cross-posted at skippy and a veritable cornucopia of other community blogs.
in our recent (and recommended at boomantribune, frontpaged at myleftwing…thank you all…sniff…we couldn’t have done it without the little people) diary the wizard of kos, we tried to prove with real facts that kos is a jerk. well, actually, what we tried to prove was that his purging of his blogroll was objectively a bad thing. we kind of did, too, tho we were pretty much preaching to the choir. can we get an ‘amen’?
however, booman brought up the idea of individual dkos user blogrolls on their own individual diaries:
skippy-
markos gave every diarist their own blogroll, thereby immensely increasing the number of bloglinks emanating from his site. i don’t know how powerful those links are compared to the homepage, but it would seem he has greatly increased the potential for helping google rankings and taking himself out of the decision making process.
in the interest of fairness, you might mention that, since it seems unlikely his intent was to hurt bloggers by jacking up their links by several orders of magnitude. I, for example, used to have one link from there (two if you include my sig) and now I have 80 or something. Overall, it hurt my traffic, but it probably helped by google ranking.
well, bad news for booman: it not only hurt your traffic, it didn’t help your google ranking one iota.
— we tell you why after the jump —
we wrote to bill slawski, the author of the original piece we based our post on, and of the blog seo by the sea – internet marketing and search engine optimization research and services. mr. slawski wrote back:
each individual diary appears to be created on its own unique subdomain at dailykos.com. what that means for purposes of indexing at google is that each is treated as a unique website rather than part of the dailykos site. you can see when you perform a search on google for “dailykos” that in addition to the main dailykos home page, the results are also filled with the diary sites. google normally will only show two results from the same site in their search results page, with the second result being an indented one under the first. since it isn’t filtering out pages from the diary sites, it does appear that it is treating them as separate sites.
[ed. note: don’t get excited, kids. keep reading]
there is a benefit to each of the diary sites in having links to them from the front page of the main dailykos site, and from other pages of the main dailykos domain. hard to tell if the benefit of links appearing in the main content area of the front page is any different than links appearing in the sidebar.
on each of the diary pages, there is a link labeled “blogroll” that points to a page on the main dailykos site. these blogrolls aren’t on the dairy site subdomains, so they aren’t separate blogrolls for each of the diary sites, but rather pages that would be considered by google to be part of the main dailykos site. but…
if you look at the robots.txt file for the dailykos.com site, you’ll see that the user pages are disallowed for a number of robots (http://www.dailykos.com/robots.txt).
user-agent: googlebot
#disallow: /
disallow: /comments
disallow: /user
disallow: /poll
disallow: /print
disallow: /searchoddly, yahoo’s slurp isn’t disallowed, nor is msnbot.
[ed. note: go figure!]
the diary owner’s blogrolls are being disallowed to googlebot by the robots.txt files. the url structure of the diary owners’ blogrolls is like this:
http://www.dailykos.com/user/username/blogroll
because of this line in the robots.txt file – “disallow: /user” – google isn’t allowed to visit those diary users’ blogroll pages, and index them, and follow the links upon them. in terms of ranking value for these user blogrolls, there is none, because google isn’t allowed to visit those pages.
[ed. note: emphasis, and haughty ‘we-told-you-so’ tone, ours]
it is quite possible that the way those blogrolls is set up wasn’t intended to deprive those blogrolls of any value.
[ed. note: yah, right. and duncan black doesn’t mean to be snarky.]
i would disallowed the individual user pages if i had set up this site because the main page of those have the same content as the subdomain main pages for each user.
i also noticed that the main dailykos page that, it has a url canonicalization issue. see matt cutts blog post – seo advice: url canonicalization at http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-advice-url-canonicalization/
if you have the google toolbar installed on your browser, and the pagerank indicator activated, you can look at the main domain address for the site with and without the “www” and see a difference in the numbers that it shows. with the “www” it appears to have a toolbar pagerank of 8. without the “www” it appears to have a toolbar pagerank of 7. it’s possible that google doesn’t recognize that they are in fact the same page, and may be splitting pagerank between the two pages. matt explains in his post how to resolve that issue with a permanent (301) redirect. since it’s likely that most people linking to the site use the “www,” then it may be best to redirect from the non=www version to the www version.
we are in great debt to mr. slawski in helping us prove that kos is a jerk blogroll purges are not healthy for greater blogtopia, and yes, we coined that phrase.
sorry, booman.
give some mojo for him.
skip-
post her in orange. If true, that’s bullshit and people should force him to allow their blogrolls to get surfed. Charlie surfs, dammit.
i think the “kos is a jerk” stuff might not go over so well over there…
I was just posting a comment in the open thread last night, and one of his Kops asked why I was posting there, and linked to a diary I’d written here earlier.
In other words, it wasn’t something I’d posted there, and it had nothing to do with the link I was posting. Don’t know if the purpose was to “out” me or discourage me from posting, or both. In spite of the guy’s claim, I hardly think I post there “a lot”. Wasn’t posting at all for a while, but that’s a lot of people to cut oneself off from.
Ah, so I’m one of the ‘Kops’ now? Funny, given that I don’t have a ‘badge’ and simply struck me as odd given how you had previously denigrated Markos.
It was a reasonable question, and you didn’t bother trying to argue the point.
It was creepy, and it had nothing to do with my comment.
Anyway, you got your answer above.
I’m not a good “debater”, and I’m not into that. So, you, uh, “win” by my not coming back to continue the discussion.
And I didn’t call you a name.
Well, you can call it creepy if you like. I just happened to remember that particular entry you had written because it seemed particularly bitter about the entire blogroll fiasco.
And you didn’t call me a ‘Kop’ just above? Come on, I’m not that stupid.
I need to leave for work.
Daily Kos is a big place–that’s part of the issue. I hardly think I’m the only person who posts there who doesn’t much care for the proprietor. But I’d probably be easier than a lot of people to scare off, because I really don’t like confrontation.
And it doesn’t come easily to me to write that sort of thing, but it’s not about “bitterness”, although I know people can’t help but spin it that way. Thanks for posting the link where I made my point.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/2/15/72839/6287
Bitterness? No, frustration. I have enough on my plate with financial struggles and a special needs/gifted child that many people would understand if I didn’t try to get involved politically. But I do. And even in the blog world, where I was once naive enough to think things were fairly egalitarian, there are barriers.
And I do have to get to work now. I don’t plan to write a GBCW at Kos, but I’m not likely to post there much. So, yeah, whatever, you “called me out”. I’m not in this for a “fight”. That post was meant to try to explain that there was a problem, and why, and in the time since then I have been trying to work toward something positive.
Peace, everyone.
You follow her all the way over here just to keep badgering her? It isn’t enough to play diary patrol at Kos? What is the point? What do YOU get out of this? What part of free speech is no longer free speech to you? And I guess you have decided to broaden your territory out a little? But Boo’s tenet is a little different from kos – Boos is “don’t be a prick!” You are treading extremely close to that line for sure!
Every fascist regime must spread outside its original borders.
Every fascist regime must have an Other to fight. The Other must be engaged within the borders of the fascist regime, and then hunted abroad.
The Kosland is under attack. Its enemies dare to utter unkind words about the Leader. How dare they!
Renee has committed the unforgivable thoughtcrime of criticising The Kos and for this, she must be hunted and hounded to the ends of the blogosphere.
Turn yourself in, Renee, and repent. You will be
brainwashedrehabilitated if you throw yourself upon DHinMi’s mercy (or whoever is playing Grand Inquisitor in The Kosland this week).It’s currently Lucius Vorenus.
aka “Delaware Dem”. Watches the HBO miniseries “Rome” and fancies himself an honourable soldier.
Well, that’s the level of intellectualism at the Big Orange: Everything I Know About Ancient History I Learned from HBO. God forbid anybody should crack a book. Didn’t Kos once proudly proclaim he doesn’t read books unless he’s using them to pass time waiting in airport terminals? Is it possible Incurious George and Inkurious Kos are twin sons of different mothers? Or is Kos “one of the little brown ones”?
(Note: Lucius Vorenus is one of two soldiers mentioned by Julius Caesar in his writings; Lucius Vorenus was an extremely valiant soldier if one believes Julius C.)
apropos of nothing, i just finished watching the first season of rome on dvd, and serendipitously i saw the last episode where ceasar got stabbed to death on march 15…the ides of march!
Rome IS a good HBO miniseries, more historically faithful than most.
I wonder how long until America has its Caesar. General MacArthur fancied himself its saviour a couple of generations ago, but was rejected by the public. However, I’ve heard many “liberals” (including the so-called “progressives” at the Big Orange) wishing for the Man on the White Horse, aka the mythical “benevolent dictator”, to come riding in to rescue the Republic.
Really, Bush’s failing in the mind of the American people and the Congress is not that he is a dictator, but an incompetent one.
If Bush’s schemes for colonising Iraq had worked out, he would be acclaimed, not pilloried, and everybody would be ignoring his evisceration of the Bill of Rights.
Make no mistake about it: if the Bush family had only put Jeb forward first instead of George for President, things would have worked out quite differently. Jeb is far scarier because he actually has a functioning neocortex and is relatively competent (for a Bush…”relatively” because the key word in that sentence).
America is ready for its Caesar, I think. We have only to find him.
asking yourself why the fuck ever having criticized kos matters.
he is FAR from beyond reproach, and if it bothers you when he is criticized, or if you think, perhaps that criticizing the phone company means never using a phone again… you should think again.
Yeah, you are – but your “badge” is worth nothing over here.
“Denigrating” kos isn’t the same as kicking a dog. You start banning campaigns against people who do things that strike you as “odd”, do you? Hit the bricks brown-shirt.
Wow…Psyfighter, that was pathetic and petty of you.
At any rate, on topic, the one upside of the blogroll fiasco is it caused many blogs to band together. Renee’s Blogger’s Alliance is wonderful and I wish her the best with it. I now make it a point to travel to smaller blogs through the blogrolls and in the process am discovering some super cool blogs.
As Psyfighter has shown above, and Kos has shown with his blog purge, DKos is not about building a community, it’s about enforcing memes.
We don’t need you to bring this thuggish crap over here. Get out of here. And grow up about 15 years before you come back.
Ah, so I’m one of the ‘Kops’ now?
absolutely.
you didn’t bother trying to argue the point.
No one sensible tries to argue points with the KosKops. You’re just not worth the time.
yeah, the practice of harrassing and banning people for what they write elsewhere, very winning stratagy.
good luck controlling the flow of information psi.
I ask anyone that I want to blogdrool for their permission. thus far Booman & David Boyle have been the only ones to decline/ignore.
Che sera sera.
you can blogroll me miss devore!
or do you just want to get on her blogdrool?
the new cyber equivalent of getting into someone’s pants/panties.
you know i love you from afar miss devore.
DB ignored you? Too bad.
Election is over and like Cindy Sheehan the leadership of the Democratic party needs her not and that goes for the “neetroots” too.
I recall a about a year or so ago I made some off-the cuff remark somewhere that Cindy Sheehan would eventually become expendable at the Orange Place. I cannot find that comment (probably something out in Haloscan someplace) but here’s a little something from the past at the old version of my blog:
Thanks, skippy. BTW, I’ve added you to my humble blogroll.
and i will add blogomni in a few days. i’ve had a veritable slew (slough?) of blogs requesting to be on skippy’s roll, and i am quite behind in my blogroll work.
“After the jump”. It grates on my nerves. It was kind of cool–in a nerdy blogger sort of way–the first 10 million times it was used.
as long as you don’t want to retire “blogtopia,” i support you in your quest to be curmudgeony.
i want to make kangaroo porn
ok with me.
ptsi is probably under the influence of “orange” it will eventually wear off.
My only question is why so many give blogs have dkos real high on their blog roll???Booman?? when the courtesy is coming back the other way. Look Leftcoaster he’s on Dkos blog roll yet, dkos is in alphabetical order on his blog roll.
People need to stop kissing..when there not kissing back.
No, he is under the influence of Adam B, who he writes whenever I malign him on this site. He, Adam B and Delaware Dem, now LV, all worked for Patrick Murphy, and now they are all mindless Obama drones. They are thugs with no tact and no integrity who bully those who disagree with them on any site to which they have access. They are also supporters of the DLC.
Man oh man.
It really pays to actually meet people in real life.
Del Dem is a fairly conservative Dem on some issues. He and I do not agree on many issues, and I do not in any way support his online persona. Adam B is more of a centrist than any kind of conservative. But, I’d say he is more pragmatic than he is centrist. I often disagree with his analysis. PsiFighter is a member of the Univ. of Pennsylvania Young Democrats, and is a solid progressive. I know them all because we are all active in Philadelphia politics. They know each other for the same reason. They are not friends, at least not socially and intimately, and I really doubt they email each other on any kind of regular basis.
They all supported Patrick Murphy, as did every Democrat in this city that had the pleasure of meeting him. That means nothing. I have no idea if they support Obama or not. If they do, they do so from their own free choice.
And none of them would fairly be described as DLC Democrats, although Adam and Del Dem might be aligned with them in more respects than me or psifighter.
I am not vouching for anyone’s behavior in online threads. But your facts are so out of whack that it is no wonder they are trying to correct the record.
All I know is the following:
PsiFighter is now stalking those who disagree with Kos, just as Adam B stalks me here. I also know Adam B started to stalk me here after PsiFighter and I exchange words involving their Obamarama. And yes, all of them have announced that they are Obama supporters. PsiFighter has done so here and at MyDD; Adam B in his account file at DailyKos; LV, or Delaware Dem, in his signature line.
Adam B vigorously invalidated Cegelis supporters, and he has also bullied many at DailyKos and at MyDD for supporting certain candidates. He also invaded Maryscott O’Connor’s diaries.
Adam B, Delaware Dem and PsiFIghter are all photographed together in a diary here on the Murphy campaign.
PsiFighter and I have had a debate about the DLC and the definition of progressive politics.
Yes, they are all from the same city, and that should not be ignored.
I have analyzed their online behaviour, and I and others have reached certain conclusions. Whether or not they make excuses for members of the DLC, or as they say, pragmatic politics, is not of interest to me. Their attempts to bully and silence those of us who uphold different political viewpoints and engage in different modes of interpretation and knowledge production do matter. Given what I have witnessed online, I would never want to interact with them in person. And given what I have seen online, I doubt I would even waste my time.
they were all with me and hundreds of others at Murphy’s campaign headquarters on election night. I was actually the first person to realize Murphy had won. It was the fruition of a lot of work. We were happy. Photos were taken. Fun was had.
It’s not a conspiracy. And I don’t defend anyone’s online behavior.
I do know that Adam B regularly googles his own name and see comments about him days after they have been posted. He doesn’t need anyone to email him.
I understand your point.
I understand your point.
Booman, I haven’t really commented much on the Meta wars (except as it related to the meltdown here a couple of months ago) and not at all on the restructuring going on at Kos.
But I have been loosely following it because I’m an organizational culture/social life of information kinda freak. So the concept of culture and identity as it relates to “information flows” literally fascinates me.
And what I’ve been seeing is certain posters, aliases, and memes jumping from site to site (esp. to here and MYDD)that seek to force the conversation into the same stucture or paradigm that currently exists at Kos.
Basically they want all round pegs to fit into the same square hole despite the widely different conversations, communities, and parameters that exist at each site.
My sense is that they are seeking to build an echo chamber that supports center-left discourse (center-left in the U.S context not WW center-left) and candidates rather than communities of progressives grappling with ways to solve significant domestic and global issues that impact peoples lives. And of course peoples ability to live lives that reflect the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
It appears to me that anybody who has actively challenged the prevailing paradigm or meme at Kos (outside of a few notable exceptions) is fair game anywhere across blogtopia (TM Skippy).
My sense is that they are seeking to build an echo chamber that supports center-left discourse (center-left in the U.S context not WW center-left)
I agree with these observations except that I would say the desired echo chamber (or, as one DK operative put it, “Army of Dittoheads”) is center right. My sense is that they’re not interested in what others have to say at all but, rather, in the content of our collective wallets.
context, not a U.S. context. Our center-left is pretty conservative compared to the traditonal European left.
Our center-left is pretty conservative compared to the traditonal European left.
I wasn’t considering the European left; the US population isn’t nearly as conservative as most of these sons of bitches.
I see something different.
I see a large disaffected group of Kossacks that have migrated away from that site and then decided to hurl grenades at the site, and members of the site that they dislike. And then they concoct vast conspiracy theories about how all the BBB’s (variously rendered as Big Box Bloggers or Big Boyz of Blogging) are pursuing an anti-progressive agenda.
Their conspiracies tend to involve a variety of false premises. For example, they accuse me and Chris Bowers of sharing the political views of Markos. They accuse Duncan and Markos of coordinating a purge of their blogrolls to consolidate power. They accuse people of pandering to Markos in return for kickbacks. They accuse us of wanting to get actual jobs within the Democratic Party, or of taking payments to hew some line.
All of this is false. There are some members of Daily Kos that have been empowered to patrol the site and attack certain kinds of speech. There are far more people that have taken that job upon themselves and may or may not being acting in accordance with management’s wishes. Many presumed that Armando was acting on managements’ wishes, but as he was banned, it seems that there was a disconnect there, too.
And then there is a second thing that I see. It can be summed up in this paragraph:
This is ridiculous. We can see this same thinking in this post by nonpartisan:
No DC elite at all? Did I read that right?
There is a difference between wanting equal opportunity and justice for all Americans, and smoking crack (which is what thinking we can get rid of a DC elite amounts to).
All movements have leaders and representatives. If bloggers are invited to talk to Senators that means they are there as representatives of the blogging community. If you don’t like the political views of Markos then lend your support to Bowers. If you don’t like the political views of Bowers lend your support to Christy Hardin Smith. If you don’t like her political views, lend your support to some other blogger or blogging community. If you don’t think anyone fairly represents your views then see if you can get your own seat at the table.
There is this really strange sentiment that bloggers should not dirty themselves with actual power. They shouldn’t go on radio shows or appear on CSPAN or hold conferences or meet with politicians. This is absurd. Would members of the NAACP say the same things about their leaders?
But then people say, no one elected bloggers as leaders. That’s true. The election as leaders came about in a much simpler way. Radio bookers called, chiefs of staffs sent emails, invitations were passed out. People in power wanted to talk to the blogging world so they contacted the bloggers. In some cases, corporate America came calling. Glenn Greenwald now works for Salon. Is that a bad thing? Is he a sell-out?
There is an unhealthy suspicion of success, or advancement, and of power. The people that have been in power in this country (in DC and the media) have to be replaced. Why not progressives? Why not bloggers and progressive activists of all stripes?
What’s wrong with it? To me, the real problem has been that Daily Kos turned out not to be a progressive blog. And that has pissed off a lot of people. It pissed me off and that is why this blog exists. But Markos and Jerome are different from every other major blogger I know. They do not share the political views of even their front-pagers. And there is no conspiracy.
I think people need to have a sense of humor.
This is exactly why I’ve ended up at this site. You and the posters here:
a.) really make me think
b.) are much closer to my political philosophy than the Big Orange, and,
c.) you allow a pretty diverse set of opinions and even “invective”, despite what many may think
When I drifted here via Euro Trib and your Kos postings I really sensed that the level of discourse, analysis and even smarts or intellect was going down the tubes over at Kos. So I voted with my feet-or my fingers-to be more accurate. Found this place and stayed.
Than I noticed that a lot of my favorite diarists were here or visitng here and had set up shop elsewhere.
And that many of them had been banned from Daily Kos.
And that a disproptionate amount of them were outspoken, highly opinonated women.
And Greens.
And progressives on the edge of “acceptable” American discourse.
And that many of them called out certain posters who I always rolled my eyes at because you could just tell they thought they were big swinging dicks (an old wall street term)with nothing innovative or penetrating to say.
I also sensed a very uneasy truce between those who had left and those who stayed, except for when those who had left but weren’t banned, ventured back and spoke out.
Then all hell broke loose.
And I think that Kos’ restructuring of his site unleashed a lot of pent-up frustration, angst and anger. It remains to be seen how it will play out.
But as people have gotten more vocal about it and called out the hidden structures that exist or existed at Kos they began getting followed and in some cases harrassed.
And people started calling out other sites if they allowed the wide-open discourse that is discouraged at Kos.
I even noticed this at MYDD. There were a series of posters who were arguing and writing very much in the Daily Kos vein and pushing hard against those who disagreed with their position (let alone their frame).
There was a comment a while back in one of your diaries on Kos (maybe it was the one defending the blogroll restructuring?) that called you out (nicely though)for allowing banned Kos emigres pretty free reign on your site. Made me go hmmm…
Now, I’m up to my eyeballs in democratic party politics and often get frustrated with people who push agendas or memes that have a snowball’s chance in hell of success in today’s climate.
But in a non election year I want to hear these voices and have a beer with people and push the envelope as far as we fricking can in terms of how we think about governing and elections and parties and democracy.
And how all that impacts our lives, our communities and our identities.
Because only then can we truly solve these immense looming humanitarian and environmental crises.
AG’s comments about economic imperialism and backlash? He’s 100% right but might be way before his time. Or maybe not.
And this time the United States and its two parties have lost almost all moral standing.
So what happens the next time a Great Depression or Global Panic comes around?
Blood in the streets.
Bet on it. 🙂
We have an opportunity to fix things before that happens and to take our country back. But not if the folks like Kos who have already achieved mucho cred via their hard work and insights force a narrowing of discourse across progressive blogtopia (TM Skippy) in order to protect their brand and market space.
Is Armando banned? I saw in David Boyle’s diary earlier this week that Armando had left, but I couldn’t grasp anything else through all the snark. Was there an event or announcement (with a link)?
An Emily Latella moment. I just found it at MLW
Again, BooMan beat me to this, but:
Please address me with a modicum of respect. As far as I am concerned, your arrogance is unfounded.
Stop inventing personal attacks.
I doubt that or anything else will change your behaviour.
Au revoir.
Stop lying, and see what happens.
Now you want me to trust you? How do I know I can trust you? Are you sure you will not hurt me?
HURT you? Whuh?
Here’s my offer: stop lying about me, and I will leave you alone. Period. Completely. Unambiguously.
Will you PLEASE drop this and stop the harassment?
. . . see who started it. I have a right to defend myself from this bullshit.
I don’t care who started it – YOU are continuing it, and it sure looks like harassment at this point.
I just take my reputation kinda seriously.
Speaking of which, is it considered good form on this site to just mass troll-rate every post someone places in a thread, and without actually making a post to justify the ratings?
The trollish nature of your behavior is so obvious that an explanation is not really necessary. And your claimed inability to understand that you are being trollish is a marvel of disingenuousness.
What am I missing?
And what will you stop doing?
BooMan covered this pretty well, but just so there’s no ambiguity:
I disagree.
That’s all well and good, but unless you present some factual basis for your disagreement, there’s really nothing to discuss.
I am not interested in your interpretation of the facts. Besides, you already lied once in this thread.
Au revoir.
“My interpretation”? They are facts.
What’s the lie?
You mean, the post of mine to which MSOC herself responded, “Adam, I understand where you’re coming from, I truly do.”
That’s an invasion?
Sorry, but this reminds me of Cindy, the girl I had a crush on in the second grade. I tripped her on the playground and yanked her pigtails.
Hey, it was my way of saying “I love you”.
She punched me in the gut. Hard.
Please stop.
Hmm. Looks to me the other way around.
You’re harassing her.
I’m guilty of harassment, though, too.
A vandal broke a window in my house and I chased him down and caught him. Clear case of me harassing the guy.
I hope the judge and police make me apologise to him.
I note with amusement that Adam B. gave you a 4 for this, which proves either his lack of reading comprehension or a refined sense of irony I had heretofore missed.
I was hesitant to come back and look at this diary yesterday, as it had already been a rough day in a lot of ways. When I finally did, I was touched to see the support and mojo I’d received. That meant a lot to me.
Just wanted to say thank you.