Dear Joe Klein,
This is in response to your challenge:
And so a challenge to those who slagged me in their comments. Can you honestly say the following:
Even though I disagree with this escalation, I am hoping that General Petraeus succeeds in calming down Baghdad.
Before I directly address your challenge I want to point out that you lied in your posting today. You said that you have opposed this war since 2002.
The fact that I’ve been opposed to the Iraq war ever since this 2002 article in Slate just makes it all the more aggravating.
First off, your Slate link is broken. But I want to draw your attention to comments you made in 2003, on the eve of the war. [Tip o’ the hat to Attaturk].
MR. KLEIN: …This is a really tough decision. War may well be the right decision at this point. In fact, I think it–it’s–it–it probably is.
RUSSERT: Now that’s twice you’ve said that: ‘It’s the right war.’ You believe it’s the wrong time. Why do you think it’s the right war?
Mr. KLEIN: Because sooner or later, this guy has to be taken out. Saddam has–Saddam Hussein has to be taken out.
Mr. Klein, I acknowledge that you made those remarks while discussing your misgivings and doubts. But, when you conclude that the war is the right decision then you are not an opponent of the war. And, therefore, your post today is dishonest and you are a liar.
Now, let me address your challenge. I am a great admirer of General Petraeus. I have a high regard for his competence and his abilities. I do not hope that he fails in his mission of stabilizing Baghdad. But you are asking the wrong question. Think about it like this. Imagine you are at a Georgetown cocktail frankfurter party. Maybe it’s at Sally Quinn’s house. And imagine that Bill Bennett knocks back eight scotch and sodas as he regales you with talk of his recent hot streak at the Atlantic City poker tables. And now imagine that Bill Bennett, ruddy and ribald, stumbles to his car and turns the ignition. Here’s my question? Do you really want Bill Bennett to wrap his Jaguar around a telephone pole and die?
As for me, it’s easy–I’ll be rooting for Bill Bennett’s success in getting home safely because, in spite of the overpowering arrogance and stupidity that led to his decision to drive, we owe some peace and stability to the Washingtonians and the region. For the record, I’ll be outraged that Bennett is ignoring the law and the reality on the ground in DC. I’ll think he is putting more young American lives at risk. I am fairly certain that Bennett will wallow amongst our worst pundits for getting into this mess. But I hope events prove me wrong. I don’t even care if Bennett thinks he deserves credit for the “victory” and smirks at the cops. I just don’t want him to die.
Mr. Klein, do you understand this analogy?
Friends do not let friends drive drunk. In the case of George W. Bush and the neo-conservatives, they not only are insisting on driving intoxicated, they won’t let us out of the car and they respond to all requests to slow down by stomping on the accelerator. In this situation the only rational thing to do is to wait for them to come to a halt at a stop sign (if they are sober enough to avoid running it) and smack them in the head with a sock full of pennies. We need to take away the car keys, Mr. Klein.
You can call me an “illiberal leftist and reactionary progressive”, you can say my “naivete on national security–and the left wing tendency to assume every U.S. military action abroad is criminal–just aren’t very helpful electorally.” You can talk all the shit you want. But you are still letting your friends drive drunk and criticizing anyone that wants to do something about it. You are also a liar. Now fix your link.
Best Regards,
BooMan
How fitting that the link to his supposed opposition to the war comes up “file not found”.
Illiberal leftist? This must be the new jargon. Or he must be a reader of Wired Magazine’s wired, tired, expired section.
orange.
laughing my ass off. Joe Klein has now fixed his link.
Or an intern at TIME who monitors RSS feeds for Klein has fixed the link. Also I love the ability to post comments, or should I say, submit proposed comments, as they won’t be posted until, and if, Klein approves them. (See the statement above the Post a Comment box.) It’s very difficult for the MSM to accept free speech.
To show how the free speech thing is done on a real blog, Time can look right here at the Booman Tribune. I’m glad that Booman took up Klein’s challenge. I read Booman Tribune every day, largely to see what he, as well as the other writers here, has to say. But this time I think Booman has chosen a faulty rhetorical strategy to answer Klein. The analogy with Bennett is overly long and forced. The point gets lost and allows the introduction of extraneous issues to enter the debate (Bennett’s personality, the Georgetown party elite, drunk driving, Bush’s alcoholism).
The analogy also minimizes the situation in Iraq. When the consequences of a situation are as serious and deadly as the daily reality in Iraq, comparing them to cocktail party incidents opens the writer and his point to criticism that allows his point to be ignored. A direct response would be more effective rhetorically, as the tone would fit the topic. Matching Klein’s tone only plays into his hands.
Actually, I’d say the extraneous stuff is why the analogy hits home. It is what gives the analogy bite. Thisis not stooping to the same level. This is conteptuously dissmissing as irrelevent those who have stooped to that level.
If this thread is any indication, Booman’s comment plays here and my criticism is way off-base. My concern is how will the rhetoric play to those not in the choir? If the intention was to reply to Klein’s assertion that the Left is hoping that General Petraeus fails, I’m not sure this would do it.
a fair segment of the population will not be swayed off their opinion by any rational counter-argument. I suspect by now the old “rooting to fail” strawman is considered claptrap by every fair-minded American. It should be … they’ve had nearly four years of practice.
This is a perfect example of why the pundit class is so insulated from reality: if they ever stepped out of their insulation, someone with quicker wits and a low tolerance for horseshit would hand them their intestines in a bucket. đŸ˜‰
*THE* best post I’ve read on the subject …. EVER!!!
(sockful of pennies . heh!)
your analogy is dead(no pun intended, sorry)on. We need more calling outs of these liars. Keep up the great work.
Way too good. Thanks Booman.
He was the guy who was behind the cowardly “anonymous” book Primary Colors, which was sold to the public as a thinly-disguised exposé of Bill Clinton but which was really about pushing a bunch of bullshit generated by the Arkansas GOP, namely the “Clinton fathered a kid by a black hooker” lie.
The truth is here: http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/2007/01/joe-klein-lying-scumbag.html
with this posting your really spoke for all of us. When I marched against the war it wasn’t because I was rooting for American “failure.” I protested because I knew a war of choice with Iraq was strategically stupid and morally wrong. We were right and the Joe Kleins of the world have blood on their hands. This insipid creature even supported nuking Iran on ABC’s This Week Sunday news program several months ago. Anyone who could support that must be on crack.
image is perfect! especially love the sock full of pennies! and “stomp on the accelerator” – exactly what it feels like!
I love the “pennies” also, but you might have included the “airbag” at the wheel.
Very good riposte.
Great post my friend. “Liar” is a word that needs to be used more often when describing charlatans like Joke Line.
Brilliant analogy – perhaps the only one he could understand.
Sock full of pennies got me too.
Before I directly comment on the challenge lain at the feet of Mr. Klein by this diary, I want to point out there’s a little too much attention paid to the professional puditry. They say what they think will keep the paychecks rolling in.
First off, your analogy is is dead-on. But I want to draw your attention to the brutal slapdown you delivered to the mewling revisionist, in the very next paragraph. [Tip o’ the hat to BooMan].
Consider Mr. Klein served.
Please have a cold one for me tonight if you are going to DL in Philly. I will have one here at our DL in Seattle in honor of your smackdown. Bring it on!
Welcome to all who linked here from Crooks and Liars.
And congratulations Booman on the “smackdown” recognition.