So, recently scribe gifted us with a wonderful diary on swearing, in a funny but soulful Dave Sedaris sort of style. Soj then added some nerdy comments on that diary that got me, a fellow nerd, thinking about the nerdy historical/sociological aspects of swearing. These are my 1.95 cents (it’s late and I have a big day tomorrow, so I’ll have to owe you the $0,05)
Soj says that the hangups with swearing in english go back to the days of Oliver Cromwell, when “proper” language became a national obsesion in Britain and that was carried to the US. He also says most other countries don’t have as much hangups as the US.
I think the matter is a bit more complicated. For example, spaniards swear quite heavily (spanish television and movies included). But it’s not because Spain was, historically, such a free, unrepressed country where language was free, but because of the opposite.
During the days of Francisco Franco (who, if I remember correctly, Nixon lauded as a worthy and brave ally) language was as repressed as everything else. In the Spain of Franco, you could go to jail for holding hands in public. Not only was swearing off the table, but any language other than Spanish was forbidden to spaniards.
The region around the capital city of Madrid is where Spanish is from. Other regions of spain, like Catalunya (catalan) or the Basque region (euskera), have their own native toungues and have a distinct culture from the rest of Spain, as well as a desire to be a country of their own. At the same time that Franco violently repressed the urge to secede he violently repressed euskera and catalan. In Catalunya not only could you not speak catalan, you could go to jail for whistling a song with catalan lyrics.
When Franco finally kicked the bucket, all the sexual and linguistical repression in Spain burst like a dam (damn?). Here are a few common swear phrases from Spain with their literal translation:
Me cago en ti: I shit on you
Me cago en tu puta madre: I shit on your whore of a mother
Me cagio en el coño de tu puta madre: I shit on your whore of a mother’s cunt.
Me cago en la hostia: I shit on the communion wafer
Me cago en Dios : I shit on God.
If you are REALLY pissed:
Me cago en Dios, en la hostia, en tí y en el coño de la puta madre que te parió. (God, wafer, you, the cunt of the mother that gave birth to you)
My feeling is, spaniards wouldn’t swear so much if they hadn’t been as repressed historically (also, this is the country that spawned the counter-reformation and gave rebirth to the inquisition). Likewise, a person who was sexually repressed as a youth is likely to become sexually obssessed (or cold) as an adult, whereas a person who was not will have a healthy attitude towards sex. So swearing, specially swearing a lot, is not necessarily a sign of honesty nor of being a free spirit.
The process that all european countries went through, from being a loose collection of feudal states to becoming a single nation state always involved the unification, and thus repression, of language. Every fiefdom had a local dialect, that had to conform to the new standard dialect of the nation. So the idea of a “proper” french, english, spanish, italian, must have come at roughly the same time for all those countries. There is politics in language; Webster’s dictionary, which changed colour into color, was a US nationalist statement.
So those are my very nerdy 1.95 cents. I guess what I’m saying is that the issue of language is always political and historical, and therefore complicated.
I find the image appealing
THAT… was my grandma’s favorite, and the one that got me kicked out of preschool! LOL!
‘cheese on rye’ was very popular among the kids. As one of the few Jews in a predominantly Catholic neighborhood, I think I was 6 or 7 before I got it.
I like Jesus H. Christ in a sidecar (drinking tequila).
Variations: in a horse-driven sidecar, a chariot-driven sidecar, a jumped-up sidecar, and a steam-powered sidecar.
Most commonly heard here, though: Holy Fuck!
I hadn’t heard about all that shitting. The way it was described to me (if recollection serves accurately) was hija de la gran puta. But I like yours better.
really. Check out the boingboing archive for details…
Why is ‘cunt’ a masculine word?
Don’t feel bad, the slang in Spanish for “dick” is grammatically female π
It sounds weird to us native English speakers but grammatical gender has absolutely nothing to do with biological gender. A man’s tie is female, a woman’s dress is male, etc.
Pax
Thanks soj,
Actually, I am not a native English speaker. In my mother tongue, we also conjugate nouns (masculine, feminine and neutral). When thinking of our equivalent four letter words, the sex of the body parts tend to follow the sex of the owner.
Well for better or for worse I am a native English speaker but yeah, like ur language (German?) there are many others with lots of different grammatical genders, Romanian being my most fluent in terms of having more than two.
There is a Spanish slang word for women’s genitalia that is feminine – it’s the female version of the common word for “fox”. Or maybe I’m wrong, but I know that’s a bad one.
Either way, languages are crazy!
Pax
Oh I almost forgot – when u say conjugating nouns are you talking about the nominative, accusative cases etc? Believe it or not, that WAS a part of the English language during it’s first “trimester” or back when it was more closely related to Norwegian/Norse/German. I know for a fact Icelandic still retains these cases.
Romanian as well has a simplified version of six different “cases” for nouns but thankfully it’s a lot easier than the (classical) Latin it superceded.
All I know is my father, who spoke English all his entire life, when he first began learning Spanish a couple years ago, different nouns having “genders” just blew his mind π
Pax
I still have a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the idea that German nouns have gender, often wildly disconnected from the objects they represent. So you have “die Mädel,” the (she) maiden, but the dimunitive is “das Mädchen,” the (neuter) girl, because “-chen” is always neutral. The spoon is a he, the fork is a she and the knife is an it (der Löffel, die Gabel, das Messer). A mouse is “die Maus” (feminine), even the other day when I was using it to refer to Mickey Mouse (presumably masculine).
And don’t even get me started on keeping the nominative, accusative and dative versions of articles straight. I try my best to make sure gender and case all match up but it’s never long before I decide to give up and just go back to Esperanto, which only adds a suffix for the accusative. But then there’s this whole long-running flame war over using past vs. present participles . . .
Sweet… I might be wrong but i think we got some philology lovers on this website!
Pax
and you wonder why I call us nerds…
Penis:
La verga
La pinga
El pipí
El capullo
Vagina:
La cuca
El coño
El conejo (the rabbit)
El peluche (the stuffed animal)
In very crass contexts, sex is referred to as “pegarle al peluche”
Awesome… I always heard “echar el polvo” but that’s not exactly vulgar. what about the term “Polla” ?
Pax
La polla.. right; I think that’s only in Spain. In Peru, you have “el pincho” which, in Colombia, means a kebab.
“El polvo” is very universal and not really vulgar. I don’t think there are any spanish words for fucking that are true swear words.
You might enjoy this magazine article I wrote, but some of the references are very “colombian”:
http://www.soho.com.co/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=1661
I dont know if I’m a nerd jejeje but perhaps sometimes I guess I am.
Just wanted to point out that I was referring to Spanish as it is spoken as a whole, even in countries which were not Spain and not under Franco’s dictatorship such as in Costa Rica. Certainly Franco had a gigantic role in the suppression of speech in Spain however.
All the lovely Spanish curses involving la “hostia” (communion wafer) and monks farting and all of that, those are hundreds of years old. I used to own (and tragically) lost a wonderful book that had originally been compiled a few hundred years ago, a collection of Spanish idioms and phrases and sayings.
I believe Don Quijote is replete with many of these curse or swears involving religious symbols or people.
But yah, I’m glad to see some backup from a native that in some other countries outside the USA, plenty of people “swear” including women and it has nowhere near the “vulgarity” or “shocking” aspect that it does in the United States π
On an unrelated note, it’s worth mentioning that some countries (esp. France and Spain) have established OFFICIAL bodies which sanction what is and what is not proper use and forms of a particular language. England certainly tried their best to establish one (with much help from Gulliver’s Travel author Jonathan Swift among others) but failed.
Countries like Italy and Portugal meanwhile do it more the English way in wherein there is no ultimate authority and the language therefore tends to be a lot more fluid and evolves a lot more quickly. Despite a common perception, there is actually no one who determines what is or what is not the “Queen’s English” other than the Queen herself, through public speeches and discourses.
Pax