Chris Dodd and Barack Obama and Bill Richardson are on pins and needles waiting to see whether John Edwards caves in and fires Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon and Melissa McEwan of Shakespeare’s Sister and Big Brass Blog. If he does, the netroots is going to abandon him immediately and throw their power behind other candidates. Some candidates will see an immediate boost. Without Gore or Feingold in the race, we can go for a kind of conventional liberal in Dodd, we can go for a new face with a lot of promise in Obama, or we can go for experience and qualfications in Richardson. Some might go to Wesley Clark. I don’t see any possibility of Biden, Clinton, or Vilsack getting any netroots support under almost any circumstances, although I can only speak for myself. Edwards has carved out a good niche. If he wants to piss it all away in a moment to appease a group led by the likes of Kate O’Bierne then he doesn’t have what it takes to represent progressives. He’ll be finished in the online community.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
Unless I missed something,(again)the country’s gone ga-ga for Hilary. Or is that simply last weeks old news?
I won’t be picking a Democrat until 2008… or that’s how I feel at the moment.
I will not because right now I don’t like Democrats.
I don’t have enough confidence to care about one of them for that long.
The party has never shown me any loyalty, and perhaps one could blame me for never having confidence in it… I was raised to distrust all politicians… voting for Democrats never paid back in loyalty to the principles they sell.
really, never.
the closest was Clinton by being at least a competant administrator, I did come to appreciate that.
so Edwards, bleh, and not because he played games with the wrong bloggers for the wrong reasons and reacted the wrong way.
more because the way he did it is typical Democratic thinking.
results.
or at least, vocal demands in the case of someone out of direct power like Edwards.
there is no hire that will impress me
there isn’t a sound bite that will impress me
to impress me with sound will require ideas and also, I’ll have to see how you use those ideas as political action, I want to see a pattern between what you said on CNN and then later on Fox, I want to see you outsmart the idiocracy.
my attitude with the Democratic Party, of which I am a member, is “what have you done for me lately” and don’t say, “won congress” because WE did that for you, Democratic Party. It’s sick when you don’t know the difference between things done for you and by you.
I used to think no way Obama because he doesn’t have enough stripes. I was very impressed, though, by his oratorical skills and thoughts when he spoke to the Democrats’ Winter Meeting recently. He received almost as many standing ovations as a President receives for a SOTU. I just received e-mail from the man who closely lost the gubernatorial Democratic primary in California, Steve Westly, saying he’s thrown his weight to Obama.
In comparison, the other candidates (Dodd, Clark, etc.) just gave speeches. They talked the talk, but they weren’t nearly as inspirational as Obama.
Never did care for Hillary Clinton for President. Hope the expected change in California to a February primary doesn’t seal it for her.
If you knew Westly, you’d know that’s no recommendation for Obama. That’s like saying Jeb Bush is supporting Obama.
You didn’t say what’s so awful about Westly. Given a choice between Westly and the real loser the Democratic party ran, who touted his endorsements for lack of better things to say, I much preferred Westly. It was no huge surprise that Gov. Arnold was re-elected. It’s not because he’s done wildly popular things, but because the electorate which put Democrats into office all across the state couldn’t stand the Democrat running for governor.
Hey, no offense, BooMan, but I don’t think anyone is qualified to talk about who the netroots will or will not abandon.
I personally don’t think it was wise for a presidential candidate to hire people with such a potentially negative public profile, and if he fires them he’s doing what needs to be done. Some can call it caving, some can call it recognizing an issue and dealing with it. This isn’t like campaigning for city hall. This is the presidency, and there are a LOT of people in this country for whom profanity alone is reason enough not to vote for a candidate.
I absolutely refuse to base my vote on whether someone hires or fires a blogger. And I don’t want my “netroots” vote being spoken for. I understand the issue, and it would be marvelous to have someone with the courage to stand up to all the crap that comes from campaigning, but I don’t see one candidate in the race who would do any differently had THEY been the ones who hired these bloggers. I won’t have any single issue “litmus test” on my candidates.
I have no idea yet who I’ll support. I want Gore, and only Gore. At some point, I’ll probably have to choose another horse. But I sure as heck don’t have to choose one yet, and I’m not about to kick any out of the race at this point (except for me, Hillary, who has no chance in hell of ever getting my vote because she’s so opportunistic and would sell us out in a heartbeat if it would put her in the White House.)
Anyway. I just get upset when I hear people — anyone — try to say this is what the netroots will or won’t do, because we’re not a homogenous mass, and I think I speak for many of us who say we’ll make up our minds on Edwards based on many factors, not just this.
I can only speak for myself.
Here are the others. link.
for speaking what was on my mind.
Again we have the strange contradiction I wrote of before: the netroots are so diverse, vibrant, etc. but they all think the same way and march in lockstep. No thanks.
The entire situation raises three concerns. The first you’ve described: Who hired them? Why is the Edwards campaign surprised? Is there anyone, anywhere who doesn’t google their candidates before they hire? Or did Edwards and Bonior believe that bigots like Donohue wouldn’t look?
Second, why didn’t the bloggers themselves realize that they’d be under scrutiny. I’d defend their right to say what they say “to the death,” but in the interests of the candidate they should have realized they’d be under scrutiny.
But most importantly, when Donohue and his ilk are put on CNN as experts (claiming to represent Catholics–which he doesn’t!) what do we do about it? Have you complained? I have.
That, plus his statements on Iran and closeness to AIPAC may spell doom.
Could that be Boob $hrum peeking out from behind that curtain in Edwardsland?
If it is, Edwards can kiss his dreams goodbye.
Just an observation, not that I, or anyone else is qualified to actually speak for the only community. It’s just a very educated opinion.
I look at the overwhelming support for Amanda and Mellissa at John Edwards’ blog, as well as KOS, and throughout leftish Blogtopia.
Hell, even nutcase Dean Esmay deplores the idiocy of Malkin in this, but laments the Edward’s response, or lack thereof as very telling indeed.
I’m an Edwards Kool-aid drinker. Stood on stage with him and my 11 yr old daughter in 04, am co-chair of his Ohio netroots effort and run the Ohio for Edwards blog.
I’m “this” close to bolting.
Lisa, the problem is, if Edwards upholds the firing, he caves to a man who has said on TV that lesbians were “something I’d expect to see in an asylum, frankly” when he spoke to Justice Sunday, a gathering of far-right fundie Christianists.
But if he doesn’t cave, he loses some Catholic and probably more Christian votes. I think the ‘sin’ people will most react to is the brash language, not what was being said. That seems to be all a large portion of the voting public cares about. Oh, but wait – maybe they’re all Republicans! š
weren’t going to vote for Edwards anyway — he’s too pro-choice for that crowd.
Rank and file Christians wouldn’t blink at a few anti-Catholic remarks…some of them have the same view of many Catholic teachings if not the same use of language.
You know, this could come back and bite Markos and whatever candidate he ultimately supports right in the ass…all some enterprising right-winger has to do is go back in the archives and find that post about “mercenaries” from a couple of years ago that caused such a major foofraw…or even pull out some of the posts about the “sanctimonious women’s studies set” and accuse the candidate of being anti-woman.
I’m glad I have no political aspirations, so I can say whatever the hell I think…if this quashes political discourse out of fear of reflecting badly on our chosen candidate, then we’re all the poorer for it…
if this quashes political discourse out of fear of reflecting badly on our chosen candidate, then we’re all the poorer for it…
I suspect this will play out to be a good thing in the long run. What will happen is that those who are in blogging to advance their political career goals will neuter their language to preserve their “political viability”. Those that are in blogging for the opportunity to speak the truth as they see it will remain outspoken. For the present those two groups have been lumped together in a single entity that calls itself the “netroots”, but they are two very differenct tendencies. As the implications of what happened in this dust-up sink in, the ambitious careerists will increasingly retreat to publishing inoffensive pablum (a trend we’ve already seen even without this incident). Whether the appeal of internet politics is for vicarious access to the corridors of power on one hand, or for the outspoken words of the opinionated on the otehr, will emerge over time as the two tendencies separate.
I can write my own embarassing posts.
I am so sorry for the Edwards supporters. I am an Obama supporter since 04 (live in Illinois) and I just hate to see this happen.
It is a nightmare for all who support someone that something like this could happen.
I really wish you guys would not be hasty in ending your support. I think you should wait, think things over and see what happens. It could all come out alright somehow. You guys really believe in this guy. You believe in what he offers and what he promises.
He has no choice but, to fire them. It is called suvival. The lesser of 2 evils. If they stayed on he would have been eaten alive and you know it.
I do think, if you want to do anything, look for some gop guy to take down for edwards.
But, please be patient and don’t make any hasty decisions.
with any street cred have completely clean hands? Pretty damn few. Heck, maybe he should hire me — my diaries rarely get read anyway… lol
He has a choice — he could stand up and say, “The views expressed by members of my staff BEFORE THEY STARTED WORKING FOR MY CAMPAIGN do not reflect my views nor the views of my campaign…but I support free speech, just as does the US Constitution.
“Oh, but while we’re here, why don’t we look at some of the past statements of my accusers, Bill Donohue and Michelle Malkin, among others…”
Exactly! Their job then was to write their own opinions, now it’s to write Edwards’s opinions.
It’s not about what the bloggers might have said, it’s about how Edwards is going to reply to this swiftboating of his staff.
from the “single-issue” voters for his stand against the Iraq War; I didn’t get a chance to see it but he apparently made a good impression in an early morning diary over at dKos.
But I think the top winner would be Obama — he’s already running a close second to Edwards in the straw polls IIRC. Not sure about Richardson picking up much support — he’s still a bit of an unknown at this point…
It’s the “Dean Scream” all over again… And, yet again, the Democratic party is letting the faaarrr-right-wingnuts and their MSM echo chamber define the Democratic party’s candidates.
Do you need a pair of of long-nosed plyers to pull that hook, line and sinker out of yer blue bellies? ‘Cause you all swallowed it again.
Shakes head… Do you ever learn?
The people that are screaming bloody murder about this are the voters that will never, NEVER EVER, vote for a Democratic party nominee.
I would like all 2008 election commentators to take a deep breath, listen to War Pigs by Black Sabbath about 1,000 times and then listen to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath about 1,000 times.
We have the opportunity now to declare the 2008 election.
This is not a beauty contest.
It’s not about who you “like” or “don’t like” …
It’s got nothing to do with you or me.
This election is about our great grandchildren because of global warming.
Oh … and polar bears are now starving and dying. They are swimming 60 miles across open ocean and dying of starvation. It is so sick and putrid and sad that it makes me want to cry.
I know that means nothing. Look at the photos. Google them. I won’t give you links. You are adult enought to find them.
2008 is all about something much much larger than us ..
This is why we need to stop for a single g.d. minute thinking about nothing but ourselves.
I am thinking 7 generations from now — 2100 and 2200. That’s actually a very small amount of time.
Can we even think at all ?
Let’s prove it.
Cheers —
Douglas Watts
I am still more impressed with what Edwards has said so far than any other candidate. We will see.
Board of Advisors Board of Directors
Brent Bozell III
Gerard Bradley
Linda Chavez
Robert Destro
Dinesh D’Souza
Laura Garcia
Robert George
Mary Ann Glendon
Dolores Grier
Alan Keyes
Stephen Krason
Lawrence Kudlow
Thomas Monaghan
Michael Novak
Kate O’Beirne
Thomas Reeves
Patrick Riley
Robert Royal
Russell Shaw
William Simon, Jr.
Paul Vitz
George Weigel
They don’t represent most Catholics. They represent the neocon republican wing of Catholicism and there isn’t a chance in hell any of their loyalist would vote for any Democrat.
Good grief that’s a scary lineup.
The blogosphere takes itself much too seriously and thinks it has more power than it actually does.
Edwards can toss staffers overboard anytime he thinks it appropriate and this won’t affect the real momentum of his campaign significantly.
Perhaps the netroots will emerge as a real component of the political arena in the future, but it’s not there yet.
Whatever happens in this case will soon blow over. The media circus requires a 24 hour buzz and stories lose their edge rapidly.
I think you’re wrong about both the power and the consequences. But Chris Bowers explains it better than I can.
If you are in this game full-time you do not tolerate getting thrown under the bus or swift-boated. Not in a primary.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/8/12829/46193
Apparently, Edwards has “stood up”.