If I had to define ‘evil’, I’d say it is anything that is hostile to life. Not indifferent. Hostile.
Hurricane Katrina didn’t care whom it drowned. Jeffrey Dahmer took pleasure in taking life. Katrina wasn’t evil. Jeffrey Dahmner was evil.
It seems like a constant refrain, but actually it is just a recurring theme: conservatives accusing progressives of an inability to recognize and confront evil. Today, it is Michael Goodwin’s turn:
Whew, that was a close one. We suffered a big attack and were in mortal danger for a while, but we are safe now. Thank God, the war on terror is over. There are no Islamic extremists. Homeland security is not an issue. The only problem in Iraq is how to get out.
Wait, this is news to you? Then you didn’t watch the Democratic debate Thursday.
Part of the problem is definitional…part of it is perspective. From my point of view, the decision to invade Iraq showed an indifference to the sanctity of life so high, that it crossed over my definitional divide and reached a level that can only be called ‘evil’. This would be more generally acknowledged if the war had not been sold as an absolutely necessary measure needed to prevent even larger loss of life. We now know that there were no weapons of mass destruction and no operational cooperation between the government of Iraq and al-Qaeda. If we are honest, we’ll admit that Saddam Hussein kept religious radicals under surveillance and allowed them little freedom of movement…no training camps, no access to weapons, no access to loose nuclear materials. There is no sense in which it can be accurately argued that the invasion of Iraq saved lives. It has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. And honest intelligence officers predicted as much before the invasion.
Once the Pandora’s Box was opened, a whole lot of evil boiled to the surface in Iraq. It was easy to blame Saddam Hussein for his oppression. Few considered the types of evil that his oppression suppressed. It’s true that the situation in Iraq has left us vulnerable to retaliation. There are a lot of angry people that want revenge. We already knew prior to the invasion, through 9/11, that we had made enemies. But now, whether we stay in Iraq or go, we have a higher level of threat. Who’s fault is that? Well…it’s not our fault that there are bad people in the world, but who else are you going to blame for this situation?
Yet, even if our country has made some very bad mistakes, we don’t forfeit our right to defend ourselves. We just need to be clear-headed. We’ve invited attacks. Goodwin seems to miss this:
Consider that what was once called a generational war against an existential threat is now by unanimous consent of the candidates only a misguided Republican war in Iraq that must be ended immediately. What was once a bipartisan concern about the new phenomenon of lethal nonstate actors such as Al Qaeda has been reduced to denunciations of waterboarding and attacks on the Patriot Act.
Bush and Rummy and Cheney called it a ‘generational war against an existential threat’ but it wasn’t anything of the kind. They then went about doing everything they could to make sure that it was a ‘generational war against an existential threat’. Namely, they lied to the world about the intelligence and invaded a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, and which could have actually been counted on to be a passive ally in crushing jihadists. They then added to the problem by making the decision to dismantle the only organization (the Iraqi army) that could keep law and order and then setting up shop as an occupation force. Even war architects like Richard Perle have expressed astonishment at those decisions.
The war in Iraq has really become nothing more than a ‘Republican war in Iraq that must be ended immediately’. It might have been that from its inception. After all, as early as the spring of 2002 Karl Rove was advising the Republicans to use warmongering as a wedge device in the midterm elections. The Democrats were never given a good faith opportunity to be equal partners in a national project of urgent national security. In part, this is because the argument for war was notably dishonest and unsupportable. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t supported. It has been said that Howard Dean was the only Democrat to get it right on the war because he was the only Democrat that never received a CIA briefing on the intelligence. The Bush administration had their hands full stovepiping forged Italian documents…they didn’t have time to reach out to the Democrats. They owned the war before it started and they still own it. They own it more than ever, because they have prevented Congress from passing any laws that might actually convert the mission to something that has bipartisan support.
‘What was once a bipartisan concern about the new phenomenon of lethal nonstate actors such as Al Qaeda has been reduced to denunciations of waterboarding and attacks on the Patriot Act’ because Iraq had nothing to do with nonstate actors, and because foreign policy has not been conducted in a bipartisan manner.
Many Democrats tried to be bipartisan. Some of them are now in the private sector. Others are members of the party ‘Connecticut for Lieberman’. The rest are no longer viable candidates for higher office (see Joe Biden).
None of which means that Democrats can’t recognize evil, or that Democrats are not aware that we have a threat of terrorism. In fact, most Democrats recognize that the situation in Pakistan represents a real threat. Pakistan is everything that Iraq was not. They harbor terrorists, they have nuclear weapons, they have proliferated nuclear technology, they have an ongoing relationship with the Taliban and al-Qaeda, and the country is unstable. If events unfold the wrong way a nuclear war with India could become a reality. Or…jihadists could steal some nuclear materials. Or…jihadists could take over the government. And we have all our soldiers bogged down in Iraq.
If you needed a reason to get out of Iraq, you could hardly ask for a better one. What could be more evil than nuclear war?
Here is what conservatives did wrong. They bought into the idea that 19 hijackers and some co-conspirators represented an existential threat. They didn’t. They represented a threat. A big threat. The only way they could elevate themselves to the level of an existential threat was through Pakistan and their weapons.
Now we are faced with that dilemma and we are not situated to deal with it.
There are two things conservatives need to internalize.
First, our president is an idiot and his national security team is filled with delusional ideologues. Virtually nothing they say is true or accurate.
Second, the reason we were attacked on 9/11 was because our our policies towards Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Egypt. It was not about Islam. And people want to attack us now even more than before…for basically the same reasons.
We must reconsider our foreign policy because it is too expensive and it makes our citizens unsafe.
Ron Paul can explain the basics to you. He has the basics right.
In your otherwise well written post,I have to take exception to one theme on 911.As a scientist and metallurgist of long standing, I have found the evidence uncovered by Professors Steven Jones(Brigham
Young) and Professor Biederman along with numerous other aerospace Engineers and Architects, irrefutable that the Towers were demolished with explosives and COULD NOT HAVE COLLAPSED BY THE PLANE’S IMPACT ALONE.
That position makes my definition of evil radically different from yours.I respect your position but want to make it clear that it flows from your scientific ignorance.If you can read up on the fine articles in the Journal of 911 studies by highly regarded scientists you will see what I mean.
Sorry, no go.
Steven Jones managed to tarnish his scientific reputation pretty thoroughly with his contribution to “cold-fusion” (much less than Pons and Fleishmann, but still); and structural engineering is NOT his field of expertise.
It wasn’t the plane’s impact. It was the heat from the burning fuel. And “aerospace” engineers are not the experts in this; that would be “structural engineers”. Architects know squat about stress tensors, or about buckling under load, or about modulus of elasticity as a function of temperature.
Are you one of those nutcases that argued ad infinitum that the Murrah building bombing couldn’t have been caused by a single truck-bomb? With lots of amateur misinterpretation of every possible bit of scientific evidence along the way? Because the “9/11 inside job” argument sure sounds like the same-old same-old from back then.
What this has to do with a definition of evil, I don’t know, and you don’t say with any clarity. Oh well.
It has nothing to do with anything. The towers collapsed from design flaw.
Who hijacked the planes, who trained them, who was really paying for that training….those are all open questions no matter what we’ve been told by way of (not much) explanation. But the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 doesn’t require more information. It has been explained thoroughly.
Collapse theorists and Pentagon missile theorists are the worst kind…because they undermine their own argument needlessly, and without proof.
Could you please explain what design flaw you speak of?
The NIST engineers and the teams at MIT,Northwestern and Purdue did not uncover any design flaws.
If such design flaws were present, the owners of the WTC would have been entitled to collect billions more in punitive damages from the architects and the structural engineers.
The proof from Professor Jones and Professor Biederman’s metallurgical work involves finding very high concentrations of sulfur,and associade increases in manganese, copper and zinc in steel droplets that were recovered near the WTC Towers.Those tell tale increases in these critical elements point unequivocally to the use of Thermates to compromise the core columns’ integrity.
The presence of molten steel which has been verified by video and eyewitness evidence further points to the certainty that demolition by explosives was the proximate cause of the collapse.
Lastly, even NIST which was tasked with explaining how the Towers collapsed, now says it is unable to say how they came down.
So, it is not a done deal yet.
Steven Jones’ work was purely metallurgical and it proved that Thermates were used at the WTC site on 9/11.He did not need to be a structural engineer to show that steel was melted away from the impact area of the planes.
His work on cold fusion was to submit a proposal, which, by the rveiws it recievd from other peers was a great improvement over Fleischman and Pons.
If you know anything about the heat from the fuel and its effect on the steel, you will know that the steel could not have collapsed from that heat.The loss of strength from the heat from the fuel would have been minimal.
Not to mention that molten steel was observed at the site.
Sorry, no go for you.
As far as evil is concerned, I made it clear that because I view the collapse of the Towers from a different perspective and it leads me to believe that the perps were not what we have been led to believe, it materially alters our perceptions.
In AE911truth.org you will find contributions by Boeing engineers who show that the planes which impacted the Towers were flying at well over 500 MPH at an altitude of 1000 ft.That, according to the engineers would have caused the planes to disintegrate.That is why I alluded to the aerospace engineers input.
As far as stress tensors and effect of temperature on modulus goes, a metallurgist is well versed in those and Professor Jones and even more, Professor Biederman at Worcester Poly are certainly capable of dealing with those subjects.
FYI, in the uncontrolled environment of the Towers, one sees the flames with temperatues not exceeding 1500F and to create any kind of loss of strength, not only do9es the heat have to diffuse globally through the steel structure but carbon has to diffuse to create the loss of strength you say caused the structure to collapse.And, if (it seems that is a big if) you understand anuthing about solid state diffusion such a diffusion of carbon is likely to take many hours.Clearly that time was not available.
I suggest a complete reading of Professor Jones and Professor Biederman’s papers would do some good .
FWIW, I have read Prof. Jones work. When I say it was a structural flaw, I don’t really mean that there was anything wrong with how it was built or designed. I mean that it was uniquely vulnerable to collapse in a way that, say, the Empire State Building is not. That is due to the way they hung the floors, enabling ungodly amounts of office space.
The floors only needed to detach from the outer walls in order to create a pancake effect.
Basically, you had an enormous load on top of the damaged areas, pushing down hard…so any weakness in the center could pull the walls in from the connections to the perimeter. It could have been weakened steel, it could have been internal column deterioration over time. Whatever actually caused it, the result was easy to see. One side was pulled in, followed by the collapse of the weakened area, followed by a pancake effect that is easy to explain.
In support of this, the building that collapsed first was not the first one struck, but the one struck lower down (thus, with a higher load above the damaged area).
Other buildings would not have collapsed because the floors would not have pulled the perimeter in with them.
The NIST team based its collapse on the pancake idea that you allude to.That pancaking model required NIST to remve nearly 75% of the core columns befor eanythingb resembling panckaing could be made tom occur on the computer.
Mr.Kevin Ryan, who was tasked by NIST to build a scale model of the Towers and simulate the pancake collapse says in an article in the Journal of 911 Studies that the model refused to collapse no matter how many core columns were removed, how accurately the model was heated and how much impact load simulating the planes was directed at them.
you’re quoting a guy from the company that certified the steel? His only concern is to correct any perception that he certified substandard steel…which could be one partial explanation for greater steel weakness than expected.
This isn’t that complicated, actually.
We may never be certain what caused one whole floor to collapse in WTC1 and a half a floor to collapse in WTC2, but we know they did, and the general collapse was inevitable at that point.
Demolition is an impossible scenario for too many reasons to list.
WTC7, however, I have no idea about. It could have been quickly demoed, since it was evacuated, but I really doubt it. If I had to guess, it must have suffered some severe structural damage from the collapse of the Twin Towers. Perhaps, it was similar to a building that is weakened by earthquake, and then suffers a collapse as stress factors expand within the building over time.
Kevin Ryn was from Underwrites Labs, a well known standards lab in existence for over one hundred years.
What greater weakness in steel are you alluding to?
Is it Tensile Strength, Yield Strength or Shear Strength?
If Demolition is an impossibility, why was high sulfur which is evidence for Thermates found in the WTC Towers?
What cause the melting of the steel, at a location far away from the plane’s impact zone?
Are you aware that John Skilling, the original structural designer of the Towers has stated the Towers were designed to withstand and survive not just one but multiple hits from Boeing 707s which were the largest planes built at the time the Towers were constructed?
Even the collapse of one floor would not have caused the collapse of the entire structure and this is what the NIST model showed and so it was abandoned.
As for WTC 7 it is the dog that didn’t bark in the entire sordid tale of the collapse of the Towers.
EVIL?
Here are a few examples of evil:
Vetoing SCHIP
Destroying New Orleans
Creating thousands of Homeless Veterans
Killing Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis
The worlds behavior re DARFUR
The destruction of the institutions created to protect the US Citizenry from products that can and will hurt
And everyone can add to this list! EVERYONE!
These define EVIL – now, shall we name the vreators of EVIL?
Permit me to add to your list.
Killing 3000 innocents in a staged event to create a phony War on Terror.
Using that phony pretext to launch a war against a people who had nothing to do with even that phony event.
Killing nearly a million civilians in that war.
Continuing that madness to lay the groundwork for another war against another nation that has done nothing to provke the aggression.
Kidnapping and torturing innocent people worldwide.
And on and on and on.
You could say we have met the Nazis, and the Nazis are us.
As I read today about US efforts to arm tribes in Pakistan to fight Al Qaeda, I wondered how we can be so stupid. Pretty soon we will have armed everybody and will never know who is going to turn on whom. We will never know when the arms will be used against us. Why do we constantly foment conflict instead of addressing its root causes? Because somebody is making tons of money — and that, I believe, is evil.
The only thing that makes sense is that we want conflict. If there is anything the last six years have taught us, Kahli, it is that perpetual conflict has significant advantages to the friends of those in power and is politically advantageous to the ruling parties. It has become their drug of choice. It is too attractive to resist. And it appeals to the baser instincts of a lot of Americans.
“Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”
Jonah Goldberg’s paraphrasing of Michael Ledeen’s comments summarized it quite nicely and is probably highly representative of the opinions of a huge number of Americans. We are, in large part, a nation run by warmongers. And the sheeple are often very ignorant and gullible. A very dangerous combination.
“If I had to define ‘evil’, I’d say it is anything that is hostile to life. Not indifferent. Hostile.
Hurricane Katrina didn’t care whom it drowned. Jeffrey Dahmer took pleasure in taking life. Katrina wasn’t evil. Jeffrey Dahmner was evil. “
Hurricane Katrina was not indifferent OR hostile. It was a storm, not a person. I would say that it is precisely the INDIFFERENCE to human life that makes the Occupation of Iraq ‘Evil’ and because of the predictability of the post-invasion occupation’s nature, the Invasion itself. The idea that the Bushies just didn’t plan on this going bad is one GIANT PIECE OF STINKING HORSHIT and to discuss things as if that and the many other ‘prep points’ are true is playing into the perpetuation of the Big Lie (‘you broke it you bought it’, ‘you use the army you have, not the one you want’, etc.).
The supposition that Indifference is exclusive of Evil is at the root of the ‘Good German’ self-defense stratgey Americans are employing to somehow divorce themselves from responsibility for what is going on.
well, that’s a definitional argument.
I acknowledge that you can be so indifferent as to be hostile. But, to me, true evil isn’t banal. That’s expanding the term to encompass everyone, which changes this into some Calvinist downer shit.
“MMmmmmm…. Calvinism… aghhlg-ghghghllagghll..” – Homer Simpson
I would define selfishness as the root of evil. The willingness to do more harm that good so long as the good goes to you and the harm to others.
The party which defined “Greed is Good” is now claiming to have a monopoly on Values and I find that very offensive. I am not a Christian but isn’t that one of the Seven Deadly Sins? I am a Values Voter and I vote my values before my self interests.
My values are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.