taking that to its logical extreme, why should I even bother voting for candidates who ignore my views?
Oh, gee, I must have forgot…disability rights? Wait until 2008! Then it will be 2010, 2012, and so on.
I’m not sure I see the connection, what is an impeachment bid going to do to restore funding to progressive causes at state level?
Progressive causes/programs can’t be implemented when the funding for them has been cut. We know the funding will not be re-instated, so vote the DINO’s out. More Greens (or Socialists) who will represent their constituents (in elected postions) will be listened to by the real Dems, such as Conyers, Waxman, Dingell, and so on. Look to histoy: Teddy Roosevelt (who first advocated Singel Payer Health Care in this country).
Then, there is also the Bull Moose/Progressive Party.
And real liberals will come out of this stronger and with more support!
In case you missed it, Clinton WASN’T impeached. And he deserved to be punished for lying under oath. But his lies didn’t kill 600,000 people. The punishment has to fit the crime to be effective.
What is the point of trying to impeach Bush.
One reason.
He’s only going to be around for two more years and who would replace him, Cheney?
Agnew resigned, and Ford was appointed VP and later became President, remember?
to hold the Regime ACCOUNTABLE for their war crimes.
Period.
exactly, and all of the other parsing of strategy and “what good would it do” from the party (and comments here) serve only to reward the Republicans for their crimes. The Clintonistas screwed us all when they didn’t go after the Republicans for Iran/Contra with knives drawn and retribution in their hearts. Accountability is essential. Ms. Pelosi has made it clear she has no interest in it.
A good book to read: By one of the people who impeached Nixon.
He LIED to Congress and to the Public to start a war.
Warrantless Wiretaps
Subverting Democracy
Failure to care for citizens
Abuse of Power
http://www.commondreams.org/view…s06/0112- 20.htm
The Impeachment of George W. Bush by Elizabeth Holtzman
“As awful as Watergate was, after the vote on impeachment and the resignation of President Nixon, the nation felt a huge sense of relief. Impeachment is a tortuous process, but now that President Bush has thrown down the gauntlet and virtually dared Congress to stop him from violating the law, nothing less is necessary to protect our constitutional system and preserve our democracy.” from above link
as someone said “tortuous process”? Then Bush should support it 🙂
Perhaps it’s just naive of me to ask this, but would the activating and bonding experience of, for example, local GOTV campaigns actually make it harder to build local movements after November? And is it that a Democratic victory would actually make it harder for local movements to influence policy? I don’t get it.
only if they remain independent of the national leadership, something that the elected leaders are very anxious to avoid.
If I believed that they’d allow the 50 state strategy to succeed, maybe I’d feel differently, but what I see is constant resistance to that strategy from the Congressional leadership, the DSCC & DCCC.
Today I sent Pelosi $101.01 contribution. It’s the home stretch in this election year and I suggest all progressives take a “byte” out of the Republicans and send money in “bits” (ones and zeros) to Democratic/liberal candidates and organizations they support.
No reason why “Bits & Bytes” can’t be our answer to the GOP’s 72-hour GOTV onslaught. Give last minute money to aid last minute pushes over the top for your favorite candidates and causes.