Joe Klein helpfully defines the School of Higher Broderism’s thinking on left-wing radicalism, and thereby defines the position of the Democratic Leadership Council.
A left-wing extremist exhibits many, but not necessarily all, of the following attributes:
–believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.
–believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.
–believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.
–tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.
–doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.
–believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).
–believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.
–believes that America isn’t really a democracy.
–believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.
–believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.
–is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.
–dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.
–regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.
I’ve had too many ideas washing around in my head recently to write very coherently on any of them. Joe Klein’s effort is therefore a bit of a godsend. People that hold the above beliefs do exist. I’ve seen many comments here that reflect these beliefs. The problem for Joe Klein is that he refuses to engage these people on the merits. So, let’s take them one by one.
believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.
Right now, at this very moment, it is very hard to argue that the United States is not a net negative force in the world. That is not the same as saying that the United States is a fundamentally negative force. It’s hard to define what that means. It would seem to mean that there is something basic in the very makeup of the United States that is a net negative. I suppose we could posit various characteristics that would stand for that ‘something basic’. We’ll be tackling some of those below. For now, I’ll just say that right now the United States is a net negative and it has been since Bush took office and began dismantling international treaties and rattling his saber. This fact is clearly seen the moment you travel abroad and are made to feel humiliation or embarrassment for being an American citizen. This is a source of much distress for those of us that occassionally cross over our borders.
believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.
Here we have to contend with the word primary. No one would dispute that America’s military presence in the Middle East was the stated grievance of al-Qaeda in their fatwas. It wasn’t a left-wing extremist that said in 1998, “The Arabian Peninsula has never — since Allah made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas — been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations.” That was Usama bin-Laden. If Joe Klein doesn’t think American imperialism has a strong relationship to the rise of Islamic radicalism then he must not believe bin-Laden was sincere or that any of his recruits were attracted to his message. Or, maybe Joe Klein thinks ‘American imperialism’ doesn’t exist and opposes the term. Or maybe he objects to the idea the America’s military and corporate presence in the Middle East is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism. If so, he should clarify. Because it isn’t extreme to actually read the enemy’s fatwas and report on them accurately.
believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.
Wasn’t Vietnam an ‘individual case of monumental stupidity’? At a minimum, Vietnam plus Iraq would make two fundamental cases of monumental stupidity and might legitimately give rise to questions about what exactly it is in America’s post-war era that makes us prone to bloody land wars in Asia. Do we need to avoid the use of the word ‘imperialism’ and use something a little more precise? But let’s be serious. Klein has read the PNAC documents, has he not? Remember this quote? “At present the United
States faces no global rival. America’s
grand strategy should aim to preserve and
extend this advantageous position as far into
the future as possible.” There is precious little evidence that the Democratic Party’s foreign policy establishment doesn’t have broad agreement with this unipolar goal. If we don’t want to call it ‘imperialism’ we can use some other term.
tends to blame America for the failures of others—i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.
This allegation seems to be pulled out of thin air. If someone wanted to argue that NATO partners are shirking their responsibilities in Afghanistan because they hate George W. Bush so incredibly much…I wouldn’t argue with them. Except I don’t know who the hell is accusing NATO of shirking their responsibilities in Afghanistan in the first place. I’m sure someone is…probably Republicans.
doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.
If our economy was presently being carefully regulated and sufficiently taxed, progressively, to pay even a decent portion of what we are spending and need to save…
Oh…why bother? Is some fantasyland form of capitalism that doesn’t exist the best liberal idea in history? Maybe so. Who cares? Very few on the left are calling for communism these days. What’s the point of this critique?
believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).
Again with the ‘fundamentally’. How to we deal with these fundamental arguments? Was what happened in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina fundamentally unfair, or was it an ‘aspect’ that needs improvement? Are 40 million Americans without health care suffering from something fundamentally unfair? Or do we need to do a tweak somewhere on that one? Is our prison and court system fair to minorities? I suppose we could go down a laundry list of inequities in American society compared to, say, Canadian society, and still insist that there is nothing ‘fundamentally’ unfair about America. Joe Klein…frigging idiot.
believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.
‘Society’. Well, that’s a bit vague, isn’t it? ‘Society’. Let’s compare the crime and poverty rates between America and Europe, or America and Japan, or America and Canada. What explains the immense differences? Could it be ‘society’? Or could it be that our media, led by self-satisfied people like Joe Klein, refuses to see any real pressing fucking problem with our current levels of crime and poverty?
believes that America isn’t really a democracy.
If this is one of those arguments over whether America is really a Republic or a Democracy, I’d have Joe Klein know that that is an argument favored by Libertarians and Republican reactionaries that like to restrict the franchise. As I assume Joe Klein’s idiocy doesn’t extend so far as to be oblivious to this fact, I have to assume this gets to some kind of unfairness doctrine or something. Maybe some lefties think that we don’t have a democracy when blacks have to wait in three hour lines to vote or elections get stolen, as in Florida 2000. Fortunately, most Republicans are quite happy with this form of democracy, since it favors their candidates.
believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.
There is indeed a rising antipathy to corporations on the left. But this doesn’t mean that they are ‘fundamentally’ evil. They are ‘fundamentally’ stateless. And they have grown in power to the point that they have more influence over our foreign policy than the American people do. So, when our government does something monumentally stupid like ‘go to war in Iraq’, then corporations are going to get an outsized (as opposed to outsourced) share of the blame.
believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.
I think I just addressed this. They control too much. Why is this hard to understand?
is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.
Please provide a list of good ideas originating from conservative sources over the history of the Bush administration? I will explain why they primarily serve the interests of the corporate conspiracy to control the world. Hint: I’m (barely) joking.
dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.
When people stop making theological arguments to support their public policy positions on abortion and gay marriage, we will stop dismissing their theology. Hardly anyone on the left, and almost no one involved in electoral politics, wants to insult people of faith (most of us are people of faith: check your census data, Klein). We just don’t want abortion and contraception outlawed because the Vatican or some evangelical preacher thinks the Bible should dictate an Americanized form of Shari’a law.
regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.
See Ann Coulter.
Masterful response. Cross-post it to the world.
orange.
great diary!
I canceled my subscription to Time magazine, cause
they started using articles by William Kristol,
besides Klein and Krauthammer. Does anyone know if
Time was bought out by Richard Mellon Scaife?
Booman, Thanks.
Nicely done BooMan, every response a good one. I wonder when George Will or some other establishment conservative commentator will come up with a similar list of right-wing extremism?
Klein consulted with me on numbers 1 through 10.
And on number 13.
The slimy little fuck.
He was in disguise.
He said he was a vacuum salesman.
he thought he had me fooled.
But I saw through the disguise.
He looked too small to be able to carry a vacuum.
I took him for a snake oil salesman.
I was right, too.
AG
P.S. We are always hearing about left- wing extremists, right-wing extremists…
How come we never hear about centrist extremists?
Huh?
Huh?
How come?
I mean…you can be extremely dull, right?
Why not extremely centrist?
Same thing….
I second or third the comment that this is an excellent response.
Quite frankly this is pure “beltway” talk. This is the kind of “assumed truths” that fill the chatter at those incestuous cocktail parties when sycophants like Klein cling to the coattails of the real movers and shakers, hoping that their ass kissing will be rewarded with a few crumbs of gratitude.
Meanwhile “real” Americans of every political stripe and persuasion know what a load of baloney politicians and their lapdogs in the media are.
Mister Joe Klein wouldn’t last two seconds if he tried to debate these issues on their merits with a peasant from rural Sri Lanka much less someone like Boo.
Basically the corporate media wants their echo chamber and that includes these utterly banal “talking points” and it is just reason 999 to switch off the TV, cancel the subscriptions and stick purely to blogs and a handful of (mostly non-US) newspapers.
Pax
Well, if you were looking to engage in a period of mental exercies then you have done extremely well. On the other hand, given the situation the world finds itself in at this time- screw klein. He isn’t worth the time or energy needed to examine this effing asshole.
Again, if anyone out there wants to express their feelings towards this piece of crap then “shun” him. Don’t read his comments. Don’t use any part of his writen postings. Write to any organization that offers him a platform and inform them that if he continues to be given such oppotrunities then the organizations offering these opportunities will be also boycotted as well. This is successful., and in the long run will hurt this bastard far more than the nonesense being employed at this time.
Everybody likes a list, especially on Saturday night.
I went through his poorly thought out claims and scored everything a 1 (I completely agree), a 1/2 (I basically agree, but quibble with his language), and 0 (no way in hell I agree).
My final score: 6 completely agree, 3 half agree, and 4 disagree.
Does that make me a progressive?
I’m not sure about that question. But I’m quite sure that Klein’s writings reveal him to be a world class wanker.
Data:
–believes the United States is a fundamentally negative force in the world.
1/2
–believes that American imperialism is the primary cause of Islamic radicalism.
1
–believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not an individual case of monumental stupidity, but a consequence of America’s fundamental imperialistic nature.
1
–tends to blame America for the failures of others–i.e. the failure of our NATO allies to fulfill their responsibilities in Afghanistan.
1/2
–doesn’t believe that capitalism, carefully regulated and progressively taxed, is the best liberal idea in human history.
1
–believes American society is fundamentally unfair (as opposed to having unfair aspects that need improvement).
1
–believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the primarily the fault of society.
1/2
–believes that America isn’t really a democracy.
1
–believes that corporations are fundamentally evil.
1
–believes in a corporate conspiracy that controls the world.
0
–is intolerant of good ideas when they come from conservative sources.
0
–dismissively mocks people of faith, especially those who are opposed to abortion and gay marriage.
0
–regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives.
0
Let’s see, how can I refute Joe while retaining all of the false colors he uses to paint me. Hmmm, Ann Coulter was obviously blowing him when he wrote what he wrote.
I was going to look at this when I first read it. Thank you for doing it better (ie: using more tact) than I would have!
Thank you so much! I have to suggest complete abandonment of the contentional left wing in much the same way most have abandoned Faux news and most of MSM in general. The outlined beliefs would resonate very highly with the new anti-globalist political party. The statements of beliefs however need some minor revisions as long standing media lies have so distorted perceptions on certain issues. In many cases even the English language can not be used, it means different things to different people.
This is fun ! Let’s all do it !
A right-wing extremist exhibits many, but not necessarily all, of the following attributes:
–believes the United States is a universally benevolent and righteous force in the world.
–believes that American imperialism is the hope of the world, and anyone who opposes it is evil and should be exterminated.
–believes that the decision to go to war in Iraq was right and necessary, and will ultimately result in victory is we but stay the course
–tends to blame others for any lack of American success
— believes that capitalism, except when it is regulated and taxed, is the best conservative idea in human history.
–believes American society is the best and fairest in the world, but would be even better with less regulation and lower taxes.
–believes that eternal problems like crime and poverty are the entirely the fault of criminals and incompetent or lazy poor people.
–believes that America is the greatest democracy in the world, despite the fact that too many of the wrong people vote..
–believes that corporations are the last, best hope for the world.
–believes that only corporate control can save the world.
–believes that liberals never have any good ideas.
–believes that people of faith are following the only possible path to virtue.
–only uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack people who deserve it.
This is a partial list, off the top of my head–additions and subtractions will be carefully considered. I just couldn’t wait until next week.