Update [2007-11-15 0:39:38 by BooMan]: I jumped the gun on this. The final vote tally is here. Sestak voted for the bill. I retract my comment about him.
Bruce Baird WA-03, John Barrow GA-12, Dennis Kucinich OH-10, Joe Sestak PA-07, and Gene Taylor MS-04. Those are the five Democrats that just voted against the latest Iraq Supplemental Bill. The bill is essentially toothless, but not without merit.
The spending bill does not preclude the president from spending money to extend the war, but it does make it clear that the money is to be used to “plan and execute a safe and orderly redeployment of [troops] from Iraq.”
It allows Bush to use troops after Dec. 15, 2008, to protect the U.S. embassy and bases in Iraq, train the Iraqi Security Forces and engage in counterterrorism operations.
The bill makes it clear that Congress wants to end the war as “safely and quickly as possible.” It also prohibits the U.S. government from subjecting people in its custody to torture or treatment not authorized by the U.S. Army Field Manual.
“We all view this as a significant statement, a turning point,” Rep. James McGovern (D-Mass.) said. “This is the beginning of the end of the war in Iraq.”
The president is going to veto it anyway.
“Once again, the Democratic leadership is starting this debate with a flawed strategy, including a withdrawal date for Iraq, despite the gains our military has made over the past year, despite having dozens of similar votes in the past that have failed, and despite their pledge to support the troops,” White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters. “And once again, they plan to send the president a bill that they know he will veto. This is for political posturing and to appease radical groups.”
The Democrats dropped any hard withdrawal date, instead opting for goals. It’s a concession without much of a point, as not a single Republican voted for it…not even Republicans like Walter Jones, Bob Iglis, and Wayne Gilchrist, who have voted for a more restrictive bills or amendments in the past.
I’m sure Kucinich voted against it because it lacks a hard withdrawal date. Baird seems to think the surge is working. Taylor and Barrow are hard-core Blue Dogs…essentially wingnuts, when it comes down to it. Joe Sestak? Who knows? He’s quickly losing the trust of the people that helped him win elective office. Perhaps he thinks the surge is working, as well.
Apparently, the leadership convinced progressives to go along with this charade vote with a promise that the Senate will force the Republicans to carry out a real filibuster. Grab your popcorn.
so lets see. The 5 pieces of shit voted against this lousy watered down bill. And, pelosi and that fucker emanuel have pushed back the contempt bill to at least december. So i guess we can add this to the growing number of failures that are called the dem party!
At the rate they appear to compiling their failures, they will have locked up the election for the gop before the primaries! It won’t even make a difference who the goopers chose!
It is wonderful.
and people will vote for Republicans for what reason?
For all the percieved lack of strength and false promises that the media will pound into their fucking mush for brains.All the dems are doing is feeding the goopers a litany of failures in congress and those failures will come back to bite them in their asses-big time. Instead of taking a unified stand in congress with regard to every single major cause that the lemmings care about, all they continue to see is the innability of the dems to clearly show them that they are the party that supports their positions.
Sure, there is no logical reason for people to vote against their needs but that ain’t the way people vote. They vote based on perception and you can bet the house that the goopers will offer them the party that “can do”!
Do you think that the lemmings realize for one second that the real reason that violence is reported down in Baghdad is that there has been a methodical removal of the sunis from the city and that the ethnically cleansed neighborhoods pose any threat to their own shiite neighbors?
Do you think that for one second that they aren’t buying into the bullshit that the economy is going great guns even though they are working longer hours and paying more wherever they go?
Do you believe that the fools aren’t accepting the fraud that Iran can be attacked militarily and that once they are attacked, akmadingaling won’t jump on his camel and leave town and all will be well?
It is a fucking horror show mr B and what are dems doing about it?
Holding hearings. voting to “support the troops”. offering a divided party for all to see.
Hows that for starters. Its killing me and I threaten to bolt but I am still hanging in- however, I’m one of those dumb believers.
There is some truth in what you say, bill.
But there is a reason that the Dems are doing what they’re doing.
Let’s just stop the clock right now and look at the situation.
Every metric that we can use to prognosticate the elections shows not just an advantage to the Democrats, but a whopping advantage.
Out third place presidential candidate beats their first place candidate. Their congresspeople are retiring, ours are not. People have a heavy bias in favor a generic Democrat over a generic Republican.
We’re winning more of the growing Hispanic vote and the youth vote is overwhelming Democratic.
Wall Street is betting on the Dems. The Chamber of Commerce is betting on the Dems.
The Republicans can’t recruit anyone to run. They have no money to offer to those they do recruit.
All of this is not an accident. It’s a direct result of the way the Dems have played out the last year.
Is it cynical? Yes.
Is it frustrating? Yes.
Is it immoral? Yes.
But it’s working.
And it is precisely the fact that it is working, in concert with the Republicans refusal to act to save themselves, that has led us to this point.
After all, at any time a chunk of Republicans could have said, “Impeachment is not off the table” or “Yeah, let’s end this war right now.”
The Dems had no objection to that and offered them the opportunity. They turned it down.
Without any bipartisan cover, the Dems could only do so much without blowing the whole town up. And why blow the whole town up when the money is pouring in, the love in pouring in, and the polls are rolling in?
If you think the Democrats are going to be the ones blamed for this mess, you’re crazy. They made damn sure not to take any responsibility for the war, or for the economy.
And, you know what else? People don’t feel scared anymore, they feel poor. That’s why Rudy Guiliani or John McCain are not going to be able to go back to the well one more time and argue that we have to be tough on the terrorists. No one gives a crap about terrorism anymore. They want to be able to buy a tank of gas or some heating oil without taking out a loan.
I’m as disgusted as anyone. But the idea that the Dems will actually pay for their spinelessness seems most unlikely. At least, they won’t pay at the ballot box. Within the party itself? Things are already moving.
see, this is the reason for my respect for you.As I said earlier, I feel like one of those inflateable dolls that one can knock down and it pops right back up. I keep wondering just when it will go down and not pop back up.
What is driving my angst at this moment is the simple fact that the fourth estate is being so manipulated that my concern is so heightened. I sit here and listen to Tom Haspel on nbc report out of Iraq that curfews are being reduced and weddings are taking place-blah blah and yet not one fucking peep regarding ethnic cleansing. I check the majors daily only to discover that reporting on Iraq is becoming almost non-existant. The I check out Iraq Today and discover the reports of the ongoing horrors! I follow the reporting out of Mcclatchy and read about the daiy horrors yet I know that the lemmings aren’t getting that. I know what they are getting. I lived in rural US for 15 years and know too well what those folks are getting.
Anyhow- Your mind is great. Thanks- got to get my 3 hours in. Again- tomorrow is another great day.
A sensible read on why getting out now makes sense:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IK14Ak01.html
Wouldn’t a better strategy be for the Dem to oppose the U.N mandate that authorized the invasion’s renewal in Dec. 2007?
Sestak has been something of a disappointment. He’s better than Curt Weldon, but he’s not on strong on Iraq as his fellow suburban Philly representative (Patrick Murphy).
Can someone explain to me why this isn’t a good thing? Pelosi et al. have managed to corral our caucus into supporting a bill that includes language about bringing our troops home. This is a bill that 75% of the country can support. The Senate has promised to force the Republicans to really filibuster and show how weak their support for our troops really is.
My guess is that the Senate Republicans will cave and force Bush to take out his veto pen again. We don’t have the votes to override a veto, so the game will continue. I certainly hope that our leaders will be more successful in blaming Bush this time and we can continue to send him bills supporting the troops, ending the war, and provoking his veto.
tis a slippery slope we tread…. ; )
one step at a time…
The Senate Dems are going to “force” a real fillibuster? I think I’ll wait a bit before popping any corn.
I’m with you Kahli..I am not going to hold my breath believing the dems in the Senate are actually going to show a bit of spine and do the right thing here. We’ll see how much leadership Obama or Clinton show on this won’t we.
Yes, we will.