Just kidding.
The Democrats are doing no such thing.
But I had you fooled there for a second, didn’t I?
But remember, no matter how bad the Democrats are, no matter how many of your fundamental human rights they surrender (never to be reclaimed),the Republicans are always worse.
So, uh, vote Democratic…so you can have bold, decisive leadership from Democrats like House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., took no position on two of the hottest social issues in America today — guns and abortion — in a week when those subjects were brought before the public in quite compelling ways.
Took no position. Uh…
Asked about this morning’s historic and unprecedented decision by the U.S. Supreme Court to uphold a state ban on an abortion procedure, Pelosi — longtime backer of abortion rights — said, “This is an issue I need to review.” Reid immediately changed the subject to the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. “That’s what it brings to my mind,” Reid said.
Well, maybe they need time to…you know…review it. But surely Pelosi, a San Francisco liberal, has a position on gun control in the wake of the Virginia Tech massacre? Right? Right?
Two days after the slaughter of 32 innocents on the campus of Virginia Tech by a shooter with two handguns, Pelosi demurred on whether Congress was in any mood to examine gun control laws.
“The mood in Congress is one of mourning, sadness and the inadequacy of our words” to help the bereaved, Pelosi said.
Thanks, Nancy. You’re a real tiger.
Visit The Blogging Curmudgeon for more curmudgeonliness.
No, you didn’t fool anyone. Democrats doing anything bold isn’t believable. But what other choice do we have?
I favor gun control but I’ve come to accept that it is political suicide in the mountain west and in rural areas all over. If we can lose our hostility to the 2nd amendment we have a chance to find other populist candidates like Jon Tester who can appeal to those regions – while still being more liberal than the damn blue dogs.
who are the reason that I’m not going to bitch about the leadership being weak. Pelosi can’t whip progressive legislation through the house when so many of her caucus are corporatist republicans-light.
Well, that’s realistic but depressing.
So Democrats can’t be a majority party if they defend abortion rights or gun control.
As someone who’s lost a son, a best friend, and a number of promising (and in one case, beloved) students to gun violence, I’m wondering why I should bother voting Democratic.
If the only way Democrats can win is to mimic Republicans, then the difference between the two parties–already vanishingly small–is reduced to insignificance.
How about this: Democrats do the hard work of convincing rural voters that they are NOT going to take away their hunting weapons, only those weapons which are used in urban violence? Cho used a Glock 9mm, for God’s sake, and the only thing you hunt with that is other humans.
Hm, staking out principles and fighting for them? Doesn’t sound like the craven Democratic Party I’ve come to know and loathe. The Democrats used to be different, a party that took risks on civil rights, women’s rights, and a host of other issues. Sure, they took political hits for their courage, but they moved this country forward. What’s the use of having a Democratic majority if it acts almost exactly like the Republican majority?
No wonder the largest political party in this country is the None Of You Bastards Party, which routinely gts 50%-70% of the “vote” in any election.
Cheap shot. Everytime Democrats make any progress there is always some alledged lefty to piss all over it.
I am old enough to remember when lefties told us there was no difference between Humphrey and Nixon. That is how we got Rehnquist.
Bill Clinton gave us 8 years of peace and prosperity, but nobody can say thank you.
Since taking over Waxman, Leahy, Boxer, and Conyers have all held ground breaking hearings, with more on they way.
I am really sorry there will be no progress on guns until 2009 at the earliest, but let us not despise the progress we have made.
Oh, and one more thing, if you really cared about gun safety, and not just using it as a club to hit Democrats, why not post a diary about Sarah Brady’s group, or ProtectPolice.org or GunGuys.com or someone who is trying to make a difference.
…with you. But it was not the leftist exodus in ’68 that got us Nixon. It was the right-wing exodus to Wallace. If Wallace hadn’t been on the ballot in just three states, it is likely enough of those who voted for him would have voted instead for Humphrey, or split their votes 2:1 for Humphrey over Nixon. Many were still diehard Dems in those days. The number of leftists who voted for Dick Gregory or who didn’t vote at all were swamped by these Dixiecrats and other regional racists.
Not after that anti-gun control diary you frontpaged on DailyKos.
Kossack Pro-Gun Diary
And don’t give me the “lower murder rate” in the U.S., either. The murder rate is extraordinarily high in the United States, and though it’s fallen in recent years, it’s going back up.
Hint: You’re not a leftist if you are pro-gun. You’re a former leftist.
But hey, at least you got the frontpage gig at DailyKos. All you had to do was chuck your “leftist” principles over the side.
Oh, and by the way, this part of your diary is priceless:
Yeah, how’s that prosecution of Mr. Cho coming along? Oh wait…he committed suicide. After killing 32 innocent people. That “vigorous prosecution” is a crock of Republican horseshit.
this comment is prickish.
Opposition to gun ownership is not a leftist position. There is no litmus test on guns. People have different ideas about how to regulate guns.
It’s not “opposition to guns”. I support licensing guns for hunters (they do that even in strict gun control countries like the U.K.).
Meteor Blades favors CONCEAL AND CARRY for Chrissakes. That’s a leftie position in what universe?
You can label it “prickish” because MB is a bud of yours if you want, Booman. But I stand behind my position without apology: Anybody who favors “conceal and carry” is NOT a leftist.
Maybe if you’d lost a son, a best friend, and seen the lives of several young people snuffed out by gun violence, you’d be less forgiving on the issue.
MB can call himself whatever he likes, and you can call me whatever you like. But that doesn’t mean I have to accept the labels.
I like MB but he isn’t my bud. You attacked him with fairly intemperate language and using an argument that is fairly weak. I don’t care if he has posting privileges at some other site, there is no reason to just haul off on him here for something like this.
I don’t know where you live. I live in Philadelphia.
I don’t need a lecture on gun violence.
What I need is a way to protect myself since the police are clearly not up to the job. You don’t get to define what makes a leftist. I don’t own a gun, but I certainly should be allowed to own one since my city is not safe.
Booman, have you ever been confronted with an armed criminal?
I assume you have.
If not, let me tell you what it’s like.
The other guy (and it’s almost always a guy) has already drawn and pointed a loaded gun at you. Who do you think you are, Quick Draw McGraw?
This ain’t the Wild West, my friend. Maybe Doc Holliday could outdraw somebody who already had a weapon leveled at his gut. Can you? Do you want to try?
I’m damn good with firearms. Grew up with them. My Dad was a sharpshooter in Korea and taught me how to handle all sorts of firearms, from small caliber pistols to rifles.
I can’t possibly draw a pistol, aim it at somebody, and shoot them before they shoot me, and I’ll bet good drinking money I’m a much faster and more accurate shot than you. That’s a myth from the Wild West movies.
My older sister was a police officer for awhile before she returned to graduate school and became a psychiatrist. She was taught in training that if a suspect already has his gun drawn and trained on you, you’d better hope that you’ve already cleared YOUR weapon from the holster…or you’re dead.
Guns for self-protection is a huge myth, Booman. I know, everybody has ancedotes about the 90 year old grandmother who fought off a vicious gang with her .457, Dirty Harry style. I toss those on the heap with Reagan’s anecdotes about “welfare queens” who drove Cadillacs. Urban legends or examples so rare as to be meaningless in guiding policy formulation.
More often than not, a handgun is used to shoot a family member during a violent quarrel, or is used by a criminal against a law-abiding citizen.
Having a handgun might give you some false sense of security. A real sense of security would come from more police, much stricter handgun control, and VERY strict control of the quantity of ammunition anybody is allowed to buy.
As for the temperateness of my remarks…well, I AM a curmudgeon. I didn’t “unload” on MB because he frontpages at DailyKos, but because of the content of what he wrote there. MB could have published those remarks anywhere and I’d feel the same. His position on guns is NOT leftist.
You are wrong about one more thing: I DO get to decide who I call a leftist and who I don’t call a leftist. I don’t call MB a leftist for all sorts of reasons, his position on “conceal and carry” (he’s for it) being just one of those. You make up your definition and apply your own labels. If you’re in favor of conceal and carry, that position seriously damages your leftist credentials.
Oh, and in case you were wondering…I became very anti-gun after my best friend Rick was murdered with one. Unfortunately, my son was killed a few years after that in a similar incident, and I’ve had students killed over the years in gun violence. I haven’t owned or touched a gun for many years (and I’ll bet I’m still more proficient with them than most people).
very well said.
…colleagues and friends killed because they weren’t armed, as I have, you’d be less forgiving on the other side. (Aside: I am truly sorry that you lost kin and others close to you because of violence. Those of us who have had it happen know too well the special awfulness of the feelings that accompany such occurrences.)
As for who is or is not a leftist, a lot of people have tried to define themselves into that category while defining others out of it. For instance, American Maoists did that in the ’70s, excluding gays per se no matter their political views on any other subject. SDS and various socialist groups splintered over such definitional disputes, each of them claiming, like religious cults, to be the only true progressives.
Engage in that kind of divisiveness, if you like, sir, instead of merely making the arguments against particular positions. Just know that there’ll always be somebody out there willing to apply it to you, whether it’s your specific view about what should be done in Iraq, your view of free/fair trade, your attitude toward indigenous rights, or what kind of car you drive.
I’ve posted statistics, links. I think I made a pretty solid case.
You have posted your opinion. Let’s see some statistics–not anecdotes of personal experience, but valid statistics–supporting YOUR position.
And no, the stats CAN’T come from the NRA if you want to claim to be a “leftist” with a straight face.
wha?
being a “leftist” has nothing to do with “litmus tests”.
A leftist, roughly, is someone who believes that greater good and happiness and opportunities lie in collective action. The insistance that every individual be heavily armed, preferably with a concealable handgun, is most definitely NOT a “leftist” position. It’s a rightist, libertarian position.
Now, no one is perfectly leftist, rightist or whatever, and we’re all some combination of different beliefs or positions. By bringing up “litmus tests”, you’re once again confusing party with political beliefs. Political parties are merely machines, big giant robots that can be taken over by whomever. The party of Lincoln, after all, is now overrun by racists.
BC is right … being pro-handgun is definitely NOT a leftist position.
Mr. Curmudgeon. Perhaps you are unaware that the position of leftists and large numbers of feminists during the time I came of political age. You think SDS or AIM (not to mention the Black Panthers) opposed gun ownership? For those of us on the left, having a gun was not merely protection against right-wingers and rapists but against cops kicking down doors in the middle of the night.
Your selective quotations of my position in this matter do you no credit, sir.
I take a stand on gun control that I am fully aware – as I said in that post – makes me enemies on both sides of the debate.
But, to clear up matters for those who may not have read what I wrote:
I believe in licensing gun owners, I believe in registering all guns, I believe in proficiency/safety tests for all would-be gun purchasers, I believe in real background checks – the kind that would have stopped Cho from getting his pistols legally.
But, no, I do not believe in banning guns.
Yeah, and the latest Black Panther is when, again?
Oh right, they all got shot or sent to prison.
Yeah, that’s a real good selling point for arming yourself.
You favor conceal and carry. You don’t want it to be hard to carry a concealed weapon. That’s a pro-criminal, pro-gun position that would embarrass anybody who was genuinely progressive.
You don’t seem to embarrass easily, though.
And guess what? You can take the extraordinary case of a person who is known to be mentally ill–Cho–and cite it as support for YOUR position. But most handgun violence is NOT done by mentally ill people nor anybody who would be excluded from gun ownership by YOUR criteria.
Maybe you’re the one who needs to do some research? Naw, couldn’t be. Frontpagers at Daily Kos are omniscient, ja?
…for someone who has been thoroughly background-checked, who is licensed and fingerprinted, whose gun is registered and who has had proficiency tests to carry a concealed weapon.
You want to see somebody who has no sense of self-embarrassment, take a look in the mirror. The vast amount of gun violence in America is carried out by people who obtained their firearms illegally. Care to tell me what percentage of the hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. who have concealed carry permits that commit crimes? Minuscule.
Yes, many Black Panthers were killed (in some cases murdered) by the police or because of the FBI’s Cointelpro program. But guess why they armed themselves in the first place: police were assaulting and killing blacks already, typically with impunity. A good leftist/progressive ought to remember that. (For the record, I am not an apologist for some vile acts by few Panthers.)
What’s your prescription? A ban? Fine. You figure a way to get all the guns out of criminal hands and you guarantee that some future version of the American Gestapo or some white supremacist won’t come knocking at my door at 4 a.m., and I will give up my guns. In the meantime, spare me the ahistorical crap about the proper leftist/progressive view on gun ownership, something you obviously know less than half a squat about.
After 9/11, Bush got people to stop thinking and start doing exactly what they are told by making them afraid.
You’re trying to do the same thing. Sorry, doesn’t work with me.
Fearmongering statement #1: The government is coming to get you (why does the quote below read exactly like something from a white supremacist militia?)
Fearmongering statement #2: Guns are all that stand between us and tyranny.
Whenever someone wants me to shut down my thinking, they try to scare me. Fear is the most powerful human emotion. Be afraid…be very afraid…only a gun can protect you.
Well, if you need protection so badly, why not endorse people carrying concealed automatic weapons? I mean, the bad guys aren’t gonna fuck with you if you’ve got a machine gun, right? Or what about hand grenades? You don’t even have to aim. Sure, there’ll be some collateral damage, but you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs.
I already pointed out–guess you didn’t read it–that guns can’t protect you. If you are faced with an armed criminal, chances are, he’s already got his gun in his hand and pointed at you. Unless you’re Doc Holliday, you’re not going to pull out your sidearm and shoot the bad guy. You’ve been watching too many “Dirty Harry” and Wild West movies. It just doesn’t work that way.
All the statistics about people using concealed weapons to defend themselves come from…the NRA. Not exactly an organization that a “good leftist” would want to cite in support of his positions, eh?
As for your example of the Black Panthers: I’d stop using that if I were you. The Black Panthers got guns and swaggered around as if they were big, tough men (unlike that wimpy Dr. King, with his nonviolent resistance)–and they got themselves shot or sent to prison. Know why? Because no matter how many guns you have, the government always has more, bigger guns, and in the hands of full-time professionals who know how to use them.
I have no plans to confiscate anyone’s guns. I do, however, have plans to stop the sale of handguns and to severely restrict the amount of ammunition that can be sold. This wouldn’t stop gun violence, but it might save hundreds, even thousands, of the 30,000 lives lost to gun violence each year.
If guns protect you, then why are U.S. soldiers in Iraq getting killed? I mean, they have guns–big ones–so they should be safe, right?
Oh, that’s right…the other guys have guns, too. Maybe we should work on breeding bulletproof soldiers? Or maybe that whole “if you’ve got a gun, you’re safe” line you are trying to sell is a gigantic crock of shit?
Western Europe and Japan have very strict gun control, and very low rates of firearms-related homicides. Yet somehow they’ve managed to avoid having jackbooted government thugs or “white supremacists” kick in their doors at 2 a.m. and steal their DVD players, etcetera. I wonder how those people managed to secure their civil liberties without a whole shitload of guns? Sure is curious. I mean, the governments of Europe and Japan have soldiers with guns–why haven’t they instituted fascist regimes? Maybe it’s because the culture of those countries is democratic, not fascist? You don’t have much faith in America, do you?
…didn’t exist. Black Panthers (and other blacks) weren’t murdered by the police. And white supremacists didn’t gun down Alan Berg in the driveway of the house where I used to live and send me death threats for having publicly suggested that they were his murderers.
As for Panther swagger, a few did. But, if I were like you, applying litmus tests as to who is and who is not a bona fide leftist or progressive, I would say that “they got themselves shot” pretty much closes the case on your credentials in that regard. Is that what happened to us AIM members and supporters, too? Sixty dead at Pine Ridge and the surroundings. Not a single investigation by that government you think would never jackboot its way through your door?
You don’t have to read NRA statistics to know that law-abiding people DO defend themselves with guns in the United States. Indeed, I am highly suspicious of the numbers that NRA backers use in their arguments, which is why I NEVER use them. However, you can read daily in one or more of America’s newspapers about a person, including an abused woman, who has protected him/herself with a gun from an attacker. It’s not pretty stuff, and I sympathize with the pain of anyone who has felt compelled to use a gun in self-defense. That’s not something you want to carry around with you for the rest of your life. But at least they have the rest of their life, or the life of the loved one they protected.
I am not saying, have never said, would never say that owning a gun makes you safe. It gives you an option you wouldn’t otherwise have had, which makes you safer but not invincible.
As for soldiers in the field, on those occasions when the U.S. is justified in sending them abroad – not the case in Iraq, as I am sure you and I both agree – would you say that sending them with or without guns is the best idea?
Western Europe and Japan have ALWAYS had low rates of homicide deaths. Long before they had strict firearms laws, the rate was low for both firearm- and non-firearm-related homicides. In the U.S. despite a 20-year-long period spreading of looser laws for concealed firearms has seen a steep drop-off in the homicide rate since 1980. It’s now 5.6-5.7 per 100,000; in 1980, it was 10.2 per 100,000.
Of course, that is too high. And there are things that can be done to help curb it, some of which, but not all, have to do with enhanced gun control. We probably even agree with what a lot of those are outside the gun arena.
if you’re gonna protect yourself from jackboots, your concealed, holstered, likely pinned-under-a-coat handgun will do you no good. It just won’t … it’s an expensive and deadly security blanket, that’s it. If you want to defend your home, you want a shotgun, not a damned handgun. IIRC, at Pine Ridge they used shotguns and rifles to defend themselves, not concealed handguns.
Anybody who wants a handgun should be required to be licensed and tested at least as much as a truck driver who drives hazardous waste. It amazes me that we don’t do that very thing that we demand of drivers … testing, demonstration of proficiency and rigid licensing.
…Wounded Knee, too. But as I have said repeatedly for several years, I have no problems with vigorous licensing, registering and profiency/safety testing and background checks for anybody who owns a handgun.
still, the point is that all of the examples you cite are leftists who gave up on politics, people who’d declared the system broken, beyond politics, into full-fledged conflict. Maybe that’s where we are, but a concealed weapon isn’t the solution. Most people, confronted by a threat, bodies awash in adrenaline, will freeze or flee as likely as they’ll fight, and people can only use a weapon as inaccurate as a handgun with a lot of training.
Most people can’t handle the responsibility. Oh, and there is the added dimension of police bursting in on a scene and taking out the people defending themselves as well as the attacker.
Now, I might agree w/ the AIM members or Black Panthers that this polity is broken, and that powerless people should arm themselves, but politically it’s not a leftist position, and certainly not a position that supports a long-term solution to the rot in our society.
I’m not an “alleged lefty”, I’m a Socialist. Your choice of language–using “lefty” as if it’s an insult–is most revealing.
The lefties were wrong then. They’re correct now, when they say that the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is very small, indeed. That’s because the craven Democrats have allowed the Republicans to move the political center rightwards for 25 years.
Despite my reservations, I voted for Bill Clinton for President twice, and for Al Gore in 2000.
As for the 8 years of prosperity, it was shared very unequally under Clinton. The gap between rich and poor increased more under Clinton than it did under Reagan. The economy grew, but the tax burden was shifted to the working class.
Clinton also gave us NAFTA, which has absolutely devastated highly-paid unionized jobs in Michigan and Ohio. Not exactly something to be proud of.
All genuine lefties and good eggs. Are any of the hearings on gun control or abortion rights? Because that’s the subject of this diary. You’re diverting it into other areas. I didn’t say that the Democrats didn’t hold these hearings. The issues here are GUN CONTROL and ABORTION.
There will be no progress on gun control at all. The Democrats have effectively ceded the debate to the right wing. That “keep our powder dry” argument is what got us the 5-4 decision on “partial birth abortion”. Democrats didn’t stand together to support a filibuster on Samuel Alito, who cast the deciding vote that now makes it very likely that millions of women across America will be denied the right to control their own body. But…can’t fight the Republicans at this point…wouldn’t be prudent.
To quote Creedence Clearwater Revival: Some day never comes.
I don’t appeal to Republicans because I assume they’re a lost cause on gun control. I THOUGHT Democrats were the “progressive” party to whom I could look for help.
Thank you for the lovely suggestions for future diaries. I may write about those organisations in future, as I’m well aware of (and involved with) their work–but again, you are trying to re-direct my diary away from the timidity and cowardice of the so-called “Democratic leadership” when confronted with two MAJOR issues: gun control and abortion.
Artful dodging, indeed, Alice. But all your opponents are full of straw.
Do you actually care about gun safety? Why not blog in support of Carolyn Maloney or Jim Moran?
I’m sorry, Alice, I missed the memo where you gained the power to direct people to write diaries.
If you’re so interested in those two folks, YOU write the diary about them.
Wait, I can see that diary already…it’s a “The Democrats might be bad but the Republicans are worse diary so quit yer bitchcin'” diary, isn’t it?
Yeah, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.
on my personal blog, GOTV, I have blogged in support of Moran and his effort to block export of .50 caliber rifle.
Democrats aren’t spineless on this one, they are just plain wrong. In 2006 in the Democratic primary the alleged progressive candidate was Jim Webb, notorious for his concealed carry license. I voted for Miller in the primary. I lost, so I supported Webb. I don’t like him, but what choice did I have.
If those of us who support gun safety keep blogging about the facts, rather than rant against those who disagree we may or may not make progress.
Booman, want to protect yourself? Get a cell phone and work with your neighbors. If some idiot idiovich is hiding the in the trunk of a blue caprice, riding around the beltway and shooting people, you are not going to be able to shoot your way out of the situation. Believe me, I understand how it feels to live in a dangerous neighborhood, I’ve had that experience many times. But guns are not the answer.
Good advice, Alice. Don’t out-shoot them, out-think them.
As far as the Moran v. Webb contest to which yuou refer…Virginia is a gun nut state. I favor federal legislation that would impose strict 50-state gun control to protect those of us who live in sane places from gun nuts who go to places like Virginia and stock up on armaments.
Yes, it sucks that so many DINOs like Webb (who “used to be” a Republican, cough cough) got shoved down our throats in the latest elections, Alice. If I’d been in your position, I guess I would have gritted my teeth and voted for Webb, on the slender hope that he’s appreciably better than the Republican candidate (the odious George Allen).
it was Miller who ran against Webb in the primary
Moran ran for reelection to Congress and he won by a landslide. Virginia’s Eighth Congressional District is pro gun safety. He is reintroducing his bill to ban export of the .50 caliber rifle, I am sure he would appreciate support.
I did not just vote for Webb, I actively campaigned for him in the general. Don’t see that I had much choice. Yesterday we say Leahy lead an examination of Gonzales, never would have happened without Democratic control of the Senate, only Webb could do that.
This is a very important issue to me, but before we can go to our leadership we need to do some education about the reality of violent crime.
I confess I don’t follow Virginia politics as closely as I should.
…I think your approach is right, Alice. Self-defense is more about being smart about where you walk, about looking out for others, about talking your way out of situations, about running away if possible. And nobody can protect herself against a determined sniper, nor, in most cases, the likes of troubled madmen of which Cho Seung-hui is the latest example.
Get a dog, get a Taser, try to stay out of perilous areas. Learn martial arts. Make sure you can run in the shoes you wear to work.
But there are situations, last resort situations – I have been in them, and I know others who have as well – where a gun is the only thing between you (or your loved ones) and the graveyard. This is not machismo talking, but reality.
As I have said elsewhere, I support stricter gun control. But banning means condemning people to victimization.
…on how many people have used concealed weapons to successfully defend themselves from criminals over the past 12 months?
I mean, statistics that DON’T come from the NRA?
Here’s what guns are really used for:
The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence
I do admire your ability to persevere in your position in the face of overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary, Meteor Blades (I notice you DON’T cite any statistics…good move, since they don’t favor your argument). I guess, like Bush, you’re not “reality based”.
…Brady Campaign statistics, if I were you. They play games with their numbers, too. (FTR, I supported the Brady legislation editorially in Colorado and California. I think waiting periods and background checks are essential.) But I find statistics – especially in this very contentious arena – very suspect (NRA’s or anybody else’s.)
But since you asked for some, how about these:
The Texas concealed-carry law passed in 1995. Since then, the murder rate and absolute number of murders have dropped: from 9.06 per 100,000 to 6.2 (1695 murders to 1407). The Florida concealed-carry law passed in 1987. The murder rate was 11.4 per 100,000 in ’87; in 2005, it was 4.9 (1371 vs. 883).
In both cases, the murder rate fell faster and farther than the national average did.
Now, does that mean the concealed-carry law caused or contributed to the drop in gun murders? No. That’s unproven. You’d have to do a difficult-to-control for study to make that case. But those statistics put the lie to the widely voiced notion that concealed-carry laws increase gun murders, something which many people are claiming all over wwwLand since the Blacksburg Massacre.
Three points:
So, in other words, your statistics don’t prove your point because they can’t. The drop in the murder rate is more likely associated with more effective anti-gang policing techniques, as well as the assault rifle ban that Mr. Clinton signed into law in 1994. That ban came from…drum roll, please…pressure applied by the Brady Campaign! You remember them, the liars who mislead the public the same as the NRA
The Brady Campaign people are good folks. The NRA executive board are scum.
…to show percentage decrease in gun murders are from this site and this one.
I am not saying, nor have I ever said – as will be shown by a reading of all I’ve written on this subject (including the FP post you selectively quoted from) – that concealed carry permits have decreased gun crime. What I have repeatedly said, and what these statistics show, is that wider distribution of concealed carry permits does not increase gun crime. Arguing that the extra permits have decreased crime and arguing that they have not increased crime (widely claimed by those who think the permits are a bad idea) are two different things.
The percentage of murders attributed to assault weapons over a seven-year period (1986-1992): 1,578. That’s 1% of the total murders in the United States for those years. So, while you can argue that an assault weapon ban is a good idea (a point of view I agree with), you can’t argue that the ban vastly decreased gun murders.
I am not making a broad-scale attack on the Brady Campaign, many of whose initiatives I have supported publicly and in print since before the organization adopted its current name.
However, it does play with statistics on occasion. For instance, in 2005, President Michael Barnes, who was still president of the organization then, claimed that gun accidents kill 12 children a day. The Centers for Disease Control put the total number of accidental firearms deaths in 2001 at 802, and 813 in 2002, 60 of them children under the age of 15 in the latter year.
I found a guy who supports you. He really helps your case a lot.
It’s Ted Nugent. That’s right…you and the Motor City Madman are simpatico on this one!
Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
Ted Nugent, a member of the NRA’s board of directors, agrees with you on concealed carry. There’s your ally.
I learn something new every day. Here’s what I learned from my participation in this diary and my research for it:
All of which flies in the face of everything I thought I knew before.
So I’m grateful to Meteor Blades for opening my eyes…and to Ted Nugent for giving me Cat Scratch Fever.
Well I don’t know where they come from
But they sure do come
I hope they comin’ for me
And I don’t know how they do it
But they sure do it good
I hope they doin’ it for free
They give me cat scratch fever
Cat scratch fever
You all have permission to do 5 minutes of “air guitar”.