Really, I do.
But since I didn’t participate in the big meta meltdown over the last few days, I’m only learning now from scribes’s lament that some long established members of this community have said they were planning to leave. One of them is Supersoling, who I met at the the September 24, 2005 antiwar march in DC. We were the two Booman attendees who brought American flags to that rally, so that gave us a connection (though he was better prepared than I — he at least had a flagpole — my son and I had to improvise with the help of some other bloggers to find cardboard tubing and tape to fashion makeshift poles on the fly before the march began).
I can’t say I know him well. I don’t really know his life story, but having looked into his eyes, and spoken to him briefly, and read his diaries here at Booman Tribune, I see a man who had been deeply scarred by life, but who has come back from those experiences and been re-energized and recommitted to fighting the good fight against the multiple tyrannies we face in this country.
The tyranny of King George, sure, but also the tyranny of the lapdog media which has enabled these monstrous wars and mismanagement of the public trust by Republicans, the tyranny of pseudo-patriotism on the right which is based on hatred, prejudice and fear, and which lashes out to demonize and marginalize true patriotic voices, and the tyranny of cowardice, despair and apathy which reigns over so many of our fellow Americans, including sadly, many Democrats.
He is one of the best advocates for progressive values at Booman Tribune, and one of the strongest voices against the madness that has enveloped our country. I am proud to call him my friend.
Alohaleezy, I know less well, because we have never met face to face, though I have seen the pictures she has posted of herself here, and read her diaries. Most of all, however, I have taken encouragement from her many comments to my front page stories and also in my diaries here before I was given the opportunity by Booman and Susanhu to take up this valuable blogospheric real estate to blather about my particular obsessions and petty grievances.
Leezy has always been someone who offered me support for whatever I wrote here, and I am not the sole beneficiary of her inspiration. Many other writers have been blessed by her comments in the threads to their diaries. If one can claim to divine a person’s soul through mere words alone, than she has a great big one, large enough to encompass this entire community with her compassion, empathy and enthusiasm for what we do, and for the causes we support.
I do not understand why these good people feel they must leave this community, if indeed that is what they both plan to do. It isn’t really important that I know why. Because what I am about to say, I hope, will override whatever reason may exist in their minds for such a sudden and unexpected departure.
I would ask, no beg, both Supersoling and Alohaleezy to stay and continue to remain a part of this community. I need their support, their passion and their fearlessness, and you do to, whoever you may be who is reading this right now. I don’t care what disagreements may have surfaced, or harsh words exchanged, or ill will created, because I believe with all my heart that Booman Tribune, this online community of like-minded souls is, in a very real sense, a family. All families have their disputes, their falling-outs, their grudges and their angry words which the minute they are uttered the speakers wish they could stuff them back inside themselves and make time reverse itself.
Yet good families persevere, despite these many difficulties and misunderstandings, because they love one another. I don’t mean to suggest that we here at BT are a traditional family by any means, but in so many respects we function as one, even though most of us will never meet anywhere outside the screens of our computers. And yes, I love the people who are brave enough and passionate enough and caring enough to come here and share a little bit of their souls with each other every day. And that means I love you, Supersoling and Alohaleezy.
And so as a brother, and if you are truly planning to take leave of this place, I ask you both to reconsider that decision. Do not become prodigals. Do not let hasty words or slights become the wounds that turn you away from the many here who rely upon your spirit and your strengths.
I’m a big believer in the power of forgiveness. So please, forgive those with whom you have crossed verbal swords, just as I would ask your antagonists (and I do not know who those could be, nor do I need to know) to forgive you also. If we are progressives in the true sense of that word, than we must believe in the power of forgiveness and of redemption.
Please. Stay.
With the greatest sincerity,
Steven D
I agree one thousand per cent!
As Kidspeak says (through Molly Ivins) We better have fun here.
It’s a lot better than fighting with one another, yes?
and double it.
I fully agree.
Remember that it was a full moon during the big uproar. During a full moon, emotions run high and weird things are said and done. Best to let things rest for a while and then work at making amends.
It occurs to me that there needs to be some kind of apology/hatchetburying process as a complement to the trollrating/punishing/banning process. The trollrating/banning process works very well for getting rid of trolls, but not well at modifying the behavior of well-meaning people, and it’s downright destructive of community if there isn’t a complementary process for opening dialogue and moderating differences.
Agree wholeheartedly.
If I want to talk to myself, I will go into a sound-proof closet.
If I want to talk to an immovable wall, I will go to a right-wing blog site.
However if I want to talk to potential progressive thinkers in an atmosphere without forced group-think (forced by troll ratings and banning), then I need a place like this! Now there may be other such places, but people will still be people! Unless you want that closet scenario, in which case you need a tape recorder and not a blog, you will need to deal with some dissent no matter where you go!
I have not idea what problem this diary is referring to, but but I stand by my above logic either way!
I don’t know the basis of the conflict either, only that I don’t wish people to leave this community over a flame war that got out of hand.
Beautiful heartfelt words, Steven. I share your feelings for Super and Leezy, and wish there were a way for them to feel they could stay here with us.
But as in any family, members can only thrive if they know that no matter what discord there may be, that underneath it, they solid awareness that they are truly important to that family, truly valued and a part of an intact “whole”. That is the primary job of any parent.
Any anyone who chooses to set up and run an online “community type” blog, like it or not, sort of inherits that kind of role, for it’s members. It just plain goes with the territory, in my personal observations.
Someone has to keep the peace. Someone has to set some rules. And someone, ultimately has to make final decisions that affect everyone. It is one hell of a responsibility, an immensely difficult task to shoulder. (No one could pay me enough to take it on!) I have yet to observe any online community leader who has mastered it and I have some serious doubts that is is possible to do at all, in this limited medium.
So these kinds of community melt downs just keep on happening, and if we’ve become a part of a place like this , it hurts like hell to lose each other. Some are in a place where they are strong enough to forgive and forget, and some are still hurting too badly, or are still too angry to be able to do that, and need to leave in order to take good care of their own mental health. In any case, it’s a matter of individual choices on everyones part, those who leave and those who don’t. I don’t know how else to handle that other than honoring everyones choice, like it or not.
And tend to making my own, given whatever the circumstances may be. I for one, have decided not to decide at all, for now, about my own future involvement here: things still feel “in motion” to me, and outcomes are not clear, so will wait and see and participate as is comfortable (and hopefully constructive), in the meantime. (And you are a fair sized part of the reason why I hang out here, fella!) Thanks for this diary.
I’m tracking with you on this.
thank you very much for such high praise. I doubt that I am worthy of it but you brought tears to my eyes nontheless.
I wrote Martin the following email this morning:
“Please do whatever you need to do to illiminate me from the site. I do not want my name associated with it in anyway shape or form. I thought I would sleep on it and see what or if anything had been said this morning. You have only disappointed me more.
I have heard you say you have to delte one diary at a time. Aren’t you glad I did not write very many? Good luck Martin.
Lee”
What Scribe just wrote says 1000 times better what I could express what I am feeling. It isn’t just this latest dustup quite frankly. I need to find a place that I can do what I originally thought this place was about. Frogmarching the criminals out of the WHite House and taking our country back. I may be a dreamer, as Lennon would say, but I am not the only one.
Keep up the fabulous writing Steven and I will continue to read what you post over at Dkos. To all the rest of you lovely people, thanks for sharing a part of yourselves with me. Until we meet again…be well. Let there be peace and let it begin with me.
Thanks for sleeping on it, Leezy. I fully honor and understand your decision. I promise to try not to get mad at you for making this poor ol technoodunce-hen hobble all over the internet trying to keep track of you, along with my other missing chicks. But you will not easily get away from me. In the words of another favorite of mine, “BET ON IT!”)
I would like to sugggest that the outgoing members can meet with their friends on Village Blue, it is always there for a place to go, and for any members that need a bit of time away from the hubhub.
I respect your decision, but I still hope you change your mind at some point.
I will miss you greatly.
In spite of the fact that you disparaged those of us who frequent the cafe, and in spite of the fact that I very much took that to heart, I wish you well. (even though I threatened to send you an email with an animal picture in it every day until I die)
I’m not really sure why you’re leaving or where you’ll be able to kill those dragons single-handedly, but I do know that personally I find strength and hope among friends, and you do have friends here. Turning your back on us now seems so… wasteful. Be well.
Ordinarily, I would suggest that you have a nice glass of white port. Unfortunately, I drank it all myself and, alas, the bottle is empty. Be well.
What has happened? What has pissed you off Leezy?
Steven: I have recently been asked to come back to work on a temporary basis for a couple of months. My daily schedule is all out of wack, and I have apparently missed a big Brew-Ha here. Like you I have been inspired and supported by both Super and Leezy when I have read their posts and comments and occasionally posted a comment myself that made some sense. In my view, they and a handful of others like yourself, are the backbone of this site. I miss Boston Joe, Susan Hu, Catnip, Ductape Fatwa and some others like Dammit Janet and Military Tracy that I do not find around the pond anymore. Like you, I hope that Super and Leezy will find a way to continue to be dwellers here. We need each other, it’s as simple as that, I think.
Well, I’m glad you’re working. Right now this is all the work I’ve got.
And I missed the brouhaha too, but out of choice. Long ago, when I first started posting online I would get involved in flame wars, and each time I did, it became too emotionally draining. It was only after I realized that I was the one investing that anger and outrage over words on a screen that I realized I didn’t have to react that way. I could ignore people, or respond but in a respectful manner. Most times I’m able to do that now, and it has been a boon to my mental health, believe me.
Besides, all things considered, I’ve got bigger things to worry myself over these days if you know what I mean. So if I’m going to put some emotion out there in comment threads, I want to make it a positive one if I can.
have supported my diaries about New Orleans. I don’t know you, but I thank you.
I can’t begin to understand the flame wars that have been occurring here on BT. I really don’t know what is involved, except for the fact that I would want my anonymity to be respected. Then I backed off because it would take too much time out of my day to even referee, much less get involved.
But I do think that some time-outs, rather than outright leaving, is called for.
The harsh thing about blogging and e-mailing is that we don’t see the faces in front of the screens. If we were sitting around in someone’s living room or kitchen and talking, it would be a different thing entirely. We don’t see each other’s mannerisms, expressions, or tones of voice.
The result is that sometimes we do feel dismissal from this rather ‘cold’ source of information from people that we don’t even know or have never met…except perhaps, during demonstrations.
I know for sure that we all believe deeply in our values and in what we profess as progressives and liberals. I know that anything that impinges on those values or even patience makes us, especially on blogs, come out swinging, if not blasting.
It doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t invite Boo over to my home after his take on Biden’s backhanded diss of Obama. I still think that he should step back and take a long look and really weigh what it all does mean…especially how he in particular sees black people. But it doesn’t preclude me shutting the door on him.
I’m not expecting people to go all lovey-dovey on each other after this explosion. But I think that some apologies and agreements to disagree are warranted on all sides. It always is.
Well, I think you’re one helluva writer, and a very wise human being to boot. I’m very glad you are here.
I get mad the same as anyone else online. Sometimes, I just plain shut down for a few days and go on another blog, like Steve Gilliard’s for example.
Besides, I have my book.
Thanks for your good words, and I hope that this isn’t the equivalent of the pie controversy that caused everyone to split from Kos.
And I love those graphics lol!
“I still think that he should step back and take a long look and really weigh what it all does mean…”
I can’t even keep track of how many times I have been forced to reevalute my words, perceptions and actions that seemed like relatively harmless things to myself at the time.
Fortunately for myself, and most of the time, I have silently learned from others’ mistakes on the sidelines. Not always… But most of the time.
If you are talking about what Boo wrote the other day that sounded like the same sort of stuff Tweety was repeating on Hardball over Biden’s remarks… I kindof spotted that one coming as I read it. Though, I didn’t think a full blown war would arise out of it.
Man OH man! Supersoling AND Alohaleezy? I missed all of this. I am not sure what to say?
That is exactly what I was thinking about his whole debacle, blksista. What is sorely lacking here in cyber-space is EYE CONTACT and nuance. This dustup will blow over with time. We will all keep writing and thinking and reacting and over-reacting. But one thing is certain: We have to keep up the fight, bloody noses notwithstanding.
Geez, I’ve been totally sick for the past three days and finally found the strength to come back on line and what do I find? A miserable break-down that is entirely to reminiscent of our last miserable break-down.
Leezy, you know I care about you and from what I’ve seen so far this morning, I can understand your outrage. However, I, too, would really miss you if you were to leave forever.
Super, we’ve never met, but I feel like we have. You are awesome and I would also miss you a great deal.
I’m glad I missed out on this war. It would have only made me sicker.
Shoot, and I was hoping to catch the tail end of “Why the world won’t be the same without Molly Ivens” threads.
OK — WTF is going on here? Everytime I’m away for a few days it seems like I return to another subterranean war. If Supersoling and Alohaleezy are really going, I’ll miss their insight — they both often saved me the effort of posting because they got ahead of me with unimprovable contributions.
Which makes it even more disappointing if they are indeed involved in another silly spat and disappearance. I thought our side of things was in large measure about openness and communication. And yet we once again have the spectacle of underground murmuring of The Offense That Dare Not Speak Its Name, unspecified, that leads to splintering and walkouts.
What this behavior amounts to in the end, it seems to me, undermines not just this site but what we supposedly represent with hidden and therefore unanswerable accusations. So nobody knows what offenses and injustices lie beneath the pond’s placid surface.
I’m not going to beg anybody to stay or come back, though they’ll be missed. I will say that the implict and unfocused accusations implied by your actions leave me unable to defend who/whatever if I think they’re right, or to denounce them, or to split. You’ve left us with nothing but damaging innuendo that cannot be addressed. That is beneath you and this site. If we act from that kind of brittle weakness, how can we hope to prevail against the ruthless and shameless opposition? I believe you owe us a full explanation so that we have the information to make reality-based decisions of our own.
Dave I simply do not know what caused the split. I did not involve myself in the flame war over Mariscat or Joe Biden’s remarks or whatever else sparked this because 1) I don’t know Mariscat and had no real desire to shoot my mouth off about her, and 2) I don’t find flame wars productive and so I generally avoid them. I’m not trying to spread innuendo against anyone, simply state my desire to see good people patch up their differences (whatever those may have been) and continue to contribute to this site. You’ll have to ask someone else what led to this — I simply do not know, and I don’t want to hunt through the meta threads of the last few days to find out.
Steven, on reading my post I realize that it looks like I’m calling you out on this. That was far from my intention. My ire is directed at the principals in this little war.
Maybe the history is, as you say, buried somewhere in the archives, but for the rest of us, there are just vague innuendos and veiled accusations. Which leaves us with doubts about the site itself and the people who use it. I think that’s unfair to everybody here, and I’d have expected better.
Hi Dave,Ihappened to notice this comment and I would like to ask you to look toward my diary on site rule meeting, we are trying to organize a solution to site problems, as citizens and members of this community, which it is to so many of us. Especially I, who met my best friend ever, shirl.
I know of two others who very QUIETLY left the site in the past week for a totally different reason. No dramatics, just left.
Things change. People move on. New people and ideas come on board. Life.
Things change. People move on. New people and ideas come on board. Life.
I know you mean well SN, but I’d like to you know how that feels to me. It sounds a lot like what kos told the “women’s studies set” around the pie wars time.
People have been dissed and dismissed. Several of whom have been important to many of us on this site. And others are on the verge. I know people come and go all the time. But when they go because of stuff like this, we shouldn’t just sweep it under the rug.
Who stays at a blog or other online community forever? I think many people take it too seriously. It’s not the end of the world when people leave.
I was one who left during the pie wars.
Thanks, Steven, for doing this on the front page, and, just for doing it at all. I will miss both. We are all diminshed. So many strong voices gone.
I had a 4 day hiatus in order to have a new pacemaker/defibrillator put in (6 more years of life with a technological assist), so I missed whatever the blowup was that has brought things to this state. But since I’ve found myself over these last few years in virtually total agreement with both Leezy and Super on everything, I can only feel that it’s something that’s gone terribly wrong that has caused them to leave this site.
I’ve found myself over the last several months being much less engaged in blog conversations. Part of this is because I’m so discouraged with the political landscape that pretty much all the equivocal talk from the elected leadership just disgusts me, and I see things getting a whole hell of a lot worse before there’s any chance they’ll get better.
It may be that some of this generalized frustration and disgust is also coursing through Super and Leezy, and that in addition to whatever happened in the current dustup, everything just comes together and says “I just don’t want to play these stupid games anymore”.
I will surely miss Leezy and Super here, but I know they’re moving forward in their own lives, and I’m happy for them about that.
What’s a pie war? And how does one start one?