Open Thread

17 Comments

1. 

   billjpa on September 15, 2007 at 7:39 pm

   then where?

   • 

     boran2 on September 15, 2007 at 8:02 pm

     Venezuela.

2. 

   Zandar1 on September 15, 2007 at 7:41 pm

   As I’ve said before, the drumbeat to hit Iran has been as loud or louder before, and no strikes have been made.

   On the other hand, Israel and Syria are practically at it already, and that upcoming March report timeframe would seem to be a perfect time for Bush to say “Well, we WOULD have made progress and I WOULD be bringing troops home, but Iran ruined it.  So we’re going to bomb the crap out of them.”

   Another six months of status quo disaster in Iraq, another six months to blame Ahmadinejad, another six months for the Serious Washington Types and the wingnuts to proclaim we should be turning Tehran into a glass parking lot.

   Maybe Bush is just playing chicken.  Maybe he’s serious.  Either way, the Democrats need to stop him now before it gets even worse…and as bad as things are now, if we go to war with Iran, all bets are off as to how bad the world gets.

   • 

     Dean Pajevic on September 15, 2007 at 7:46 pm

     Can Jim Webb trot out his Senate bill on Iran again?  (I think it got cast off several months ago.)

     • 

       idredit on September 15, 2007 at 9:04 pm

       Welcome back Susanhu. Hope all goes well.

       The Sunday Telegraph, UK seen in some circles as less than credible, nonetheless here’s their roll-out with pics graphs part of the sabre rattling;

       Bush setting America up for war with Iran

       Pentagon planners have developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran, amid growing fears among serving officers that diplomatic efforts to slow Iran’s nuclear weapons programme are doomed to fail.

       Pentagon and CIA officers say they believe that the White House has begun a carefully calibrated programme of escalation that could lead to a military showdown with Iran.

       Now it has emerged that Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, who has been pushing for a diplomatic solution, is prepared to settle her differences with Vice-President Dick Cheney and sanction military action.

       n a chilling scenario of how war might come, a senior intelligence officer warned that public denunciation of Iranian meddling in Iraq – arming and training militants – would lead to cross border raids on Iranian training camps and bomb factories.[.]Gen David Petraeus, Mr Bush’s senior Iraq commander, denounced the Iranian “proxy war” in Iraq last week as he built support in Washington for the US military surge in Baghdad.

       The US also announced the creation of a new base near the Iraqi border town of Badra, the first of what could be several locations to tackle the smuggling of weapons from Iran.A State Department source familiar with White House discussions said that Miss Rice, under pressure from senior counter-proliferation officials to acknowledge that military action may be necessary, is now working with Mr Cheney to find a way to reconcile their positions and present a united front to the President.

       The source said: “When you go down there and see the body language, you can see that Cheney is still The Man. Condi pushed for diplomacy but she is no dove. If it becomes necessary she will be on board..[.]Miss Rice’s bottom line is that if the administration is to go to war again it must build the case over a period of months and win sufficient support on Capitol Hill.

       The Sunday Telegraph has been..read the piece.

       And the Military?  A new Patriots’ movement afoot?  

       An Open Letter to the New Generation of Military Officers Serving and Protecting the Nation – Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col. USAF, ret.,

       “[]We see our government going down the wrong path, all too often ignoring military advice, and heading us toward great danger. And we look to you who still serve as the best hope for protecting our nation from disaster…

       [But] you know all this. I’m sure you also see the enormous danger in a possible attack on Iran , possibly with nuclear weapons. Such an event, seriously contemplated by the Cheney faction of the Bush administration, would make enemies of Russia and China and turn us into the number one rogue nation on earth. The effect on our long-term national security would be devastating.

       Some of us had hoped that the new Democratic Congress would end the occupation of Iraq and take firm steps to prevent an attack on Iran , perhaps by impeaching Bush and Cheney. These hopes have been dashed. The lily-livered Democrats have caved in, turning their backs on those few (like Congressman Jack Murtha) who understand the situation. Many of us have personally walked the halls of Congress, to no avail.

       This is where you come in.

       []Our oath of office is to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Might I suggest that this includes a rogue president and vice-president? Certainly we are bound to carry out the legal orders of our superiors. But the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which binds all of us enshrines the Nuremberg Principles which this country established after World War II (which you are too young to remember). One of those Nuremberg Principles says that we in the military have not only the right, but also the DUTY to refuse an illegal order. It was on this basis that we executed Nazi officers who were “only carrying out their orders.”

       [.]

       We overlook at our peril the defense pact within the SCO China Russia and Iran.

       • 

         dada on September 15, 2007 at 10:28 pm

         Very, very interesting idredit, esp. the second one, great find.

         Adm.Fallon, head of CENTCOM [and Betraeus’ boss] has been adamant about the Iranian affair, going as far, back in May, to proclaim that an attack on Iran “Will Not Happen on My Watch” , signaling …“his firm opposition to an attack on Iran and an apparent readiness to put his career on the line to prevent it.”

         He may well be headed for early retirement soon, but there seems to be an growing awareness of, and discontent with, BushCo&trade,’s Iran policies in the upper echelons of the military.

         If the opinions being expressed many retired high level officers are indicative of the disposition of the rank and file line officers and the Joint Chiefs, we could be witness to a very unusual event in the 213 year history of the US should BushCo™ order an attack.

         Fallon’s continued position at the head of CENTCOM, perhaps says something about who’s really pulling the strings.

         l still think the Madman Strategy is a pretty good bet. These clowns are just lame enough to try it…again.

         lTMF’sA

         

         • 

           stormkite on September 16, 2007 at 12:15 am

           That presumes that the madman strategy is a considered act.

           Given the current administration, it’s much more likely that he’s not acting.

           Or mad.

         • 

           idredit on September 16, 2007 at 2:42 pm

           we have a guy for president who, as Alan Greenspan noted, acts first without thinking of future consequences.

         • 

           dada on September 16, 2007 at 3:11 pm

           consequences are for little people. chimpy’s never had to face one and as such, has no concept of what you’re talking about.

           anyone who can mouth a talking point like “Return on Success” re: Iraq. with a straight face on national television, is definitely out of touch with reality. not to mention dismissive of what anyone else thinks.

           lTMF’sA

           

         • 

           stormkite on September 16, 2007 at 3:17 pm

           When your father is formerly POTUS and the uberspook, AND you’re on a Mission From God, consequences aren’t something you’ll ever have to think about.  There will be people to take care of those for you (or, worse to worse, take the bullet for you.)

           Consequences are for peasants.

         • 

           idredit on September 16, 2007 at 6:18 pm

           and late today this from his new french poodle

           France warning of war with Iran

           “French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner says the world should prepare for war over Iran’s nuclear programme.

           “We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war,” Mr Kouchner said in an interview on French TV and radio.

           Mr Kouchner said negotiations with Iran should continue “right to the end”, but an Iranian nuclear weapon would pose “a real danger for the whole world”.

           Very interesting statement;

           ‘negotiations..should continue ‘right to the end’

           sounds familiar…just before we drop the bombs?

           How’s is your duct tape, food, water and gasoline inventory/ or bike tires?  scrub gasoline, we maybe indoors for quite a spell.

         • 

           dada on September 16, 2007 at 7:25 pm

           appears the propaganda spin plans are proceeding right on schedule…per Cheney’s instructions

           …”Today I received a message from a friend who has excellent connections in Washington and whose information has often been prescient. According to this report, as in 2002, the rollout will start after Labor Day, with a big kickoff on September 11. My friend had spoken to someone in one of the leading
           neo-conservative institutions. He summarized what he was told this way:

           They [the source’s institution] have “instructions” (yes, that was the word used) from the Office of the Vice-President to roll out a campaign for war with Iran in the week after Labor Day; it will be coordinated with the American Enterprise Institute, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox, and the usual suspects. It will be heavy sustained assault on the airwaves, designed to knock public sentiment into a position from which a war can be maintained. Evidently they don’t think they’ll ever get majority support for this–they want something like 35-40 percent support, which in their book is “plenty.”

           […]

           informed comment

           bolding mine

           a redux of sept. 02…like andy card said then: ”From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.”

           looks like the msm buying it again. wonder if the public at large will think it’s “plenty”?

           lTMF’sA

           

3. 

   Dean Pajevic on September 15, 2007 at 7:44 pm

   Well, isn’t that just peachy.  And I’m glad they’ve got it all planned out so that there’s no need for a national, um, dialogue type thing.

   Cross-posted this over at No Quarter, Boo.  Always love to pass along interesting news from you.  

   P.S. Surgery postponed until mid-October. Long story involving vascular surgeon, dermatologist and rheumatologist.  Hanging in there.  It’s all to the good.

   (Seriously, I can’t begin to comprehend the blowback from hitting Iran.  It’s too much.  It’s fucking insane.)

   • 

     mythmother on September 15, 2007 at 9:02 pm

     Glad you are hanging in there susanhu. Nice to see you!

   • 

     ask on September 15, 2007 at 9:29 pm

     Hey susan,
     Come back soon and often 🙂
     Hope all is well!

4. 

   on September 15, 2007 at 9:12 pm

   The Guardian’s headline reads: “Proxy war could soon turn to direct conflict, analysts warn”.

   But if the US bombed Iran, it would still be a proxy war: the US would be acting as Israel’s proxy.

5. 

   keepinon on September 16, 2007 at 7:57 pm

   Absolute insanity.